Mob Rule Disguised As Democracy; Thai Opinion

[Babcock]

If the Red Shirts continue to have influence over Thai politics, especially if it ever starts to come down to specific decisions politicians should make by themselves; then Thailand will be a mobocracy. As long as the elected officials make the decisions they make all by themselves and the peoples' power is to vote for them or their party again or not, then it's a democracy. Ignoring the minority has nothing to do with it. If Thailand is in fact a functioning democracy then even "ignored" people get a vote. Maybe the result of that is what we just saw in the last election.

What does 'lobbyist' do in America? (nobody elect)

What does 'political party' do? (nobody elect)

How are reds different to any other 'pressure group'?

The red's slogan was and is "Double standards."

My wife's friend who works for the kings daughter looking after autistic children and other severely disabled children. Well she just had a meeting with Yingluk over funding and she was highly impressed by Yingluk. we may get the chance to meet her.

All you democrat saps what are you left with? Abhisit did nothing. The democrats never do anything except repress and stuff their pockets

Yes the reds are serious.Serious about double standards, corrupt courts, corrupt military, corrupt police, corrupt burocracy.

As probably very few of you have been to one of their rallies. I remember reading on this board the Reds were gathering in Silom outside Bangkok bank. The general view on here they would all be drunk.

I went as I lived there and not one bottle of course just a lot of very serious and resolute people. No youth of course. I think they were all off playing video games. "Brainwashed."

People want change.

Remember the sixties?

[DumFarang]

If the Red Shirts continue to have influence over Thai politics, especially if it ever starts to come down to specific decisions politicians should make by themselves; then Thailand will be a mobocracy. As long as the elected officials make the decisions they make all by themselves and the peoples' power is to vote for them or their party again or not, then it's a democracy. Ignoring the minority has nothing to do with it. If Thailand is in fact a functioning democracy then even "ignored" people get a vote. Maybe the result of that is what we just saw in the last election.

What does 'lobbyist' do in America? (nobody elect)

What does 'political party' do? (nobody elect)

How are reds different to any other 'pressure group'?

The red's slogan was and is "Double standards."

My wife's friend who works for the kings daughter looking after autistic children and other severely disabled children. Well she just had a meeting with Yingluk over funding and she was highly impressed by Yingluk. we may get the chance to meet her.

All you democrat saps what are you left with? Abhisit did nothing. The democrats never do anything except repress and stuff their pockets

Yes the reds are serious.Serious about double standards, corrupt courts, corrupt military, corrupt police, corrupt burocracy.

As probably very few of you have been to one of their rallies. I remember reading on this board the Reds were gathering in Silom outside Bangkok bank. The general view on here they would all be drunk.

I went as I lived there and not one bottle of course just a lot of very serious and resolute people. No youth of course. I think they were all off playing video games. "Brainwashed."

People want change.

Remember the sixties?

This is getting off topic, but I just have to say: sorry, just b/c someone's an impressive person doesn't validate whatever they are doing. Newsflash, almost anybody who manages to get to the type of position Yingluck finds herself in is going to be an impressive person. After all it's an amazing accomplishment managing to become something like a PM, despite her brother's powerful strings he so willingly pulls. It doesn't matter, it's impressive anyway! Most people never manage to do such a thing even if powerful people help them out.

But, at the end of the day she, just like anybody else, will be judged by accomplishments not their aura of impressiveness. For that we must wait and see.

[djlest]

Why not take a step back from it all - and sum things up...

The uneducated and Corrupt are in charge of Thailand now - backed by the uneducated

As opposed to the slightly Well educated yet corrupt Dems...backed by the rich and slightly more educated

One side ransacked an airport and held tourists hostage, then stuck their own non elected puppet in charge

The other side hijacked Bangkok for 3 months and burnt the city down in the name of 'a peaceful protest'

The elites look down on the Poor and uneducated

The uneducated look in disgust at the rich and elite

There is no love here - the only way forward is to bridge the gap...

the uneducated need more education so they can actually think for themselves, instead of follow the herd of what propaganda tells them

And the Dems should seriously consider being less selfish and Actually assist the poor and uneducated and maybe this mess would never have happened.

SOM NAM NAA

[DumFarang]

Why not take a step back from it all - and sum things up...

The uneducated and Corrupt are in charge of Thailand now - backed by the uneducated

As opposed to the slightly Well educated yet corrupt Dems...backed by the rich and slightly more educated

One side ransacked an airport and held tourists hostage, then stuck their own non elected puppet in charge

The other side hijacked Bangkok for 3 months and burnt the city down in the name of 'a peaceful protest'

The elites look down on the Poor and uneducated

The uneducated look in disgust at the rich and elite

There is no love here - the only way forward is to bridge the gap...

the uneducated need more education so they can actually think for themselves, instead of follow the herd of what propaganda tells them

And the Dems should seriously consider being less selfish and Actually assist the poor and uneducated and maybe this mess would never have happened.

SOM NAM NAA

But if the uneducated were to learn to think for themselves then how would we, the real victims, get by without rows of vendors selling exactly the same things?

[DP25]

I went as I lived there and not one bottle of course just a lot of very serious and resolute people. No youth of course. I think they were all off playing video games. "Brainwashed."

No youth because they don't generally buy in to the rubbish that the reds are spouting, and can see it as propaganda designed to enrich a corrupt few at the expense of everyone. The patronage system that the red movement is based on, and is designed to entrench, is strongest among older people. Quite the opposite of brainwashed, they don't see the point in blindly supporting the same corrupt feudal leaders who have ruled rural areas for decades and kept them underdeveloped in order to enrich themselves.

Edited July 29, 2011 by DP25

[geriatrickid]

As the foreigners weigh in against the PTP, harrumphing against imagined corruption from a government that isn't even in office,, Greece, a democratic nation and EU member is into its 2nd bailout and has the potential to inflict heavy damage to the EU. Greece is considered one of the most corrupt EU ntaions and a nation where there is rampant tax evasion and a history of dishonest government fiscal policy. And yet, no one is getting themselves up in quite the same lather.

Today, Jefferson County, Alabama is on the verge of bankruptcy. Multiple senior officials are accused or convicted of corruption in a series of acts that may give the world the largest municipal level bankruptcy ever - $3billion US. and yet no one dishes out the same disdain as is reserved for the PTP. The US government is locked in a series of political battles that could push the world into an economic crisis and see a downgrade of US debt, and yet Thailand's PTP is singled out as the spawn of Satan. Iceland gave the world a quasi government sanctioned bank fraud that will cost billions of Euros with the beautiful people of Iceland refusing to accept responsibility, Nothing anyone has ever done in Thailand can compare to that act of deceit. The perceived failings of the PTP are nothing compared to the wide scale corruption and dysfunctional governments that currently exist in the west and elsewhere in Asia. Thailand has serious problems, but they are nothing compared to some farang lands.

Edited July 29, 2011 by geriatrickid

[TAWP]

You seem to have a problem with separating the number of people who voted PT from the number of seats they won. They won the majority of seats but they were elected by a minority of the people.

Also how many of the votes they received were for them and not just against the Dems.

They may have the vote in the house but it is not the slam dunk you seem to think it is.

You talk of a mandate they got. That is what is yet to be seen already they are backing down on their promises. These promises were a lot of the reason they got elected. It remains to be seen how that will work out.

How long do you think they would hold together if Yingluck was to refuse to do as her brother wishes and reign the red shirts in? It is not a easy task ahead of her far from a slam dunk much as you would like it to be.

So in virtually no country does anyone have a mandate to govern according to your thinking. Plkuralistic democracy is about seats. They have over half and about 48% of the vote. That is huge by any standard. The guys in the us congreess currently having a mandate to not raise tax were electded on a turnout of under 50%. Does that mean they have no right to do waht they do? Blair and Thatcher never got anywhere near 48% and they both governed in a way they wanted and were always seen as hhaving a huge mandate. real world poltics

Government is about seats, but claiming the 'majority' of the population voted for them just isn't true. Don't try to muddle the waters.

What we have here is potentially a government supported by 44.3% of the voters that use offers of a place at the table to some smaller parties and then have a 'stable' majority and then could, according to you, propose a new law that makes it legal to murder people that vote for a selection of other parties -- and that would be alright in your view since they are the majority and we cannot complain about this.

That isn't democracy, that is the 'dictatorship of the majority'.

There is a very important difference.

[rubl]

As the foreigners weigh in against the PTP, harrumphing against imagined corruption from a government that isn't even in office,, Greece, a democratic nation and EU member is into its 2nd bailout and has the potential to inflict heavy damage to the EU. Greece is considered one of the most corrupt EU ntaions and a nation where there is rampant tax evasion and a history of dishonest government fiscal policy. And yet, no one is getting themselves up in quite the same lather.

Taxpayers in the Euro zone would disagree with you on this. Of course a 'Thailand news' forum is hardly the place to discuss the Greeks even when they bear gifts

[TAWP]

Mmmm actually elected governments with a majority can do what they want as long as they do it through the constitutional system and not illegally.

Highlighting that you think a majority government has the right to do anything. As long as they vote about it first. Mugabe would be proud.

[DumFarang]

As the foreigners weigh in against the PTP, harrumphing against imagined corruption from a government that isn't even in office,, Greece, a democratic nation and EU member is into its 2nd bailout and has the potential to inflict heavy damage to the EU. Greece is considered one of the most corrupt EU ntaions and a nation where there is rampant tax evasion and a history of dishonest government fiscal policy. And yet, no one is getting themselves up in quite the same lather.

Today, Jefferson County, Alabama is on the verge of bankruptcy. Multiple senior officials are accused or convicted of corruption in a series of acts that may give the world the largest municipal level bankruptcy ever - $3billion US. and yet no one dishes out the same disdain as is reserved for the PTP. The US government is locked in a series of political battles that could push the world into an economic crisis and see a downgrade of US debt, and yet Thailand's PTP is singled out as the spawn of Satan. Iceland gave the world a quasi government sanctioned bank fraud that will cost billions of Euros with the beautiful people of Iceland refusing to accept responsibility, Nothing anyone has ever done in Thailand can compare to that act of deceit. The perceived failings of the PTP are nothing compared to the wide scale corruption and dysfunctional governments that currently exist in the west and elsewhere in Asia. Thailand has serious problems, but they are nothing compared to some farang lands.

Obviously all valid points, but you're crashing the party. We're talking about Thailand on a thread about Thailand which is on a website primarily devoted to the goings on in Thailand. Do you walk into board meetings that are discussing problems that aren't important enough for your tastes and tell them to stop discussing those particular problems? No. Do you eavesdrop on conversations in restaurants or pubs and if somebody is complaining about something that's not a major world issue do you correct them for not having important enough problems? No.

This is what the people on this thread are choosing to talk about, and it also happens to be on topic, something you might want to familiarize yourself with.

[hammered]

You seem to have a problem with separating the number of people who voted PT from the number of seats they won. They won the majority of seats but they were elected by a minority of the people.

Also how many of the votes they received were for them and not just against the Dems.

They may have the vote in the house but it is not the slam dunk you seem to think it is.

You talk of a mandate they got. That is what is yet to be seen already they are backing down on their promises. These promises were a lot of the reason they got elected. It remains to be seen how that will work out.

How long do you think they would hold together if Yingluck was to refuse to do as her brother wishes and reign the red shirts in? It is not a easy task ahead of her far from a slam dunk much as you would like it to be.

So in virtually no country does anyone have a mandate to govern according to your thinking. Plkuralistic democracy is about seats. They have over half and about 48% of the vote. That is huge by any standard. The guys in the us congreess currently having a mandate to not raise tax were electded on a turnout of under 50%. Does that mean they have no right to do waht they do? Blair and Thatcher never got anywhere near 48% and they both governed in a way they wanted and were always seen as hhaving a huge mandate. real world poltics

Government is about seats, but claiming the 'majority' of the population voted for them just isn't true. Don't try to muddle the waters.

What we have here is potentially a government supported by 44.3% of the voters that use offers of a place at the table to some smaller parties and then have a 'stable' majority and then could, according to you, propose a new law that makes it legal to murder people that vote for a selection of other parties -- and that would be alright in your view since they are the majority and we cannot complain about this.

That isn't democracy, that is the 'dictatorship of the majority'.

There is a very important difference.

It is not dicatatorship if done constitutionally and legally as I said. There are checks and balances to deal with illegal action and to provide the protection a country dems necessary to protect minorities etc. If peopel think anb abuse is occuring they can go to court or an ombudsman, the media, demonstrate and at the next election vote a different way. All these are possible today in Thailand. It hasnt become a dictatorship but actually the people have chosen a party to lead a government

I also siad they had a very clear mandate by any standard (of pluaralistic government) and certainly a far bigger one than Blair, Thatcher or Boehners republicans came anywhere near getting in terms of popular vote if such things are relevant which in pluaralistic systems like Thailand, or the US or UK are not. That is not muddying anything. It is statement of how democracy and government work. We should also not forget that the last government was formed of just about every small party and a bunch of defectors from the largest party, but technically they still had the right to govern etc. Those that look at such things as mandate would have seen theirs as very weak, but they themsleves were no shrinking violets when it came to controversial policies.

Let the incoming goevrnment govern in the way they want as long as it is constitutional and legal after all it has been chosen by the people and chosen resoundingly.

[hammered]

Mmmm actually elected governments with a majority can do what they want as long as they do it through the constitutional system and not illegally.

Highlighting that you think a majority government has the right to do anything. As long as they vote about it first. Mugabe would be proud.

As long as they do it constitutionally and legally as I said, yes. Thailand like other countries has protections in place such as courts, media, constitution senate. And people have the constitutionally enshrined right to demonstrate and they can vote a different way at the next election. That is no different from any other democratic country akthough checks and balance and seperation of powers vary from state to state.

It has nothing to do with Mugabe so please dont try to distract things.

[jayboy]

Mmmm actually elected governments with a majority can do what they want as long as they do it through the constitutional system and not illegally.

Highlighting that you think a majority government has the right to do anything. As long as they vote about it first. Mugabe would be proud.

The odd thing is that people of this persuasion were arguing on the forum that the last government could command a parliamentary majority and therefore could legitimately impose its will.The current government has a much more convincing mandate and what is more lacks the corrupt and murky deals associated with its predecessor..and yet we hear mindless talk about Mugabe.Doesn't compute.

[OzMick]

The PTP definition of reconciliation is multi-faceted:

Firstly there is complete exoneration of the red-shirts (We have done nothing wrong!) which should take pace before the end of the year according to PTP MP Mrs Arisman, who expects hubby home by Xmas, in time to take up his place as Minister of Propaganda.

Second is the complete absolution of anybody related to the Shinawatra clan for all crimes past, present, currently being planned, or yet to be conceived. k.Thaksin will return as Yingluk's special adviser (for this term) and will sit in parliament slightly behind and to her left, his right arm out of sight. A special law will be passed making it treasonous to claim that you can see his lips moving while she speaks.

Third is the prosecution of all MPs of the Democrat and BJT parties for crimes against humanity the Red Shirt movement whilst carrying out their legitimate duties of office. This is not considered to be an excuse as the legitimate duties of office are seen by PTP as mere inconveniences whilst carrying out their more venal aspirations. A law will be passed re-instating capital punishment - hung, drawn and quartered is being considered, but considered by the Red Shirts to be too mild.

Fourth is removal from office and public denigration of all Army and DSI officers, public servants and journalists who assisted or supported the Democrat coalition while in office; very similar to the treatment of Nazi collaborators after the liberation of European countries. I believe this has already started.

Fifth (but not least, and particularly apt) the Red Shirts will become the semi-autonomous, semi-official Political Police with the duties of suppressing dissent and non-Shinawatra thought, and the harassment of those opposing PTP and Red-shirt policies.

I certainly hope they put the dsi etc on trial. Abhisit will probably flee to UK.

Another poster suggested that I should put a big red "SATIRE" on that post - then along comes a red supporter and proves that it really wasn't necessary to do so. Apart from doing their job, exactly WHAT do you have against the DSI?

[hammered]

Mmmm actually elected governments with a majority can do what they want as long as they do it through the constitutional system and not illegally.

Highlighting that you think a majority government has the right to do anything. As long as they vote about it first. Mugabe would be proud.

The odd thing is that people of this persuasion were arguing on the forum that the last government could command a parliamentary majority and therefore could legitimately impose its will.The current government has a much more convincing mandate and what is more lacks the corrupt and murky deals associated with its predecessor..and yet we hear mindless talk about Mugabe.Doesn't compute.

Precisely.

[DumFarang]

The PTP definition of reconciliation is multi-faceted:

Firstly there is complete exoneration of the red-shirts (We have done nothing wrong!) which should take pace before the end of the year according to PTP MP Mrs Arisman, who expects hubby home by Xmas, in time to take up his place as Minister of Propaganda.

Second is the complete absolution of anybody related to the Shinawatra clan for all crimes past, present, currently being planned, or yet to be conceived. k.Thaksin will return as Yingluk's special adviser (for this term) and will sit in parliament slightly behind and to her left, his right arm out of sight. A special law will be passed making it treasonous to claim that you can see his lips moving while she speaks.

Third is the prosecution of all MPs of the Democrat and BJT parties for crimes against humanity the Red Shirt movement whilst carrying out their legitimate duties of office. This is not considered to be an excuse as the legitimate duties of office are seen by PTP as mere inconveniences whilst carrying out their more venal aspirations. A law will be passed re-instating capital punishment - hung, drawn and quartered is being considered, but considered by the Red Shirts to be too mild.

Fourth is removal from office and public denigration of all Army and DSI officers, public servants and journalists who assisted or supported the Democrat coalition while in office; very similar to the treatment of Nazi collaborators after the liberation of European countries. I believe this has already started.

Fifth (but not least, and particularly apt) the Red Shirts will become the semi-autonomous, semi-official Political Police with the duties of suppressing dissent and non-Shinawatra thought, and the harassment of those opposing PTP and Red-shirt policies.

I certainly hope they put the dsi etc on trial. Abhisit will probably flee to UK.

Another poster suggested that I should put a big red "SATIRE" on that post - then along comes a red supporter and proves that it really wasn't necessary to do so. Apart from doing their job, exactly WHAT do you have against the DSI?

I told ya' people might get confused.

[OzMick]

If the Red Shirts continue to have influence over Thai politics, especially if it ever starts to come down to specific decisions politicians should make by themselves; then Thailand will be a mobocracy. As long as the elected officials make the decisions they make all by themselves and the peoples' power is to vote for them or their party again or not, then it's a democracy. Ignoring the minority has nothing to do with it. If Thailand is in fact a functioning democracy then even "ignored" people get a vote. Maybe the result of that is what we just saw in the last election.

What does 'lobbyist' do in America? (nobody elect)

What does 'political party' do? (nobody elect)

How are reds different to any other 'pressure group'?

The red's slogan was and is "Double standards."

My wife's friend who works for the kings daughter looking after autistic children and other severely disabled children. Well she just had a meeting with Yingluk over funding and she was highly impressed by Yingluk. we may get the chance to meet her.

All you democrat saps what are you left with? Abhisit did nothing. The democrats never do anything except repress and stuff their pockets

Yes the reds are serious.Serious about double standards, corrupt courts, corrupt military, corrupt police, corrupt burocracy.

As probably very few of you have been to one of their rallies. I remember reading on this board the Reds were gathering in Silom outside Bangkok bank. The general view on here they would all be drunk.

I went as I lived there and not one bottle of course just a lot of very serious and resolute people. No youth of course. I think they were all off playing video games. "Brainwashed."

People want change.

Remember the sixties?

"The red's slogan was and is "Double standards."" ................ and they certainly live up to it!

[bangkokrick]

Democracy is about accepting the will of the people despite objections to process. The new government may surprise the naysayers and achieve progress. Exactly which democracy on Earth is referred to in terms of absence of corruption and self interested politicians? Red, Yellow, Black or Purple Thailand is a great land and remains amazing. Support the democratic process, accept the will of the people and hope for peace and progress. Good luck to Yingluck. May you succeed and achieve.

"The will of the people"? Did PTP get 100% of the vote? How about 50%? The "will of the people" line is cheap political rhetoric. People are entitled to hold dissenting views in a democracy. Suggesting that people should not express dissenting views just because they are not in line with "the will of the people" - is anti-democratic.

Thaksin's last regime he clearly said, if you oppose his government, you oppose Thailand. That's the PTP version of democracy.

Didn't George Bush come out with something similar following 9/11?

[DumFarang]

Democracy is about accepting the will of the people despite objections to process. The new government may surprise the naysayers and achieve progress. Exactly which democracy on Earth is referred to in terms of absence of corruption and self interested politicians? Red, Yellow, Black or Purple Thailand is a great land and remains amazing. Support the democratic process, accept the will of the people and hope for peace and progress. Good luck to Yingluck. May you succeed and achieve.

"The will of the people"? Did PTP get 100% of the vote? How about 50%? The "will of the people" line is cheap political rhetoric. People are entitled to hold dissenting views in a democracy. Suggesting that people should not express dissenting views just because they are not in line with "the will of the people" - is anti-democratic.

Thaksin's last regime he clearly said, if you oppose his government, you oppose Thailand. That's the PTP version of democracy.

Didn't George Bush come out with something similar following 9/11?

Almost verbatim if you substitute "Thailand" for "Amurica."

[daboyz1]

The PTP definition of reconciliation is multi-faceted:

Firstly there is complete exoneration of the red-shirts (We have done nothing wrong!) which should take pace before the end of the year according to PTP MP Mrs Arisman, who expects hubby home by Xmas, in time to take up his place as Minister of Propaganda.

Second is the complete absolution of anybody related to the Shinawatra clan for all crimes past, present, currently being planned, or yet to be conceived. k.Thaksin will return as Yingluk's special adviser (for this term) and will sit in parliament slightly behind and to her left, his right arm out of sight. A special law will be passed making it treasonous to claim that you can see his lips moving while she speaks.

Third is the prosecution of all MPs of the Democrat and BJT parties for crimes against humanity the Red Shirt movement whilst carrying out their legitimate duties of office. This is not considered to be an excuse as the legitimate duties of office are seen by PTP as mere inconveniences whilst carrying out their more venal aspirations. A law will be passed re-instating capital punishment - hung, drawn and quartered is being considered, but considered by the Red Shirts to be too mild.

Fourth is removal from office and public denigration of all Army and DSI officers, public servants and journalists who assisted or supported the Democrat coalition while in office; very similar to the treatment of Nazi collaborators after the liberation of European countries. I believe this has already started.

Fifth (but not least, and particularly apt) the Red Shirts will become the semi-autonomous, semi-official Political Police with the duties of suppressing dissent and non-Shinawatra thought, and the harassment of those opposing PTP and Red-shirt policies.

Usually I would laugh at this, but I can see this happening. Scary!

[moe666]

When the red shirts do not get the cabinet seats they want, will they take to the streets in protest. We will see how Yinluck handles all this I have a suspicion that Thaksin will cut the red shirts lose as soon as they have out lived their usefullness even for him they will be a pain in the ass.

[Jingthing]

When the red shirts do not get the cabinet seats they want, will they take to the streets in protest. We will see how Yinluck handles all this I have a suspicion that Thaksin will cut the red shirts lose as soon as they have out lived their usefullness even for him they will be a pain in the ass.

That would be interesting to watch. The redshirts shutting down Bangkok to protest Thaksin. Stranger things have happened. He created the monster, it won't be as easy to appease it.

[scorecard]

As the foreigners weigh in against the PTP, harrumphing against imagined corruption from a government that isn't even in office,, Greece, a democratic nation and EU member is into its 2nd bailout and has the potential to inflict heavy damage to the EU. Greece is considered one of the most corrupt EU ntaions and a nation where there is rampant tax evasion and a history of dishonest government fiscal policy. And yet, no one is getting themselves up in quite the same lather.

Taxpayers in the Euro zone would disagree with you on this. Of course a 'Thailand news' forum is hardly the place to discuss the Greeks even when they bear gifts

And further geriatrickid, you really think anybody here is interested in corruption in alabama. Closer to home, if the locals are not vocal then why not?

[Ricardo]

When the red shirts do not get the cabinet seats they want, will they take to the streets in protest. We will see how Yinluck handles all this I have a suspicion that Thaksin will cut the red shirts lose as soon as they have out lived their usefullness even for him they will be a pain in the ass.

That would be interesting to watch. The redshirts shutting down Bangkok to protest Thaksin. Stranger things have happened. He created the monster, it won't be as easy to appease it.

It would be easy to keep them happy, just deliver on all the pre-election hollow-promises to help the poor, but as a cynic I suspect they may be stood with their hand-out in supplication to the PTP-elite for a long time. I will be pleased to be proven wrong on this !

What for example might a loyal Red-Shirt now say, as he waits for the government to be formed & his promised immediate 300B/day national minimum-wage, to DL who now directs from Dubai that it is only to be for workers in Bangkok and Phuket, or to Plodprasop when he says "it was only a campaign speech", and expects them to swallow their disappointment and anger ?

Lucky we don't have the guillotine in Thailand, eh ?

[rixalex]

The odd thing is that people of this persuasion were arguing on the forum that the last government could command a parliamentary majority and therefore could legitimately impose its will.

If you want to describe governing as imposing will, then yes, the last government could legitimately impose its will. Same goes for the incoming government. Don't have a problem with the legitimacy of either. I do have a problem with people telling me that because the incoming government has won a massive landslide and has the support of most of the electorate - neither of which things happen to be true - that anyone speaking out against any of this incoming governments actions is somehow being undemocratic and is attempting to thwart the will of the people. That is the gist of what has been coming from certain red quarters and to which i oppose. Not the right of the PTP to govern.

[pisico]

Democracy is doing just fine in Thailand ???? Really ???? Do they even know what Democracy means? There has never been democracy in Thailand and never will be in my lifetime whilst corrupt politicians and convicted persons are allowed to have a say in how the country is run.

You forgot the part about the army deposing a democratically elected government and esposonring a parliament of their liking. That of course is not Democracy.

What all the fanatical Dems fail to understand is (and that includes the Yellow shirts too), that the vote in the last election was a vote AGAINST Abhisit, Suthep, the army, the Yellow shirts and the Democrats.

No matter how guilty and/or convincted Thaksin was of those imputed crimes, there was a process in place in the Constitution and the power of Parliament to remove him and call for snap election or have the Depute PM take care of government until the new and proper elections were carried out. The army stepped in. That coup d'etat erased any semblances of Democracy in Thailand. I can think of a half dozen of banaa republics in South America and Africa that went that way. Thailand is in a much better place in history now to cement democratic rule. If there is corruption with the new PM and her supporters, let the democratic vote run its course and kick them out of office.

[whybother]

Democracy is doing just fine in Thailand ???? Really ???? Do they even know what Democracy means? There has never been democracy in Thailand and never will be in my lifetime whilst corrupt politicians and convicted persons are allowed to have a say in how the country is run.

You forgot the part about the army deposing a democratically elected government and esposonring a parliament of their liking. That of course is not Democracy.

What all the fanatical Dems fail to understand is (and that includes the Yellow shirts too), that the vote in the last election was a vote AGAINST Abhisit, Suthep, the army, the Yellow shirts and the Democrats.

No matter how guilty and/or convincted Thaksin was of those imputed crimes, there was a process in place in the Constitution and the power of Parliament to remove him and call for snap election or have the Depute PM take care of government until the new and proper elections were carried out. The army stepped in. That coup d'etat erased any semblances of Democracy in Thailand. I can think of a half dozen of banaa republics in South America and Africa that went that way. Thailand is in a much better place in history now to cement democratic rule. If there is corruption with the new PM and her supporters, let the democratic vote run its course and kick them out of office.

The part you are making up is that there was a democratically elected government deposed by the army. That wasn't the case in 2006.

[rubl]

Mmmm actually elected governments with a majority can do what they want as long as they do it through the constitutional system and not illegally.

Highlighting that you think a majority government has the right to do anything. As long as they vote about it first. Mugabe would be proud.

The odd thing is that people of this persuasion were arguing on the forum that the last government could command a parliamentary majority and therefore could legitimately impose its will.The current government has a much more convincing mandate and what is more lacks the corrupt and murky deals associated with its predecessor..and yet we hear mindless talk about Mugabe.Doesn't compute.

Precisely.

In a democracy it is wrong to talk about 'government legally imposes their will'. It's after long discussions, feed back from pro/anti, further deliberations, etc., etc. that new laws are accepted. Within the legal framework, constitution, and so on and so forth.

The coming government will be able to do the same, within the same framework, conditions, etc. Just having been able to form a majority coalition is no free pass to do just anything. Same with the previous government. The opposition will have it's say, question proposals, question legallity (without being too obstinate).

Italy is a good example of what can go wrong when a majority ruled by one pushes through laws to help cronies rather than the people. Of course Thailand has the (universal) right to learn from it's own mistakes, but do you really want them to do that?

[adder]

Democracy is doing just fine in Thailand ???? Really ???? Do they even know what Democracy means? There has never been democracy in Thailand and never will be in my lifetime whilst corrupt politicians and convicted persons are allowed to have a say in how the country is run.

You forgot the part about the army deposing a democratically elected government and esposonring a parliament of their liking. That of course is not Democracy.

What all the fanatical Dems fail to understand is (and that includes the Yellow shirts too), that the vote in the last election was a vote AGAINST Abhisit, Suthep, the army, the Yellow shirts and the Democrats.

No matter how guilty and/or convincted Thaksin was of those imputed crimes, there was a process in place in the Constitution and the power of Parliament to remove him and call for snap election or have the Depute PM take care of government until the new and proper elections were carried out. The army stepped in. That coup d'etat erased any semblances of Democracy in Thailand. I can think of a half dozen of banaa republics in South America and Africa that went that way. Thailand is in a much better place in history now to cement democratic rule. If there is corruption with the new PM and her supporters, let the democratic vote run its course and kick them out of office.

The part you are making up is that there was a democratically elected government deposed by the army. That wasn't the case in 2006.

It was & you know it

[rubl]

The part you are making up is that there was a democratically elected government deposed by the army. That wasn't the case in 2006.

It was & you know it

Why does this return every week or so? Just another newbie who can't be bothered to do homework first? Agitation? Tell a lie often enough so it gets 'truth' status?

The care-taker government of k. Thaksin had a distinct illegal character. K. Thaksin had stepped down and come back again, second time without royal endorsement. The caretaker government tried to dismantle checks and balances by putting trustworthy persons (like Shinawatra family members) in crucial positions to be able to control judiciary, police, army, whatever. The planned election in October 2006 was beyond the legal limit according to the constitution. Etc., etc.

With Thailand basicly a democracy this could continue even with the illegal character. Almost like Belgium without a government for more than a year now, but without the illegal aspects