October 15, 201114 yr I haven't been following this too closely, but it keeps coming up in the news. It's now gone global. Over the last 30 years, the 1% have created a global economic system - neoliberalism - that attacks our human rights and destroys our environment. Neoliberalism is worldwide - it is the reason you no longer have a job, it is the reason you cannot afford healthcare, education, food, your mortgage. Neoliberalism is your future stolen. Neoliberalism is everywhere, gutting labor standards, living wages, social contracts, and environmental protections. http://occupywallst.org/ What's this all about and what's your take on it?
October 15, 201114 yr These are the same anti-capitalist people as the anti-war protesters of 8 years ago. In some cases the exact same people but with the latest generation of college students who think taking to the streets is sooo cool. http://www.answercoa...onal/index.html
October 15, 201114 yr I sympathise all along the line... but are street protests an effective measure? What else is there? It looks as if the next US president is going to be a fairly right-wing Republican, unlikely to be too sympathetic... unless some charismatic man of the people can appear out of the blue. And we're discussing Europe's problems in another thread.
October 15, 201114 yr Personally, I quite like globalisation. I enjoy being able to travel round the world for my holidays, being able to live thousands of miles away in a foreign country, being able to invest my savings for a pension in the future. I enjoy working for a large corporation, where we all do our own little bit for the whole. I will miss the capital markets, and freedom of opportunity when the socialists and anarchists redraw the global map. I'm sure lots of pensioners will, as well. I'm grateful for the bankers that process the payments for oil to fuel the planes that carry me, for the chaps who administer the loans for off-shore workers who produce my oil to buy property in remote countries with their foreign families. I don't think I would like to wind the clock back to the eighteenth century, nor to live in a socialist dictatorship. Sadly, in the dictatorship of the people, in the revolutionary democratic republics, people like me don't get even a pretence of a vote. SC At least in Thailand I can vote with my feet...
October 15, 201114 yr Those demonstrating are the great unwashed that have been gathered up from the unemployment roles, liberal colleges, anarchists, labor unions and George Soros endowed think tanks. They seem to be part of Obama's reelection campaign and are there to demonstrate against the Tea Party Republicans, bankers and the free enterprise system in general. Some have nicknamed them The Flea Party. Following is part of an editorial by Charles Krauthammer that cuts right to the bone on this. It is a waste of time on everybody's part and a needless expense to the cities involved. _______________________________________________________ OWS' Program? Distract From Dems' Failures By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER Posted 10/14/2011 06:07 PM ET What do you do if you can't run on your record — on 9% unemployment, stagnant growth and ruinous deficits as far as the eye can see? How to run when you are asked whether Americans are better off than they were four years ago and you are compelled to answer no? Play the outsider. Declare yourself the underdog. Denounce Washington as if the electorate hasn't noticed that you've been in charge for nearly three years. But above all: Find villains. President Obama first tried finding excuses, blaming America's dismal condition on Japanese supply-chain interruptions, the Arab Spring, European debt and various acts of God. Didn't work. Sounds plaintive, defensive. Lacks fight, which is what Obama's base lusts for above all. Hence Obama's new strategy: Don't whine, blame. Attack. Indict. Accuse. Read more here: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=588155&p=1
October 15, 201114 yr As I said in another, closed, thread, the protesters are largely a bunch of stoned out malcontents intent on revolution for the hell of it. The unions and politicians are trying to latch onto the protester's "movement" and upsurp it for their own agenda, but the original protesters are mostly a mish-mash of off-beat causes with no direction. The whole thing reminds me off the constant protests by 60s style oddballs in San Francisco that happen at the drop of a hat or for no reason at all. Occupy Wall Street is pointless and undefined, but quickly becoming very fashionable if that counts for anything.
October 15, 201114 yr Those demonstrating are the great unwashed that have been gathered up from the unemployment roles, liberal colleges, anarchists, labor unions and George Soros endowed think tanks. They seem to be part of Obama's reelection campaign and are there to demonstrate against the Tea Party Republicans, bankers and the free enterprise system in general. Some have nicknamed them The Flea Party. Following is part of an editorial by Charles Krauthammer that cuts right to the bone on this. It is a waste of time on everybody's part and a needless expense to the cities involved. _______________________________________________________ OWS' Program? Distract From Dems' Failures By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER Posted 10/14/2011 06:07 PM ET What do you do if you can't run on your record — on 9% unemployment, stagnant growth and ruinous deficits as far as the eye can see? How to run when you are asked whether Americans are better off than they were four years ago and you are compelled to answer no? Play the outsider. Declare yourself the underdog. Denounce Washington as if the electorate hasn't noticed that you've been in charge for nearly three years. But above all: Find villains. President Obama first tried finding excuses, blaming America's dismal condition on Japanese supply-chain interruptions, the Arab Spring, European debt and various acts of God. Didn't work. Sounds plaintive, defensive. Lacks fight, which is what Obama's base lusts for above all. Hence Obama's new strategy: Don't whine, blame. Attack. Indict. Accuse. Read more here: http://www.investors...x?id=588155&p=1 The reason Americans are worse off now than they were four years ago is because they and their government lived the good times on borrowed money, without the productive capability to pay it back. When the lending was no longer available to support asset inflation, when the Emperor's New Clothes were seen for the systematic shakey lending deals that they were, the asset prices collapsed, while the debts remain. THat is a fault of the borrowers and lenders, not the system, but sadly, the least we can hope for is greater regulation and impediment to productive business, while some amongst us seem determined to drive us back to the financial stone age of isolationism, protectionism and socialism. SC
October 15, 201114 yr Author The Flea Party, I like that! And now I can bring my dog, too. I enjoyed the protests of the 60's, especially in SF. I was never sure what I was protesting, but the drugs were really quite good. My chances of being part of the 1% are pretty slim and my investments are pretty minimal.
October 15, 201114 yr I sympathise all along the line... but are street protests an effective measure? What else is there? Well there is the greatest weapon of all....Remove their faith .,,Stop feeding the beast Many seem to think it is all about capitalism.....While many protesters are as many here think folks who just claim inequality of wealth.... The truth is it goes much deeper. Many today are waking up to the fact that the government have been complacent & complicit when it comes to financial/monetary policy. Many for instance have finally realized how the FED a privately held entity controls. Many have seen banks & hedge funds take billions in handouts as their losses get transferred to the citizens bill. That is just one thing....There are many more. Not least of which is the disregard for our Constitution. Yes I agree standing in the streets will not be effective as they will ultimately be ignored.But initially it helps to wake others. They will all learn & grow teeth. They can crush the system very easily...They just don't know it yet.
October 15, 201114 yr I sympathise all along the line... but are street protests an effective measure? What else is there? Well there is the greatest weapon of all....Remove their faith .,,Stop feeding the beast Many seem to think it is all about capitalism.....While many protesters are as many here think folks who just claim inequality of wealth.... The truth is it goes much deeper. Many today are waking up to the fact that the government have been complacent & complicit when it comes to financial/monetary policy. Many for instance have finally realized how the FED a privately held entity controls. Many have seen banks & hedge funds take billions in handouts as their losses get transferred to the citizens bill. That is just one thing....There are many more. Not least of which is the disregard for our Constitution. Yes I agree standing in the streets will not be effective as they will ultimately be ignored.But initially it helps to wake others. They will all learn & grow teeth. They can crush the system very easily...They just don't know it yet. RISE UP! DESTROY THE SYSTEM! OVERTHROW THE PENSION PLANS! ANNIHILATE TRACE WITH FOREIGNERS! without me, though. SC
October 15, 201114 yr RISE UP! DESTROY THE SYSTEM! OVERTHROW THE PENSION PLANS! ANNIHILATE TRACE WITH FOREIGNERS! without me, though. SC Silly to yell about something being destroyed that has been beautifully broken for quite sometime now. The only thing they may stop now is the final transfer of wealth to those who instigated it. You will soon realize that we are in a controlled crash. You will also realize...at this point.... with or without you doing anything the end result is the same.
October 15, 201114 yr You will also realize...at this point.... with or without you doing anything the end result is the same. So the Thais have it right when they say 'mai bpen rai'. Bring on the som tam...
October 15, 201114 yr So the Thais have it right when they say 'mai bpen rai'. Bring on the som tam... Basically yes.....But the last 2-3 years have been a gift Good for preparing At least the Thai's will as always be happy with just Som Tam Not the same for those who have had a soft life & suddenly need to adapt.
October 15, 201114 yr They can crush the system very easily... True and replace it with anarchy which will leave everyone even worse off.
October 15, 201114 yr Author It was nice of the government to help out the big corporations because they were 'too big to fail.' But isn't the US government itself too big too fail?
October 16, 201114 yr It was nice of the government to help out the big corporations because they were 'too big to fail.' But isn't the US government itself too big too fail? That is the fool's paradise we've been living in. I'm sure Greeks thought their Government was too big to fail. The fact that USA is so much bigger than Greece means that the crash will be that much bigger when it comes; it will take the financial systems of the world with it. I don't believe an economy based on debt can last for ever (much though most of us would like it to). There was somebody 'up there' to help out the big corporations; who will help the USA?
October 16, 201114 yr They can crush the system very easily... True and replace it with anarchy which will leave everyone even worse off. Not necessarily The USA has a beautiful Constitution & if returned to...it would serve as well as it originally was intended & did serve. There have been States that have mentioned invoking that right. It would be a good step. As for worse off....You have not yet seen the result of where this current collapse is headed so I would reserve judgment. There is only two choices really...Stop the expansion that brought us to our knees NOW & try to salvage what is possible. Yes there will be pain involved...But that is the nature of paying the piper. Any bankrupt individual suffers initially. It is no different for countries. Or continue to kick the can & realize total collapse.
October 16, 201114 yr As I said in another, closed, thread, the protesters are largely a bunch of stoned out malcontents intent on revolution for the hell of it. The unions and politicians are trying to latch onto the protester's "movement" and upsurp it for their own agenda, but the original protesters are mostly a mish-mash of off-beat causes with no direction. The whole thing reminds me off the constant protests by 60s style oddballs in San Francisco that happen at the drop of a hat or for no reason at all. Occupy Wall Street is pointless and undefined, but quickly becoming very fashionable if that counts for anything. Got that right Georgie. A better term for them is COWS - commies occupying wall st.
October 16, 201114 yr Nazis and Communists Throw Their Support Behind Occupy Wall Street Movements http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-nazi-party-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street-movement/
October 16, 201114 yr ...for the most part these occupiers are idealistic brats who have really never had to stand on their own at any time in their lives. They are being co-opted by experienced activists from various groups – labor, ecological, socialist, communist – who see minds ripe for rape and exploitation.We’ve seen demonstrations like this before. As George Will writes: “From 1965 through 1968 the left found its voice and style in consciousness-raising demonstrations and disruptions. In November 1968, the nation, its consciousness raised, elected Richard Nixon President and gave 56.9 percent of the popular vote to Nixon or George Wallace. Republicans won four of the next five presidential elections.” http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2011/oct/14/keep-protests-going/
October 16, 201114 yr Nazis and Communists Throw Their Support Behind Occupy Wall Street Movements http://www.thegatewa...treet-movement/ One's opinions are given credibility by those that share them SC
October 16, 201114 yr They can crush the system very easily... True and replace it with anarchy which will leave everyone even worse off. Not necessarily The USA has a beautiful Constitution & if returned to...it would serve as well as it originally was intended & did serve. These kids are not going to elect Ron Paul. They are more the Al Franken or Michael Moore crowd.
October 16, 201114 yr There is only two choices really...Stop the expansion that brought us to our knees NOW & try to salvage what is possible. Yes there will be pain involved...But that is the nature of paying the piper. Any bankrupt individual suffers initially. It is no different for countries. Or continue to kick the can & realize total collapse. I agree, Flying. But I think the US Constitution, great document though it is, is too idealistic ever to be put into practice. The protesters may be all sorts of left-wing weirdos, Nazis, Commies, spaced-out druggies.... but what kind of society has created them? They didn't just appear out of nowhere. They are indeed a symptom of the society which produced them.
October 16, 201114 yr In the US, it does seem like a good opportunity for an independant cantidate with some credibility to throw his hat into the ring for the next presidential race and maybe get some focus on the real issues existing and looming ahead........but who??.
October 16, 201114 yr I sort of agree with them that no one should be earning 1,000 times more than someone else, but have no idea how to enforce that without stifling creativity. Also, if everyone was guaranteed a comfortable living even if they did not work a lot of people would not work and that probably includes me. Who would support the rest of society?
October 16, 201114 yr There is only two choices really...Stop the expansion that brought us to our knees NOW & try to salvage what is possible. Yes there will be pain involved...But that is the nature of paying the piper. Any bankrupt individual suffers initially. It is no different for countries. Or continue to kick the can & realize total collapse. I agree, Flying. But I think the US Constitution, great document though it is, is too idealistic ever to be put into practice. The protesters may be all sorts of left-wing weirdos, Nazis, Commies, spaced-out druggies.... but what kind of society has created them? They didn't just appear out of nowhere. They are indeed a symptom of the society which produced them. Some people trace the left-wing weirdos back to the original 'Great Society' of Lyndon Johnson that began the real welfare state in the US. When 40% of the population is on some form of government welfare and 50% of them pay no taxes, there might be something wrong within this sort of society. Free enterprise will prevail soon enough and these thugs will crawl back into the holes they emerged from, with their hands ever extended for yet another handout. Flea Party, indeed.
October 16, 201114 yr The following article might help explain where all the protests are coming from and partially explain who is behind them... ______________________________________________________ Obama plans to turn anti-Wall Street anger on Mitt Romney, Republicans By Peter Wallsten, Published: October 15 President Obama and his team have decided to turn public anger at Wall Street into a central tenet of their reelection strategy. The move comes as the Occupy Wall Street protests gain momentum across the country and as polls show deep public distrust of the nation’s major financial institutions. And it sets up what strategists see as a potent line of attack against Republican front-runner Mitt Romney, a former investment executive whom Obama aides plan to portray as a wealthy Wall Street sympathizer. Many Democrats consider Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, the greatest threat to Obama when it comes to wooing centrist independents next year, and Romney this week has begun to present himself as a champion of middle-income Americans. Read more here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obama-plans-to-turn-anti-wall-street-anger-on-mitt-romney-republicans/2011/10/14/gIQAZfiwkL_print.html
October 16, 201114 yr Nazis and Communists Throw Their Support Behind Occupy Wall Street Movements http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/figures-nazi-party-throws-support-behind-occupy-wall-street-movement/ Koheesti: Besides the Nazis and the Communist Party, the protests are gaining ground in Hollywood. "Of course, Penn is not opposed to all protest movements: “I applaud the spirit of what’s happening now on Wall Street.” Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2011/10/15/sean-penn-calls-tea-party-get-n-word-out-white-house-party-which-wants#ixzz1avxJaOY1
October 16, 201114 yr The following article might help explain where all the protests are coming from and partially explain who is behind them... ______________________________________________________ Obama plans to turn anti-Wall Street anger on Mitt Romney, Republicans By Peter Wallsten, Published: October 15 President Obama and his team have decided to turn public anger at Wall Street into a central tenet of their reelection strategy. The move comes as the Occupy Wall Street protests gain momentum across the country and as polls show deep public distrust of the nation's major financial institutions. And it sets up what strategists see as a potent line of attack against Republican front-runner Mitt Romney, a former investment executive whom Obama aides plan to portray as a wealthy Wall Street sympathizer. Many Democrats consider Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, the greatest threat to Obama when it comes to wooing centrist independents next year, and Romney this week has begun to present himself as a champion of middle-income Americans. Read more here: http://www.washingto...iwkL_print.html Obama is wooing the protesters; Romney is wooing the protesters. And who will bankroll both sides in the election campaign? Precisely the people the protesters are attacking.
October 16, 201114 yr I sort of agree with them that no one should be earning 1,000 times more than someone else, but have no idea how to enforce that without stifling creativity. Also, if everyone was guaranteed a comfortable living even if they did not work a lot of people would not work and that probably includes me. Who would support the rest of society? Ask the British Labour Party that question; they created a leisure society where people get paid for not working. The best option is to be an unemployed immigrant in Britain.
Create an account or sign in to comment