Candida Cleansing

[JohnLee]

Anyone into Candida Cleansing? It has been suggested that a session(s) of cleansing could be benificial for some gut problems I'm experiencing right now. Don't want to go into specifics as you may well be about to tuck into a hearty meal! Any sugestions where I might buy the necessary products in Chiang Mai? Have tried a few Health shops around town without success. My belly awaits your advice.

Also past experiences re this treatment would be digested with keen interest.

Cheers

JL

[msg362]

Do you know if you have a candida infection? It's unlikely to be living in your gut. If you are sure you have ( a culture would confirm it) you might need to take an antifungal. AFAIK Candida is an infection of external ( mucosal?) surfaces, but in conditions of supressed immunity can spread ( I stand to be corrected). I'd suggest you don't just guess but get confirmation as a serious infection might be an indicator of an underlying problem. A visit to a doctor would be good I think.

Edited July 20, 2011 by msg362

[Ned]

Try a spoon of bicarbonate of soda in water every day. It worked for me. Had a candida rash on my face for 12 years but with bicarb I've got it under control. The die off caused a bad headache for a few weeks but it was worth it.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Apple Cider Vinegar

Baking soda

Magnesium Citrate

Vitamin E

Probiotics

and most importantly stop eating sugars, starches, alcohol and dairy because they will promote fermentation and growth of the candida yeasts in the digestive tract.

Some people also use food quality Hydrogen Peroxide and or Colloidal silver in water to reduce the populations of anaerobic bacteria in the digestive tract. Do research on H202 before attempting that.. Too much H202 can cause real problems in the digestive tract.

Conversely getting more oxygen into the body with exercise, deep breathing etc will reduce anaerobic bacteria and promote healthy aerobic bacteria.

[msg362]

Apple Cider Vinegar

Baking soda

Magnesium Citrate

Vitamin E

Probiotics

and most importantly stop eating sugars, starches, alcohol and dairy because they will promote fermentation and growth of the candida yeasts in the digestive tract.

Some people also use food quality Hydrogen Peroxide and or Colloidal silver in water to reduce the populations of anaerobic bacteria in the digestive tract. Do research on H202 before attempting that.. Too much H202 can cause real problems in the digestive tract.

Conversely getting more oxygen into the body with exercise, deep breathing etc will reduce anaerobic bacteria and promote healthy aerobic bacteria.

Candida is a fungus, not a bacterium and anaerobic bacteria are not necessarily harmful Filling you lungs with air is unlikely to affect the balance of bacteria in the gut. Drinking H2O2 could be dangerous and should not be attempted. Colloidal silver is a disinfectant and will kill both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. We need bugs in our gut!!!!. Where is your evidence that not eating, for example, dairy, promotes fermentation

I would agree eating probiotics is a sensible idea, but for the rest, well evidence would be a good idea and we can all look at it.. If you drink cider vinegar and eat baking soda you'll have a fizzy gut!!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Apple Cider Vinegar

Baking soda

Magnesium Citrate

Vitamin E

Probiotics

and most importantly stop eating sugars, starches, alcohol and dairy because they will promote fermentation and growth of the candida yeasts in the digestive tract.

Some people also use food quality Hydrogen Peroxide and or Colloidal silver in water to reduce the populations of anaerobic bacteria in the digestive tract. Do research on H202 before attempting that.. Too much H202 can cause real problems in the digestive tract.

Conversely getting more oxygen into the body with exercise, deep breathing etc will reduce anaerobic bacteria and promote healthy aerobic bacteria.

Candida is a fungus, not a bacterium and anaerobic bacteria are not necessarily harmful Filling you lungs with air is unlikely to affect the balance of bacteria in the gut. Drinking H2O2 could be dangerous and should not be attempted. Colloidal silver is a disinfectant and will kill both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. We need bugs in our gut!!!!. Where is your evidence that not eating, for example, dairy, promotes fermentation

I would agree eating probiotics is a sensible idea, but for the rest, well evidence would be a good idea and we can all look at it.. If you drink cider vinegar and eat baking soda you'll have a fizzy gut!!

uh.... if you mix a base with a acid then depending on the amounts of each they can be blended to neutral PH or near neutral PH.

I would shoot for about 6.8 to 7.2 PH. That makes a smooth taste. A little lower PH and it seems to taste a little more tangy. Quite pleasant really. Lime juice and baking soda is even better. The concept behind the ACV/Lime and baking soda are benefits like.

Vit C

Minerals

Descaling properties and alkaline PH residual effect of Baking soda

Really I would suspect Leaky Gut Syndrome as the likely root cause of a candida overgrowth.

Just change to a diet that heals the gut and removing the damaging foods and practices.

Damaging foods can vary somewhat from person to person.

The commons gut damaging foods are

Gluten containing grains like wheat, barley, rye etc

Legumes

Dairy

Nighthades

Nuts

Often times after healing the gut some or all these foods can be rentroduced.

With a leaky gut then undigested proteins can enter the blood stream thru the damaged lining of the intestines. The body reacts to these foreign proteins by inflammation etc. Various allergic reactions.

Glutens, Legumes, nuts and even some other grains like rice etc are difficult to digest due to anti nutrients like phytic acid.

IF a person has leaky gut then removing dairy decreases mucus and really improves the healing time.

Often times a person can reintroduce some dairy back into the diet without negative effect. Some types of dairy like raw goats milk etc seem to be less problematic.

[NancyL]

Oh dear, this all sounds rather serious. I think the first thing the OP shoud do is to visit a doctor to confirm his diagnosis. Frankly, I think most people with this type of problem would benefit from loosing 50 pounds, giving up alcohol and getting 8 hrs of sleep a night. It may not matter what they eat, just so they live a sensible livestyle. (Who am I to preach? It's almost 2 am and I'm still up drinking a beer and reading Thai Visa forum!)

[JohnLee]

Oh dear, this all sounds rather serious. I think the first thing the OP shoud do is to visit a doctor to confirm his diagnosis. Frankly, I think most people with this type of problem would benefit from loosing 50 pounds, giving up alcohol and getting 8 hrs of sleep a night. It may not matter what they eat, just so they live a sensible livestyle. (Who am I to preach? It's almost 2 am and I'm still up drinking a beer and reading Thai Visa forum!)

Thanks everyone for your interesting replies. NancyL, you got it spot-on with the "50 pounds..alcohol...and sleep. As for the doctor visit, I beleive the tests involved can be lengthy and (in Thailand) a wee bit expensive. Just thought I'd cut a few corners and see if the cleanse resulted in any marked improvement in my general feeling of wellness. I'm also with you all on the sensible lifestyle, but life in Thailand, being what it is, can prove to be a stumbling block to such good intentions. I have found an interesting wed site here on the subject which I'm currently digesting () and may throw more light on the whole Candida subject. It states that: "Common major Candida symptoms may include: sugar or sweet cravings, gas, bloating, fatigue, low energy, allergies, sinusitis, acid reflux, hormonal imbalances, brain fog, depression and arthritis." Yep that just about sums up most of my symptoms. Interestingly it is usually exists in a yeast form but has the ability to morph into a fungus. Let's see what else it throws-up.

Cheers

JL

[msg362]

Apple Cider Vinegar

Baking soda

Magnesium Citrate

Vitamin E

Probiotics

and most importantly stop eating sugars, starches, alcohol and dairy because they will promote fermentation and growth of the candida yeasts in the digestive tract.

Some people also use food quality Hydrogen Peroxide and or Colloidal silver in water to reduce the populations of anaerobic bacteria in the digestive tract. Do research on H202 before attempting that.. Too much H202 can cause real problems in the digestive tract.

Conversely getting more oxygen into the body with exercise, deep breathing etc will reduce anaerobic bacteria and promote healthy aerobic bacteria.

Candida is a fungus, not a bacterium and anaerobic bacteria are not necessarily harmful Filling you lungs with air is unlikely to affect the balance of bacteria in the gut. Drinking H2O2 could be dangerous and should not be attempted. Colloidal silver is a disinfectant and will kill both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. We need bugs in our gut!!!!. Where is your evidence that not eating, for example, dairy, promotes fermentation

I would agree eating probiotics is a sensible idea, but for the rest, well evidence would be a good idea and we can all look at it.. If you drink cider vinegar and eat baking soda you'll have a fizzy gut!!

uh.... if you mix a base with a acid then depending on the amounts of each they can be blended to neutral PH or near neutral PH.

I would shoot for about 6.8 to 7.2 PH. That makes a smooth taste. A little lower PH and it seems to taste a little more tangy. Quite pleasant really. Lime juice and baking soda is even better. The concept behind the ACV/Lime and baking soda are benefits like.

Vit C

Minerals

Descaling properties and alkaline PH residual effect of Baking soda

Really I would suspect Leaky Gut Syndrome as the likely root cause of a candida overgrowth.

Just change to a diet that heals the gut and removing the damaging foods and practices.

Damaging foods can vary somewhat from person to person.

The commons gut damaging foods are

Gluten containing grains like wheat, barley, rye etc

Legumes

Dairy

Nighthades

Nuts

Often times after healing the gut some or all these foods can be rentroduced.

With a leaky gut then undigested proteins can enter the blood stream thru the damaged lining of the intestines. The body reacts to these foreign proteins by inflammation etc. Various allergic reactions.

Glutens, Legumes, nuts and even some other grains like rice etc are difficult to digest due to anti nutrients like phytic acid.

IF a person has leaky gut then removing dairy decreases mucus and really improves the healing time.

Often times a person can reintroduce some dairy back into the diet without negative effect. Some types of dairy like raw goats milk etc seem to be less problematic.

uh.... if you mix a base with a acid then depending on the amounts of each they can be blended to neutral PH or near neutral PH.

Yes I do realise that but in this case you'll produce CO2.

I see you have not come up with any evidence for your assertion that eating dairy products can cause fermentation. I'd be very interested to see the peer reviewed papers. Nor have you retracted your advice to ? drink? H2O2, would you feel responsible if the OP suffered as a result?

To the OP, culturing in a lab is not frantically expensive, I would guess around 1000Baht, probably worth it rather than set off on wild goose chases.

BTW Leaky gut syndrome is not a recognised condition, ref Wilkipedia

Leaky gut syndrome is a proposed condition of an altered or damaged bowel lining. The term is used by some alternative medicine practitioners, but the syndrome is not a recognized diagnosis.^[

Edited July 21, 2011 by msg362

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Apple Cider Vinegar

Baking soda

Magnesium Citrate

Vitamin E

Probiotics

and most importantly stop eating sugars, starches, alcohol and dairy because they will promote fermentation and growth of the candida yeasts in the digestive tract.

Some people also use food quality Hydrogen Peroxide and or Colloidal silver in water to reduce the populations of anaerobic bacteria in the digestive tract. Do research on H202 before attempting that.. Too much H202 can cause real problems in the digestive tract.

Conversely getting more oxygen into the body with exercise, deep breathing etc will reduce anaerobic bacteria and promote healthy aerobic bacteria.

Candida is a fungus, not a bacterium and anaerobic bacteria are not necessarily harmful Filling you lungs with air is unlikely to affect the balance of bacteria in the gut. Drinking H2O2 could be dangerous and should not be attempted. Colloidal silver is a disinfectant and will kill both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. We need bugs in our gut!!!!. Where is your evidence that not eating, for example, dairy, promotes fermentation

I would agree eating probiotics is a sensible idea, but for the rest, well evidence would be a good idea and we can all look at it.. If you drink cider vinegar and eat baking soda you'll have a fizzy gut!!

uh.... if you mix a base with a acid then depending on the amounts of each they can be blended to neutral PH or near neutral PH.

I would shoot for about 6.8 to 7.2 PH. That makes a smooth taste. A little lower PH and it seems to taste a little more tangy. Quite pleasant really. Lime juice and baking soda is even better. The concept behind the ACV/Lime and baking soda are benefits like.

Vit C

Minerals

Descaling properties and alkaline PH residual effect of Baking soda

Really I would suspect Leaky Gut Syndrome as the likely root cause of a candida overgrowth.

Just change to a diet that heals the gut and removing the damaging foods and practices.

Damaging foods can vary somewhat from person to person.

The commons gut damaging foods are

Gluten containing grains like wheat, barley, rye etc

Legumes

Dairy

Nighthades

Nuts

Often times after healing the gut some or all these foods can be rentroduced.

With a leaky gut then undigested proteins can enter the blood stream thru the damaged lining of the intestines. The body reacts to these foreign proteins by inflammation etc. Various allergic reactions.

Glutens, Legumes, nuts and even some other grains like rice etc are difficult to digest due to anti nutrients like phytic acid.

IF a person has leaky gut then removing dairy decreases mucus and really improves the healing time.

Often times a person can reintroduce some dairy back into the diet without negative effect. Some types of dairy like raw goats milk etc seem to be less problematic.

uh.... if you mix a base with a acid then depending on the amounts of each they can be blended to neutral PH or near neutral PH.

Yes I do realise that but in this case you'll produce CO2.

I see you have not come up with any evidence for your assertion that eating dairy products can cause fermentation. I'd be very interested to see the peer reviewed papers. Nor have you retracted your advice to ? drink? H2O2, would you feel responsible if the OP suffered as a result?

To the OP, culturing in a lab is not frantically expensive, I would guess around 1000Baht, probably worth it rather than set off on wild goose chases.

BTW Leaky gut syndrome is not a recognised condition, ref Wilkipedia

Leaky gut syndrome is a proposed condition of an altered or damaged bowel lining. The term is used by some alternative medicine practitioners, but the syndrome is not a recognized diagnosis.^[

When you mix an acid and a base it will fizz until the reaction is over and then safe to drink without gas or fizz problems.

Leaky Gut Syndrome will be going mainstream as a number of major Pharmaceutical companies are close to bringing Leaky Gut drugs to market.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

forgot to add

Dairy contains Lactose which is a disaccharide sugar.

Most people are "Lactose Intolerant" to varying degrees.

Lactose Intolerance means inability to digest Lactose.

When a sugar sits around in the warm gut undigested it tends to ferment.

Fermentation explained

This is well established.

Lactose Fermentation search

Edited July 21, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[msg362]

Candida is a fungus, not a bacterium and anaerobic bacteria are not necessarily harmful Filling you lungs with air is unlikely to affect the balance of bacteria in the gut. Drinking H2O2 could be dangerous and should not be attempted. Colloidal silver is a disinfectant and will kill both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. We need bugs in our gut!!!!. Where is your evidence that not eating, for example, dairy, promotes fermentation

I would agree eating probiotics is a sensible idea, but for the rest, well evidence would be a good idea and we can all look at it.. If you drink cider vinegar and eat baking soda you'll have a fizzy gut!!

uh.... if you mix a base with a acid then depending on the amounts of each they can be blended to neutral PH or near neutral PH.

I would shoot for about 6.8 to 7.2 PH. That makes a smooth taste. A little lower PH and it seems to taste a little more tangy. Quite pleasant really. Lime juice and baking soda is even better. The concept behind the ACV/Lime and baking soda are benefits like.

Vit C

Minerals

Descaling properties and alkaline PH residual effect of Baking soda

Really I would suspect Leaky Gut Syndrome as the likely root cause of a candida overgrowth.

Just change to a diet that heals the gut and removing the damaging foods and practices.

Damaging foods can vary somewhat from person to person.

The commons gut damaging foods are

Gluten containing grains like wheat, barley, rye etc

Legumes

Dairy

Nighthades

Nuts

Often times after healing the gut some or all these foods can be rentroduced.

With a leaky gut then undigested proteins can enter the blood stream thru the damaged lining of the intestines. The body reacts to these foreign proteins by inflammation etc. Various allergic reactions.

Glutens, Legumes, nuts and even some other grains like rice etc are difficult to digest due to anti nutrients like phytic acid.

IF a person has leaky gut then removing dairy decreases mucus and really improves the healing time.

Often times a person can reintroduce some dairy back into the diet without negative effect. Some types of dairy like raw goats milk etc seem to be less problematic.

uh.... if you mix a base with a acid then depending on the amounts of each they can be blended to neutral PH or near neutral PH.

Yes I do realise that but in this case you'll produce CO2.

I see you have not come up with any evidence for your assertion that eating dairy products can cause fermentation. I'd be very interested to see the peer reviewed papers. Nor have you retracted your advice to ? drink? H2O2, would you feel responsible if the OP suffered as a result?

To the OP, culturing in a lab is not frantically expensive, I would guess around 1000Baht, probably worth it rather than set off on wild goose chases.

BTW Leaky gut syndrome is not a recognised condition, ref Wilkipedia

Leaky gut syndrome is a proposed condition of an altered or damaged bowel lining. The term is used by some alternative medicine practitioners, but the syndrome is not a recognized diagnosis.^[

When you mix an acid and a base it will fizz until the reaction is over and then safe to drink without gas or fizz problems.

Leaky Gut Syndrome will be going mainstream as a number of major Pharmaceutical companies are close to bringing Leaky Gut drugs to market.

I think you should learn some chemistry. If you mix, for example, HCl and NaOH, no fizz, just salt. I'll spell it out, if you mix a weak acid and bicarbonate you will get CO2 released, that is fizzy! It's the bicarbonate bit that releases CO2 and fizzy drinks are safe to drink

Still no evidence about your early assertions I see, nor references to the 'major Pharmaceutical companies'. Please quote the scientific papers supporting this notion. No response on H2O2 either. Please support your assertions with at least a few facts before you send people off to drink H2O2

If someone is harmed by taking your unsubstantiated advice would you feel any responsibility?

[msg362]

If you mix, for example, NaOH and HCl you will get salt, no fizz. Ut's the bicarbonate bit that releases the CO2.

CSN. please learn some chemistry before asserting 'facts'

Also I see no response to my request for references to your earlier assertions re dairy products etc. Now new ones about 'Major Pharmaceutical companies. Could we PLEASE have some supporting evidence for your so far unfounded assertions. Then we might be able to have a sensible discussion

How you you feel if someone was injured by taking your advice to drink H2O2? would you feel any responsibility?

I repeat to the OP. best advice, find out if you have a Candida infection before taking any of these so called remedies and don't drink H2O2!!!.

[msg362]

forgot to add

Dairy contains Lactose which is a disaccharide sugar.

Most people are "Lactose Intolerant" to varying degrees.

Lactose Intolerance means inability to digest Lactose.

When a sugar sits around in the warm gut undigested it tends to ferment.

Fermentation explained

This is well established.

Lactose Fermentation search

I understand fermentation but can you please explain what it is that 'ferments' the lactose in the gut. It cannot 'ferment without some intervention by, possibly anaerobic bacteria You are wrong, most people are NOT intolerant to lactose, it's an evolutionary adaptation to northern climes, Asians tend to be lactose intolerant. don't say 'most people unless you have evidence.

When will you provide any evidence for your claims or are you just rambling on ?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

dam_n Dude.. You have issues.

I think the OP was looking for ideas of what other people do for candida with what is available in Thailand.

I think he got some ideas to pursue and was not interested in starting some sort of argument jihad.

Welcome to TV. sheesh

[Sheryl]

For the record:

With the exception of probiotics and possiobly avoidance of certain foods if the individual is intolerant/allergic to them, the remedies bandied about in this thread are not accepted medical practice and the supposed mechanism of action is junk science in the extreme. some of the "remedies" are also potentially dangerous.

Likewise, the idea that candida overgrowth in the gut or elsewhere in the body causes a multitude of vague symptoms is totally unfounded. Candida is normally present in small amounts in some parts of the body, and is harmless. It may overgrow if the other bacteria that normally keep it in check are wiped out (commonly occurs with antibiotics) at which point it causes annoying things like thrush in the mouth or vaginitis. Still doesn't cause the long list of symptoms that several fad books aqnd web sites (most of them selling something) have attributed to it. In immunsuppressed people, such overgrowth can occur even without antibiotics. Candida in the blood stream (candidal sepsis) is virtually nonexistant in immunocompetent persons and is a life threatening condition.

And "leaky gut" is indeed not a real medical condition.

The OP indicates he suffers from "sugar or sweet cravings, gas, bloating, fatigue, low energy, allergies, sinusitis, acid reflux, hormonal imbalances, brain fog, depression and arthritis (sic)". elsewhere he indicates he is also overwieght.

The combo of cravings for sweets, low energy/brain fog/depression are suggestive of abnormal glucose metabolism; together with a weight problem, metabolic syndrome (also referred to as insulin resistance) needs to be considered. . i suggest you get a basic check up inclusive of fasting blood sugar and a lipid panel to see if this is the case. And avoid processed carbohydrates as much as possible.

Allergies/sinusitis are another matter altogether.

As would be "hormonal imbalance" and arthritis, but note that these cannot be slef-diagnosed.

There are a lot of web sites and self proclaimed "alternative" practioners out there and a lot of fads that sweep through, al;ways making the same claim (essentially, that every possible symptom has a single cause, treatable by XYZ). Buyer beware.

[Sheryl]

Since this is clearly a health related matter it is moved into the Health Forum. please note health forum specific rules (pinned above) when posting.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

forgot to add

Dairy contains Lactose which is a disaccharide sugar.

Most people are "Lactose Intolerant" to varying degrees.

Lactose Intolerance means inability to digest Lactose.

When a sugar sits around in the warm gut undigested it tends to ferment.

Fermentation explained

This is well established.

Lactose Fermentation search

I understand fermentation but can you please explain what it is that 'ferments' the lactose in the gut. It cannot 'ferment without some intervention by, possibly anaerobic bacteria You are wrong, most people are NOT intolerant to lactose, it's an evolutionary adaptation to northern climes, Asians tend to be lactose intolerant. don't say 'most people unless you have evidence.

When will you provide any evidence for your claims or are you just rambling on ?

Lactose Intolerance Wiki

"Most mammals normally become lactose intolerant when they are young; however, some human populations have developed lactase persistence, where lactase production continues into adulthood. It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood.[2] The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from as little as 5% in northern Europe, up to 71% for Sicily, to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries.[3]"

I said

""Most people are "Lactose Intolerant" to varying degrees.""

I think that holds pretty well. 71% have decreased lactase activity so dairy lactose are potentially problematic for digestion, gut irritation and fermentation. Pasteurized and processed dairy foods have their lactase enzyme destroyed by heating and that compounds the underlying decrease in lactase activity in mature humans.

There are plenty of yeasts in the digestive tract to ferment sugars. Fermentation is present when there is gas and bloating.

Alcohol is the product of fermentation and that is very unfavorable for insulin/metabolic disorders as well as general gut health.

[msg362]

Alternative medicine therapies

Many practitioners of alternative medicine use the term Candida to refer to a complex with broad spectrum of symptoms, the majority of which center around gastrointestinal distress, rashes, sore gums and other miscellaneous symptoms. Candida is accorded responsibility for symptoms as specific as hay fever, as vague as "brain fog" and as common as weight gain or flatulence. These symptoms are attributed by some alternative medicine practitioners to the "overgrowth" of intestinal candida albicans, which they claim leads to the spread of the yeast to other parts of the body via the digestive tract and bloodstream.^[16]

Use of the term Candida in alternative medicine to describe this complex is unassociated with its use in clinical medicine to refer to the fungus that causes vaginal yeast infections and thrush.^[9][10] This can be confusing for patients. No studies have proved that having intestinal candidiasis causes any symptoms of illness.^[9][10]

To treat what they refer to as Candida, some alternative medicine practitioners have recommended avoiding antibiotics, birth control pills, and foods that are high in sugar or yeast, ostensibly to "eliminate excess yeast" in the body. However, there is little clinically valid evidence that these "candida cleanse" treatments treat intestinal candidiasis effectively, or cure any of the symptoms claimed by the proponents of the hypothesis.^[9][10]

The probiotic Saccharomyces boulardii is undergoing much research as of late, demonstrating its ability to diminish levels of Candida in the body.^[17] This is hence one of the specific probiotic strains often recommended alongside a more general probiotic, for anyone on a Candida cleanse or Candida diet.

From Wilkipaedia, enough said I think, end of story.

[Sheryl]

A flamefest has been deleted in its entirety.

Read the Health Forum specific rules...there is zero tolerance for flaming and any further such will result in official warnings and/or suspension of posting rights.

Please also note the Forum specific rules regarding debates about modern vs. "alternative" treatments, and about quackery.

"... the Health forum is, by its nature, a place where people seek information or help of a personal nature, often in the context of a serious and stressful problem. It is absolutely essential that they are able to do so without fear of ridicule or judgment. Forum rules regarding flaming etc will therefore be enforced with particular strictness. ...

2. Quackery and Misinformation: Posters should pay particular attention to forum rule # 1) “You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false”....

This will be strictly applied with respect to presentation as fact any statements which are clearly contrary to medical science. A distinction is made in this regard between statements of opinion/reports of personal experience and statements of fact.

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Lastly, aggressive attempts to persuade other members to either adapt or abandon alternative vs. modern forms of treatment will not be permitted. Experience has shown that this invariably leads to arguments and flame fests that serve no useful purpose. "

[LordDude]

A positive Candida diagnosis can be very difficult to obtain and I'm not sure any labs in Chiang Mai are equipped to test for it (but I may be wrong there). I used a German laboratory who sent me a swab and sample kit that I sent back to them and results were with me in a couple of weeks. Turns out that I had aspergillus niger in the gut and not candida, but symptoms were almost identical and as they're both fungi, treatment is the same.

I took the following every day based on their purported anti-fungal properties:

Garlic (be careful because it's high in sulphur and may upset your stomach)

Turmeric

Extra virgin coconut oil by the teaspoon (available at Rimping, Aden Shop and others)

Apple Cider Vingear (Rimping, Aden etc)

Neem powder (available from the Indian stall at Warorot Market

Houttuynia Cordata a.k.a. Yaa Plu Kao (available in capsules from the shop at the Vegetarian Society on Mahidol Road and also from Aden I think and maybe from Suan Pak)

Asiatic Pennywort (you can buy the raw herb from markets)

Pysillum Husk (GNC have it)

I wouldn't trust colloidal silver because it's very overpriced here and as there's little in the way of quality control in Thailand, you have absolutely no way of guaranteeing its potency or PPM.

Additionally I followed a rigid diet alkaline-based diet (fungi thrive in an acidic environment) with no fruit, very few carbohydrates (and then only complex ones) and lots and lots of vegetables. I don't eat meat or dairy anyway but since these both promote acidity in the body, they are best kept to small quantities. Nuts (except peanuts) are okay but avoid buying them by the kilo from markets where they've been sat and had chance to develop mold.

Hope all that helps.

[fullwhenempty]

'Leaky gut' is another name for intestinal permeability. There are plenty of references to both on PubMed. The Lactulose-Mannitol Test check for intestinal permeability. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10896065

Statements such as 'There have been no studies' or 'No studies have shown..' or 'there is little evidence' are often used to dismiss alternative views. These statements mislead. They don't actually disprove anything. Nor do they show that studies have been done by alternative systems, such as in India, where many studies are published in Hindi and not translated into English. What western research laboratory is going to upset its corporate paymasters by publishing results that harm its interests?

The gut is highly complex and not fully understood by medicine. There are hundreds of different bacteria in the gut, many not identified. So how can anyone claim to be an authority? I only have to look at nature to see that fungi can attack a plant or tree if it is weak. What happens to a tree when you break off a branch or cut the bark? It's defences are breached. Are we not biological organisms too? Equally susceptible to bacteria, fungi and parasites, if our defences are breached. Or do the laws of nature somehow not apply?

When I see Colloidal Silver advertised, it is often with the following sentence.. 'In 1929 over 5 million prescriptions for silver-based products were issued in the United States alone.'

and...

'..nanosilver in the form of colloidal silver has been used for more than 100 years and has been registered as a biocidal material in the United States since 1954. Fifty-three percent of the EPA-registered biocidal silver products likely contain nanosilver.' http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21218770

This study mentions success with Colloidal Silver against Candida... http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21756192 and this one.. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19698988

Another study states 'Silver nanoparticles (SNPs) are being increasingly used in many consumer products like textile fabrics, cosmetics, washing machines, food and drug products owing to its excellent antimicrobial properties.'

I've attended a few Detox or 'cleanses' with groups. So you see a variety of results. Sometimes what is being eliminated during colon cleanses is worth mention. One lady spent virtually her whole 10 day cleanse, lying in bed, purportedly because the 'die-off' was making her tired. She felt extremely tired the whole time. She had suffered with depression and lethargy for 12 years and no Dr or pill was able to help her. It wasn't until she completed the 'sugar-free' fast, that she reported feeling "Fantastic" and went on to complete two more fasts with friends. So what caused her lethargy? I don't know, but I do know what I saw coming out of her. White stringy strands of what was said to be fungus, being eliminated during her bowel cleanses. She was taking Colloidal Silver as part of her program. I've also met another lady with similar symptoms who took CS on a 5-day fast which she did at home and she reported feeling recovered afterwards. She had tried a fast before less successfully.

Now I don't know whether these examples are due to Candida or not but its easy to understand why the connection is made. If there's a more logical explanation please provide it.

[fullwhenempty]

A positive Candida diagnosis can be very difficult to obtain and I'm not sure any labs in Chiang Mai are equipped to test for it (but I may be wrong there). I used a German laboratory who sent me a swab and sample kit that I sent back to them and results were with me in a couple of weeks. Turns out that I had aspergillus niger in the gut and not candida, but symptoms were almost identical and as they're both fungi, treatment is the same.

I took the following every day based on their purported anti-fungal properties:

Garlic (be careful because it's high in sulphur and may upset your stomach)

Turmeric

Extra virgin coconut oil by the teaspoon (available at Rimping, Aden Shop and others)

Apple Cider Vingear (Rimping, Aden etc)

Neem powder (available from the Indian stall at Warorot Market

Houttuynia Cordata a.k.a. Yaa Plu Kao (available in capsules from the shop at the Vegetarian Society on Mahidol Road and also from Aden I think and maybe from Suan Pak)

Asiatic Pennywort (you can buy the raw herb from markets)

Pysillum Husk (GNC have it)

I wouldn't trust colloidal silver because it's very overpriced here and as there's little in the way of quality control in Thailand, you have absolutely no way of guaranteeing its potency or PPM.

Additionally I followed a rigid diet alkaline-based diet (fungi thrive in an acidic environment) with no fruit, very few carbohydrates (and then only complex ones) and lots and lots of vegetables. I don't eat meat or dairy anyway but since these both promote acidity in the body, they are best kept to small quantities. Nuts (except peanuts) are okay but avoid buying them by the kilo from markets where they've been sat and had chance to develop mold.

Hope all that helps.

Fascinating post. Can you say what made you send off for a test? You didn't actually say if it worked or how long it took. I think with such a strict regime you've cured every ailment you've had.

You also seem to have decided on a kitchen-sink approach. i.e. thrown everything at it. Was this your own idea?

Pennywort is used a lot by the massage ladies. It's also known as 'Bua Bok'. They sell the leaves and bottled juice, sweetened, in local markets. Thais also eat alongside their meals.

Yaa Plu Kao is not in my Thai Herbal. I read now it's used in TCM and is a gardeners nightmare. So, I'll resist planting it.

Neem is easy to find by the road. Grab some leaves dry them out, put them in your coffee grinder and bob's your uncle. Likewise Turmeric Root. I know someone who used Neem to replace their Warfarin. The Thai Doctor, to my surprise, approved. But you DO need work with your Doctor. Since Warfarin is rat poison I know which option I would go for.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Those are some interesting local choices for herbs and supplies.

It's a very interesting subject. I don't have it myself but have studied it a bit for my past therapy practice and its interesting to hear what has worked for some people.

It seems like the most successful longterm strategies are cutting the fuel by limiting or eliminating sugars, starches and various types of problem digesting foods like gluten, grains, dairy.

A lot of people swear by the Hydrogen Peroxide H202. It's basically a water molecule with an extra oxygen atom.

Its said by proponents that various body processes like Vit C metabolism and friendly bacteria like Lactobacillus produce minute quantities of H202. Some claim the friendly bacteria produce H202 to control virus and harmful bacterial activity.

The protocol basically involves a small number of food grade H202 drops to a quantity of drinking water.

Seems also popular with some athletes because it delivers more oxygen to the system and not considered a performance enhancing drug as its not detectable anyway.

It seems like it brings out the haters but might be worth considering and researching.

It would seem if adding extra oxygen to the system is helpful then vigorous exercise and deep breathing could also produce a similar result.

The medical supply places here in Chiang Mai sell H202 it but might have to order it for delivery a few days later.

Don't expect Pharmaceutical companies to embrace it because they can't patent it. Some searches will yield some information about it being popular around 100 years ago. No idea if those are accurate or indicative of efficacy.

[Latindancer]

For the record:

With the exception of probiotics and possiobly avoidance of certain foods if the individual is intolerant/allergic to them, the remedies bandied about in this thread are not accepted medical practice and the supposed mechanism of action is junk science in the extreme. some of the "remedies" are also potentially dangerous.

Likewise, the idea that candida overgrowth in the gut or elsewhere in the body causes a multitude of vague symptoms is totally unfounded. Candida is normally present in small amounts in some parts of the body, and is harmless. It may overgrow if the other bacteria that normally keep it in check are wiped out (commonly occurs with antibiotics) at which point it causes annoying things like thrush in the mouth or vaginitis. Still doesn't cause the long list of symptoms that several fad books aqnd web sites (most of them selling something) have attributed to it. In immunsuppressed people, such overgrowth can occur even without antibiotics. Candida in the blood stream (candidal sepsis) is virtually nonexistant in immunocompetent persons and is a life threatening condition.

And "leaky gut" is indeed not a real medical condition.

The OP indicates he suffers from "sugar or sweet cravings, gas, bloating, fatigue, low energy, allergies, sinusitis, acid reflux, hormonal imbalances, brain fog, depression and arthritis (sic)". elsewhere he indicates he is also overwieght.

The combo of cravings for sweets, low energy/brain fog/depression are suggestive of abnormal glucose metabolism; together with a weight problem, metabolic syndrome (also referred to as insulin resistance) needs to be considered. . i suggest you get a basic check up inclusive of fasting blood sugar and a lipid panel to see if this is the case. And avoid processed carbohydrates as much as possible.

Allergies/sinusitis are another matter altogether.

As would be "hormonal imbalance" and arthritis, but note that these cannot be slef-diagnosed.

There are a lot of web sites and self proclaimed "alternative" practioners out there and a lot of fads that sweep through, al;ways making the same claim (essentially, that every possible symptom has a single cause, treatable by XYZ). Buyer beware.

Sheryl's post here is quite sensible. However if you are still determined to treat yourself for gut Candida, be aware that although antibiotics should be taken very carefully and selectively, Nystatin is usually prescribed for Candida. It is the one antibiotic which I would take without a second thought, as almost none of it is absorbed by the body.........it goes straight through, having killed the Candida.

After this you could then take all the probiotics you like to repopulate your gut with beneficial bacteria. Google Kombucha + wikipedia and try it too.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

a lot of people like aloe vera gel etc as a drink to help heal the gut lining.

That's a good cheap local remedy to add to the above mentioned.

[msg362]

For the record:

With the exception of probiotics and possiobly avoidance of certain foods if the individual is intolerant/allergic to them, the remedies bandied about in this thread are not accepted medical practice and the supposed mechanism of action is junk science in the extreme. some of the "remedies" are also potentially dangerous.

Likewise, the idea that candida overgrowth in the gut or elsewhere in the body causes a multitude of vague symptoms is totally unfounded. Candida is normally present in small amounts in some parts of the body, and is harmless. It may overgrow if the other bacteria that normally keep it in check are wiped out (commonly occurs with antibiotics) at which point it causes annoying things like thrush in the mouth or vaginitis. Still doesn't cause the long list of symptoms that several fad books aqnd web sites (most of them selling something) have attributed to it. In immunsuppressed people, such overgrowth can occur even without antibiotics. Candida in the blood stream (candidal sepsis) is virtually nonexistant in immunocompetent persons and is a life threatening condition.

And "leaky gut" is indeed not a real medical condition.

The OP indicates he suffers from "sugar or sweet cravings, gas, bloating, fatigue, low energy, allergies, sinusitis, acid reflux, hormonal imbalances, brain fog, depression and arthritis (sic)". elsewhere he indicates he is also overwieght.

The combo of cravings for sweets, low energy/brain fog/depression are suggestive of abnormal glucose metabolism; together with a weight problem, metabolic syndrome (also referred to as insulin resistance) needs to be considered. . i suggest you get a basic check up inclusive of fasting blood sugar and a lipid panel to see if this is the case. And avoid processed carbohydrates as much as possible.

Allergies/sinusitis are another matter altogether.

As would be "hormonal imbalance" and arthritis, but note that these cannot be slef-diagnosed.

There are a lot of web sites and self proclaimed "alternative" practioners out there and a lot of fads that sweep through, al;ways making the same claim (essentially, that every possible symptom has a single cause, treatable by XYZ). Buyer beware.

Sheryl's post here is quite sensible. However if you are still determined to treat yourself for gut Candida, be aware that although antibiotics should be taken very carefully and selectively, Nystatin is usually prescribed for Candida. It is the one antibiotic which I would take without a second thought, as almost none of it is absorbed by the body.........it goes straight through, having killed the Candida.

After this you could then take all the probiotics you like to repopulate your gut with beneficial bacteria. Google Kombucha + wikipedia and try it too.

Yes agree. BTW taking a few drops of H2O2 in water will probably be to low a concentration to have any disinfectant effect and Please do understand, it won't add oxygen to your body!!! If the OP really does have Candida, the Nystatin followed by probiotics is probably the way to go But ask a qualified doctor!!!!!!.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

"Hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced in organisms as a by-product of oxidative metabolism. Nearly all living things (specifically, all obligate and facultative aerobes) possess enzymes known as catalyse peroxidases, which harmlessly and catalytically decompose low concentrations of hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

No idea where you get the idea H202 would NOT release oxygen into the digestive system.

Any references?

[msg362]

"Hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced in organisms as a by-product of oxidative metabolism. Nearly all living things (specifically, all obligate and facultative aerobes) possess enzymes known as catalyse peroxidases, which harmlessly and catalytically decompose low concentrations of hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen."

http://en.wikipedia....drogen_peroxide

No idea where you get the idea H202 would NOT release oxygen into the digestive system.

Any references?

Standard chemistry, taught all over the world.

it's an oxidising agent, each molecule has only one atom of oxygen, the gas oxygen has 2! It's like saying Bleach is like salt. In addition, h2o2 would never reach the large intestine, it would hit the stomach first. It's the oxidising properties of both that give them their disinfectant qualities, but only in sufficient concentrations as to be hazardous to anyone ingesting them

BTW in the blood, haemoglobin is responsible for transporting oxygen, it is the essential limiting factor. , The contents of the colon are essentially anaerobic, and necessarily so, even with saturated oxyhaemoglobin, there will be no effect on the colon contents.

Maybe read this?

Enough, we will never agree so why not stop?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

"Hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced in organisms as a by-product of oxidative metabolism. Nearly all living things (specifically, all obligate and facultative aerobes) possess enzymes known as catalyse peroxidases, which harmlessly and catalytically decompose low concentrations of hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen."

http://en.wikipedia....drogen_peroxide

No idea where you get the idea H202 would NOT release oxygen into the digestive system.

Any references?

Standard chemistry, taught all over the world.

it's an oxidising agent, each molecule has only one atom of oxygen, the gas oxygen has 2! It's like saying Bleach is like salt. In addition, h2o2 would never reach the large intestine, it would hit the stomach first. It's the oxidising properties of both that give them their disinfectant qualities, but only in sufficient concentrations as to be hazardous to anyone ingesting them

BTW in the blood, haemoglobin is responsible for transporting oxygen, it is the essential limiting factor. , The contents of the colon are essentially anaerobic, and necessarily so, even with saturated oxyhaemoglobin, there will be no effect on the colon contents.

Maybe read this?

Enough, we will never agree so why not stop?

First of all that link has nothing to do with H202. Why offer such a vague and obtuse link?

Second. The H202 protocol is to consume the solution on an empty stomach which would quickly get the solution to the small intestine. The properties of the chyme and bacterial environment of the small intestine would have an effect on what happens in the large intestine. Any evidence to the contrary?

Where is it ever concluded that only the large intestine is the domain of fungi and yeast? Excluded the small intestine?

Third your trying to limit H202 effects to oxidation and side stepping the enzyme reaction of peroxidation.

Have you changed your position already from H202 therapy is wildly dangerous to now it's benign and doesn't do anything?

Aren't there a lot of parameters that would affect this analysis?

Beginning H202 solution strength?

Purity of water medium to avoid early reaction with suspended organic particles?

length of time from H202 addition to water before consumption?

Resulting PPM strength of consumed solution?

Stomach contents?

Frequency of doses?

Duration of doses?

I notice the protocol of doses begin a few drops and progress to up to 20 drops. I was in error about the doses only being 1 or 2 drops. That was a starting level.

I am agnostic on whether H202 is effective for XYZ but unsupported close minded opinions offer little insight.

There is a heck of a lot of research at Pubmed on H202. It's a lot to sort thru and much of it over my technical level.

Still it's a very interesting subject and I am challenged to understand why it works for a lot of people.

Edited July 26, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie