Improvement Plan For Suvarnabhumi Airport Link Service

[whybother]

Its always made me furious - from its initial idea 7 years ago and watching just how ineffective it is today.

The airport Link is a massive Line - And it could have stretched around Bangkok Instead - Ramkhamheang and other areas.

It could have made huge improvements to the CITY, Traffic, pollution, Commuters and actually done some GOOD for the country.

Instead it was linked to the Airport - to take money from the Taxis, and help a few tourists.

What an absolutely selfish money making idea the airport link was.

I will personally Never use it - and hope it rots to the ground. Because the creators could have helped millions of people and changed Bangkok in massive ways - but instead... we have this...

It's part of the system. 40,000 people use it every day, and if they actually get some more trains, a lot more people will use it.

[whybother]

It is so maddening to hear someone suggest the passengers are at fault for taking luggage into a station not designed for people with luggage. It's one of the lamest things I've heard in a while.

Was I suggesting the passengers were at fault? I'm just suggesting that passengers need to deal with the fact that the commuter stations are designed for the tens of thousands of people that carry a small bag, and not the tens of people that carry a suitcase.

Do you complain about how difficult it is to get on a Bangkok bus with a suitcase? Have you ever tried getting from a London airport out into the suburbs?

Do I think that it all needs to be improved? Of course it does. But at least it's a step in the right direction.

[rubl]

Wan hopes that these new measures will boost the dismal number of passengers which is currently at 1,700 for the Express Line and 37,000 for the City Line per day.

He added that the company is planning to procure five more trains, each with four-cars, under a budget of three billion baht in order to efficiently accommodate two million commuters per month as projected.

No doubt a few more trains will lead to an increase of commuters which in it self is good. The CityLine will probably see an increase in commuters anyway. Easier to get into BKK CBD than driving along RamaIX or Phetburi. An increase of people who want to go to/from the airport seems less likely. To suggest that FIVE more trains will lead to an 25-fold increase seems ludicrous.

BTW the company newsflash talks about

"NEWS UPDATE... 22nd September, 2011

Improvement plan for Airport Link service

The Transport Ministry plans to buy five more trains in 2014 to increase the frequency and efficiency of the Airport RaIlRail Link service, the rail route that links Bangkok's central area to Suvarnabhumi Airport." So don't hold your breath.

http://bangkokairporttrain.com/news.html

(Originally nine trains were ordered / delivered, five 4-car Express trains and four 3-car CityLine trains.)

Edited September 22, 2011 by rubl

[eddie61]

I'm confused, the airport link should be extended to Pattaya? What about the proposed high speed link to Rayong that would incorporate Pattaya? Are there 2 projects or are they the same?

Me too: interested in the link to Pattaya.

Will it actually stop near pattaya, or 5 kms from pattaya, from where it will be almost impossible to get a meter taxi. The only alternative will be for tourists (and locals) to be gouged by songtheaw mafia to take them to their final destination. If that is the plan (or non-plan) then save the money, as no one will use the link.

This means Mr. Wan, please think this through BEFORE spending taxpayers money... unless (mis) spending taxpayers money is the actual objective of all of this.....

[Searat7]

I recently read that the Airport plan is to stop operating Don Muang as a commercial airport in a couple of years and move the existing airlines back to Suvarnibhumi. This being the case I wonder why they would spend the money for the extension. One ideal scenario might be to have the budget airlines at Don Muang (when link is complete) then they wouldn't need to spend so much money expanding Suvarnibhumi

This is a disgrace.....

Five years for more trains??? Who are they trying to kidd? That isn't a plan, that is a mean joke, on the riders.

Who cares about more commercial space? Is there a problem with people not being able to find a place to shop in Bangkok? No, I didn't think so.

The problem is the service on the Airport Link and people need a solution NOW, not in five, or more, years.

Since when is development of the surrounding area at Makkasan station a Transportation Ministry subject matter? Why is the transportation Ministry involved in development issues at a particular station? Moreover, if development occurs at Makkasan, it will make the poor service even worse because of the increase in ridership.

It seems to me that the Transportation Ministry still does not understand that the Airport Link line is a commuter line for local workers and residents. The huge majority of riders are local residents going to work, shop, or leisure who need a convenient, predictable, and timely train. Tourist make up less than 10% of the ridership.

If the line becomes more rider-friendly for locals, it will automatically become better for tourists.

Thais: you deserve much, much better than this.

Sir, the delivery times for trains is indeed between 3 and 6 years.

Of course, if the Railway Company wants to spend a h*ll of a lot more the whole route can be brought back to 2=3 years.

As for the development of the station areas, the SRT owns the ground and buildings, that is why.

The whole upgrading business is just what you tell them to do, make the line more attractive for commuters and tourists.

The Don Mueang-Suvarnibhumi connection seems to be the best idea.

This could result in a true two connected-airports situation.

Meaning the local traffic could all be diverted to DM, meaning less congestion in Suvarnibhumi.

Not menaioning, of course, the capital loss in DM and less investment in Suvarnibhumi.

The ideas are good.

Now it all depends on what will really happen.

[KED]

I have never used the Airport Train and do not contemplate doing so in the future , but I have had two sets of friends who have holidayed recently in Bangkok and both sets complained about struggling up stairs with their luggage - Surely it makes sense to make usage easier if you are trying to extend that usage .

I think up is not a problem - escalators do go up. However, when you go down from the airport link at Phaya Thai you face only stairs with your luggage - agreed, very poor design.

[LTGTR]

Apparently you missed this important sentence:

Kittisakdi said the ministry would start providing additional trains on November 1 to increase its frequency as planned in the first stage.

This is a disgrace.....

Five years for more trains??? Who are they trying to kidd? That isn't a plan, that is a mean joke, on the riders.

Who cares about more commercial space? Is there a problem with people not being able to find a place to shop in Bangkok? No, I didn't think so.

The problem is the service on the Airport Link and people need a solution NOW, not in five, or more, years.

Since when is development of the surrounding area at Makkasan station a Transportation Ministry subject matter? Why is the transportation Ministry involved in development issues at a particular station? Moreover, if development occurs at Makkasan, it will make the poor service even worse because of the increase in ridership.

It seems to me that the Transportation Ministry still does not understand that the Airport Link line is a commuter line for local workers and residents. The huge majority of riders are local residents going to work, shop, or leisure who need a convenient, predictable, and timely train. Tourist make up less than 10% of the ridership.

If the line becomes more rider-friendly for locals, it will automatically become better for tourists.

Thais: you deserve much, much better than this.

[rubl]

Apparently you missed this important sentence:

Kittisakdi said the ministry would start providing additional trains on November 1 to increase its frequency as planned in the first stage.

I must admit I also missed that sentence, but now that my attention is put on it.

Originally nine trains were ordered and delivered, five 4-car trains for the Express line, four 3-car trains for the City line. Assuming that at this moment all nine trains are in use, what will happen? Will all existing trains run more frequently within a bit more than a month, as Thai style that possibility has already been thought of and tested, or other trains are found somewhere which miraculously can be used without needing to test scheduling of trains, security measures, etc., etc.

Possible, but in this case I will remain in a 'wait and see' mood.

Edited September 22, 2011 by rubl

[ES1]

"Wan Yubamrung chosen to be Mr. Airport Link"chosen to be Mr. Airport Link"

BAHAhahahah. Only a matter of time before they hire someone like OJ Simpson to be the official spokesperson. Maybe they can get Charles Manson released to do public relations....

If that guy actually manages to get elected for that seat his is running for in Bkk then Thailand will offically take the reins away from the USA as having the dumbest voters in the world.

Edited September 22, 2011 by ES1

[Jawnie]

Say what you will, the fact is that tourist with luggage use both lines. They use the Airport Link (commuter line) much more heavily than the Express Train that stops at only two stations.

What if tourists are going to a stop other than the two served by the Express Line? Well, they take the train going to their stop, that's what happens. And there are alot of tourists doing it.

The fact is that planners 'over planned' the line thinking the public could be parsed so closely, when it can't. People go where they want to go and get off at the station they want. The planners missed this, big time, and now the commuting public is paying for that narrow thinking.

It's been obvious for months that more trains and cars were needed on the commuter line portions of the route. The Express Trains running completely empty during peak hours has been a glaring inconsistency for month also. This, while the other trains are over-flowing with passengers. Thais stuck at the station or crammed into over-crowded trains appear so docile in the face of it all. Perhaps some Thais are complaining elsewhere which I'm not aware of. In western countries (the US), this situation would have be resolved a long time ago because the public simply would allow it themselves to be treated so poorly by their own government. It's a disgrace.

It is so maddening to hear someone suggest the passengers are at fault for taking luggage into a station not designed for people with luggage. It's one of the lamest things I've heard in a while.

Was I suggesting the passengers were at fault? I'm just suggesting that passengers need to deal with the fact that the commuter stations are designed for the tens of thousands of people that carry a small bag, and not the tens of people that carry a suitcase.

Do you complain about how difficult it is to get on a Bangkok bus with a suitcase? Have you ever tried getting from a London airport out into the suburbs?

Do I think that it all needs to be improved? Of course it does. But at least it's a step in the right direction.

[ES1]

Its always made me furious - from its initial idea 7 years ago and watching just how ineffective it is today.

The airport Link is a massive Line - And it could have stretched around Bangkok Instead - Ramkhamheang and other areas.

It could have made huge improvements to the CITY, Traffic, pollution, Commuters and actually done some GOOD for the country.

Instead it was linked to the Airport - to take money from the Taxis, and help a few tourists.

What an absolutely selfish money making idea the airport link was.

I will personally Never use it - and hope it rots to the ground. Because the creators could have helped millions of people and changed Bangkok in massive ways - but instead... we have this...

It also helps reduce traffic, pollution. But who cares about that right. It's not like Bkk has traffic/smog problems. Yea, let's just get rid of all these silly rail lines and put more taxi's on the road. That's the wave of the future.

Edited September 22, 2011 by ES1

[captspectre]

Chalerm's son to the rescue. What a government.

Is this the same son who years ago shot a policeman in a pub and then fled to laos and then, changed his name? AND then was aquitted after "witnesses" changed their story?both his sons had a reputation back then.

[notobnoxious]

I hope he does not start fighting or shooting people!

This is a disgrace.....

Five years for more trains??? Who are they trying to kidd? That isn't a plan, that is a mean joke, on the riders.

Who cares about more commercial space? Is there a problem with people not being able to find a place to shop in Bangkok? No, I didn't think so.

The problem is the service on the Airport Link and people need a solution NOW, not in five, or more, years.

Since when is development of the surrounding area at Makkasan station a Transportation Ministry subject matter? Why is the transportation Ministry involved in development issues at a particular station? Moreover, if development occurs at Makkasan, it will make the poor service even worse because of the increase in ridership.

It seems to me that the Transportation Ministry still does not understand that the Airport Link line is a commuter line for local workers and residents. The huge majority of riders are local residents going to work, shop, or leisure who need a convenient, predictable, and timely train. Tourist make up less than 10% of the ridership.

If the line becomes more rider-friendly for locals, it will automatically become better for tourists.

Thais: you deserve much, much better than this.

[thaibeachlovers]

If Wan Yubamrung's former appointment as 'Mr. Toilet', during which his shining aura alone was enough to vastly improve the cleanliness of public toilets in this country, is any indication, his current appointment as 'Mr. Airport Link' surely must catapult the failing service to new magnificent heights.

The right people for the right jobs!

Are you saying that there exists a network of "public toilets" that I have managed to overlook in all my years in LOS? Or are you referring to those provided by such organisations as bus stations etc?

[planr]

Wan hopes that these new measures will boost the dismal number of passengers which is currently at 1,700 for the Express Line and 37,000 for the City Line per day.

He added that the company is planning to procure five more trains, each with four-cars, under a budget of three billion baht in order to efficiently accommodate two million commuters per month as projected.

No doubt a few more trains will lead to an increase of commuters which in it self is good. The CityLine will probably see an increase in commuters anyway. Easier to get into BKK CBD than driving along RamaIX or Phetburi. An increase of people who want to go to/from the airport seems less likely. To suggest that FIVE more trains will lead to an 25-fold increase seems ludicrous.

BTW the company newsflash talks about

"NEWS UPDATE... 22nd September, 2011

Improvement plan for Airport Link service

The Transport Ministry plans to buy five more trains in 2014 to increase the frequency and efficiency of the Airport RaIlRail Link service, the rail route that links Bangkok's central area to Suvarnabhumi Airport." So don't hold your breath.

http://bangkokairpor...n.com/news.html

(Originally nine trains were ordered / delivered, five 4-car Express trains and four 3-car CityLine trains.)

I suggest attending a remedial math class. Combined average daily ridership is currently about 40,000. There are on average, 30 days in a month. Simple multiplication (40,000 x 30) yields a total monthly ridership of 1.2 million at present. The article in this thread suggests that forecasted ridership is expected to be 2 million per month (at some unknown point in the future). This suggests that, by this unknown point, ridership in total will increase by 67% (not 25 times!). The new train sets they are adding by 2014 will effectively double capacity. Let's assume the City Line is running at capacity now and demand will exist by 2014 to fill all of the new train sets. We can then ballpark an estimate that 80,000 people will use both lines on the ARL every day in 2014. Doubling the current ridership would mean 2.4 million riders per month, in line with the forecast.

I'm confused, the airport link should be extended to Pattaya? What about the proposed high speed link to Rayong that would incorporate Pattaya? Are there 2 projects or are they the same?

Me too: interested in the link to Pattaya.

Will it actually stop near pattaya, or 5 kms from pattaya, from where it will be almost impossible to get a meter taxi. The only alternative will be for tourists (and locals) to be gouged by songtheaw mafia to take them to their final destination. If that is the plan (or non-plan) then save the money, as no one will use the link.

This means Mr. Wan, please think this through BEFORE spending taxpayers money... unless (mis) spending taxpayers money is the actual objective of all of this.....

The previous administration's plans for High Speed Rail called for a line from Bangkok to Chonburi / Rayong and presumably passing through Pattaya. The new administration wants to modify the original plan by providing a service closer to that of the ARL Express Line (fast and comfortable, but not the same level of service as HSR). This change is in line with previous rail studies from the 1990s which suggests that a fast train (but not true HSR) would be feasible for that route, whereas HSR would be too expensive / not worth the investment. While common sense ALMOST seems to be prevailing, I am sure there are behind-the-scenes machinations happening where PT and their friends stand to gain from a non-HSR line.

That said, current HSR lines being developed in other countries in recent years (namely China and Taiwan) typically have stations located outside of major urban areas where land is cheap and there are no impediments to development. The exceptions are major cities at the termini of the lines. For example, both Taipei and Kaoshiung have inner-city HSR stations, but all other stations along the route are located quite far from the actual cities. This is most evident in the case of Taichung, where I believe there are about 2 million people, yet the station is a solid 20 minute DRIVE from the CBD, with no good public transport access otherwise.

What this means is that, despite it being a poor practice from a logical standpoint (maximizing ridership) a station in Pattaya will very likely exist somewhere on the periphery and will need to be serviced by taxis / buses / songtaews... but hey, TIT, anything can happen!

Edited September 23, 2011 by planr

[rubl]

Wan hopes that these new measures will boost the dismal number of passengers which is currently at 1,700 for the Express Line and 37,000 for the City Line per day.

He added that the company is planning to procure five more trains, each with four-cars, under a budget of three billion baht in order to efficiently accommodate two million commuters per month as projected.

No doubt a few more trains will lead to an increase of commuters which in it self is good. The CityLine will probably see an increase in commuters anyway. Easier to get into BKK CBD than driving along RamaIX or Phetburi. An increase of people who want to go to/from the airport seems less likely. To suggest that FIVE more trains will lead to an 25-fold increase seems ludicrous.

BTW the company newsflash talks about

"NEWS UPDATE... 22nd September, 2011

Improvement plan for Airport Link service

The Transport Ministry plans to buy five more trains in 2014 to increase the frequency and efficiency of the Airport RaIlRail Link service, the rail route that links Bangkok's central area to Suvarnabhumi Airport." So don't hold your breath.

http://bangkokairpor...n.com/news.html

(Originally nine trains were ordered / delivered, five 4-car Express trains and four 3-car CityLine trains.)

I suggest attending a remedial math class. Combined average daily ridership is currently about 40,000. There are on average, 30 days in a month. Simple multiplication (40,000 x 30) yields a total monthly ridership of 1.2 million at present. The article in this thread suggests that forecasted ridership is expected to be 2 million per month (at some unknown point in the future). This suggests that, by this unknown point, ridership in total will increase by 67% (not 25 times!). The new train sets they are adding by 2014 will effectively double capacity. Let's assume the City Line is running at capacity now and demand will exist by 2014 to fill all of the new train sets. We can then ballpark an estimate that 80,000 people will use both lines on the ARL every day in 2014. Doubling the current ridership would mean 2.4 million riders per month, in line with the forecast.

I stand corrected on the rider math

Still with 5 4-car trains, 4 3-car trains, adding FIVE more trains (of 3 or 4-car length) is not doubling the capacity.

Five more cars will be 'bought' in 2014, no delivery date. So, also no date on when 2M, or even 2.4M /month can be reached.

The capacity addition promised for the 1st of November is not detailed.

Edited September 23, 2011 by rubl

[planr]

Wan hopes that these new measures will boost the dismal number of passengers which is currently at 1,700 for the Express Line and 37,000 for the City Line per day.

He added that the company is planning to procure five more trains, each with four-cars, under a budget of three billion baht in order to efficiently accommodate two million commuters per month as projected.

No doubt a few more trains will lead to an increase of commuters which in it self is good. The CityLine will probably see an increase in commuters anyway. Easier to get into BKK CBD than driving along RamaIX or Phetburi. An increase of people who want to go to/from the airport seems less likely. To suggest that FIVE more trains will lead to an 25-fold increase seems ludicrous.

BTW the company newsflash talks about

"NEWS UPDATE... 22nd September, 2011

Improvement plan for Airport Link service

The Transport Ministry plans to buy five more trains in 2014 to increase the frequency and efficiency of the Airport RaIlRail Link service, the rail route that links Bangkok's central area to Suvarnabhumi Airport." So don't hold your breath.

http://bangkokairpor...n.com/news.html

(Originally nine trains were ordered / delivered, five 4-car Express trains and four 3-car CityLine trains.)

I suggest attending a remedial math class. Combined average daily ridership is currently about 40,000. There are on average, 30 days in a month. Simple multiplication (40,000 x 30) yields a total monthly ridership of 1.2 million at present. The article in this thread suggests that forecasted ridership is expected to be 2 million per month (at some unknown point in the future). This suggests that, by this unknown point, ridership in total will increase by 67% (not 25 times!). The new train sets they are adding by 2014 will effectively double capacity. Let's assume the City Line is running at capacity now and demand will exist by 2014 to fill all of the new train sets. We can then ballpark an estimate that 80,000 people will use both lines on the ARL every day in 2014. Doubling the current ridership would mean 2.4 million riders per month, in line with the forecast.

I stand corrected on the rider math

Still with 5 4-car trains, 4 3-car trains, adding FIVE more trains (of 3 or 4-car length) is not doubling the capacity.

Five more cars will be 'bought' in 2014, no delivery date. So, also no date on when 2M, or even 2.4M /month can be reached.

The capacity addition promised for the 1st of November is not detailed.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4715468

Presumably the new train sets will be added to the City Line because that is where 95% of current demand is (and should likely be in the near future), so I suspect it will substantially increase capacity. What really gets me is how they can add put that many more trains in operation on EITHER line and keep things running smoothly. As I understand it (directly from the Ops Director of the SRTET), the frequencies cannot be substantially increased at this point because of how the Express and City Lines share most of the track with only a few bypass routes. While operations is not my forte in the transport world, I would assume that adding more cars to existing trains, such as coupling new 3-car sets to the existing City Line 3-car sets to make 6-car sets is more logical. But I guess we will see!

[rogerdee123]

To understand these big projects in Thailand it's best to remember that the engineering and managerial issues seldom enter the equation at the planning stages, it's all about money. Whose construction company gets the job ... who can buy the land (and then resell it at inflated prices to the project), who has the contract for supplying the train and cars, etc etc etc .... all those issues about passenger flow, escalators etc are simply the trivial ones not important. Would it surprise you if there was indeed money provided for those escalators etc .... which were not built?

[Buchholz]

"Wan Yubamrung chosen to be Mr. Airport Link"chosen to be Mr. Airport Link"

BAHAhahahah.

Mr. Happy Toilet goes on to become Mr. Airport Link

[Theoutsider]

Used it for the first time today, liked it.

[Theoutsider]

just so I dont sound like thai apoligest. I did not like the 10 min wait for the train. I did not like traveling with the great unwashed, they looked like reds. they dont know how to cue i had to atack them with my luggage. it cost me £1 to asok. And no one asked me to if I wanted to go to tiger kingdom. Seriously now, wh

[Theoutsider]

Seriously now, when I was back home in London I rember a gang of rudeboys rushing all the carriges of the tube from kilburn to willesden green mugging every on the train,oh the fun.

[planr]

To understand these big projects in Thailand it's best to remember that the engineering and managerial issues seldom enter the equation at the planning stages, it's all about money. Whose construction company gets the job ... who can buy the land (and then resell it at inflated prices to the project), who has the contract for supplying the train and cars, etc etc etc .... all those issues about passenger flow, escalators etc are simply the trivial ones not important. Would it surprise you if there was indeed money provided for those escalators etc .... which were not built?

This is partially true. Engineering and managerial issues are absolutely taken into account in the initial planning phases as well as much of the implementation. You are correct that certain "interventions" between the time the shovel hits the ground and the project becomes operational can and do have negative impacts on operations.