Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[c64]

Before I do the same thing with bashing thais and their government for their stupidity declining aid offered them from the us army. It's not all contries that will accept help from another country's armed forces. If the agency that offers aid had been civil, it's a lot easier to accept the aid.

In norway and Sweden the resque squads are civil and not part of the army (although the maintenance on helicopters are done by army personell) just to avoid the abovementioned frictions.

On the other hand, looking back on the tsunami catastrophy hitting Phuket, I don't know if it's so very wise to offer any help. Has been some strong accusations that most of the relief aid went to the bigshots and mafia in Phuket to rebuild their properties and business instead of rebuilding the homes of the people in distress.

Ahh well, It wouldn't hurt the thai people at all to learn a lesson of humility ;-)

[angeledge]

This situation reminds me of an emergency call i had. We went for a small house fire. When we arrived, the old man came out and said dont come here, i handle the situation. If you come closer, i shot you. We make him sign the paper and left. 1 hour later, we went back to his place when the house was on the ground. Similar huh!

[serenitynow]

we call it stupidity - the Thais call it THAINESS

Loss of face is so much more valuable to them than loss of life

And it truly shows how much they really think of foreigners - they dont want us to help them because they are superior in all ways, why else would they all want to live here in our beautiful land and chase our beautiful women.

I don't buy the "loss of face" argument. Surely, the utter stupidity, callousness and incompetence on display by this administration is already a huge "loss of face". It's something else, and if I were to guess it is that ministers are more focused on how they can "earn" off this crisis, rather than how to bring it to a conclusion.

[ElVez]

Also, those who say that US always want something in return, i remember last year, in Sarnia,Ontario, Canada. There had a massive snowstorm and many people were stuck in their car on the highway. You know what, Canadian and American army were there to help, without asking for anything in exchange. This is not about loosing the face, this is about friendship and we, Canada, do the same when something happen in the US.

It is clear that this government can not handle the situation. Also not good for relations between those 2 countries.

Imagine if the Canadian military had dared to say "thank you for the offer, but we can handle the situation alone." that they have enough manpower and their helicopters are in the air all day on rescue missions. having a foreign speaking pilots in another fleet of helicopters around and providing the logistics for them could make things actually more complicated.

Why is that no good for the relations between those two countries. The Thai army has no issues with the US.

Why the ex navy seals of this forum are a) offended when the Thais decline the offer for help and thinks it's US bashing? and why turning to the worst insults just because someone said they don't need your help and can do it alone?

That are definitely not signs of great friendship.

The reactions the us navy have on this forum is exactly why the relation is going to be affected between those 2 countries. The militaries on the ship must be laughing like hell of the situation and Obama shall be doing the same. Thailand is already beeing bashed all around the world because of the way they handle the situation and it is going to be another argument to bash the new PM.

I am from the french province of Quebec and we can easily deal with american army. Thai army is regulary training with US army so your point in having problems is not good. Thai would have benefit of this aid but seems like the PM prefere seeing people die instead of working for them.

Well, don't claim to be a friend when you have nothing better to do to make jokes about Thailand, insult them and laugh about them just because they are so "stupid" and "backward" not to take the help of the superiority powers.

People like that nobody needs

[serenitynow]

Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Nah, they are on top of things.

I believe that they are on top of things and can do just fine without the help of the West. The last thing Thailand needs is to be indebted to the military industrialist complex that IS America. Besides, do you really want to be overwhelmed with US Navy Sailors this High Season? HELL NO!

Oh yeah... I'll tell you what the last thing the US Navy is, humanitarian; and I know "Anchors Away" and have passed under that tunnel in Great Lakes so don't talk trash to me about the US Military. They are tyrants and selfserving monkies pure and simple. Good, leave; ...good riddance!!!

I know your post was merely to add some humor to this otherwise tragic topic, but even in a spoof post you want to get some things right. The correct term is "Anchors Aweigh".

[Ijustwannateach]

I guess I'll join in here and help delete the off-topic material, but I guess I should let you guys know that I issue warnings when I do that because I don't like to waste my time.

[Beetlejuice]

Two ways of looking at this.

First, the arrogance displayed by the Thai Government that do not wish the world to see they have a uncontrollable situation which they cant handle, next, it does take away the opportunity for the United States to boast how the Americans saved Thailand from imminent destruction and how the Thais will be eternally obliged to them in the future.

[harrry]

In this case there will be bodies if they do not come. I am the last to support the US military but in this case as in much of their humanitarian aid it is well thought out and well delivered. Sad to see that the aid was refused.

[transam]

Two ways of looking at this.

First, the arrogance displayed by the Thai Government that do not wish the world to see they have a uncontrollable situation which they cant handle, next, it does take away the opportunity for the United States to boast how the Americans saved Thailand from imminent destruction and how the Thais will be eternally obliged to them in the future.

Your second point is hogwash. Perhaps you can provide evidence that the USA has spouted off what you are claiming on any issue they have been involved in.

BUT, who cares, if USA folk do what is needed to help, instead of most doing nothing to save lives.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think that the ongoing assistance which the US and Thailand have provided to each other historically is more than enough reason for the US to want to show willingness to help. Again, historically, Thailand and the US are already quite entangled and there is no need for the US to have more 'excuse' to claim that Thailand owes them, and it would be historically odd for Thailand to pretend that they wish to be more distant from ties to the US. I think it's clear- from the Thai government's behaviour regarding the flood and associated problems over the last few weeks- that 'mixed messages' are par for the course here, and there may be no more significance to this one part of the whole great big screw up than its consistency.

[xthAi76s]

Stupid is: believing a military ship is going to solve Thailand's present problems.

Stupid is: believing a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier task force is unable to provide substantial resources in a multitude of ways to lessen the suffering during Thailand's present problems.

.

+1

[rogerdee123]

Watch it guys & gals .... we can't let the trolls hi-jack the threads.

Remember the devilish Robert Amsterdam is probably busy as a bee.

[KOZMO]

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP. "One was saying 'Yes' and one was saying 'No.'"

I wonder which channel of the Thai government said no? I sure hope this fact is revealed.

Has to be Yingluck cause brother Thaksin is coming here in december, that is if she is still PM

[chiangmaicharlies]

According to wiki,

"A typical aircraft carrier in the U.S. military uses nuclear power to desalinate 400,000 US gallons (1,500,000 lt; 330,000 imp gal) of water per day"

I didn't know that - but if true, that would be a lot of help. Maybe authorities will come to their senses later

[NanLaew]

You think maybe the Thai government was a little upset that "A fourth ship, the USS Kidd, which was carrying out an exercise with Cambodian forces, also was ordered to join the carrier group near Thailand" ? Aren't Thailand and Cambodia at odds with each other??

Grasp at a different straw

But sums up the never ending quest to lay all blame at the present governments door. Grasping at straws. LOL.

[Just1Voice]

There were news stories last week, and I will have to summarize from memory, that said the U.S. had about 20 helicopters available at Don Muang. The PM stated they would fall under the supervision of the Thai Air Force Commander.

The U.S. said they would provide up to 85 more if needed and requested in the coming weeks. Not only could they be used for rescue and supply drops, but for heavy lifting to place flood barriers, sand bags, etc.

The Air Force Commander stated that everyone that need rescue or evacuation had already been taken care of. He stated many people were staying in place, and that they could be supplied with trucks and boats, helicopters are not necessary. He also stated that it was too dangerous to fly so many helicopters at the same time. Unbelievable!

I was surprised there was not much reaction to this on T.V. at the time. Now it is a major topic. Soon after there were stories of not enough boats with motors to reach the stranded population.

Now we know who said NO.

Clueless Yingluck thought some helicopters might be a nice helping hand, but of course some military dude knew it better. Some people have to adjust their rants now.

Well, let's see. Just FIVE working coppers in the air at the same time would be dangerous if they were Thai. Whereas the American military, with computerized coordination and competent officers (something else the Thai are seriously lacking in), could easily deploy them with no problem. But for the record, the original story stated the U.S. would send SIX (6) U.S. Marine Blackhawks, with TWENTY (20) more on standby if needed. 26 Blackhawks, under U.S. control, would be able to deliver 100 times more aid to needy victims than what Thailand has the capabilities of doing, as well as being able to rescue and bring to safety a few thousand people that Thailand can't even get to because they don't have the resources, i.e. helicopters, motorized boats, etc.

Yeah, real smart move telling the US they don't need their help.

[rogerdee123]

I believe that it's not only aid from the US Navy that is being declined.

[rogerdee123]

There were news stories last week, and I will have to summarize from memory, that said the U.S. had about 20 helicopters available at Don Muang. The PM stated they would fall under the supervision of the Thai Air Force Commander.

The U.S. said they would provide up to 85 more if needed and requested in the coming weeks. Not only could they be used for rescue and supply drops, but for heavy lifting to place flood barriers, sand bags, etc.

The Air Force Commander stated that everyone that need rescue or evacuation had already been taken care of. He stated many people were staying in place, and that they could be supplied with trucks and boats, helicopters are not necessary. He also stated that it was too dangerous to fly so many helicopters at the same time. Unbelievable!

I was surprised there was not much reaction to this on T.V. at the time. Now it is a major topic. Soon after there were stories of not enough boats with motors to reach the stranded population.

Now we know who said NO.

Clueless Yingluck thought some helicopters might be a nice helping hand, but of course some military dude knew it better. Some people have to adjust their rants now.

Well, let's see. Just FIVE working coppers in the air at the same time would be dangerous if they were Thai. Whereas the American military, with computerized coordination and competent officers (something else the Thai are seriously lacking in), could easily deploy them with no problem. But for the record, the original story stated the U.S. would send SIX (6) U.S. Marine Blackhawks, with TWENTY (20) more on standby if needed. 26 Blackhawks, under U.S. control, would be able to deliver 100 times more aid to needy victims than what Thailand has the capabilities of doing, as well as being able to rescue and bring to safety a few thousand people that Thailand can't even get to because they don't have the resources, i.e. helicopters, motorized boats, etc.

Yeah, real smart move telling the US they don't need their help.

And don't forget about the Thai choppers that are needed to provide transport to and fro for the FROC guys at Don Muang, their expertly located command center.

[Ijustwannateach]

My post-deleting fingers and warning-issuing fingers aren't tired. Stay off the off-topic pro-/anti- US argument formerly dominating the thread, or lose your posting rights.

[NanLaew]

It would seem the USS Mustin and it's crew of 380 is in Thailand providing assistance, while the USS George Washington Carrier Task Force 70 with it's 7,500 personnel, million liter a day drinking water capability, multiple dozens of aircraft, and nuclear-power capability of electricity generation, have left.

Darn! All we needed to do was pop down to HomePro, get some pvc piping and some plugs and sockets and hook the boat up in.... Klong Toey?

But the moment was lost.

Ummm.... what could we use the planes for?

[Phuket Stan]

Memories are such funny things at times...now how many Thai Air Force helicopters crashed on the border with Myanmer a few months ago...was it 2 or 3

The refusal of the US aid has the similar hall marks of the Tsunami..."We dont need your help...take it to where its needed" cry from our then current leader....it also took that leader 2 days to release the army into action after the tsunami hit....the poor people on the ground who were homeless and starving certainly needed all the help they could get...some have never completely recovered...how do I know....I was right amongst it unlike some illogical posters here

Some people in Dubai do have really long fingers...or is he at the border mounting his white steed for the triumphant ride to the rescue

Edited October 25, 2011 by Phuket Stan

[Emptyset]

It's a bit strange because reading US ambassador Kristie Kenney's twitter, it's clear that the US military is already helping out: http://twitter.com/#!/KristieKenney

'Proud of US sailors fm USS Mustain (GW carrier group). Donations, working w kids, flying helo missions over Thai flood areas.'

'For those asking, US Marine humanitarian team working on Thai flood relief. USS Mustain (GW carrier group) in port.'

So the govt obviously hasn't point blank refused US help.

[Just1Voice]

And this is what the poor people get for voting in these Red Shirt scumbags. Disgusting.

WRONG! This is what Thailand gets for YEARS of ignoring a problem that was staring them in the face. For YEARS of allowing the rich and powerful to destroy natural forest preserves so they could build their mansions and resorts. For YEARS of building factories, houses and condos in areas that were formerly flood runoff areas. For YEARS of asking experts from other countries, Holland for example, to come in do studies and tell them what is needed, and then totally ignoring those studies and reports because "Thai know better than farang". It doesn't matter one dam_n bit WHICH government was in place, this STILL would have happened, and there just not a hell of a lot that anyone can do about it now. Yes, Yingluck and Company can be, and should be, accused of mismanagement, but can you, or anyone, give me any guarantees that Abhisit & Company would have done any better?

Edited October 25, 2011 by metisdead
Corrected misspelling of former PM's name.

[wallswod]

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP. "One was saying 'Yes' and one was saying 'No.'"

I wonder which channel of the Thai government said no? I sure hope this fact is revealed.

Because they will have blood on their hands once the outbreaks start.

[rogerdee123]

What are the chances the yellow shirts are using the floods for political gains?

Did PAD not ask for the assistance of the USS George Washington? Is that why they left?

They probably went to lend a hand in Turkey or maybe Cambodia.

[rogerdee123]

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP. "One was saying 'Yes' and one was saying 'No.'"

I wonder which channel of the Thai government said no? I sure hope this fact is revealed.

Because they will have blood on their hands once the outbreaks start.

Would you mind explaining ?

[JollyRoger]

According to my Thai wife, who is an expert on such things, this is rubbish and Thailand would never refuse help of this type, so I guess this post is not correct.

[Fookhaht]

And this is what the poor people get for voting in these Red Shirt scumbags. Disgusting.

WRONG! This is what Thailand gets for YEARS of ignoring a problem that was staring them in the face. For YEARS of allowing the rich and powerful to destroy natural forest preserves so they could build their mansions and resorts. For YEARS of building factories, houses and condos in areas that were formerly flood runoff areas. For YEARS of asking experts from other countries, Holland for example, to come in do studies and tell them what is needed, and then totally ignoring those studies and reports because "Thai know better than farang". It doesn't matter one dam_n bit WHICH government was in place, this STILL would have happened, and there just not a hell of a lot that anyone can do about it now. Yes, Yingluck and Company can be, and should be, accused of mismanagement, but can you, or anyone, give me any guarantees that Abhisit & Company would have done any better?

[hardy1943]

"On October 15, a small ten-man team of US Marines traveled to Thailand to deliver thousands of sandbags and to assess how the American military could help with relief efforts"

sending sandbags is the least, what US government should be doing, in such situation. Much more important are basic medical supplies, medicines and equipment.

but, of course, it's a very strange position, not to accept an offer of help. Those marines could be used in rescue work, which is so much needed.

looks, life thai foreign ministry made a big mistake, because there weren't any diplomatic favours in exchange for help.

There is a simple reason for that! From then on the Thai military would be asked to perform the same task! They do not even have a clue to act like a military #1 and #2 they have more chiefs then Indians.

[animatic]

And this is what the poor people get for voting in these Red Shirt scumbags. Disgusting.

WRONG! This is what Thailand gets for YEARS of ignoring a problem that was staring them in the face. For YEARS of allowing the rich and powerful to destroy natural forest preserves so they could build their mansions and resorts. For YEARS of building factories, houses and condos in areas that were formerly flood runoff areas. For YEARS of asking experts from other countries, Holland for example, to come in do studies and tell them what is needed, and then totally ignoring those studies and reports because "Thai know better than farang". It doesn't matter one dam_n bit WHICH government was in place, this STILL would have happened, and there just not a hell of a lot that anyone can do about it now. Yes, Yingluck and Company can be, and should be, accused of mismanagement, but can you, or anyone, give me any guarantees that Abhisit & Company would have done any better?

Well last year they did.

Things were not good, there were typhoons too,

but nothing close to this scale of disaster in the end.

But if we look at other governments we must look at TRT PPP and PTP having the most time, and TRT having by far the best economic conditions to fix this, ongoing problem ... and guess what. Here we are and look what we got.

I also remember 2005 under TRT and their deliberate inaction caused horrendous problems, until the world press got a hold of the story.

Edited October 25, 2011 by animatic