Kowtow

[NanLaew]

I reckon you don't mean LITERAL kowtowing but about the arse licking if needed to get out of there with new stamps, how deep and how hard?

More seriously, all I do is dress half decently, show up clean, speak in monotone soft tone of voice, and perhaps give a minor head nod of respect when approaching the man with the power.

Yes:

good clothes, not short trouser and Che Guevara Tshirt.

friendly and listening what they tell.

Why would anyone bother to dress up for Immigration?

It's not as if they will refuse to accept your 90 day report, if you look a bit scruffy.

And when going for my Visa extension, they can see from my bank account that I could buy and sell them several times, that is the greatest form of respect you can get from a Thai.

I would never wai a Thai first, as they are clearly of a lower status than me.

They might get a wave back, if I were in a good mood.

And what about white guys wearing baggy Thai trousers, what dicks they look!

What's wrong with Che T-shirts?

All the Thais have them, along with Che mud flaps, bumper stickers, Che sun blinds, etc.

He's the male version of 'Hello Kitty' in Thai fashion, totally cool here.

Must say that you sound the dick.

Sorry, just my perception of a guy with loads of cash that ''thinks'' he's better than the natives.

I am with the luddite on this.

He turns up at immigration with his rental wife of the week, grubby and unkempt but comfortable in his place in the grand scheme of things here, provides the needful, no wais, no deference to perceived authority (government desk jockey just does his job like he's paid to do regardless of how much spaghetti is on the cap) and gets his extension.

You turn up in your Sunday best, on your tod, try to talk in Thai, wai, simper and grovel like a wally while hoping nobody notices that you are sweating like a rapist and get your extension.

Each to his own.

[transam]

Sorry, just my perception of a guy with loads of cash that ''thinks'' he's better than the natives.

You have poor reading comprehension skills, it's what they think is important that matters to them, MONEY.

NOT to someone who will NEVER get their hands on it, in fact the opposite '' could '' happen, envy '' could '' come into play .

[taninthai]

I was getting my first marriage extension 2 months ago so made alittle effort with jeans and a polo shirt , an old faring couple followed me in and I did have alittle laugh at the fact that they took their shoes off and left them outside, then while I was sitting at desk a younger group came in shirtless the immigration officer turned and said to them I can't deal with you if your not dressed properly, then when I left I noticed all the other faring had seen the old couples shoes outside and copied them taking there shoes of too.

I think you have to make alittle effort the young guys coming in topless did look really bad the old couple if they want to leave their shoes at the door that's up to them.

[transam]

I was getting my first marriage extension 2 months ago so made alittle effort with jeans and a polo shirt , an old faring couple followed me in and I did have alittle laugh at the fact that they took their shoes off and left them outside, then while I was sitting at desk a younger group came in shirtless the immigration officer turned and said to them I can't deal with you if your not dressed properly, then when I left I noticed all the other faring had seen the old couples shoes outside and copied them taking there shoes of too.

I think you have to make alittle effort the young guys coming in topless did look really bad the old couple if they want to leave their shoes at the door that's up to them.

They were using their loaf AND the staff would have noticed. Good for them.

[Ulysses G.]

No need really to dress for 90 day reports, at least in Pattaya. Shorts, t-shirt, and sandals would be fine. But I wouldn't dress shockingly bad either. However, if there was something dodgy about your report, back to the kowtow mode.

I wear long trousers once a year to apply for an extension on the visa - never for the 90 day reports. I bring my accountant and say absolutely nothing unless asked and try to look as happy to be there as I can manage. It has worked so far.

[kerryk]

I reckon you don't mean LITERAL kowtowing but about the arse licking if needed to get out of there with new stamps, how deep and how hard?

More seriously, all I do is dress half decently, show up clean, speak in monotone soft tone of voice, and perhaps give a minor head nod of respect when approaching the man with the power.

I agree with Jingthing as usual, a little minor head should do the trick.

[philw]

I want something from them very valuable to me. They have the power to say yes or no. Of course, I SHOW (fake) respect to them.

I would think most people and officialdom can see through fake respect and judge accordingly.

[transam]

Are there farang tramps (hobo's) in LOS ? YES.

Would they change their dress habits for immigration, even with big bucks in the bank ?. NO

A tramp is a tramp. End of.

[richard_smith237]

A thank you is all the woman at the Burger King counter gets from me.

The immigration officer gets exactly the same.

There is no reason to me more or less respectful than with anyone else in everyday life unless you are the sort of person who gets into the position of 'needing' a little flexibility from the staff at immigration.

They see 100's of people coming through the lines as do people in retail and many other businesses, I'm sure they couldn't care less and don't give it a second thought if we are over polite or say nothing... Sometimes, as westerners we really do over analyse things.

With regards to dress: Everywhere you go you are likely to be treated according to how appropriately you present yourself. I sometimes see westerners at immigration really overdressed in dodgy suits, I do wonder which boat they missed...

Those with their shirts off at an immigration office, or any other office for that matter are simply ignorant idiots.

[Heng]

The cops at immigration (the ones you'll talk to anyway) are at roughly the same social level as your typical bank teller. They are the peons of the system (of which there are endless peons). They do abuse their limited power at times and it's pretty obvious that they 'fast track' some folks over others. I see it happen at banks and at the land dept. all the time. Some 'bigger than me' fellow gets to cut in line to get his chanotes processed or get his deposits made because that's just the way things are. What are you going to do?

[StreetCowboy]

Just what does the OP define as kowtowing.

I've been to immigration numerous times and never noticed such a thing.

One kneels some distance from the Emperor, bow and tap your head on the ground three times. Move closer, do the same. Move close enough to present your case, tap your head three times, and then address the Emperor with one's face to the ground.

Usually, its meant figuratively, though.

SC

[Jingthing]

I want something from them very valuable to me. They have the power to say yes or no. Of course, I SHOW (fake) respect to them.

I would think most people and officialdom can see through fake respect and judge accordingly.

You're joking, right? Being deferential is being deferential. It's all surface role playing. Makes no difference at all what you are THINKING inside, as if they really care!

[nontabury]

Just what does the OP define as kowtowing.

I've been to immigration numerous times and never noticed such a thing.

It can be from what I saw this week,when one person with hisThai wife presented to the imm official a cake which his wife had baked, and this to an officer he'd never seen before,

to instances were I've seen farangs with a obvious grovelling attitude. I can understand when people make an effort with their appearance and try to be extra polite to the officer, but

to go over the top, I think is nauseating. If you have never seen it in immigration, you have been either very fortunate or you did know you where doing it when you did.

[transam]

Just what does the OP define as kowtowing.

I've been to immigration numerous times and never noticed such a thing.

It can be from what I saw this week,when one person with hisThai wife presented to the imm official a cake which his wife had baked, and this to an officer he'd never seen before,

to instances were I've seen farangs with a obvious grovelling attitude. I can understand when people make an effort with their appearance and try to be extra polite to the officer, but

to go over the top, I think is nauseating. If you have never seen it in immigration, you have been either very fortunate or you did know you where doing it when you did.

Your instance is OTT, apple for the teacher stuff.

[nontabury]

Just what does the OP define as kowtowing.

I've been to immigration numerous times and never noticed such a thing.

It can be from what I saw this week,when one person with his Thai wife presented to the imm official a cake which his wife had baked, and this to an officer he'd never seen before,

to instances were I've seen farangs with a obvious grovelling attitude. I can understand when people make an effort with their appearance and try to be extra polite to the officer, but

to go over the top, I think is nauseating. If you have never seen it in immigration, you have been either very fortunate or you did know you where doing it when you did.

Your instance is OTT, apple for the teacher stuff.

Do you give presents to imm officials, and if so do you also give presents to shop staff ?

Like I say some people do not know when their grovelling,perhaps it just comes natural to them.

[philw]

I want something from them very valuable to me. They have the power to say yes or no. Of course, I SHOW (fake) respect to them.

I would think most people and officialdom can see through fake respect and judge accordingly.

You're joking, right? Being deferential is being deferential. It's all surface role playing. Makes no difference at all what you are THINKING inside, as if they really care!

Nah, not joking, just commenting on your concept of "fake" respect.

[StreetCowboy]

Just what does the OP define as kowtowing.

I've been to immigration numerous times and never noticed such a thing.

It can be from what I saw this week,when one person with his Thai wife presented to the imm official a cake which his wife had baked, and this to an officer he'd never seen before,

to instances were I've seen farangs with a obvious grovelling attitude. I can understand when people make an effort with their appearance and try to be extra polite to the officer, but

to go over the top, I think is nauseating. If you have never seen it in immigration, you have been either very fortunate or you did know you where doing it when you did.

Your instance is OTT, apple for the teacher stuff.

Do you give presents to imm officials, and if so do you also give presents to shop staff ?

Like I say some people do not know when their grovelling,perhaps it just comes natural to them.

I've never tried giving a cake to a member of shop staff, but if I did, I would imagine that it would get me excellent service within the limits of their employment obligations. I can imagine that their recommendations might save me a great deal of money in the long run - advice on what products get returned most often, what products might become obsolete...

That's not the way I do business, but to some extent I can afford to ignore other peoples' cultures and live well within my means.

I accept that Japanese visitors offer little gifts to everyone with whom they interact, though I find it difficult to reciprocate in appropriate measure.

I suppose I am lucky that I am not easily nauseated, as well. Where I grew up, we were expected to have a strong stomach, and stand stoic in the face of fawning and obsequiecy.

SC

[Jingthing]

Nah, not joking, just commenting on your concept of "fake" respect.

I don't get you at all. Do you think people deserve "real" respect just because they are government officials? Fake has always served me well. If I had developed a legitimate personal reason to feel "real" respect for a specific person, well that's different. Unlikely though except at small offices. My goal is get in and out with the least time and fuss. I'm not there to meet policemen to invite to cocktail parties.

[StreetCowboy]

Nah, not joking, just commenting on your concept of "fake" respect.

I don't get you at all. Do you think people deserve "real" respect just because they are government officials? Fake has always served me well. If I had developed a legitimate personal reason to feel "real" respect for a specific person, well that's different. Unlikely though except at small offices. My goal is get in and out with the least time and fuss. I'm not there to meet policemen to invite to cocktail parties.

I really do respect people in authority. Its a bit like wild horses. If you don't respect them, you might end up with a hoof in your mouth and a big dental bill. You might like or dislike them, think they are stupid, irrational, ignorant or badly groomed. But if a bit of respect avoids a big dental bill, then whose pride is that important?

Respect is about treating people well, regardless of your opinion regarding their merits. Its about doing your best, whatever the opposition.

SC

[Jingthing]

I show respect to people in uniforms for my own selfish reasons. I don't feel the respect. I don't see them as friends. There's no difference in my view. It's just a game. We're all different. Maybe some of you are incapable of playing a role. Maybe some of you are ex-military and have this deference to authority hard wired in you. Be my guest. I'll continue to fake it, thank you very much!

[nontabury]

Nah, not joking, just commenting on your concept of "fake" respect.

I don't get you at all. Do you think people deserve "real" respect just because they are government officials? Fake has always served me well. If I had developed a legitimate personal reason to feel "real" respect for a specific person, well that's different. Unlikely though except at small offices. My goal is get in and out with the least time and fuss. I'm not there to meet policemen to invite to cocktail parties.

I really do respect people in authority. Its a bit like wild horses. If you don't respect them, you might end up with a hoof in your mouth and a big dental bill. You might like or dislike them, think they are stupid, irrational, ignorant or badly groomed. But if a bit of respect avoids a big dental bill, then whose pride is that important?

Respect is about treating people well, regardless of your opinion regarding their merits. Its about doing your best, whatever the opposition.

SC

Would that also apply to interaction with an English person, or would the chip on your shoulder take priority.

[ludditeman]

Groveling to Johnny foreigner is just not done old boy!

[Heng]

It's all a simple (and common) discrepancy between how one visualizes oneself and how one actually is. Like thinking you're the best at whatever subject... until the test scores come out. In this case thinking that you are at an nth level in whatever hierarchy (and that you shouldn't need to jump through these type of hoops) only to find that some desk clerk controls your destiny.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, these often low intelligence, sometimes bullying officers do indeed have massive power over many applicants who actually do DESERVE to be respected but shouldn't expect it ...

[StreetCowboy]

Nah, not joking, just commenting on your concept of "fake" respect.

I don't get you at all. Do you think people deserve "real" respect just because they are government officials? Fake has always served me well. If I had developed a legitimate personal reason to feel "real" respect for a specific person, well that's different. Unlikely though except at small offices. My goal is get in and out with the least time and fuss. I'm not there to meet policemen to invite to cocktail parties.

I really do respect people in authority. Its a bit like wild horses. If you don't respect them, you might end up with a hoof in your mouth and a big dental bill. You might like or dislike them, think they are stupid, irrational, ignorant or badly groomed. But if a bit of respect avoids a big dental bill, then whose pride is that important?

Respect is about treating people well, regardless of your opinion regarding their merits. Its about doing your best, whatever the opposition.

SC

Would that also apply to interaction with an English person, or would the chip on your shoulder take priority.

God forbid that one had to stoop to interacting with English persons

[h90]

No need really to dress for 90 day reports, at least in Pattaya. Shorts, t-shirt, and sandals would be fine. But I wouldn't dress shockingly bad either. However, if there was something dodgy about your report, back to the kowtow mode.

I wear long trousers once a year to apply for an extension on the visa - never for the 90 day reports. I bring my accountant and say absolutely nothing unless asked and try to look as happy to be there as I can manage. It has worked so far.

and what do you wear when you work, when you go in the supermarket?

[ludditeman]

It's all a simple (and common) discrepancy between how one visualizes oneself and how one actually is. Like thinking you're the best at whatever subject... until the test scores come out. In this case thinking that you are at an nth level in whatever hierarchy (and that you shouldn't need to jump through these type of hoops) only to find that some desk clerk controls your destiny.

Cowards die many times before their deaths.

[Fookhaht]

I am DEFINITELY more deferential to power in Thailand than in the US. In the US, you have redress if they unjustly screw you. Here, no. Why take chances?

Also, of course, we are foreigners, as far as immigration is concerned we're all on thin ice here.

[StreetCowboy]

Groveling to Johnny foreigner is just not done old boy!

One can show another respect without grovelling. One should show respect to others, even if they lack the 'l's and commas to express their own opinions properly.

SC

[kerryk]

No need really to dress for 90 day reports, at least in Pattaya. Shorts, t-shirt, and sandals would be fine. But I wouldn't dress shockingly bad either. However, if there was something dodgy about your report, back to the kowtow mode.

I wear long trousers once a year to apply for an extension on the visa - never for the 90 day reports. I bring my accountant and say absolutely nothing unless asked and try to look as happy to be there as I can manage. It has worked so far.

and what do you wear when you work, when you go in the supermarket?

Maybe a uniform. A lot of guys in Thailand like uniforms. I wear one every chance I get.