Former Thai Police Commissioner Chalor Gives Evidence In Saudi Case

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Chalor gives evidence in Saudi case

By Kesinee Taengkiew

The Nation

Former police commissioner Chalor Kerdthes gave testimony at Ratchadaphisek Criminal Court yesterday in the case against Region 5 Police chief Pol LtGeneral Somkid Boonthanom and four other officers charged with kidnapping and murdering Saudi businessman Mohammad alRuwaili, who disappeared on February 12, 1990.

Chalor, who had previously been sentenced to death by the Supreme Court for his role in the murder of the wife and son of gems trader Santi Srithanakhan, told the court that Saudi Arabia had sent Pol Capt Shahad alSuri to work with Thai police in looking for jewels stolen from King Faisal palace in 1989 by Thai worker Kriangkrai Techamong.

AlSuri telephoned him on February 1, 1990, asking for police protection after the Saudi escaped an attack in which three Saudi diplomats were killed.

Chalor said he went to see alSuri the next day at a Bangkok apartment.

He said he had a meal with alRuwaili before his disappearance, after being introduced to him by alSuri.

Chalor told the court that the police investigation at the time suspected alRuwaili was involved in the diplomats' deaths following a dispute over sending Thai workers to Saudi Arabia.

After newspapers reported alRuwaili's disappearance, thennational police chief Gen Sawaeng Theerasawat called a meeting attended by Chalor and Pol LtGeneral Tanu Homhuan, he said. During the meeting Tanu reportedly said that "Mohammad alRuwaili was to be interrogated, not killed", leading to a small argument among the officers.

After that meeting, Chalor said Sawaeng ordered him to stop probing the case, but he continued anyway until he got a lead. A source told him that after alRuwaili died, the five defendants brought his body to Chon Buri to burn it. He identified one of the defendants, former police captain Suradech Udomdee, as the one who moved the body.

In 1993, Somkid and four cops were charged but the public prosecutor refused to indict them, Chalor said.

The Department of Special Investigation took over the Saudi investigations in 2006 and interviewed Chalor as a witness twice.

Chalor said he did not know the five policemen and did not have any disputes with them, saying he had been jailed for a long time.

The court appointed the final session of witness questioning to start today at 9.30am.

-- The Nation 2011-06-24

[Briggsy]

21 years after the event.

Typical Thai stalling tactics.

[ArcherBKK]

It's amazing how little life seems to mean to the Thai's , I'm sure not all of them..However Thailand being a Buddhist society predominantly it is rather scary.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It's amazing how little life seems to mean to the Thai's , I'm sure not all of them..However Thailand being a Buddhist society predominantly it is rather scary.

I'm American, and there are many elements of society for whom life means little. Such evil is not specific to any country or other arbitrary grouping, it is part of human life everywhere.

The problem is bigger in countries where the rule of law is weak, but that is a systemic political problem, not an ethnic difference.

Personally I feel much less exposed to danger here than I would back home, but then again I try not to mess with anyone's rice bowl or to cause others to lose face. I think the violence here is much less random and widespread than it is back home.

[sprq]

It's amazing how little life seems to mean to the Thai's , I'm sure not all of them..However Thailand being a Buddhist society predominantly it is rather scary.

I'm American, and there are many elements of society for whom life means little. Such evil is not specific to any country or other arbitrary grouping, it is part of human life everywhere.

The problem is bigger in countries where the rule of law is weak, but that is a systemic political problem, not an ethnic difference.

Personally I feel much less exposed to danger here than I would back home, but then again I try not to mess with anyone's rice bowl or to cause others to lose face. I think the violence here is much less random and widespread than it is back home.

And that goes for most western countries, I would say.

[Oberkommando]

I think the violence here is much less random and widespread than it is back home.

Less random perhaps, but certainly more violent.

Civil war in the south, killings on the streets of Bangkok, politicians and officials killed on a daily basis etc, etc.

[geriatrickid]

I think the violence here is much less random and widespread than it is back home.

Less random perhaps, but certainly more violent.

Civil war in the south, killings on the streets of Bangkok, politicians and officials killed on a daily basis etc, etc.

Beats having subways go boom in Spain and England, sectarian vioolence in Belfast, neo faciast rallies & beatings in Russia, mass genocide in some slavic countries and Africa etc., etc.

[rkidlad]

I think the violence here is much less random and widespread than it is back home.

Less random perhaps, but certainly more violent.

Civil war in the south, killings on the streets of Bangkok, politicians and officials killed on a daily basis etc, etc.

Beats having subways go boom in Spain and England, sectarian vioolence in Belfast, neo faciast rallies & beatings in Russia, mass genocide in some slavic countries and Africa etc., etc.

No one blew up London's underground, Northern Ireland until recently has been very good and Russia is even more corrupt than Thailand. No country is perfect, but I do generally feel safer in Bangkok than most other major cities. All the same, don't spew out nonsense.

[rotary]

It's amazing how little life seems to mean to the Thai's , I'm sure not all of them..However Thailand being a Buddhist society predominantly it is rather scary.

I'm American, and there are many elements of society for whom life means little. Such evil is not specific to any country or other arbitrary grouping, it is part of human life everywhere.

The problem is bigger in countries where the rule of law is weak, but that is a systemic political problem, not an ethnic difference.

Personally I feel much less exposed to danger here than I would back home, but then again I try not to mess with anyone's rice bowl or to cause others to lose face. I think the violence here is much less random and widespread than it is back home.

One thing about Thailand. Most violent crime is for a reason and the people know each other and know what it happened or at least have a good idea. In the USA a large amount of violent crime is random without the people involved knowing each other. Your are right, much safer in Thailand than the USA in my opinion.

[champken]

To me this case shows how ingrained corruption and dirty deeds are within the Tha police force, the mind boggles just wondering how many other times officers have been involved in similar crimes, most victims wont have any where near the clout of the Saudi government and so consequently nothing happens and cover ups prevail

[SteeleJoe]

Well apart for what he is in prison for -- which is horrible enough (the murder of a child) -- Chalor has a very ugly history and is a truly nasty piece of work....

It's amazing how little life seems to mean to the Thai's , I'm sure not all of them..However Thailand being a Buddhist society predominantly it is rather scary.

I'm American, and there are many elements of society for whom life means little. Such evil is not specific to any country or other arbitrary grouping, it is part of human life everywhere.

The problem is bigger in countries where the rule of law is weak, but that is a systemic political problem, not an ethnic difference.

Personally I feel much less exposed to danger here than I would back home, but then again I try not to mess with anyone's rice bowl or to cause others to lose face. I think the violence here is much less random and widespread than it is back home.

One thing about Thailand. Most violent crime is for a reason and the people know each other and know what it happened or at least have a good idea. In the USA a large amount of violent crime is random without the people involved knowing each other. Your are right, much safer in Thailand than the USA in my opinion.

I agree with much of the post from BigJohnny, but I wonder if you can support this assertion from your post:

"In the USA a large amount of violent crime is random without the people involved knowing each other."

Please elaborate on specifically how much more that is case there than here and on what you base this...

[SteeleJoe]

To me this case shows how ingrained corruption and dirty deeds are within the Tha police force, the mind boggles just wondering how many other times officers have been involved in similar crimes, most victims wont have any where near the clout of the Saudi government and so consequently nothing happens and cover ups prevail

Well, as I said Chalor was especially bad news but you are absolutely right about the force as a whole -- and the evidence of that is far too copious to even begin to go into...Similar crimes? Well, this one was pretty spectacular and massive but certainly there have been a few very big ones. More to the point there thousands of "smaller" cases (including but not confined to murder); and even with the clout of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, it is decades later and we still don't entirely know what happened and all of who was involved. It was years before anything was done at all...

Bear in mind too that Chalor has reportedly had a very comfortable existence in prison, relative to that of the usual convict. What does that tell you?

[LomSak27]

Good to see posters have reaffirmed they are much safer here than in the west, despite the higher murder rate. this sorted I guess we can move on to ...

isn't the statute of limitations 20 years in Thailand? Or does that only apply to certain crimes?

That said it is good that forms have been followed -

Chalor told the court that the police investigation at the time suspected alRuwaili was involved in the diplomats' deaths following a dispute over sending Thai workers to Saudi Arabia.

No mention of diamonds, bravo Mr Chalor

Is this all nothingblowing in the wind

[steveyinasia]

Amazing that this story raises it head again just days after Indonesia announces that it will stop sending maids to Saudi....coincidence??????

[SteeleJoe]

No mention of diamonds, bravo Mr Chalor

He's already been convicted of involvement in that case.

Of course, there just might be some reasons why it would behoove him not to say anymore about that case...the current owner of a certain blue gemstone for one...

[SteeleJoe]

Amazing that this story raises it head again just days after Indonesia announces that it will stop sending maids to Saudi....coincidence??????

Saudis execute Indonesian convicted of murder, a couple days ago. Indonesians respond with outrage and this announcement.

Ongoing judiicial process in Thailand (years in the making and regarding a cases decades old that includes Thais stealing from Saudi royals and Thai police involve din that and subsequent murders of Saudi diplomats and a prominent businessman) feature testimony from witness today.

Both events are newsworthy and are reported.

Coincedence??????

Ummm...what else would it be?

Edited June 24, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[bkk_mike]

No one blew up London's underground...

The photo of the blown-up bus was what was on all the papers, but more people died from the bombs on the tube that day. (7 July 2005)

[Johpa]

To me this case shows how ingrained corruption and dirty deeds are within the Tha police force, the mind boggles just wondering how many other times officers have been involved in similar crimes, most victims wont have any where near the clout of the Saudi government and so consequently nothing happens and cover ups prevail

On the other hand, if the Royal Thai Police were not the largest organized crime syndicate within the Kingdom then just imagine what the level of violence would be and ponder whether the resulting society would have created the ex-pat paradise that many here are now enjoying.

[Steely Dan]

To me this case shows how ingrained corruption and dirty deeds are within the Tha police force, the mind boggles just wondering how many other times officers have been involved in similar crimes, most victims wont have any where near the clout of the Saudi government and so consequently nothing happens and cover ups prevail

On the other hand, if the Royal Thai Police were not the largest organized crime syndicate within the Kingdom then just imagine what the level of violence would be and ponder whether the resulting society would have created the ex-pat paradise that many here are now enjoying.

Mexico is a case in point, comparable per capita income yet it's carnage over there with the various drug cartels.

[SteeleJoe]

To me this case shows how ingrained corruption and dirty deeds are within the Tha police force, the mind boggles just wondering how many other times officers have been involved in similar crimes, most victims wont have any where near the clout of the Saudi government and so consequently nothing happens and cover ups prevail

On the other hand, if the Royal Thai Police were not the largest organized crime syndicate within the Kingdom then just imagine what the level of violence would be and ponder whether the resulting society would have created the ex-pat paradise that many here are now enjoying.

It's an interesting posit and not without merit (though I don't think I'd not go so far as to call it an "ex-pat paradise".); having said that, I'm not at all sure the RTP does much if any good in inhibiting organized crime by those not in uniform -- indeed we know that that flourishes as well and always with varying degrees of complicity of the RTP, so it may be the case that -- given the failure to enforce the law and even actively subvert it and violate it, crime is only worse because of them. As for violence...no, I'm not sure they have any sort of restraining effect on that either.

Edited June 25, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[chaoyang]

The persistence of the cover up and unbelievable twists and gaps in this whole story indicate an entire component of the tale is missing, probably because of people who can never be spoken of.

The murky nature of my own sentence above -- the only way it can be said, through allusions -- shows why this case continues to drag on.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

>One thing about Thailand. Most violent crime is for a reason and the people know each other and know what it happened or at least have a good idea. In the USA a large amount of violent crime is random without the people involved knowing each other. Your are right, much safer in Thailand than the USA in my opinion.

> "In the USA a large amount of violent crime is random without the people involved knowing each other." Please elaborate on specifically how much more that is case there than here and on what you base this...

Just go to any large cities' slums late at night in a fancy car, park it and start walking around the neighborhood trying to make friends and you'll find out.

I do this all the time around Bangkok - you meet the nicest people in the slums here, IMO much more so than in "hi-so" circles, and even though I've been told it's relatively dangerous, say in the depths of Klong Toey after midnight, I've never actually felt in danger - I've got pretty trustworthy "danger radar".

I grew up in New York and was mugged three times before I was twelve, and that was on the Upper East Side (safest, wealthiest areas) in broad daylight not doing anything risky. My mum and dad taught me to always have a USD$20 bill in my pocket to give them, because a strung-out crazy would likely slit your throat in frustration if you didn't have enough cash on you for their fix.

The kateoys on Sukhumvit are one exception, and only then in my case from pickpocketing, as I don't actually interact with them.

Is that enough evidence for you? Anecdotal I know, but I'm sure the stats would back me up.

> I'm not at all sure the RTP does much if any good in inhibiting organized crime by those not in uniform -- indeed we know that that flourishes as well and always with varying degrees of complicity of the RTP

>as for violence...no, I'm not sure they have any sort of restraining effect on that either.

IMO they are very much a restraining influence. Just like 70-90 years ago in certain urban areas in the States, when the Cosa Nostra kept relative order in the streets. Sure they ran their businesses, but as long as you didn't mess with their rice bowl and kept your nose clean otherwise things were a lot safer for the average Joe than if they weren't there.

Case in point was the violence used under Thaksin to eliminate their competition in the drug trade - I'm sure the junkies weren't happy at the resulting price rises, but it did keep an unregulated freelance trade in check - look at Latin America's violence, if a single cartel were the government in each country it would certainly be more peaceful than when the government actually tries to crack down, and/or they're competing with each other.

I'm not saying the whole situation doesn't suck, and that it's much safer where the rule of law and the police force is actually relatively clean and efficient, but without the BiB mafia running the show at street-level I'm afraid Thai society would suffer a relative collapse into chaos pretty quickly.

In fact one of the things I noticed since Thaksin's fall is that there were many more reports of petty theft in the neighborhood, I reckon the police slacked off a bit once the competition took over the top slots. BTW the poster who said the BiB were the "only" Mafia in Thailand's needs to buy a clue - the armed forces in conjunction with the owners of 80%+ of the means of production here are a major criminal conspiracy in their own right, perhaps a bit more subtle sometimes but just as ruthless and well-organized.

But to reiterate my main point - as long as you keep your nose clean and live as a legitimate citizen, you are quite safe here. To the extent you participate in activities that bring you in touch with evil people, or god forbid actually mess with them, try to make your living competing amongst them (this includes the bar business), then you are putting yourself at geometrically higher risk. Don't cause people to lose big face, walk softly. Unless you're a big connected poobah yourself, but even then don't mess with that colonel's mia noi, even if she comes on to you during her English lesson! 8-)

[EyesWideOpen]

The Saudi gems case is clearly my favorite crime in Thailand, encompassing all aspects of " Thai-ness". If I ever leave Thailand, I would like to write a screen play about it, as this is truly a case where truth is stranger than fiction.