Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[emilyb]

The US and Thai governments have a very long history of exchanging favors, tilted in the US' direction in some ways and in Thailand's direction in others. Like most countries, they trade favors and grant concessions and so on based on strategic interest. If you've ever flown into a regional airport in Thailand you've flown into something built by the US. These airports were originally USAF bases. I think most people know this. What's my point? The US used Thailand - with Thailand's consent - to run our disastrous war in SE Asia and Thailand used the US to build infrastructure and pry away money from the presence of the US forces. This special relationship extends to business concerns, diplomatic concerns and so on and, as has been noted, Cobra Gold is held here between the US and strategic regional partners. US passports are manufactured here. Heaps of US durable goods are manufactured here. When we launched our misguided occupation in the sandbox, Thailand sent troops and we sent aid and concessions. Similarly, Thailand housed a black prison for our pretty reprehensible extraordinary rendition program. We have a complex relationship with one another wherein each party gets something at one point or another with the US generally being on the asking end more often, but with a relatively warm reception in most cases behind closed doors. This is not a surprise to anyone with a brain.

I say all this to underscore the idiocy of those assuming this single act of sending humanitarian aid is some kind of trump card. It is no doubt a genuine desire to send help to a friendly nation with whom the US has a long relationship. It's unfathomable that it will come with some big asterisk, because that is not how the relationship between the US and Thailand works. It's a relationship built on mutual reacharounds, not on extortion via aid. In other words, both countries are in it for the long con, not the short con, so assuming that this carrier group would be tied to some backscratching deal is moronic.

[wpcoe]

Assuming the PM *was* aware of the US offer of assistance, who on earth would have to power to override any decision from her to deny/accept the offer? Doesn't the recent "state of emergency" (I know that's not the right term, but still having my first cup of coffee and can't recall/find the correct term for the "state" she declared) give her the power to override ANYone (except, I'm sure, HRH the King) to deal with the current calamity?

I actually don't have a hard time believing she might not even be aware the US military has turned away from Thailand. Obviously she doesn't have the luxury of us keyboard warriors to read every ThaiVisa news thread. Sometimes one can be too close to a problem to see all the issues surrounding it. It's not too far fetched that someone either innocently forgot to inform her, or more nefariously, intentionally did not pass that info on to her. In her position in a *normal* situation she opts to rely on the folks around her to get reliable info to her in a timely fashion. In times of a *crisis* she absolutely HAS to rely on them.

[starguard69]

.........and of course the US is SO good at flood control / response?

Better than Thailand.....

[VictorOne]

Before this wreck is done, Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Disease will likely break out due to people being forced into unhealthy living conditions.

I hope I am wrong but I see bad things ahead.

So what's new ? It's TIT after all

[zydeco]

Before this wreck is done, Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Disease will likely break out due to people being forced into unhealthy living conditions.

I hope I am wrong but I see bad things ahead.

. . . I hope that I am wrong about this major disease thing, butwhen I see the Thai government refusing the aid of three or four US Navy shipsand personnel for two weeks, I have to resist the temptationr to do anything on their own and are stuck depending on a failed stateto help and communicate solutions.

Frankly, I don't know what to do about a nation whose priority during a time of crisis and evacuation is to give preference to parked cars on overpasses instead of supply and escape routes. That is absolute madness! And they could remedy the situation so easily. Just call in some tanks and/or bulldozers and push those cars off in the ditch in one or two spots and the rest of them would rush to clear out their cars in a minute.

[rametindallas]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

You respect what reasons for declining the offer of 'help'? When did the Thai government give reasons for denying US aid? Are you just making things up? Don't let your hatred of all things US deprive those suffering for weeks in flooded out areas from any and all help. Another selfish perspective.

[xthAi76s]

I would be entirely unsurprised if the agenda behind this alleged rejection was to further undermine the current government. Of course the US government would never interfere like that, so maybe I am being paranoid. Possibly the Thais looked at the US efforts in Katrina and said "Thanks, but no thanks"?

BTW, if you want to look for examples of government's rejecting needed aid, look no further than the USA:

Katrina aid from Cuba? No thanks, says U.S. America welcomes foreign help, except from an old Cold War foe

http://www.msnbc.msn...thanks-says-us/

That was an offer of 1100 urgently needed English speaking doctors for Katrina. Hate to break it to you, but Thailand is far from the only nation that is worried about 'face'.

Looking at all these responses on this thread and others, so many people report these kinds of "well the US did the same thing"-style arguments. Yes, the US has refused certain foreign aid before, but, in the example you're pointing out here, don't you think that 1) the richest country in the world, with 2) the absolutely best trained doctors (whether US or foreign born) could and did organize a very robust response without the aid of other nations? The answer is "yes".

Can you make the argument for Thailand currently as to their ability to organize a robust response to the flooding? The answer is "no". And, therein lies the 'different', no? Two different disasters; two different abilities to respond. So, while your statement is true in the form of: IF A THEN B , it is NOT true in the form of: THEREFORE IF B THEN A.

Why do so many people enjoy criticizing the US in this matter? It's strange.

[robokop]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

When a loved one of yours drowns or dies of some disease because this government couldn't save him or her, perhaps you'll change your tune. Perhaps there are political reasons for rejecting the USN's help. That's great. Play politics while people are suffering. More will die and that stupid puppet wants to play politics. The US isn't perfect but they've always been there to help when some disaster strikes somewhere in the world no questions asked.

The Indians declined foreign help during the Tsunami and so did Thaksin. I wonder how many more lives could have been saved if they weren't so stubborn. It's easy to play with other people's lives when your own family is safe and you don't really give a shit about the people you're supposedly serving.

The political hot air is flowing on this issue. The US Navy provided by far the greatest amount of aid to countries after the recent Tsunami hit Asia and Thailand. What mysterious gain did the USA get besides ungrateful name calling and smearing without any facts or even hints of what gains the USA would get by offering humanitarian aid, as the USA always does. Just what did the USA gain with all the aid they gave and delivered to Thailand after that Tsunami hit Thailand-go name it if you can. What gain does the USA get when US Navy personal does charity work in Thailand? Old saying-put up or shut up

[luangtom]

There are already 750,000-plus people suffering from water-borne disease and the "saving of face" takes precedence. It is unfathomable. I sure hope that Big Brother gains alot of support for his bid to return to Thailand after seeing how well he manages this from afar. Little Sis is not showing the world she is capable of managing crisis.

To turn-down humanitarian aid is a marker of just how inept things are being managed in this situation. One should garner help from all pockets of help and assistance. I wish the population the best of luck. Chok dee, Thailand, you will need it...............

[OzMick]

Before this wreck is done, Thailand will be asking for and getting help from a dozen or more nations and the UN.

Disease will likely break out due to people being forced into unhealthy living conditions.

I hope I am wrong but I see bad things ahead.

. . . I hope that I am wrong about this major disease thing, butwhen I see the Thai government refusing the aid of three or four US Navy shipsand personnel for two weeks, I have to resist the temptationr to do anything on their own and are stuck depending on a failed stateto help and communicate solutions.

Frankly, I don't know what to do about a nation whose priority during a time of crisis and evacuation is to give preference to parked cars on overpasses instead of supply and escape routes. That is absolute madness! And they could remedy the situation so easily. Just call in some tanks and/or bulldozers and push those cars off in the ditch in one or two spots and the rest of them would rush to clear out their cars in a minute.

Ummm..........they might not get too far if there was a metre of water on the road.

[Thailand]

I have yet to see any comments from government sources unless I missed it on this long thread.

So far only one side of the story?

[newermonkey]

"On October 15, a small ten-man team of US Marines traveled to Thailand to deliver thousands of sandbags and to assess how the American military could help with relief efforts"

sending sandbags is the least, what US government should be doing, in such situation. Much more important are basic medical supplies, medicines and equipment.

but, of course, it's a very strange position, not to accept an offer of help. Those marines could be used in rescue work, which is so much needed.

looks, life thai foreign ministry made a big mistake, because there weren't any diplomatic favours in exchange for help.

When offers of help are made and accepted it does not come free as some would like to think, the helping countries send their over inflated invoices later. Why would anyone think these countries are being charitable? no they are waiting to make a quick buck.

[EarthAlien]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

It's starting to look that way...

No they don't want people to die,... they just want to save face!

[Macmundi]

It's Thaksin's fault!!

[ElVez]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

To offer help is nice.

But if i look at the reaction here after the help offer got declined i can understand that some have their reasons to send the Americans away.

[rametindallas]

Just to play devils advocate here, the quote in the OP seems a bit odd:

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP

It is not clear if the 'government' bit was said at all as I have not seen anyone speak in brackets before.

There are posts here showing exsamples of the PM asking for help and the US military offering it before so could the branch ofd 'government' that is refusing help be the Thai military as the US military will obviously have high level contact with them directly due to the annual Cobra Gold exercises. There would also be the face issue as they would not want to see a foreign military doing what they are not capable of and, to be really cynical, would they really want a foreign military active on the streets of Bangkok if there wanted mount a coup to take control at some point.

Also it would be very difficult to overule the Thai military if they put a block on this without a major diplomatic incident (or indeed point the finger of blame!).

The Thai Military has historically close relations wiht the US Military so I'm pretty sure the veto didn't come from there, That leaves only the government that has lied and been paranoid that someone would find out how incompetent they are to be the ones to nix the help. If I am ever drowning, I don't care it it's Ahmadinajad who pulls me out of the water; I just want to be saved.

[bkkarn]

There are many reasons to refuse - just as there are many reasons to accept.

Politics never seem fair when there are people suffering however it is a reality of the world.

Yes, as someone commented earlier, there is the fear that favors expect and sometimes even force to a degree payback, historically true. While that may not be the case here, it is a sad reality that such things probably should be considered. And the US while I am sure they meant well, it does not look good sending in the heavy military given past history for which they are officially classes as an agressor by many governments. They may have forgot but the rest of the world has not.

Yes, there is the "loss of face" issues too. And I feel these are probably most substantial. There are many people with a lot of pride and ego who think an uncomfortable situation is a small price to pay to keep that ego (and power) safe. Maybe there are even gains to the disaster for some! - such is any system of corruption.

The truth is we never know the whole story let alone the reasons behind them, all we can do is guess. No point being negative about it either, just have to get on and do our part, there are many of us already here with a lot of power to help - even if it's just to make those around us more comfortable and less stressed

Edited October 25, 2011 by bkkarn

[moe666]

As one is aware, the United States and Thailand have been "friends" through out the Vietnam War era and afterwards. Annually there is military training done with the Thai army and navy from the US forces. The Thai government accepts this with no problem. It is a "shocker" for the Thai goverrnment NOT to accept help from the American military that has the resources of helicopters and men to assist in this massive, MASSIVE tragedy. I suppose "saving face" has something to do with it???? - Who knows.

If I remember correctly, the USA accepted foreign assistance with the Katrina flooding. All civilized countries accept help (such as Japan this year) when they need to save lives during a tragedy. (ok, Burma does not-- is Thailand wabt to be likeBurma?)

Actually Thailand has been a allie since the 1800s when they signed a treaty with President Lincoln. One of our oldest allies.

[chrisinchaam]

Not only the U.S. but other countries have ships around the world with disaster relief supplies ready to offer assistance in the times of natural disasters. The Thai government only needs to ask.

[lounger]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

I showed my thai wife a picture of USS George Washington and she said "its so big. Its engine can help push the water" So there we have it Thailand totally misunderstands the equipment and men this massive ship carries. The government probably rejected help as they cant see how the stupid Americans will get the George Washinton up the Chayo Praya.

[timberboy]

I would be entirely unsurprised if the agenda behind this alleged rejection was to further undermine the current government. Of course the US government would never interfere like that, so maybe I am being paranoid. Possibly the Thais looked at the US efforts in Katrina and said "Thanks, but no thanks"?

BTW, if you want to look for examples of government's rejecting needed aid, look no further than the USA:

Katrina aid from Cuba? No thanks, says U.S. America welcomes foreign help, except from an old Cold War foe

http://www.msnbc.msn...thanks-says-us/

That was an offer of 1100 urgently needed English speaking doctors for Katrina. Hate to break it to you, but Thailand is far from the only nation that is worried about 'face'.

Looking at all these responses on this thread and others, so many people report these kinds of "well the US did the same thing"-style arguments. Yes, the US has refused certain foreign aid before, but, in the example you're pointing out here, don't you think that 1) the richest country in the world, with 2) the absolutely best trained doctors (whether US or foreign born) could and did organize a very robust response without the aid of other nations? The answer is "yes".

Can you make the argument for Thailand currently as to their ability to organize a robust response to the flooding? The answer is "no". And, therein lies the 'different', no? Two different disasters; two different abilities to respond. So, while your statement is true in the form of: IF A THEN B , it is NOT true in the form of: THEREFORE IF B THEN A.

Why do so many people enjoy criticizing the US in this matter? It's strange.

Because it seems to be the worlds hobby. Take or dont take aid, and complain about the US.

Example Indira Ghandi in India accepted millions of dollars in American aid, and then turned around and said bad things about them. That is not a way to show gratitude, nor is it a professional response of a national leader, she should have been ashamed.

As for PM Yingluck, i think she just wants to prove to everyone that she can handle the problem without help from anyone,[ no matter how many Thais have to die and be homeless and suffer from illness and poverty], in order to prove it.

Edited October 25, 2011 by timberboy

[pomchop]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

So what other countries have offered up help? Criticise all you want but the USA is consistently the first country to show up at most disasters worldwide....and yes of course there may be all sorts of ulterior motives but when you're drowning and somebody throws you a life vest you grab it and say thank you. One would think perhaps China "the new world power" would be offering help but if they have i have not seen or heard about it.

[Orac]

Just to play devils advocate here, the quote in the OP seems a bit odd:

"There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP

It is not clear if the 'government' bit was said at all as I have not seen anyone speak in brackets before.

There are posts here showing exsamples of the PM asking for help and the US military offering it before so could the branch ofd 'government' that is refusing help be the Thai military as the US military will obviously have high level contact with them directly due to the annual Cobra Gold exercises. There would also be the face issue as they would not want to see a foreign military doing what they are not capable of and, to be really cynical, would they really want a foreign military active on the streets of Bangkok if there wanted mount a coup to take control at some point.

Also it would be very difficult to overule the Thai military if they put a block on this without a major diplomatic incident (or indeed point the finger of blame!).

The Thai Military has historically close relations wiht the US Military so I'm pretty sure the veto didn't come from there, That leaves only the government that has lied and been paranoid that someone would find out how incompetent they are to be the ones to nix the help. If I am ever drowning, I don't care it it's Ahmadinajad who pulls me out of the water; I just want to be saved.

Exactly my point - the close ties between the two militaries would suggest that there was some contact between them over this so it is not unreasonable to assume that they are one of the two channels being refered to.

Since we are told that one party said yes and the other no then it is not implausible that it was the Thai military saying no, particulary since the PM has openly solicited US support a week or so ago. It the Thai military was the party saying yes to this and was overuled by the government then it would put the government in conflict with the military and I would assume somebody from the military would be pointing this out pretty soon.

[ElVez]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Yeah..........yippie. Finally someone who hits the nail on the head.

US starts moving 3 battle ships into the Thai Gulf.......offer their help which is declined and then they start to moan that their help is declined.

Please US, stay out of this and solve your own shit first. (Oh and please do not refer to the Marshall plan, that was more than 60 years ago and Europe is still suffering.)

Help should come from UN and Red Cross. US is represented in both organisation and that should do it.

Just so I get it right: HERE we are, facing a crisis in drinking water ( i assume) like never before in the history of Thailand. And THERE is a nuclear powered battle-ship, that can produce hundreds of thousands of liters EVERY <deleted> SINGLE DAY and you send them away , because you don't like them? Nobody asked you to hang out with them on Nana! No one asked you to make a pilgrimage to the harbour every evening and praise them! They offered help and I am afraid, we will need all the help we can get! Soon! So put your sentiments behind you for who-ever-you-pray-to's sake!

So far there is no indication as to who exactly refused USA naval help.

There are 6 pages of assumption here that it was the Prime minister or her team.

Given that she has already invited U.S.relief efforts and previously asked for, and accepted U.S. helicopter support it might be unlikely that it was her personal refusal of help from the U.S. Navy.

So, exactly who turned down this offer of assistance ??

Any ideas ???

The Navy are saying there was one channel of acceptance and one of " no thanks".

Be nice to know who said no and why.

The Thai military maybe?

[gudtymchuk]

The US and Thai governments have a very long history of exchanging favors, tilted in the US' direction in some ways and in Thailand's direction in others. Like most countries, they trade favors and grant concessions and so on based on strategic interest. If you've ever flown into a regional airport in Thailand you've flown into something built by the US. These airports were originally USAF bases. I think most people know this. What's my point? The US used Thailand - with Thailand's consent - to run our disastrous war in SE Asia and Thailand used the US to build infrastructure and pry away money from the presence of the US forces. This special relationship extends to business concerns, diplomatic concerns and so on and, as has been noted, Cobra Gold is held here between the US and strategic regional partners. US passports are manufactured here. Heaps of US durable goods are manufactured here. When we launched our misguided occupation in the sandbox, Thailand sent troops and we sent aid and concessions. Similarly, Thailand housed a black prison for our pretty reprehensible extraordinary rendition program. We have a complex relationship with one another wherein each party gets something at one point or another with the US generally being on the asking end more often, but with a relatively warm reception in most cases behind closed doors. This is not a surprise to anyone with a brain.

I say all this to underscore the idiocy of those assuming this single act of sending humanitarian aid is some kind of trump card. It is no doubt a genuine desire to send help to a friendly nation with whom the US has a long relationship. It's unfathomable that it will come with some big asterisk, because that is not how the relationship between the US and Thailand works. It's a relationship built on mutual reacharounds, not on extortion via aid. In other words, both countries are in it for the long con, not the short con, so assuming that this carrier group would be tied to some backscratching deal is moronic.

Thanks emilb. A reasoned and well thought out post but will be totally lost on all those "hate everything American" droids.

[elektrified]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

It's starting to look that way...

It certainly does. A nuclear-powered aircraft carrier task force is capable of providing an astounding amount of assistance from electricity to medical care to food to water to manpower to evacuation helicopters. It runs the whole gamut of help that is unrivaled.

This is absolutely absurd of the government to turn it ALL away.

The incompetence of the new government has reached new levels so it seems. "There were two channels (in the Thai government)," the defense official told AFP. "One was saying 'Yes' and one was saying 'No.'"

The images of the PM in Lopburi in a large speed boat, fully made up, straight from the salon, with a Navy Captain's white cap and Navy blue blazer, waving at the peasants showed how out of touch with reality she is. It was akin to Bush looking down from his airplane as Louisiana was flooding and cracking fishing jokes over the phone with the old man Bush 41.

[timberboy]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

So what other countries have offered up help? Criticise all you want but the USA is consistently the first country to show up at most disasters worldwide....and yes of course there may be all sorts of ulterior motives but when you're drowning and somebody throws you a life vest you grab it and say thank you. One would think perhaps China "the new world power" would be offering help but if they have i have not seen or heard about it.

That would be nice however its bad timing. China is too busy wondering why the world is so upset about a 2 year old getting deliberately run over by a motorist and no body bothered to help her while she lay dieing in the street. Do you really think China is worried about Thais dieing in the street?

[EarthAlien]

I am a US citizen and you are right. Sad to say we do nothing for free. There is always some catch to it.

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Finally somebody talking sense jerrybuice and mezcal. The US military is no angel-like Good Samaritan

I am so fed up of seeing posts by those who are itching to belittle Thais by calling them names like "arrogant" and "stupid".

I give credit to the Thai government and I respect their reasons for declining the offer of "help".

The Indian government did the same declining foreign "help" in the wake of the 2004 Tsunami in the Tamil Nadu coastal areas. They also had their reasons.

You respect what reasons for declining the offer of 'help'? When did the Thai government give reasons for denying US aid? Are you just making things up? Don't let your hatred of all things US deprive those suffering for weeks in flooded out areas from any and all help. Another selfish perspective.

"Calling them names like arrogant and stupid" sorry but I agree with Forrest Gump on this one,... "stupid is as stupid does"! and the same goes for "arrogant".

You give "credit" to the Thai government,... what in the heck for?,... burying their heads in the sand for the past 6 weeks at least when they knew that this would be inevitable but all sat on their hands doing nothing. Meanwhile hundreds of innocent people have died and lost everything!

Not declaring a SOE is one thing that could be argued with some political merit but to invoke an alternative declaration of disaster and then to have no solid strategy or function to implement it is just plain ,... err..excuse me "stupid"!

[elektrified]

The US and Thai governments have a very long history of exchanging favors, tilted in the US' direction in some ways and in Thailand's direction in others. Like most countries, they trade favors and grant concessions and so on based on strategic interest. If you've ever flown into a regional airport in Thailand you've flown into something built by the US. These airports were originally USAF bases. I think most people know this. What's my point? The US used Thailand - with Thailand's consent - to run our disastrous war in SE Asia and Thailand used the US to build infrastructure and pry away money from the presence of the US forces. This special relationship extends to business concerns, diplomatic concerns and so on and, as has been noted, Cobra Gold is held here between the US and strategic regional partners. US passports are manufactured here. Heaps of US durable goods are manufactured here. When we launched our misguided occupation in the sandbox, Thailand sent troops and we sent aid and concessions. Similarly, Thailand housed a black prison for our pretty reprehensible extraordinary rendition program. We have a complex relationship with one another wherein each party gets something at one point or another with the US generally being on the asking end more often, but with a relatively warm reception in most cases behind closed doors. This is not a surprise to anyone with a brain.

I say all this to underscore the idiocy of those assuming this single act of sending humanitarian aid is some kind of trump card. It is no doubt a genuine desire to send help to a friendly nation with whom the US has a long relationship. It's unfathomable that it will come with some big asterisk, because that is not how the relationship between the US and Thailand works. It's a relationship built on mutual reacharounds, not on extortion via aid. In other words, both countries are in it for the long con, not the short con, so assuming that this carrier group would be tied to some backscratching deal is moronic.

Thanks emilb. A reasoned and well thought out post but will be totally lost on all those "hate everything American" droids.

+1

Excellent post.

[bangkokrick]

To refuse help from the US is bordering on insanity. What is better, to lose 'face' or to lose lives?

The way things are going the Government will end up begging for International help. The flood is the tip of the iceberg,as the coming diseases are going to be the biggest problem.