Insulting A Man Is A Crime?

[sbk]

Don't know about defamation made overseas but it is a criminal charge in Thailand and can result in possible two-year jail terms and fines of 200,000 baht.

[mrjohndub]

Defamation, my ass. This guy is a total crybaby. She stated her opinion, he stated his. They parted ways. Whoop-dee-doo.

If anyone should do something to make amends, it should be the cook/owner...and only if he wants to or cares about her repeat business.

I can't believe any of you posters even discussing the legalities of defamation. What did she do, take out an add in the local newspaper calling his restaurant and its service crap? She expressed her disappointment in front of her own coworkers, who were probably sympathetic to what bothered her in the first place.

This guy is an idiot and a wuss for getting police involved. Trying to get her arrested? Gimme a break. He should have to pay a modest fine to them (the cops) for wasting their time. Moreover, having the police come to her work...? That's pretty serious embarrassment for her. Even compelling them to come to her work merely for questioning is insulting, given the lack of seriousness of the supposed crime.

OP, I hope your entire staff takes your business elsewhere permanently, however inconvenient that may be.

Edited May 14, 2011 by mrjohndub

[Gaccha]

Slander is a crime in Thailand (not merely a tort).

The Truth is not a complete defence (unlike the UK).

Many a man has ended up arrested on arrival at the airport for saying things, in say, Switzerland, that resulted in a court action and a guilty verdict against him, without him even knowing.

Be cautious. Or is that cook-tious.

Telling the truth is not yet an adequate defence in the UK for libel as there is a draft bill seeking to amend this at the moment. Not sure about slander though.

Please provide a case or statute to back your opinion on this. I currently don't accept it.

[Gaccha]

Slander is a crime in Thailand (not merely a tort).

The Truth is not a complete defence (unlike the UK).

Many a man has ended up arrested on arrival at the airport for saying things, in say, Switzerland, that resulted in a court action and a guilty verdict against him, without him even knowing.

Be cautious. Or is that cook-tious.

And you have documentaion of these arrest.

I'm afraid so. There is currently a Swiss filmmaker who a decade after making a documentary that very briefly mentioned something to do with some businessman in Thailand, was arrested on arrival in Thailand for a family holiday. He is now enjoying the monkey house for a decade plus sentence. Remember, there is no suggestion what he said was not true.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Just curious, what about insulting the food ie. "this food is crap" and not making any comment about the cook or establishment. Would this be considered free speech or does "constructive" criticism against things fall under the same set of legal arguments.

How general critique and personal opinions fall under any such legal statute is beyond me.

We're in deep trouble if our everyday interactions are institutionally scrutinized.

Think too much.

Well said! Why am I crying? Just a pussy I guess.

[zzaa09]

Let me see if I understand this. A girl, a customer says "the service here is poor" & somehow that is an insult? I fail to see it.

Most that don't understand the deeper culture will fail to witness the truer conclusion.

It's neither political or legal - it's purely social and cultural.

Most here, responding, will attempt to tie a foreign attachment towards a deeper cultural misunderstanding.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Let me see if I understand this. A girl, a customer says "the service here is poor" & somehow that is an insult? I fail to see it.

Most that don't understand the deeper culture will fail to witness the truer conclusion.

It's neither political or legal - it's purely social and cultural.

Most here, responding, will attempt to tie a foreign attachment towards a deeper cultural misunderstanding.

It is not a case of misunderstanding, it is a case of sadness that people can be so self centered.

[letitbe]

Well you are not going to last long here im certain of that or if you do it will be with bitterness and contempt. If she really said F... off then that alone is enough here to get killed. A very stupid girl. When police arrived he should just have said sorry a misunderstanding and said something like girl was out of sorts. I know lots will say <deleted> she did nothing wrong. Wrong here it is very silly and dangerous to insult or dishonour anyone Thai.

You might say its two faced but ive leant who you can insult however mildly and who not and in most cases don't insult any Thia. Thais only know two ways mie penrie and gun out and shoot. My advice is dont bring your silly western notions here you will never never win. Of course the chef was being a total arse hole.

Edited May 16, 2011 by sbk
flame removed

[Chonburiram]

Roachie,

this sounds unbelievable, did you speak with [do you know] the owner?

Looks like the cook is bored about his workload...

[junkofdavid2]

Well, the cook was probably claiming some sort of loss of business under slander/defamation laws, but.......

After an argument like that I wouldn't eat there again because you never know what might end up in the soup.

I think you could count on Special Sauce at a minimum.

Brown sauce.

[Fookhaht]

"INSULTation" is not only easily elevated to illegal "defamation" in Thailand, but it can also get you killed much quicker than in the West. Be careful out there expat babes-in-the-woods!

[inthepink]

Slander is a crime in Thailand (not merely a tort).

The Truth is not a complete defence (unlike the UK).

Many a man has ended up arrested on arrival at the airport for saying things, in say, Switzerland, that resulted in a court action and a guilty verdict against him, without him even knowing.

Be cautious. Or is that cook-tious.

Telling the truth is not yet an adequate defence in the UK for libel as there is a draft bill seeking to amend this at the moment. Not sure about slander though.

Please provide a case or statute to back your opinion on this. I currently don't accept it.

It isn't my opinion, it's fact, so it's not open for you to accept or reject.

Read this article published in the Guardian on 15th March 2011:

http://www.guardian....bel-law-reforms

and pay particular attention to this part:

"The bill includes a new statutory defence of truth which will replace the current common law defence of justification. It also includes a statutory defence of honest opinion replacing the current common law defence of fair and honest comment."

If you want a case reference then look it up yourself. I'm not your research assistant.

Edited May 15, 2011 by inthepink

[user82374298374]

>I found out that one of the girls commented on the service of the restaurant, the guy reacted and she told him that 'his

>business will suffer if he continues like this'

In Asian cultures in general, oblique remarks such as this (assuming this is a literal translation of what she said) are invariably interpreted as threats - and since the instigator is Asian herself, I've no doubt at all that she meant it as such.

Yes, it's ridiculous by Western standards, but this isn't the West.  It was incredibly unwise of you to jump to the conclusion that the Bright Young Thing on your staff was in the right; now the local police will have you in their sights due to the loss of face caused by the insincere apology and gratuitous expletive, not to mention the disrespect for an elder in front of a lot of witnesses inside their police station, causing further loss of face for the police due to their failure to control the situation and assure a favorable outcome.

The cook and his extended family/tribe/clan will also have you, your business associates, the girl, and her family in their sights, due to the (from their perspective) outrageous loss of face caused by her behavior and defiance.

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk.  Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Understand something - people get killed, building get burnt down, etc. over stuff like this every day in Thailand.  And the enabling farang is going to be the primary designated hate object for all those people listed above who will believe that they have lost face as a result of your employee's irredentist behavior.

Edited May 15, 2011 by disambiguated

[Gaccha]

Slander is a crime in Thailand (not merely a tort).

The Truth is not a complete defence (unlike the UK).

Many a man has ended up arrested on arrival at the airport for saying things, in say, Switzerland, that resulted in a court action and a guilty verdict against him, without him even knowing.

Be cautious. Or is that cook-tious.

Telling the truth is not yet an adequate defence in the UK for libel as there is a draft bill seeking to amend this at the moment. Not sure about slander though.

Please provide a case or statute to back your opinion on this. I currently don't accept it.

It isn't my opinion, it's fact, so it's not open for you to accept or reject.

Read this article published in the Guardian on 15th March 2011:

http://www.guardian....bel-law-reforms

and pay particular attention to this part:

"The bill includes a new statutory defence of truth which will replace the current common law defence of justification. It also includes a statutory defence of honest opinion replacing the current common law defence of fair and honest comment."

If you want a case reference then look it up yourself. I'm not your research assistant.

Your emotional response is not needed.

Your first line indicates you are not a lawyer.

Writing "It isn't my opinion, it's fact, so it's not open for you to accept or reject" is plainly ridiculous.

I did not reveal initially that I am an English lawyer as there are consequences in revealing my position. (I am required to now state that my opinion on this matter should not be used for anything beyond party chit-chat and that legal advice should always be sought)

When I spoke of your "opinion", this is a common opener in legal argument. Legal argument is a special type of argument. It seeks various ways to form a 'legal opinion'. This discussion is on a point of law, simply saying it is a 'fact' simply begs the question, it is a recursive loop. The law itself decides what is a fact.

You must offer a case as some sort of precedence or a statute. The Guardian article said nothing in support of your opinion.

As every lawyer knows, every single time a journalist writes about a legal case they get it flatly wrong. The only exceptions are the ex-lawyers, such as Joshu Rozenberg.

Truth is a perfect defence.

[angiud]

Disambiguated says:

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk. Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Are you serious?

Edited May 15, 2011 by angiud

[Soutpeel]

Disambiguated says:

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk. Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Are you serious?

One sincerly hopes he is taking the p*ss..... ..if not .....very apparant who wears the trousers in the house....

[Xangsamhua]

Disambiguated says:

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk. Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Are you serious?

One sincerly hopes he is taking the p*ss..... ..if not .....very apparant who wears the trousers in the house....

I don't think he's taking the p*ss. He may be coming on a bit strong, but his advice to the OP to settle this matter in a face-saving way for the cook (who I assume is the owner) seems very wise to me. It's not a matter of "giving in", but simple avoidance of possible unpleasant consequences in the future, especially if the local police appear sympathetic to the cook/owner. And, as I said in an earlier post, a courteous apology can sometimes result in a generous response. This is Thailand.

[F1fanatic]

Having read about a Brit woman who was stabbed and then decapitated in Teneriffe after somehow annoying a nutter - I'm more determined than ever to never get involved in any sort of disagreement with a local!

The nutter came from Eastern Europe somewhere, but they don't have the same issue with 'loss of face' as here.

Loss of face is a serious issue and its definitely not worth doing anything that may possibly cause this to a local.

'Standing up for yourself' works well in the Western world, but here (unless you are v careful) it is considered an unforgivable insult. Don't forget that as a farang, you are unlikely to be considered a social superior.

[IMA_FARANG]

As other posters have pointed out...this is Thailand and not somewhere else. If you slander a person's character or reputation and damage his or her business in Thailand...even if what you say is true...the truth of what you say is NOT a valid defence under Thai law. Merely saying that in your opinion the person is a bad cook and a stupid person CAN be an offense under Thai law. Be careful, that's the way Thai law reads and you CAN be prosecuted for saying such a thing. I'm glad you got it settled...just let it go, because the cook had a legitimate case against you for insulting or slandering him under Thai law.

Just look at the "Lese majeste" laws in Thailand as another example. In England you wouldn't be charged for writing to a newspaper saying that you thought the English Queen was a fool. If you do that here with the Thai King as the subject, you can be charged with a crime and be put in jail.

Edited May 15, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[Soutpeel]

...just let it go, because the cook had a legitimate case against you for insulting or slandering him under Thai law.

He didnt have any case against the OP.....it was one of the OP's employees who hurt poor cookie wookies feelings, not the OP.....

[Soutpeel]

Just look at the "Lese majeste" laws in Thailand as another example. In England you wouldn't be charged for writing to a newspaper saying that you thought the English Queen was a fool. If you do that here with the Thai King as the subject, you can be charged with a crime and be put in jail.

From what I understand of the Thai Lese majeste laws., you could in fact be charged and jailed for insulting QE II as well in Thailand, as believe the law in Thailand applies to all "heads" of state

[inthepink]

Your emotional response is not needed.

Your first line indicates you are not a lawyer.

Writing "It isn't my opinion, it's fact, so it's not open for you to accept or reject" is plainly ridiculous.

I did not reveal initially that I am an English lawyer as there are consequences in revealing my position. (I am required to now state that my opinion on this matter should not be used for anything beyond party chit-chat and that legal advice should always be sought)

When I spoke of your "opinion", this is a common opener in legal argument. Legal argument is a special type of argument. It seeks various ways to form a 'legal opinion'. This discussion is on a point of law, simply saying it is a 'fact' simply begs the question, it is a recursive loop. The law itself decides what is a fact.

You must offer a case as some sort of precedence or a statute. The Guardian article said nothing in support of your opinion.

As every lawyer knows, every single time a journalist writes about a legal case they get it flatly wrong. The only exceptions are the ex-lawyers, such as Joshu Rozenberg.

Truth is a perfect defence.

The emotional tone of my response was due to your poor communication skills. You come across as rather rude. Furthermore, I never claimed to be a "lawyer" as you put it.

There's nothing ridiculous in stating that it is not my opinion - it isn't. I have no opinion on the matter at all. If truth is currently an adequate defence in the UK then why the need for a bill introducing a new statutory defence of truth?

If you are English and call yourself a lawyer then I can only assume that you are a solicitor and not a barrister.

[Nawtier]

so she told him to f*** off and left the building.

Sounds like a girl I might like to know.....is she cute ??

[Soutpeel]

so she told him to f*** off and left the building.

Sounds like a girl I might like to know.....is she cute ??

Same thing occurred to me as well.... ....OP please post picture of said culprit...:jap:

[lovelomsak]

>I found out that one of the girls commented on the service of the restaurant, the guy reacted and she told him that 'his

>business will suffer if he continues like this'

In Asian cultures in general, oblique remarks such as this (assuming this is a literal translation of what she said) are invariably interpreted as threats - and since the instigator is Asian herself, I've no doubt at all that she meant it as such.

Yes, it's ridiculous by Western standards, but this isn't the West. It was incredibly unwise of you to jump to the conclusion that the Bright Young Thing on your staff was in the right; now the local police will have you in their sights due to the loss of face caused by the insincere apology and gratuitous expletive, not to mention the disrespect for an elder in front of a lot of witnesses inside their police station, causing further loss of face for the police due to their failure to control the situation and assure a favorable outcome.

The cook and his extended family/tribe/clan will also have you, your business associates, the girl, and her family in their sights, due to the (from their perspective) outrageous loss of face caused by her behavior and defiance.

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk. Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Understand something - people get killed, building get burnt down, etc. over stuff like this every day in Thailand. And the enabling farang is going to be the primary designated hate object for all those people listed above who will believe that they have lost face as a result of your employee's irredentist behavior.

I agree with you. Perhaps there is more to this than the sweet young thing admits too. Now adays in Thailand there are getting to be more and more young women that are just plain trouble.The fact she told him to f#@ off and walked away is a sign to me she could perhaps be the problem,she wants the last word just to be the winner. In these times the young women arenot afraid to try tricks and manipulate.Who knows what led up to arguement in the restaurant. There could be a lot more to it than said. Maybe she was making demands of him or his restaurant and he wouldnot agree to her demands so she threatens him with loss of business. We only know the story from one veiw point and one side of the event. Who knows what happened prior and if many things were left out in the explanations to the boss.

Fire her and let the rest of the staff know that in the vicinity of the business give people respect or look for anotherjob.

Edited May 15, 2011 by lovelomsak

[zthyadat]

Defamation, my ass. This guy is a total crybaby. She stated her opinion, he stated his. They parted ways. Whoop-dee-doo.

If anyone should do something to make amends, it should be the cook/owner...and only if he wants to or cares about her repeat business.

I can't believe any of you posters even discussing the legalities of defamation. What did she do, take out an add in the local newspaper calling his restaurant and its service crap? She expressed her disappointment in front of her own coworkers, who were probably sympathetic to what bothered her in the first place.

This guy is an idiot and a wuss for getting police involved. Trying to get her arrested? Gimme a break. He should have to pay a modest fine to them (the cops) for wasting their time. Moreover, having the police come to her work...? That's pretty serious embarrassment for her. Even compelling them to come to her work merely for questioning is insulting, given the lack of seriousness of the supposed crime.

OP, I hope your entire staff takes your business elsewhere permanently, however inconvenient that may be.

From a western perspective, absolutely. But face is more important than anything here - even money. A Thai would rather shoot themselves in the foot and lose business than be "humiliated".

The legal system reflects this - so making someone lose face in public is a crime - whether you think it is worth discussing or not. I personally believe the face and social rank obsession here is a major factor in holding the country back, and has to become far less important before this place drags itself out of the quagmire, but it is their country and they can run it any way they want no matter how silly or childish it appears to people from another country.

[WarpSpeed]

I think this situation was a pure cultural example of Thai marketing. I am not defending the Thai man only trying to explain.

This young girl confronts the owner/operator and tries to give constructive criticism. Its not about business at all in his eyes. If a man of higher class had said the same he might have taken them seriously and done something constructive.

The girls parents probably would have told her to never confront directly but maybe give a very small hint. The girl probably learned this marketing advice of putting pressure on the businessman from her falang employer.

So the business suffers is not the primary concern to him but his pride is intact.

The law is probably designed to defuse this situation without violence.

Sadly there is some truth in this. I had an encounter with a race team I consulted for and I asked one mechanic to tell the other one what changes we wanted to make on something mechanical while I was away but he was reluctant to do so. I later found out when it wasn't done yet that they are the same age so there is a political barrier to doing that as one thinks it's a loss of face being told by someone his own age but the other understood what I wanted and I felt it necessary for him to relay my information and after all it was coming from me and not from his co-worker. With all of these games it's amazing that anything gets done here ?

This isn't the first time I've encountered this either so it wasn't a one off. I'm all for respecting your elders but there are times for the sake of civility and a positive end result that has to be put aside.

Edited May 15, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[zthyadat]

>I found out that one of the girls commented on the service of the restaurant, the guy reacted and she told him that 'his

>business will suffer if he continues like this'

In Asian cultures in general, oblique remarks such as this (assuming this is a literal translation of what she said) are invariably interpreted as threats - and since the instigator is Asian herself, I've no doubt at all that she meant it as such.

Yes, it's ridiculous by Western standards, but this isn't the West. It was incredibly unwise of you to jump to the conclusion that the Bright Young Thing on your staff was in the right; now the local police will have you in their sights due to the loss of face caused by the insincere apology and gratuitous expletive, not to mention the disrespect for an elder in front of a lot of witnesses inside their police station, causing further loss of face for the police due to their failure to control the situation and assure a favorable outcome.

The cook and his extended family/tribe/clan will also have you, your business associates, the girl, and her family in their sights, due to the (from their perspective) outrageous loss of face caused by her behavior and defiance.

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk. Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Understand something - people get killed, building get burnt down, etc. over stuff like this every day in Thailand. And the enabling farang is going to be the primary designated hate object for all those people listed above who will believe that they have lost face as a result of your employee's irredentist behavior.

I agree with you. Perhaps there is more to this than the sweet young thing admits too. Now adays in Thailand there are getting to be more and more young women that are just plain trouble.The fact she told him to f#@ off and walked away is a sign to me she could perhaps be the problem,she wants the last word just to be the winner. In these times the young women arenot afraid to try tricks and manipulate.Who knows what led up to arguement in the restaurant. There could be a lot more to it than said. Maybe she was making demands of him or his restaurant and he wouldnot agree to her demands so she threatens him with loss of business. We only know the story from one veiw point and one side of the event. Who knows what happened prior and if many things were left out in the explanations to the boss.

Fire her and let the rest of the staff know that in the vicinity of the business give people respect or look for anotherjob.

Maybe the "sweet young things" as you call them are sick of being bullied and expected by an unfair society to be "ladylike" meaning "shut your mouth or get it slapped". So perhaps it is time that young women squared off and told old dicks like Mr Enormous Penis the Cook to go F$%# himself instead of allowing him impunity to shout and stamp and spray his wounded little boy ego all over her.

And by the way, when you shout at women it has a violence to it - it scares them, just ask one because it is one step away from a physical attack, and in that event a woman rarely has a hope in hell of winning. This clown needed a slap in the chops and she gave him it, and he had to go crying to the cops. Be interesting to see how the case would pan out in constitutional court.

[lovelomsak]

>I found out that one of the girls commented on the service of the restaurant, the guy reacted and she told him that 'his

>business will suffer if he continues like this'

In Asian cultures in general, oblique remarks such as this (assuming this is a literal translation of what she said) are invariably interpreted as threats - and since the instigator is Asian herself, I've no doubt at all that she meant it as such.

Yes, it's ridiculous by Western standards, but this isn't the West. It was incredibly unwise of you to jump to the conclusion that the Bright Young Thing on your staff was in the right; now the local police will have you in their sights due to the loss of face caused by the insincere apology and gratuitous expletive, not to mention the disrespect for an elder in front of a lot of witnesses inside their police station, causing further loss of face for the police due to their failure to control the situation and assure a favorable outcome.

The cook and his extended family/tribe/clan will also have you, your business associates, the girl, and her family in their sights, due to the (from their perspective) outrageous loss of face caused by her behavior and defiance.

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk. Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Understand something - people get killed, building get burnt down, etc. over stuff like this every day in Thailand. And the enabling farang is going to be the primary designated hate object for all those people listed above who will believe that they have lost face as a result of your employee's irredentist behavior.

I agree with you. Perhaps there is more to this than the sweet young thing admits too. Now adays in Thailand there are getting to be more and more young women that are just plain trouble.The fact she told him to f#@ off and walked away is a sign to me she could perhaps be the problem,she wants the last word just to be the winner. In these times the young women arenot afraid to try tricks and manipulate.Who knows what led up to arguement in the restaurant. There could be a lot more to it than said. Maybe she was making demands of him or his restaurant and he wouldnot agree to her demands so she threatens him with loss of business. We only know the story from one veiw point and one side of the event. Who knows what happened prior and if many things were left out in the explanations to the boss.

Fire her and let the rest of the staff know that in the vicinity of the business give people respect or look for anotherjob.

Maybe the "sweet young things" as you call them are sick of being bullied and expected by an unfair society to be "ladylike" meaning "shut your mouth or get it slapped". So perhaps it is time that young women squared off and told old dicks like Mr Enormous Penis the Cook to go F$%# himself instead of allowing him impunity to shout and stamp and spray his wounded little boy ego all over her.

And by the way, when you shout at women it has a violence to it - it scares them, just ask one because it is one step away from a physical attack, and in that event a woman rarely has a hope in hell of winning. This clown needed a slap in the chops and she gave him it, and he had to go crying to the cops. Be interesting to see how the case would pan out in constitutional court.

MY MY mY. Have you ever considered taking an anger management course? Or do just not like men?

It is difficult to educate people on a forum but I shall try and help OK.

If you know anything at all about thai culture you would be well aware of how far she crossed the line when in the restaurant she verbally attacked him .Who knows why she did this but she did. In Thailand old,young male female donot like or want direct confrontation about anything. In Thai culture no matter how bad the meal was or the service they would not say a thing. They would simply pay their bill and perhaps never return. Never would a decent thai do what she did male or female. So drop your defense for her as a female in the situation. If someone tried that in a chinese restarant they would be chased out with a cleaver in the owners hand. No body goes into another persons business and tells them how to run it.If she didnot like the food eat somewhere else.

The op states that his workers alone spend over 2500 baht a day there it appears some people like the food. Public displays of direct agression in Thailand isnot gender based sorry.

Think about it why would a cook be at a table how often have you seen this anywhere in the world. He was probably demanded to come by the table that is how it would happen in most cases right. If a person calls a cook to the a table and berates them in public they are simply trouble in this country. Who in their right mind calls a cook out to tell him how he should prepare his food or loose customers. She is one person and one opinion. It appears business was doing ok up till then without her advice. She was as bad as the girl who killed all the people in the mini van when she ran into the back of them and later was texting on her phone as if nothing had happened. I think this one is a severe case of princessitiss.

Maybe her new career should be owning a restaurant since she is so knowledgeable on how to run one. Perhaps on that soi and compete.

The guy would have been happy with a simple apology but she couldnot even let it go she ahd to apologize well doing other things and when ask again for a more sincere apology she swears and runs out. She had to win even though she was wrong from the beginning.

Edited May 16, 2011 by lovelomsak

[zzaa09]

>I found out that one of the girls commented on the service of the restaurant, the guy reacted and she told him that 'his

>business will suffer if he continues like this'

In Asian cultures in general, oblique remarks such as this (assuming this is a literal translation of what she said) are invariably interpreted as threats - and since the instigator is Asian herself, I've no doubt at all that she meant it as such.

Yes, it's ridiculous by Western standards, but this isn't the West. It was incredibly unwise of you to jump to the conclusion that the Bright Young Thing on your staff was in the right; now the local police will have you in their sights due to the loss of face caused by the insincere apology and gratuitous expletive, not to mention the disrespect for an elder in front of a lot of witnesses inside their police station, causing further loss of face for the police due to their failure to control the situation and assure a favorable outcome.

The cook and his extended family/tribe/clan will also have you, your business associates, the girl, and her family in their sights, due to the (from their perspective) outrageous loss of face caused by her behavior and defiance.

And given the fact that the girl is native to the culture and understands all of the above full-well, my guess is that she's a typical lakorn-imitating, wannabe-hi-so arrogant little snob who thinks she's better than anyone else and that the magic farang will get her out of trouble no matter what she does, and that instead of politely and reasonably expressing her desire for a different preparation of her food, she was probably rude and disrespectful in the extreme to the cook, thus provoking him in the first place.

My very strong advice to you is to apologize to the cook and his family for your staff 'causing trouble'; fire the girl in question for her poor judgment and unnecessarily getting you into a difficult situation; apologize to the specific police officers who served the complaint; apologize to the local highest on-site police official; and in future, avoiding any and all internecine disputes of any nature amongst Thais.

This was not a work-related matter, and you have demonstrated extremely poor judgment and a basic lack of understanding of Asian culture by involving yourself in this situation, and by doing so have put your livelihood, the livelihoods of your business partners, and the employment security of your employees at risk. Given your apparently total lack of understanding of Asian culture in general and Thai culture in particular, you should probably reconsider whether it is wise for you to continue to work and live in this region.

Understand something - people get killed, building get burnt down, etc. over stuff like this every day in Thailand. And the enabling farang is going to be the primary designated hate object for all those people listed above who will believe that they have lost face as a result of your employee's irredentist behavior.

I agree with you. Perhaps there is more to this than the sweet young thing admits too. Now adays in Thailand there are getting to be more and more young women that are just plain trouble.The fact she told him to f#@ off and walked away is a sign to me she could perhaps be the problem,she wants the last word just to be the winner. In these times the young women arenot afraid to try tricks and manipulate.Who knows what led up to arguement in the restaurant. There could be a lot more to it than said. Maybe she was making demands of him or his restaurant and he wouldnot agree to her demands so she threatens him with loss of business. We only know the story from one veiw point and one side of the event. Who knows what happened prior and if many things were left out in the explanations to the boss.

Fire her and let the rest of the staff know that in the vicinity of the business give people respect or look for anotherjob.

Maybe the "sweet young things" as you call them are sick of being bullied and expected by an unfair society to be "ladylike" meaning "shut your mouth or get it slapped". So perhaps it is time that young women squared off and told old dicks like Mr Enormous Penis the Cook to go F$%# himself instead of allowing him impunity to shout and stamp and spray his wounded little boy ego all over her.

And by the way, when you shout at women it has a violence to it - it scares them, just ask one because it is one step away from a physical attack, and in that event a woman rarely has a hope in hell of winning. This clown needed a slap in the chops and she gave him it, and he had to go crying to the cops. Be interesting to see how the case would pan out in constitutional court.

A constitutional court. One that is traditionally patriarchal-dominated. All with the same Mr. Enormous Penis character.

The revolution should be encountered from a social subversion, less an officialdom or legal stance. The "laws" are created by them, for them.