Foreign Press Criticizes Thai Govt Flood Management

[webfact]

Foreigner Community Criticizes Govt Flood Management

Despite Bangkok having been spared by the flood, the foreign press is criticizing the government for its poor crisis management, particularly regarding its warning system.

Quoting the Agriculture Minister, Theera Wongsamut, the foreign press has reported that most of the flood water has already flown into the Gulf of Thailand.

Consequently, most parts of Bangkok have been spared from the deluge.

The foreign press praised the cooperation between the Thai citizen volunteers and the armed forces for assisting the victims in the country's worst flood crisis in 50 years.

Conversely, the press criticized Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and the government for failing to react to the crisis in a timely manner.

As a result, World Heritage sites and five major industrial estates in Ayutthaya Province are now submerged underwater.

That alone caused at least 90 billion baht in damages to the economy.

The disaster so far has claimed 280 lives.

Foreigners grew less confident about the Thai government's crisis management abilities last week.

The U.S Embassy in Thailand has advised its citizens to evacuate within a 12 kilometer radius around the capital and prepare at least 3 days supply of food and drinking water until the situation improves.

The Taiwanese, Japanese, and Mexican governments also urged their citizens to refrain from traveling to the flood-hit areas.

Japanese investors devastated by the flooding situation are demanding that the government give them more accurate information, perhaps though the Board of Investment or the Industrial Estate Authority.

They have complained that despite the government's pledge to protect the economic zones, many industrial areas are still flooded.

The New York Times has reported that most of the damage has been caused by the government's mismanagement of the crisis, rather that the natural disaster itself as the country faces floods every year and there has been no major storm this year.

-- Tan Network 2011-10-17

[Cayenne]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

[culicine]

As the previous year was quite dry, was water being "saved up" in the dams in case this year was dry as well? It seems to me not enough water was released from the dams over the course of the year; thus a great load has had to be released all at once, causing the current problem.

[Nisa]

The New York Times has reported that most of the damage has been caused by the government's mismanagement of the crisis, rather that the natural disaster itself as the country faces floods every year and there has been no major storm this year.

???? What an idiotic thing to say in terms of major storms. It is not just Thailand that has seen one of the worst monsoon seasons but also places such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Philippines.

I guess if it was just 1 big storm they would say it was only one storm, which Thailand faces often, and not abnormally heavy rain falls for the past months.

Edit: I can't even find the NYTIMES article that states this claim ,,, and many articles carry different claims.

http://www.nytimes.c...human-hand.html

http://www.nytimes.c...-next-week.html

http://www.nytimes.c...sia/22thai.html

http://www.nytimes.c...d-over-200.html

Edited October 17, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

As the previous year was quite dry, was water being "saved up" in the dams in case this year was dry as well? It seems to me not enough water was released from the dams over the course of the year; thus a great load has had to be released all at once, causing the current problem.

Last year there was a big concern about supplies of water. Water levels were at a 50-year low.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Nisa

[animatic]

The New York Times has reported that most of the damage has been caused by the government's mismanagement of the crisis, rather that the natural disaster itself as the country faces floods every year and there has been no major storm this year.

???? What an idiotic thing to say in terms of major storms. It is not just Thailand that has seen one of the worst monsoon seasons but also places such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Philippines.

I guess if it was just 1 big storm they would say it was only one storm, which Thailand faces often, and not abnormally heavy rain falls for the past months.

You should read the whole article.

It essentially says: too little too late,

caused by turf wars, mis-communications and bickering from/within the government slowing response considerably.

Edited October 17, 2011 by animatic

[culicine]

As the previous year was quite dry, was water being "saved up" in the dams in case this year was dry as well? It seems to me not enough water was released from the dams over the course of the year; thus a great load has had to be released all at once, causing the current problem.

Last year there was a big concern about supplies of water. Water levels were at a 50-year low.

Yes and it seems they overcompensated this year, by keeping water levels high.

[Nisa]

The U.S Embassy in Thailand has advised its citizens to evacuate within a 12 kilometer radius around the capital and prepare at least 3 days supply of food and drinking water until the situation improves

Now there is a crisis management plan .... run away, run far away as you can from the city.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

As the previous year was quite dry, was water being "saved up" in the dams in case this year was dry as well? It seems to me not enough water was released from the dams over the course of the year; thus a great load has had to be released all at once, causing the current problem.

Last year there was a big concern about supplies of water. Water levels were at a 50-year low.

Yes and it seems they overcompensated this year, by keeping water levels high.

I am not saying the situation could not have been handled better but if they kept them low and it was a weak monsoon season then there would be drought devastation later this year and everybody would be complaining how they didn't store more water.

Bottom line is it was one of the a very severe monsoon season this year and flooding is going to happen as it has happened in many countries this year.

Edit: lets not forget that this is pure speculation too. I doubt they had the water levels higher than they try to keep them at every year. It is not like people are going to use more this year because they had less last year. Damns and reservoirs are meant to be kept near capacity and they drain them as needed. But I think it impossible to have them near capacity prior to the rainy season. Humans could certainly do a better job of working with mother nature but there was simply too much water coming down from the skies this year.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Nisa

[Bakseedaa]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

[Nisa]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

I am not sure how she could have known about the flooding this year, the movie told her it is going to happen in 2012

[puipuitom]

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a dam_n.......

I do business with Thailand since 1977, and with my own company since 1994. I NEVER found one Thai able to think more ahead as a couple of weeks.

Over a thousand years ago the Dutch started to build dikes along their rivers and the sea. In 1134 ( yes, long before Sukhuthai existed) the ruler of what is now Bremen and Hamburg in Hamburg, brought Dutch dikes builders to his area to make dikes along the rivers Weser and Elbe and along the North sea. These dikes are now at some places 10 mtr high and 18 mtr high along the sea.

Every year there are flooding’s in Thailand, but they never did anything against it. Yes, two days in advance, but that’s it. Also this time I forecast, the present TOY water dykes will be removed and all will go to temple.

As long as the Thais are more interested in their 20-50 THB election money, and never ask themselves: “why this potential .. member of Parliament is willing to PAY for my vote ? Maybe because afterwards he can steel it back more than his /her “investment”, Thailand will be governed by people, who do not give a DAM(n) for their country

[harryn]

Bakseedaa, on 7 minutes ago, said:

Cayenne, on Today, 12:49 , said:

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

Way to go Bakseedaa. In 3 lines you have described the reason for this and the many disasters still to come in the future. We could hope that this changes what has been happening through recent Thai history but keep the boats handy for next year.

[phiphidon]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

I presume that the Japanese investers carefully looked into their chosen firms decision on where to build their manufacturing bases - I think it's called risk management isn't it? Hopefully they didn't use the same judgement as those investing in their home grown nuclear industry.

[siampolee]

One needs to remember that the sites designated for industrial use were owned by some of the most influential politicians families in Thailand . Investors didn't have a choice as the whole scheme was designed to benefit the privileged few.

Cheap ground as it was known as flood plains, however the promises of wonderful mythical drainage systems and flood barriers convinced the investors all was well.

A wonderful scam which in reality is now very likely going to bounce back on the the country and the perpetrators of the said scam, and sad to say "the unfortunate innocent employees of the affected industries."

Edited October 17, 2011 by siampolee

[webfact]

related:

'Obsolete' Weather Radar Blamed As Full Dams Worsen Thai Floods

Follow this link:

[houseinbkk]

Im in foreign press land, and i can confirm none of the mass media i read or listen to has criticised the Thai govt. over the floods. Almost all foreigners couldnt care less what happens in Thailand.

[Foggy Bottom]

Im in foreign press land, and i can confirm none of the mass media i read or listen to has criticised the Thai govt. over the floods. Almost all foreigners couldnt care less what happens in Thailand.

Agreed - I'm in the UK right now and BBC has only just started mentioning the Thai floods for the first time, due no doubt to the tabloid headline opportunity of "evacuation orders" involving Bangkok.

It's a shame one of their junket-loving SE Asia correspondents didn't start covering the story from when Chiang Mai got drowned ... after all, CM only has 26,000 westerners living and working in the province - almost a third of them are Brits, which should have concerned the BRITISH Broadcasting Corp's "news hounds".

[avalonmick]

Let's all face it - the city is in the wrong place: average 2m above sea level near the mouth of the delta. It's always going to flood - unless you have a government that thinks and plans 50-500 years ahead and builds bloody big dykes, a proper dam and canal system to replace the ad hoc stuff that is there now.

Someone thought and did something about once by starting to build a system of roads that acted as dykes and aerial evacuation routes - but I guess the plan got lost.

A decent tsunami in the gulf will, of course, make all planning and building a complete waste of time.

[drdoom6996]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

I totally agree with both of these statements. Priorities have been misplaced. Everybody knew it was coming to Bangkok since Chang Mai flooded. The Thai people voted and...........................................................

[OzMick]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

I presume that the Japanese investers carefully looked into their chosen firms decision on where to build their manufacturing bases - I think it's called risk management isn't it? Hopefully they didn't use the same judgement as those investing in their home grown nuclear industry.

Do you really think drawing a comparison between Thai flooding, which recurs like a metronome, and an 8.9 earthquake and subsequent tsunami, is reasonable, or adds to the discussion?

[tlansford]

The New York Times has reported that most of the damage has been caused by the government's mismanagement of the crisis, rather that the natural disaster itself as the country faces floods every year and there has been no major storm this year.

???? What an idiotic thing to say in terms of major storms. It is not just Thailand that has seen one of the worst monsoon seasons but also places such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Philippines.

I guess if it was just 1 big storm they would say it was only one storm, which Thailand faces often, and not abnormally heavy rain falls for the past months.

Edit: I can't even find the NYTIMES article that states this claim ,,, and many articles carry different claims.

http://www.nytimes.c...human-hand.html

http://www.nytimes.c...-next-week.html

http://www.nytimes.c...sia/22thai.html

http://www.nytimes.c...d-over-200.html

Please consider the source (TAN). Its a news source with an agenda.

Like you, I found no such reference either, I suspect they are referring to the first article you linked to. The title and the first 2 paragraphs are contradictory, however, ...

As Thailand Floods Spread, Experts Blame Officials, Not Rains

By SETH MYDANS

Published: October 13, 2011

BANGKOK — As some of Thailand’s worst flooding in half a century bears down on Bangkok — submerging cities, industrial parks and ancient temples as it comes — experts in water management are blaming human activity for turning an unusually heavy monsoon season into a disaster.

The main factors, they say, are deforestation, overbuilding in catchment areas, the damming and diversion of natural waterways, urban sprawl, and the filling-in of canals, combined with bad planning. Warnings to the authorities, they say, have been in vain.

So whereas TAN clearly states that the NYTimes is criticizing this govt, the experts in this NYTimes article are criticizing years of Thai land/water management practices.

Like you, I don't find any substance behind TANs claim here.

However, the NYT article's brief critique of Thailand's land/water management issues rings true. BTW, this part of the NYT article is also a self-critique as they quoted Thai officials, among other experts.

Agree with you - looks like this TAN article is - to put it nicely - inaccurate.

[DGS1244]

I agree with "drdoom6996" back in August when we were flooded in Chiang Mai they said that there was so much water Bangkok will flood in a month or so, did anyone listen?. Of course not that would have required someone to do some PLANNING and we all know that word does not exist in Thailand.

[houseinbkk]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

I totally agree with both of these statements. Priorities have been misplaced. Everybody knew it was coming to Bangkok since Chang Mai flooded. The Thai people voted and...........................................................

Personally i cant understand why foreigners prefer one lying thieving murdering political party in Thailand over the other, but to somehow insinuate this flooding is the fault of the current govt is taking the biscuit.

Surely its the fault of all parties over the last 50 years, an epidemic of corruption and the fact those in charge arent very bright no matter what school they went to that there isnt infrastructure in place for inevitable events.

[houseinbkk]

I agree with "drdoom6996" back in August when we were flooded in Chiang Mai they said that there was so much water Bangkok will flood in a month or so, did anyone listen?. Of course not that would have required someone to do some PLANNING and we all know that word does not exist in Thailand.

What planning other then placing sandbags can be done in 3 weeks to prevent flooding?

[Bkkorupcountry]

What business is it of the foreign press to criticize? Isn't this just typical of interference, something that their governments like to do? They should just learn to mind their own business.

Bakseedaa, on 7 minutes ago, said:

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

There we go again. Nothing to contribute other than to just criticize the government endlessly, like a broken record. Have you no other thoughts in that head of yours other than to post one criticism after another? It's one thing to state your opinion, as you probably live here (though that opinion is worth less than zero) but quite another to just post one poisonous post after another.

[inquisitive]

The U.S Embassy in Thailand has advised its citizens to evacuate within a 12 kilometer radius around the capital and prepare at least 3 days supply of food and drinking water until the situation improves

Now there is a crisis management plan .... run away, run far away as you can from the city.

I believe that is a crisis avoidance plan rather than a crisis management plan. The US Embassy is not empowered to manage this crisis.

[tlansford]

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

I presume that the Japanese investers carefully looked into their chosen firms decision on where to build their manufacturing bases - I think it's called risk management isn't it? Hopefully they didn't use the same judgement as those investing in their home grown nuclear industry.

Do you really think drawing a comparison between Thai flooding, which recurs like a metronome, and an 8.9 earthquake and subsequent tsunami, is reasonable, or adds to the discussion?

Well, it might be a distraction to the discussion, but, in this case, it is a reasonable comparison.

In the last 500 years, Japan has had 16 (now 17) tsunami's greater than 10 meters in height. That's an average of every 30 years. The disaster in the nuclear plant was almost guaranteed to take place as they had a 5m protection wall and all of the back-up / redundant power generators were underground and were, of course, flooded and non-operational when the mainline power went out. No power, no cooling, melt-down.

Japan was a terrible disaster that was completely avoidable if there had been the proper planning for the site.

Edited to add, the comparison to Thailand is pretty clear - years of poor land/water management are going to have consequences, too.

Edited October 17, 2011 by tlansford

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The New York Times has reported that most of the damage has been caused by the government's mismanagement of the crisis, rather that the natural disaster itself as the country faces floods every year and there has been no major storm this year.

???? What an idiotic thing to say in terms of major storms. It is not just Thailand that has seen one of the worst monsoon seasons but also places such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Philippines.

I guess if it was just 1 big storm they would say it was only one storm, which Thailand faces often, and not abnormally heavy rain falls for the past months.

Edit: I can't even find the NYTIMES article that states this claim ,,, and many articles carry different claims.

The NYT article that I recall reading quoted various authorities as saying a lot of Thailand's problems with flooding have been man made...and went on accurately to talk about issues such as lack of urban planning, the sacrificing of forests and other landscaped areas to development, developments built in locations that interfere with natural drainage routes, etc etc...

The storms are going to be the storms, better or worse in any given year. But how the country prepares for them, and how it manages its water resource and flood control issues, are entirely under its own control.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The U.S Embassy in Thailand has advised its citizens to evacuate within a 12 kilometer radius around the capital and prepare at least 3 days supply of food and drinking water until the situation improves

Now there is a crisis management plan .... run away, run far away as you can from the city.

If a city or area is facing a potential flooding threat, it doesn't make things any easier on anyone to have a lot of foreign tourists stuck in the middle of things. The fewer the potential victims, the fewer people the government authorities, rescue workers, etc. have to be concerned about. And based on their performance so far, they really don't need any more of a burden than they're already facing.