October 16, 201114 yr The following article might help explain where all the protests are coming from and partially explain who is behind them... ______________________________________________________ Obama plans to turn anti-Wall Street anger on Mitt Romney, Republicans By Peter Wallsten, Published: October 15 President Obama and his team have decided to turn public anger at Wall Street into a central tenet of their reelection strategy. The move comes as the Occupy Wall Street protests gain momentum across the country and as polls show deep public distrust of the nation's major financial institutions. And it sets up what strategists see as a potent line of attack against Republican front-runner Mitt Romney, a former investment executive whom Obama aides plan to portray as a wealthy Wall Street sympathizer. Many Democrats consider Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, the greatest threat to Obama when it comes to wooing centrist independents next year, and Romney this week has begun to present himself as a champion of middle-income Americans. Read more here: http://www.washingto...iwkL_print.html Obama is wooing the protesters; Romney is wooing the protesters. And who will bankroll both sides in the election campaign? Precisely the people the protesters are attacking. I haven't heard of Romney wooing the protesters. If he did, it would be a waste of effort on his part. The protesters are straight line Democratic Party voters and/or union members, who are mainly Democratic followers as well. You are right about the bank rollers, however.
October 16, 201114 yr "Romney sought to show solidarity with the demonstrators...." in your link, Chuck. Maybe that's not quite wooing them, but it's pretty close.
October 16, 201114 yr Obama is wooing the protesters; Romney is wooing the protesters. And who will bankroll both sides in the election campaign? Precisely the people the protesters are attacking. If the Flea Party ever comes to this conclusion their heads will collectively explode.
October 16, 201114 yr "Romney sought to show solidarity with the demonstrators...." in your link, Chuck. Maybe that's not quite wooing them, but it's pretty close. You got me there. I simply overlooked it. I still think it would be a mistake as well as a waste of time for him to solicit the support of these groups.
October 17, 201114 yr The protesters may be all sorts of left-wing weirdos, Nazis, Commies, spaced-out druggies.... but what kind of society has created them? They didn't just appear out of nowhere. They are indeed a symptom of the society which produced them. I didn't expect people to agree that the protesters are all sorts of leftwing weirdos etc... because I don't think so myself! Left-wing, yes; idealistic rather than hard-headed and down-to-earth. The real danger is if ordinary people fed up with the system start to join them (and I think they have). Whatever, they are indeed a symptom of our society... and society should be looking for ways of curing that symptom, not sweeping it under the carpet (sorry for mixed metaphors). That Obama and Romney are in some sense wooing them is all to the good.... but it's too little, too late. .
October 17, 201114 yr If you look at the rest of the world, I'm not sure that the nuts and the loons can be blamed on "society". It is pretty much the human condition and comes along with freedom of speech.
October 17, 201114 yr There are a number of YouTube videos on the web concerning the protests. Here are a few links to brighten your day. Make up your own mind about the participants. My mind is already made up. What's with all the chanting? I haven't seen any of that since grade school. ____________________________________________________ Chanting and hand signs from Atlanta? ____________________________________________________ From Portland. More to follow later.
October 17, 201114 yr Here are two links from the Left Coast, bordering the Pacific. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waG_Ltx6r0A&feature=related
October 17, 201114 yr You can't have a good protest without Michael Moore and Keith Olberman From the far, far left we have Keith Olberman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zJsN2Hmwi0&feature=related ______________________________________________________ Michael Moore dropped in for a chat.
October 17, 201114 yr Lastly, for your listening pleasure, we have this touch of classical music. Warning...BAD LANGUAGE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeuGx8PplAo
October 17, 201114 yr If you look at the rest of the world, I'm not sure that the nuts and the loons can be blamed on "society". It is pretty much the human condition and comes along with freedom of speech. That too, UG. Two points about your videos, Chuck. First, people who take videos look for the picturesque, the weird, the photogenic, and the well-known. The normals hardly get a look-in. I would even say that many videos will have been taken to reinforce preconceived ideas of what the protesters are, just as any newspaper uses photos which support its viewpoint. Second, not all the demos are in the US... many other countries have copied, if not exactly duplicated, the US demos.
October 17, 201114 yr Two points about your videos, Chuck. First, people who take videos look for the picturesque, the weird, the photogenic, and the well-known. The normals hardly get a look-in. I would even say that many videos will have been taken to reinforce preconceived ideas of what the protesters are, just as any newspaper uses photos which support its viewpoint. Second, not all the demos are in the US... many other countries have copied, if not exactly duplicated, the US demos. I wasn't joking when I said these were the same anti-war protesting groups of 2003. That's why you see what you see in those videos above and that's why it is around the world. Normal people don't have to join the Flea Party. They have been protesting bank buyouts since 2009 and are called the Tea Party. This latest Occupy is just the left's way of counteracting it and trying to make the movement its own. Where the Dems will screw up is by supporting these radical violent leftist anti-capitalist nutjobs is that they will lose the independent center voters and not see the inside of the White House again for a decade plus except as a visitor.
October 17, 201114 yr "...Normal people don't have to join the Flea Party. They have been protesting bank buyouts since 2009 and are called the Tea Party. " So the Tea Party is normal?
October 17, 201114 yr I think he means because they have protests where they get the legal permits and obey the law with no violence.
October 17, 201114 yr "...Normal people don't have to join the Flea Party. They have been protesting bank buyouts since 2009 and are called the Tea Party. " So the Tea Party is normal? Yes, it is. Much more middle America than these protesters.
October 17, 201114 yr If you look at the rest of the world, I'm not sure that the nuts and the loons can be blamed on "society". It is pretty much the human condition and comes along with freedom of speech. That too, UG. Two points about your videos, Chuck. First, people who take videos look for the picturesque, the weird, the photogenic, and the well-known. The normals hardly get a look-in. I would even say that many videos will have been taken to reinforce preconceived ideas of what the protesters are, just as any newspaper uses photos which support its viewpoint. Second, not all the demos are in the US... many other countries have copied, if not exactly duplicated, the US demos. On to your two points... On your first point, are you saying these events were staged somehow or did not occur? What about that chanting in Atlanta and other places? That could hardly be called 'normal' in any adult context. As to your second point, this is what you said in post number 3 on this thread... "I sympathise all along the line... but are street protests an effective measure? What else is there? It looks as if the next US president is going to be a fairly right-wing Republican, unlikely to be too sympathetic... unless some charismatic man of the people can appear out of the blue. And we're discussing Europe's problems in another thread." I did not seek European protest videos simply because I considered this thread more related to those in the US. My mistake for not including other nations. Here is one of them: _____________________________________________________ Rome counts costs of worst street violence in years Oct 16 11:48 AM US/Eastern Rome's worst street violence in years injured 135 people and caused damage of one million euros ($1.4 million) to public property, officials said on Sunday, as the clashes ignited a political row. "We have to act with appropriate toughness against these animals," Mayor Gianni Alemanno said, as he visited the area around St John Lateran square near the city centre that was devastated by the violence on Saturday. "There was a million (euros) in damages to public property and you have to factor in damage to private property too," he said, adding that the city would seek government money to compensate private citizens for their losses. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.ac61265bedd2a8109263975ce8276c0c.401&show_article=1 ________________________________________________________ One more here: My apologies for using the Daily Mail but they do have good photo spreads. Day of 'Global Revolution' comes to London as thousands of demonstrators take over the City By LEE MORAN Last updated at 7:04 PM on 15th October 2011 Protesters inspired by the growing 'Occupy Wall Street' movement in the U.S have today taken over the City of London. Thousands have descended on the area known as the Square Mile - under the banner 'Occupy the Stock Exchange' - for a 'peaceful protest' against the global financial system. They had planned to take Paternoster Square, where the Stock Exchange is located, but police cordoned off the area prior to the protest. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049486/Global-protests-Occupy-London-Stock-Exchange-takes-City.html#ixzz1b2hllbG1
October 17, 201114 yr "...Normal people don't have to join the Flea Party. They have been protesting bank buyouts since 2009 and are called the Tea Party. " So the Tea Party is normal? Well, normal people just sit at home on the couch eating junk food, watching reality TV and can't even name the Vice President - or even care - so I guess, no, they aren't normal. But at least they are actually working taxpayers who love their country and as chuckd said, go about protesting in a legal fashion unlike the Flea Party.
October 17, 201114 yr Sorry, folks, but this protest thing is getting sillier and sillier. This is becoming almost laughable. After only five weeks of protests, the leaders in NY are now trying to decide what their demands should be. Put another way, they might be saying..."Why are we doing this again?" ______________________________________________________ Protesters Debate What Demands, if Any, to Make By MEREDITH HOFFMAN Published: October 16, 2011 In a quiet corner across the street from Zuccotti Park, a cluster of 25 solemn-faced protesters struggled one night to give Occupy Wall Street what critics have found to be most lacking. “We absolutely need demands,” said Shawn Redden, 35, an earnest history teacher in the group. “Like Frederick Douglass said, ‘Power concedes nothing without a demand.’ ” The influence and staying power of Occupy Wall Street are undeniable: similar movements have sprouted around the world, as the original group enters its fifth week in the financial district. Yet a frequent criticism of the protesters has been the absence of specific policy demands. You really need to read more here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/nyregion/occupy-wall-street-trying-to-settle-on-demands.html?_r=2&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065
October 17, 201114 yr “Demands are disempowering since they require someone else to respond,” said Gabriel Willow, a protester strolling past a sleeping-bag pod of young adults in the park last Monday. “It’s not like we couldn’t come up with any, but I don’t think people would vote for them.” I'm sure that Michael Moore will be happy to define their "movement" for them.
October 17, 201114 yr It is interesting to watch this.... Basically the media prism is doing the same as always. It seems instead of the issues at hand they are successfully getting quite a few to take the bait of yet another left vs right mentality. Same as they do at election time. At the end of the day whether it is the Tea Party (the original express & before version not the hijacked version ) Or the occupy movements that are now in other countries as well. This is not a Left vs Right....Not a Republican vs Democrat It is the media prism that now as always tries to label & distort TPTB also likes the divide & conquer technique as it gives the illusion of choice same as every four years.
October 17, 201114 yr This is not a Left vs Right....Not a Republican vs Democrat No, it isn't. It is Capitalism vs Communism/Socialism. The majority of Democrats love their country as much as flag-waving Republicans. Of course there are major policy issues but at the end of the day Reps and Dems are Americans. These Flea Partiers would rejoice at Capitalism's (re:America's) downfall - maybe moreso than the most anti-American poster on TV.
October 17, 201114 yr This is not a Left vs Right....Not a Republican vs Democrat No, it isn't. It is Capitalism vs Communism/Socialism. I bet the Swedes, Danes and Norwegians (and probably the Dutch) are quite surprised that they're Communists.
October 18, 201114 yr This is not a Left vs Right....Not a Republican vs Democrat No, it isn't. It is Capitalism vs Communism/Socialism. I bet the Swedes, Danes and Norwegians (and probably the Dutch) are quite surprised that they're Communists. There is a segment of (various Western) society that works for a living that is still unhappy with the way things are going but they DO NOT share the same views as the Flea Party who has hijacked their cause. Europeans are closer to the communist ideal that the American protesters long for but that doesn't mean they are one and the same.
October 18, 201114 yr Chuck, I didn't say the videos were staged; I said that the people who took the videos were selective. Yes, I did say European problems were being discussed on another thread... but since then the 'occupy Wall Street' movement seems to have developed a life of its own. So I withdraw that comment! Protesters have no demands.... daft, I agree. But the protests don't seem to be left/right; they are against capitalism as it has developed (not necessarily capitalism per se). There is certainly an element of "Society has given us nothing else to do (or taken away our jobs), so we might as well stay here!" It is certainly not about loving/not loving one's country, as someone suggested; you can love your country just as much without loving the way it is run. Violence.... in Rome (Italians tend to be a bit more emotional), not in London, except the odd scuffle which is bound to happen when police are controlling a crowd. Nice lot of pics from the Daily Mail. I like UG's quote "Demands are disempowering etc"... but it would have been nicer to know where it came from.
October 18, 201114 yr Protesters have no demands.... daft, I agree. But the protests don't seem to be left/right; they are against capitalism as it has developed (not necessarily capitalism per se). There is certainly an element of "Society has given us nothing else to do (or taken away our jobs), so we might as well stay here!" It is certainly not about loving/not loving one's country, as someone suggested; you can love your country just as much without loving the way it is run. America is Capitalism. For these protestors want to destroy capitalism is the same as destroying their country. Like Michelle Obama who felt proud of her country for the first time only after her husband was nominated to be president, these protestors hold their homeland in disdain. That's pretty much fact.
October 18, 201114 yr I like UG's quote "Demands are disempowering etc"... but it would have been nicer to know where it came from. From the New York Times article and link in the post right above mine. :jap:
October 18, 201114 yr “Demands are disempowering since they require someone else to respond,” said Gabriel Willow, a protester strolling past a sleeping-bag pod of young adults in the park last Monday. “It’s not like we couldn’t come up with any, but I don’t think people would vote for them.” I'm sure that Michael Moore will be happy to define their "movement" for them. UG - it's known as a bowel movement.
November 9, 201114 yr I am not a fan of Stephen Colbert, but this is funny: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/401092/october-31-2011/colbert-super-pac---occupy-wall-street-co-optportunity---stephen-on-location
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