Fire Safety Checks Ordered After Bangkok Condo Blaze

[webfact]

Fire safety checks ordered after condo blaze

By The Nation

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra yesterday instructed all district directors to check the safety standards and fireresponse plans of buildings across the capital after a blaze broke out at the luxury Le Raffine condominium on Wednesday.

The Khlong Toei District Office has sealed off the 18th floor of the building on Sukhumvit Soi 21 pending an investigation to determine the cause of the fire.

"The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration will set up a panel to inspect the condo structure and review the repair plan," said Pinit Lertudomthana, head of the building control division at the BMA's Public Works Department.

Representatives from the department, Engineering Institute of Thailand and the district office would sit on the committee, he said.

Amornrat Krittayanawat, director of Khlong Toei district, said the fire did not cause structural damage but gutted the insides of two units.

Deputy Governor Malinee Sukvejvorakij said an inspection showed the firesprinkler system at Le Raffine was in working condition but would not go off until the heat rose to 65 degrees Celsius.

"That's why it failed to control the flames from the very beginning," she said.

The owners of the burnt units had received temporary housing from the management of Le Raffine, she added.

-- The Nation 2011-08-19

[virtualtraveller]

Usual story, wait for something to burn, then order the safety inspectors to get on top of their job. Still no major overhaul sine that nightclub went up in flames.

[pauljones]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

[rakman]

Usual story, wait for something to burn, then order the safety inspectors to get on top of their job. Still no major overhaul sine that nightclub went up in flames.

Crack down.. 5555555555 :jap:

[pauljones]

That nightclub was operating illegally and they were paying the police to stay open. No?

Usual story, wait for something to burn, then order the safety inspectors to get on top of their job. Still no major overhaul sine that nightclub went up in flames.

[Wiggy]

I'm no expert, but I know of no fire that burns below 65 degrees Celsius - that wouldn't even melt plastic! Were the sprinklers really working?

[Soutpeel]

Deputy Governor Malinee Sukvejvorakij said an inspection showed the firesprinkler system at Le Raffine was in working condition but would not go off until the heat rose to 65 degrees Celsius.

"That's why it failed to control the flames from the very beginning," she said.

And what temprature would you suggest they go at 30 degrees ???...... .....residents had better invest in some indutrial strength umbrella's then

Flames at 65 degree's ?. .....that a new one.....

I wonder what steps have been taken since the night club fire as regards fire safety in buildings around BKK ?.....my guess...nothing...

Edited August 19, 2011 by Soutpeel

[edgarfriendly]

hub

[CosmicSurfer]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I wouldn't normally Call Le Raffine a 'Firetrap'....

Its a relatively new building with Condos STARTING at $1 million.

All Condos are 2-Floor and have a private Swimming Pool for EACH Condo.

Click > Le Raffine

Just goes to Show how "Superficial" everything is here!

CS

[Soutpeel]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I wouldn't normally Call Le Raffine a 'Firetrap'....

Its a relatively new building with Condos STARTING at $1 million.

All Condos are 2-Floor and have a private Swimming Pool for EACH Condo.

Click > Le Raffine

Just goes to Show how "Superficial" everything is here!

CS

So you are suggesting that nowhere else in the world has an apartment building ever caught fire...?

[toybits]

This is no condo, but a government housing unit in the Middle of Chiang Rai. I am attaching a photo so that some people might take notice and DO something about it before something terrible happens. In case you have not noticed, the fire exit is padlocked from the outside.

Edited August 19, 2011 by toybits

[engine1589]

I was a fire captain in the U.S. for 14 years and also was a fire prevention officer where we wrote building and fire codes. The 65 degree sprinkler heads is correct for residential installations. This temperature is intended to be 30 degrees above ambient temperature and provide a buffer to prevent any false actuations (so no umbrellas needed). That being said, this fire would have easily opened the sprinkler heads and helped contain the fire. More than likely there was no water in the system and the officials weren’t doing their jobs/don't know how to do their jobs (no experience, background, eduction in fire prevention)...not to mention taking money under the table are now trying to cover their tracks/save face just like the hotel deaths in Chang Mai. Amazing Thailand.

[scorecard]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I wouldn't normally Call Le Raffine a 'Firetrap'....

Its a relatively new building with Condos STARTING at $1 million.

All Condos are 2-Floor and have a private Swimming Pool for EACH Condo.

Click > Le Raffine

Just goes to Show how "Superficial" everything is here!

CS

So you are suggesting that nowhere else in the world has an apartment building ever caught fire...?

Clearly there are problems with proper sprinkler systems etc, plus problems with proper evacuation plans etc., and it's not only Thailand.

Plus there's another factor in some condos with owners / tenants storing inappropriate products in their condo unit.

My condo in Bkk is an example, for a long time the owners of the penthouse, about 350 sq metres (23F) were using half of this area to store massive amounts of highly inflammable inks plus massive amounts of highly inflammable solvents which they used in the type of printing that they do at their large printing works in Klong Toey, which has no capacity to store raw materials.

Nobody queried anything until they rented another large vacant condo in our building on the 18th floor for another storage area for the same products. The Thai man in the next condo, an engineer who is quite vocal, demanded to know what was in the boxes. He raised hell, the people storing the products refused to move it out and then under pressure from many owners the owners committee called an extraordinary general meeting. Every owner at the meeting voted to demand that the products be moved out.

The people storing the products asked for three months to find another storage area. This was put to the general meeting and it made the other owners even more angry. End result, moved out the same day, but then they tried to use the same rooms to store massive amounts of paper. Again the other owners quickly raised hell. Final end result, they sold their penthouse and moved out.

Edited August 19, 2011 by scorecard

[renaissanc]

Is 65 degrees Celcius normal for a sprinkler system? I think I'd prefer the temperature to be set much lower. By the time the heat reaches 65 degrees, surely the fire is big already.

[CosmicSurfer]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I wouldn't normally Call Le Raffine a 'Firetrap'....

Its a relatively new building with Condos STARTING at $1 million.

All Condos are 2-Floor and have a private Swimming Pool for EACH Condo.

Just goes to Show how "Superficial" everything is here!

CS

So you are suggesting that nowhere else in the world has an apartment building ever caught fire...?

NO.... I'm accusing Thais of Not being concerned with details and planning and of being only concerned with the superficial visual aspects of their projects.

And then with selling them for Top $$$$ Of course.

I'm over with coddling them and making excuses.

This Building is relatively new. Plus it is extremely Expensive.

There is NO EXCUSE for a structure of this caliber to be built with inadequate Fire Safety Controls.

Thais have great Design aesthetics.. But their planning and execution is not worth sh-t!

CS

[snarky66]

Read post #12 one more time.

[Raptor7]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I wouldn't normally Call Le Raffine a 'Firetrap'....

Its a relatively new building with Condos STARTING at $1 million.

All Condos are 2-Floor and have a private Swimming Pool for EACH Condo.

Click > Le Raffine

Just goes to Show how "Superficial" everything is here!

CS

you have referred to the wrong Le Raffine

the one under discussion is the older one on Sukhumvit Soi 24...

http://www.leraffine.com/LRProject.aspx?LRProjectId=4

[CosmicSurfer]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I wouldn't normally Call Le Raffine a 'Firetrap'....

Its a relatively new building with Condos STARTING at $1 million.

All Condos are 2-Floor and have a private Swimming Pool for EACH Condo.

Click > Le Raffine

Just goes to Show how "Superficial" everything is here!

CS

you have referred to the wrong Le Raffine

the one under discussion is the older one on Sukhumvit Soi 24...

http://www.leraffine.com/LRProject.aspx?LRProjectId=4

555555555555 - I gues the joke is on Both of us!

The OP says:

The Khlong Toei District Office has sealed off the 18th floor of the building on Sukhumvit Soi 21 pending an investigation to determine the cause of the fire.

I naturally thought they had Mistyped 31 as 21.. But you think the Error is 24 instead of 21.

Again, so typical of Thai style.. Rush to get the job done (the story) and don't check the facts.

Besides, the Building on Soi 24 may be older.. But it's not much cheaper!

Superficial Rules again.

CS

Edited August 19, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[WhizBang]

The Khlong Toei District Office has sealed off the 18th floor of the building on Sukhumvit Soi 21 pending an investigation to determine the cause of the fire.

Well it sure as hell is NOT Soi 21... Sukhumvit Soi 21 is ASOKE.

[givenall]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I always wonder about any safety standard in Thailand. It isall about look rather than function. In my condo I have smoke alarm and sprinklesystem. But I always wonder if they really work since I never seen anyone ofthe being tested. Funny thing Le Raffine condothat burned was much more expensive than mine

[CosmicSurfer]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I always wonder about any safety standard in Thailand. It is all about look rather than functionIn my condo I have smoke alarm and sprinkle system. But I always wonder if they really work since I never seen anyone of the being tested. Funny thing Le Raffine condo that burned was much more expensive than mine

My Point Exactly!!

CS

Edited August 19, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[blazes]

There are many firetraps but the fire chief ignores them.

Just look at Pantip Plaza.

Most of the area near the fire exits have been rented out to vendors that set up tables and block the exits.

If there was a fire and panic, it could be worse than Santika.

I wouldn't normally Call Le Raffine a 'Firetrap'....

Its a relatively new building with Condos STARTING at $1 million.

All Condos are 2-Floor and have a private Swimming Pool for EACH Condo.

Click > Le Raffine

Just goes to Show how "Superficial" everything is here!

CS

WHAT goes to show?

[rolfmajestic]

http://pattayatoday.net/news/thailand-news/fire-in-sukhumvit-high-rise-condominium/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"Mr Yongyuth said he was told that the fire warning and water sprinkler systems in the building failed to function."

[jimbeam1]

Whenever I see one of these very tall buildings. I just think no thank you. Our apartment is on the 4th floor (Thai 5th) when I look over the balcony at the permanently waterlogged ground below, I often think how soft would the landing be if necessary?

jb1

[Basil B]

Two pictures taken two years ago, at a condominium near Pattaya, wonder if thy have finished them yet?

who's going to push Granny?

[engine1589]

Anytime I move into a new condo I ask the building manager if I can see the fire system panel and maintenance/testing schedule. If they give me a blank look I am gone. The fire panel should read 'all systems normal'. If its a floor above a couple stories, I also check the exits to see if there is anything blocking them. If they are locked and/or there is stuff being stored in there, I would point it out to management and NOT live there. If you still don't feel safe in your condo and think the fire system doesn't work, I recommend you buy your own personal smoke detector at a store like home pro and change the batteries ever 4 months. At least you'll know this will wake you up if there is a fire...then make sure you know how to get to the exits...minimum two.

[Soutpeel]

I recommend you buy your own personal smoke detector at a store like home pro and change the batteries ever 4 months. At least you'll know this will wake you up if there is a fire...then make sure you know how to get to the exits...minimum two.

Anbd buy some smoke hoods

[IMA_FARANG]

I was a fire captain in the U.S. for 14 years and also was a fire prevention officer where we wrote building and fire codes. The 65 degree sprinkler heads is correct for residential installations. This temperature is intended to be 30 degrees above ambient temperature and provide a buffer to prevent any false actuations (so no umbrellas needed). That being said, this fire would have easily opened the sprinkler heads and helped contain the fire. More than likely there was no water in the system and the officials weren’t doing their jobs/don't know how to do their jobs (no experience, background, eduction in fire prevention)...not to mention taking money under the table are now trying to cover their tracks/save face just like the hotel deaths in Chang Mai. Amazing Thailand.

----------------------------------

What is surprising about that?

It just isn't "Amazing Thailand"...it's Capitalisim.

No matter what the condo sells for or how pretty it looks, there is no PROFIT in maintenance.

And if there is no PROFIT the investors/shareholders in the owning company don't want it...because it's just "overhead" that cuts in to their holy PROFIT.

What I would really like to know...but I doubt anyone will ever say...is this:

were those two units that were destroyed by the fire actually OCCUPIED?

Or were they just bought by owners who did not live there as an "investment" by the owners who had no intention of actually living there, but were simply holding them for resale later at a profit?

But I doubt that information will ever come out.

But just remember...maintenance and upkeep generate no profit.

[RKASA]

This is no condo, but a government housing unit in the Middle of Chiang Rai. I am attaching a photo so that some people might take notice and DO something about it before something terrible happens. In case you have not noticed, the fire exit is padlocked from the outside.

Well it says don't enter - Must be monkeys inside. ya - that looks like a problem in the event you need the stairs.

[harveyBKK]

I was a fire captain in the U.S. for 14 years and also was a fire prevention officer where we wrote building and fire codes. The 65 degree sprinkler heads is correct for residential installations. This temperature is intended to be 30 degrees above ambient temperature and provide a buffer to prevent any false actuations (so no umbrellas needed). That being said, this fire would have easily opened the sprinkler heads and helped contain the fire. More than likely there was no water in the system and the officials weren't doing their jobs/don't know how to do their jobs (no experience, background, eduction in fire prevention)...not to mention taking money under the table are now trying to cover their tracks/save face just like the hotel deaths in Chang Mai. Amazing Thailand.

----------------------------------

What is surprising about that?

It just isn't "Amazing Thailand"...it's Capitalisim.

No matter what the condo sells for or how pretty it looks, there is no PROFIT in maintenance.

And if there is no PROFIT the investors/shareholders in the owning company don't want it...because it's just "overhead" that cuts in to their holy PROFIT.

What I would really like to know...but I doubt anyone will ever say...is this:

were those two units that were destroyed by the fire actually OCCUPIED?

Or were they just bought by owners who did not live there as an "investment" by the owners who had no intention of actually living there, but were simply holding them for resale later at a profit?

But I doubt that information will ever come out.

But just remember...maintenance and upkeep generate no profit.

I watched the entire thing unfold about 150 meters away form my 22nd story apartment (almost the same height as the unit that burned) with a wall of windows in my living room that faces La Raffine dead on.

This was interesting (and of course sad and tragic) to watch for about 4 hours. I was on the phone with a business associate in Australia when I noticed smoke and some very small flames on the patio. I am 99% certain the fire started in the right side (from my perspective) of the patio of the unit that was most clearly on fire. That unit is inhabited by some old white people, but too far away to tell nationality or what have you. Someone did live there. I don't know if there was a BBQ grill, fireplace, or ashtray out there, or if it was electrical. I'm not sure anyone in the city, including emergency responders had as good a view as I did for as long of the entire incident. I've attached here the first picture I took with my iPhone, maybe ten minutes after we noticed smoke. I imagine the fire was burning from whatever small flame or spark started it for about 15 to 20 minutes at this point, but it's just a guess.

As you can VERY clearly see, the visible flames are on the right side of the porch. It was some time before the flames reached the second floor visibly, which also leads me to believe it started outside. However, pieces of the right side of the building were cracking and falling off leading one to conclude that perhaps the fire actually started in or near the wall, just inside the unit. Of course, the fire could have just spread to there from the outside as well.

As soon as I noticed it I opened my window and whistled and yelled across to the various people I saw come and go form their balcony to get out. It was interesting, 20-30 minutes, people we still clearly occupying the building despite VERY visible flames and smoke. This leads me to believe the fire warning system was not in fact operational. That, or those people we confused or unwilling to abandone their homes.

I do not know if the unit above was inhabited, nor if the one to the right was. EIther one of them could have been gutted along with the unit where it started.

I've also attached a photo of the unit after the fire was put out, taken yesterday morning.