Thai Sayings and Phrases Wanted

[bannork]

35 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Hello bannork, I have found a useful tool in Google translate where as you enter the phrase it translates simultaneously. It is quite interesing because it seems to show how words have come to mean what they do. หุ่นไม่ gives : not a puppet>หุ่นไม่ให้ : do not give >หุ่นไม่ให้แต่ใจรัก: I do not love. So it appears to treat แต่ as a preposition because หุ่นไม่ให้ใจรัก : I do not mind.

This is where I think context is important because if I were to ask a native speaker they are likely to shrug their shoulders and say "forget it" but we know that we have to try to understand what people mean so want to see if we can work something out. So as suggested, แต่ is treated as a conjunction.
In this case you have provided a picture and explained the meaning which I take to be comparing the หุ่น of the elder lady with the หุ่น of the younger woman and what they each are able to wear. The older woman by fighting the younder puts herself in the same class as the younger woman but she clearly isn't. Mutton dressed as lamb works as far as dress only is concerned but the dominant feature here appears to me to be a 'cat fight' but, hey ho!

Oh, Google asked if I meant หุ่นไม่ให่แต่ใจรัก from Amazon? I got nothing when I clicked it. Perhaps in that context it was a review of a dress which had to be returned. "I liked it but it doesn't fit my body shape." (too small).
If that is the syntax beng used than I guess that other factors apart from อายุ might be understood; ขนาด ทรัพย์(ติดตัว) รายได้ ร่างกาย for example.

I know that I "tink too mut" but it's this or dig the garden!



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My wife made the remark to me the other day about a katoey walking down the street. He clearly wanted to look like a woman but his bone structure was way too large, broad shouldered with large hands and a 5 o' clock shadow he had no chance fighting mother nature.

I like the phrase หุ่นไม่ให้    - the figure, body shape won't allow       what you want -ใจรัก

We don't often get that in the West but we do sometimes see mutton dressed up as lamb.

Our age won't allow อายุไม่ให้          

 To offset any charges of sexism I reckon it could be applied to men too. I'm an ageing hippie but when I see men almost bald yet insisting on a token ponytail of what little hair they have, I feel like tapping them on the shoulder and saying give up mate.

[tgeezer]

I retract what I said about substituting money income size etc. for หุ่น because the value of a saying like หุ่นไม่ให้แต่ใจรัก is that หุ่น and ใจ are aspects of the same subject.
I think that in the case of the picture it is anybody's guess what the elder woman is keen on but which her หุ่น prevents. Is it agility in fighting or attractiveness, ability to wear sexy shorts or something deeper? I think that in 'Mutton dressed as lamb' she would need to be dressed inappropriately for her age, I don't see that.
The ladyboy example is very good because หุ่น for her is deeper and cannot be determined from observation.



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[bannork]

To me it's simple: the ladyboy in question, described by one poster as resembling Steven Seagal,  wants to look like a woman but his size and bone stature refuse to let that image emerge.What we see is a bloke wearing a woman's clothes.

Last night a Thai friend mentioned that the celebrity Dome Pakorn Lam had proposed to his girlfriend in Queenstown in  New Zealand. I remarked he had a reputation as a womanizer  เจ้าชู้   she laughed and said he used to be a เสือผู้หญิง another expression for a womanizer, but now he was older he had ถอดเขี้ยวเล็บ - removed his fangs and claws-  and thus had turned over a new leaf!

[tgeezer]

Oh crickey, are they both ladyboys? So in that case I thnk that it is a perfect example of หุ่นไม่ให้แต่ใจรัก which I missed because I saw a woman.

I was forced to 'ting to mut' as I often do when I don't have anybody to put me straight so thanks for that.

 

This is why I value having a native speaker on hand as you have and I shall have when I get back to Bangkok for the winter.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Damrongsak]

3 hours ago, Lonarterfes said:

I want to know Thai Lang. Can i cover it within 2 month. Just basics.

It's been over 40 years, but when I got Peace Corps training it was about that long, maybe a bit more with some reading and writing.  Most of the day, 5 days a week if I recall.  And it was mostly in Thai, but with very little speaking from the teacher.  They sounded a word, made everyone repeat it properly, then demonstrated the meaning.  No translation.  Learn a few nouns, verbs and adjectives.  Learn how to put them together into a meaningful phrase or sentence.  It was intense.

 

They called it the "Silent Way". Very effective.  A few of my classmates excelled.  I did good enough to manage a couple years in the boondocks and a small town where there were very few English speakers and about 1/2 dozen farangs.  My wife didn't speak English, though 40 years on she does.  Much better than my Thai.  I can understand some people but not others. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Way

 

Footnote: "... As of 2000, the Silent Way was only used by a small number of teachers. These teachers often work in situations where accuracy or speed of learning is important. Their working conditions may also be challenging, for example working with illiterate refugees ..."  That sums it up.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Damrongsak

[bannork]

ข้าวแดงแกงร้อน - the support and love (บุญคุณ) we receive from others- parents, employers etc and thus we owe a debt of gratitude to them for that help.

This idiom was invoked recently to criticize a retired army officer who had the temerity to join a party opposed to coups. The man forgets his previous employer and benefactor, how dare he!

Below are examples of the phrase in sentences.

1. เพราะข้าวแดงแกงร้อนของคุณยาย ทำให้ผมไม่ต้องกลายเป็นเด็กเร่ร่อนข้างถนน ผมสัญญาว่าจะดูแลคุณยายให้ดีที่สุด

Because of grandma's care I didn't become a street urchin, so I promise I will take care of grandma to the best of my ability.

 

– เด็กคนนี้เป็นคนไม่สำนึกข้าวแดงแกงร้อนที่ยายแกเลี้ยงดูมา เป็นคนเนรคุณคนจริงๆ

This kid doesn't think about the fact it was/is grandma who brought him up. He is truly an ungrateful child.

[tgeezer]

I like that because it is an example of demystifying Thai.
The second example in fact is not idiomatic, do you have what the Army says about the officer who now opposes them?
I would expect it to be brief and to the point if this is an idiom; เขาลืมขาวแดงแกงร้อนของยาย
He forgets where his loyalty lies.



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[bannork]

On 11/24/2018 at 8:57 AM, tgeezer said:

I like that because it is an example of demystifying Thai.
The second example in fact is not idiomatic, do you have what the Army says about the officer who now opposes them?
I would expect it to be brief and to the point if this is an idiom; เขาลืมขาวแดงแกงร้อนของยาย
He forgets where his loyalty lies.



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Here is what General Pravit had to say about the officer-

เป็นความคิดของเขา แต่ก็แปลกดี อยู่กับเรามาโดยตลอด และไปด่าคณะรักษาความสงบเรียบร้อยแห่งชาติ (คสช.) ไม่คิดถึงข้าวแดงแกงร้อน

 

[tgeezer]

Thanks bannork, better than mine obviously, ลืม is probably Thaigrit in this context and I was a little surprised to see that I had added ของยาย !

I used to get annoyed when looking up words in the RID not realising that the ตัวอย่าง was an explanation rather than an example of the word in use.

 

Who would thought of using แปลกดี ?

It is what he thinks but strange ? . has always been with us and criticises KorSorChor .......

Is ดี sarcasm do you think?

 

 

 

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[bannork]

35 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Thanks bannork, better than mine obviously, ลืม is probably Thaigrit in this context and I was a little surprised to see that I had added ของยาย !

I used to get annoyed when looking up words in the RID not realising that the ตัวอย่าง was an explanation rather than an example of the word in use.

 

Who would thought of using แปลกดี ?

It is what he thinks but strange ? . has always been with us and criticises KorSorChor .......

Is ดี sarcasm do you think?

 

 

 

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I think แปลกดี is often used as an exclamation when the speaker expresses surprise at something. Perhaps the speaker can hardly believe what he has just heard or seen.

'that's weird/ baffling/blimey/ really strange/ <deleted>/ struth/ etc!

 

[tgeezer]

Makes sense thanks.



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[bannork]

I often play a general knowledge quiz with my Thai Mattayom students and one part of that is music. I look at the current hits, translate the titles into English, and ask the students who is the singer/band. Usually I have no problem but the latest song title by Stamp perplexed me.- ภูเขาบังเส้นผม - the mountain blocks the strand of hair

I believe the idiom is actually the reverse เส้นผมบังภูเขา- the strand of hair blocks the mountain- meaning a problem is not difficult to solve but we either ignore and miss the obvious solution, or are unable to see the solution, so we end up thinking the problem is complex and hard to deal with.

A couple of examples on this link.

http://www.สุภาษิต.net/เส้นผมบังภูเขา/

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by bannork

[DavidHouston]

Thank you Bannork. Here is the last stanza of the song:

"อยากไปบังพระอาทิตย์
ให้มืดมิดจนหมดฟ้า
ห้ามให้ใครได้สบตา
ไม่ต้องเห็นเลยได้ไหม
อยากจะเก็บเสียงเธอ
กลบมันด้วยสายลม
อยากจะเอาภูเขามาบังเส้นผม
ไม่ให้ใครชื่นชมแม้เส้นเดียว"

The last four lines say,

I want to capture your voice
And conceal it with the wind
I want to use the mountains to hide your hair
To keep anyone from admiring even one strand.

I think you are right on! The lyricist creatively reversed the metaphor for poetic effect. How cool is that! 

[bannork]

I got a new idiom courtesy of Thai Visa today and its story about a car supposedly driven blindly out of a soi which then collided with a motorbike on the main road.

The story came from Sanook.com and the headline was as follows-

ฝรั่งไม่ดูตาม้าตาเรือ-ควบเก๋งหรูออกจากซอยเสย จยย.ล้มกลิ้ง-หามหนุ่มใหญ่ส่ง รพ.

The idiom that caught my eye was ดูตาม้าตาเรือ which means watch the knight and bishop (as in chess).

The phrase is usually negative as in above  ไม่ดูตาม้าตาเรือ- for inexperienced players the knight may make moves one doesn't anticipate, so the whole phrase in the negative form means to be careless, inattentive, a trait many drivers are guilty of.

Of further interest was the word เสย which I've been told means bends, curls or flies upward.

The TV headline says, A western driver who they said blindly came out of an intersection and hit a Thai man on a motorcycle.

We often say, 'the driver came flying around the corner' meaning at excessive speed and perhaps out of control.

Below is an example of เสย where the driver loses control by having an epileptic fit and 'flies' into the bus stop. Luckily no one was there!

 

 

[DavidHouston]

Thank you for posting this bannork. Here is the sample sentence from Longdo:

"เขาเดินไม่ดูตาม้าตาเรือเลยถูกรถชน"
He was walking without paying attention [to where he was going] so he was hit by a car.

From Matichon Weekly:
 

"เราควรมีน้ำใจต่อน้องหนูและต่อยายแก่ที่กำลังข้ามถนนโดยไม่ดูตาม้าตาเรือ"

We should have concern for our young children and for our elderly citizens who cross the street without exercising caution.   

Thanks again.

[tgeezer]

I got a new idiom courtesy of Thai Visa today and its story about a car supposedly driven blindly out of a soi which then collided with a motorbike on the main road.
The story came from Sanook.com and the headline was as follows-
ฝรั่งไม่ดูตาม้าตาเรือ-ควบเก๋งหรูออกจากซอยเสย จยย.ล้มกลิ้ง-หามหนุ่มใหญ่ส่ง รพ.
The idiom that caught my eye was ดูตาม้าตาเรือ which means watch the knight and bishop (as in chess).
The phrase is usually negative as in above  ไม่ดูตาม้าตาเรือ- for inexperienced players the knight may make moves one doesn't anticipate, so the whole phrase in the negative form means to be careless, inattentive, a trait many drivers are guilty of.
Of further interest was the word เสย which I've been told means bends, curls or flies upward.
The TV headline says, A western driver who they said blindly came out of an intersection and hit a Thai man on a motorcycle.
We often say, 'the driver came flying around the corner' meaning at excessive speed and perhaps out of control.
Below is an example of เสย where the driver loses control by having an epileptic fit and 'flies' into the bus stop. Luckily no one was there!
 
[/url]  

I agree with you, You have used ‘flying’ for the verb I notice but do you know if รถเก๋งหรู is common? After “Inattentive farang” รถเก๋งหรู could be taken as criticism. To make people who can’t afford รถหรู one might say the bigger the car the bigger the idiot driving it. Could this be what this report is saying?
เอาหมัดเสยคาง deliver un uppercut to the jaw.
ช้างเสยงา elephant with swept up tusks. ?


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[tgeezer]

I guess that there are books which explain เสย as containing the vowel เอย . That is not conventional and it never occurred to me because I learnt เลย by rote. I may have forgotten something but I think that both เลย and เสย can not be explained using Thai orthography.




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[digbeth]

เสย in boxing is the uppercut 

 

เสยผม is when you use hand to part hairs on the head (upward) could be morphed from สางผม for combing hair

[tgeezer]

This is where a discussion on definitions could be useful. The examples of เสย which I gave are from the RID.
I think that I got ช้างเสยงา wrong. It perhaps isn’t an elephant with upswept tusks but an elephant lifting its tusks in the air. เสย is best seen as a transitive verb.
The TV translation in bannork’s post is not good because it ignores the Thai.
The driver, the type of car, the manner of driving, the situation, and the outcome are all dramatically described in the Thai.
A farang in a flashy car came speeding out of the soi without looking and sent a motorcyclist flying-the middle aged motorcyclist was carried off to hospital.
I am guessing that the use of หาม shows that he couldn’t walk. literally I think that it means that he was lifted head and feet off to hospital but I would assume it means into an ambulance.



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[bannork]

Just now, tgeezer said:

This is where a discussion on definitions could be useful. The examples of เสย which I gave are from the RID.
I think that I got ช้างเสยงา wrong. It perhaps isn’t an elephant with upswept tusks but an elephant lifting its tusks in the air. เสย is best seen as a transitive verb.
The TV translation in bannork’s post is not good because it ignores the Thai.
The driver, the type of car, the manner of driving, the situation, and the outcome are all dramatically described in the Thai.
A farang in a flashy car came speeding out of the soi without looking and sent a motorcyclist flying-the middle aged motorcyclist was carried off to hospital.
I am guessing that the use of หาม shows that he couldn’t walk. literally I think that it means that he was lifted head and feet off to hospital but I would assume it means into an ambulance.



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I like 'sent the motorcyclist flying' but don't you think

เสย is referring to the car not the motorcyclist?

A Thai told me เสย is similar to เฉี่ยว as in to hit sideways so we could say- a Westerner in a flashy car came speeding out of the soi without looking and hit a motorbike sideways, sending  the motorcyclist flying

 

[bannork]

This morning  one of my Mattayom students came up to me excitedly and said, 'Teacher, I forgot the body, I forgot the body.'

This student is bigger than the other students and she has a voice like a foghorn but I have always thought that at heart she was a kind and pleasant girl, so I was disappointed to realize she was possibly involved in serious crime.

And then she explained. She had been excitedly (as always) talking to a friend as she strode down the street and had accidentally bumped into a foreigner walking the other way. She immediately apologized and translated directly what a Thai might say- ลืมตัว which of course translated directly as 'forget (the ) body'. She was quite pleased with herself-' Teacher, I remembered to use the past tense. I said, 'I'm sorry, I forgot the body'.'

lol

I wonder what the bemused foreigner was thinking after that exchange!

And thinking about it, ลืมตัว is one of those phrases that just doesn't translate easily. When we bump into someone we might just say, 'Sorry' or ' Sorry, my mind was elsewhere,' etc.

 

[tgeezer]

Absolutely, I see the car is a subject and the motorcycle as the object because although it can be argued that this is a headline and need not be grammatically correct, it appears to be grammatically correct.
The difference in translation is minimal, we have both imagined one of the outcomes a flying motorcyclist which is an interpretation based on this verb, mine comes from the result of ถูกเสย upwards motion, and your interlocutor’s from ถูกเฮี่ยว glancing blow, they are both equally valid don’t you think?

Could you ask your interlocutor if his/her interpretation could be influenced by their experience of motorcycle accidents where a glancing blow เฉี่ยว, is the norm? The writer could have said ชน and เฉี่ยว might still be the picture in some people’s imagination until eventually the word for a collision with a motorbike becomes เฉี่ยว. This could be an example of how words change their meaning!

Do you not agree that we should question why the writer used the word เสย and not เฉี่ยว, or the less ambiguous ชน?
As a teacher you appear to be in the perfect position to find out.
What subject do you teach incidentally?


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[tgeezer]

I envy you your opportunity to question native speakers on language. I am as guilty as your student of thinking in my language and expressing it in Thai inappropriately. I will often use the excuse แก่แล้ว I am an old man, which is self deprecating in English but I suspect might be taken as suggesting that the person is not affording me the respect due to my seniority in Thai. Because it is difficult to be sure I try to keep any apology to a stranger at the basic level, ขอโทษครับ with the suggestion of a wai. In the Army Golf Club the suggestion of a salute is acceptable because one is often carrying something.




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[DavidHouston]

I wonder whether เสย means "pile up on". Let's consider the RID explanation:

"

เสย

ก. ช้อนขึ้น เช่น ช้างเสยงา, เอาหวีหรือนิ้วมือไสผมขึ้นไป ในคำว่า เสยผม, เกย เช่น เสยหัวเรือเข้าตลิ่ง, โดยปริยายหมายถึงอาการอย่างอื่นที่มีลักษณะเช่นนั้น เช่น เอาหมัดเสยคาง."

verb. to raise, for example, 'the elephant raised its tusks'; to use a comb or one's fingers to raise or lift one's hair in the phrase 'to brush hair away from one's face'; to lie on top of, for example 'to raise the bow of the boat up on the shore'; [to beach a boat]; by implication the word means any other action which is similar to this activity, for example, 'to strike a punch on the chin [of one's opponent]'.

Seems to me that the traffic usage means 'to run over', crash into, or 'to pile up'. Here's a sentence from the newspaper:
 

"เมื่อสอบสวนคนขับรถสารภาพว่าหลับในจึงเสยท้ายรถบรรทุกที่จอดอยู่ข้างทาง"

Upon investigation, the driver admitted that he dozed off; he thus crashed into the rear of a truck which was parked on the side of the road.

 
[Matichon Weekend, 22-28 December 2017]

What do you think?

    

[tgeezer]

Well เสย seems to mean crash David. We use 'pile up' for crash in England maybe that is how เสย is being used. หลับใน is a handy verb.


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[tgeezer]

I know that people make assumptions on meanings of words based on context. Perhaps เสย is one such word, it is possible that writer has never needed to research what the RID says about the word. We don’t have the same background so find ourselves in discussion and making discoveries which have never occurred to native speakers. It is our curse so I make no apology for continuing this topic and hope that we might continue.

I said that the motorcyclist was not mentioned and have just noticed ล้มกลิ่ง Fall down-roll, maybe ‘flying’ was an assumption I made based on that, because I didn’t feel that ล้ม could apply to a motorbike.

หามหนุ่มใหญ่ส่งรพ. seems cryptic to me, ผู้ขับขี่จรย.ถูกหามโดยหนุ่มใหญ่แล้วส่งนพ is how I read it.
Could หนุ่มใหญ่ signify that the motorcyclist was a young person do you think?


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[bannork]

หนุ่มใหญ่  means middle aged

I'm surprised you missed ล้มกลิ่ง  fall off, roll over

sent flying works imo

เสย crashed into  (perhaps with a sense of loss of control) unlike some accidents where drivers just crash into each other รถชน

[tgeezer]

I didn't miss it when I first read it but made the mistake of not referring to the original when discussing เสย at some length.

No one corrected me when I said that the motorcyclist was not mentioned.

I was wondering why หนุ่มใหญ่, is their age significant or is there no other word which would do? Age and titles are factors in Thai society so is age group being used for that reason?

 

 

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[soalbundy]

One that I like :-

Women age quickly but are slow in dying

[bannork]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

One that I like :-

Women age quickly but are slow in dying

I heard that about farangs,ฝรั่งแก่เร็วแต่ตายช้า