Pheu Thai And Red Shirts Do Nothing To Help Their Own

[rogerdee123]

Personally, I believe you earlier posters may have the translation a little wrong.

I believe it says:

Yellow and blue shirts pay double.

I made a comment about the girl in the shorts and overstepped the bounds of TV decency ....

Edited October 29, 2011 by rogerdee123

[MAJIC]

Nick, what have you seen in relation to relief goods being labelled with PT / Thaksin / Red shirt stickers and banners? There seems to be a lot of evidence of it happening.

There are many organizations that label their relief supplies, which is normal in any disaster zone. On the ground is so much happening, and i do honestly not see that much going on as is suggested here. Maybe i am in the wrong places for that, as i go to the worst inundated areas to take pictures there. I have met there many Red Shirts, both affected, and helping, and there just is not much political talk going on at all, but talk about the flood, and trying to keep a smile to get over this mess.

Both Red Shirts and military say the same thing - that the colors are right now not important, but working together is.

That is all i can say about this now, and i gotta get going.

Later, Nick

So please enlighten us,which organisations have labelled their Aid goods/relief supplies???? with Photographs and the named Doners,plastered on them???

Edited October 29, 2011 by MAJIC

[petedk]

I just walked along one of the small sois off Ekamai. There is a slum like area along one of the small canals there. I saw a group of men (three or four) handing out cases of bottled water to many people dressed in red shirts. They received three or four cases of bottles (case = six small bottles) without paying. I wonder where those bottles came from and where they are going. Who paid for them?

The girl friend asked if they were handing out free water. "Only to red shirts " was the reply. I'd like to have taken a photo or video but decided it was too risky.

There are no floods here so why are these people getting free water? In fact right next to where they were handing out the water there is one of the water machines.

[metisdead]

Discussion of Pheu Thai And Red Shirts Do Nothing To Help Their Own would be on topic to this thread while the discussion of the PAD would be another topic altogether. Off topic posts removed, and will continue to be removed.

Posts with reference to HM the King have been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

[DP25]

So please enlighten us,which organisations have labelled their Aid goods/relief supplies???? with Photographs and the named Doners,plastered on them???

Remember during Hurrican Katrina when when they put George Bush stickers on the government and foreign aid headed to New Orleans, and they drove around in boats in that said Neo-Cons only?

Oh wait, in any normal country that would be unthinkable. Here you have some thinking this is not only normal but defending the practice

Edited October 29, 2011 by DP25

[MAJIC]

So please enlighten us,which organisations have labelled their Aid goods/relief supplies???? with Photographs and the named Doners,plastered on them???

Remember during Hurrican Katrina when when they put George Bush stickers on the government and foreign aid headed to New Orleans, and they drove around in boats in that said Neo-Cons only?

Oh wait, in any normal country that would be unthinkable. Here you have some thinking this is not only normal but defending the practice

That being the case,which you saw,then it becomes Politically motivated,

and unacceptable in any Country!

[DocN]

Since only 1 truck has been photographed showing Thaksin's name, and hundreds of trucks are driving through Bangkok with aid packages without anything on them, I think it's safe to say that he has indeed donated these items.

If he wants to put his name on his donations, that's his choice. He can do that. He paid for them.

So before this gets any more ridiculous, please drop it.

But of course, the conspiracy theorists here will always find something new.

Anything to back that up, or is it just your opinion?

He just made it up

Don't bother with him. You could prove him wrong on this and then he'll only make something else up.

Actually MrT donated something. From the breaking news section yesterday:

"Thaicom Foundation presented 20 floating toilets and 1,000 emergency toilet sets through Thaksin Shinawatra's three children."

How better can he say to his people "See, now you can take care of your own s***!"

That wasn't even remotely funny!

[DocN]

Hi Nick, I have the same observation on the ground here in Pathum Thani as you do, although more limited as I have not gone too far from our flooded house. Everyone here is pitching in to help, good spirits, I don't see any of the kind of thing that certifiable nutcase Thanong writes about.

I am afraid your plea will fall on deaf ears here. For reasons I cannot fathom TVF is a farang yellow shirt redoubt, slightly to the right of Attila the Hun politically. I know you are busy, but when you have time I would like to hear your theories of just why that is so? I know a few Thai red shirts opponents who would be ashamed by some of the crap washing up here. A lot of it is from people who could not understand directions in Thai to their corner 7/11, but somehow they are past masters of Thai current events. Mind boggling.

Thaksin's apologists trying to get their act together. When they are saying let's drop the politics it is because they are trying to push away the spotlight from the response of this hopeless government (directed by Thaksin) whose main contribution has been to refuse declaring a SOE (can't be seen reliant on the army), refusing support from the USA (Thaksin still upset that the US released phone-taps showing his direction of the red actions in 2010) and having little to say except ministers declaring 'the worst is over', lets push some synchronised boats up the CP River and the PMs tears of oh woe is me. Keep it up chaps.

I am by no means an apologist, I am not for or against Thaksin or Abisisth- what I know of Thai- politicians disgusts me too much to favor any of them. I am also not pro YS, just because I sympathize with her as a person I SEE trying and doing her best in a hopeless situation she has been pushed into and really, deeply and honestly believe, she had NO CLUE, this would be upon her.

What most of the people, you so arrogantly label as apologists,want, is to create an atmosphere of a fair debate. What some of these people (me included) wat, is to tackle this crisis in an atmosphere of comfort and help, empathy and compassion.

I have done it before and I will continue, to criticise YS, AV, the govenor, FROC and everybody else who eff's up. But I will try to do this as objectively as I can- but my main objective is for all of us, and especially for the poor, to get out of this mess. I have been flying to CNX 3 days ago, I have seen, what is "out there" and I was shocked. And if I could, I would weave a magic wand (as I guess most of wish they could) and make all that water disapear into thin air. But after all: seing Thaksin the horrible behind all the evil in the world, and repeating this opinion hourly and mostly just to see your own name on a forum, DOES NOT HELP! I am disgusted by the fact that they label things "red". There is no question. And I want this to be investigated. But now IS NOT THE TIME! If this is over, we can get our deggars and sabres and will be right there (knowing, that no one gives an f about it, as I am farang and whatever I say holds no value here anyways). But now: please drop it and work together. Your negativism is not helping anyone.

And when this is over

[animatic]

So please enlighten us,which organisations have labelled their Aid goods/relief supplies???? with Photographs and the named Doners,plastered on them???

Remember during Hurrican Katrina when when they put George Bush stickers on the government and foreign aid headed to New Orleans, and they drove around in boats in that said Neo-Cons only?

Oh wait, in any normal country that would be unthinkable. Here you have some thinking this is not only normal but defending the practice

That being the case,which you saw,then it becomes Politically motivated,

and unacceptable in any Country!

He's saying he didn't see that.

The 1st line was a set-up nothing more.

[Gweiloman]

Anything to back that up, or is it just your opinion?

He just made it up

Don't bother with him. You could prove him wrong on this and then he'll only make something else up.

Actually MrT donated something. From the breaking news section yesterday:

"Thaicom Foundation presented 20 floating toilets and 1,000 emergency toilet sets through Thaksin Shinawatra's three children."

How better can he say to his people "See, now you can take care of your own s***!"

That wasn't even remotely funny!

Ah, but that's because you don't hate Thaksin beyond all reason

[Publicus]

Nick is a genuine, accredited and legally working photographer and journo in Thailand. I think even his detractors would usually admit this. He has also published several books. If you care to read anything he has written you will find it is better sourced, evidenced and more balanced than a lot of mainstream stuff.

For the record, I do not agree with everything Nick writes but it is mostly at the level of interpretation of events or motivations of players which is obviously more open to different opinions and our own biases.

Also for the record, you will find if you follow his work at NM, he has been serially attacked by certain red shirt supporters at times

+1

I haven't got around to reading any of Nick's books, but, from his posts here, I think they would give a lot of good background information on many events ... even if there might be some bias in them.

Well, nobody is free of sympathies, and i have never hidden mine.

What for me though is most important is accuracy and objectivity in factual reporting, and not to let sympathies get into the way of facts, either by misrepresentation of facts, or more a more subtle form of bias - by omission of inconvenient facts.

The original article here by Thanong contains both breaches against our ethics. Even opinion pieces are bound by facts.

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Publicus

[animatic]

Nick is a genuine, accredited and legally working photographer and journo in Thailand. I think even his detractors would usually admit this. He has also published several books. If you care to read anything he has written you will find it is better sourced, evidenced and more balanced than a lot of mainstream stuff.

For the record, I do not agree with everything Nick writes but it is mostly at the level of interpretation of events or motivations of players which is obviously more open to different opinions and our own biases.

Also for the record, you will find if you follow his work at NM, he has been serially attacked by certain red shirt supporters at times

+1

I haven't got around to reading any of Nick's books, but, from his posts here, I think they would give a lot of good background information on many events ... even if there might be some bias in them.

Well, nobody is free of sympathies, and i have never hidden mine.

What for me though is most important is accuracy and objectivity in factual reporting, and not to let sympathies get into the way of facts, either by misrepresentation of facts, or more a more subtle form of bias - by omission of inconvenient facts.

The original article here by Thanong contains both breaches against our ethics. Even opinion pieces are bound by facts.

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfooery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

And are 100% entitled within journalistic ethics to have and to state those opinions as they see fit.

[GentlemanJim]

Personally, I believe you earlier posters may have the translation a little wrong.

I believe it says:

Yellow and blue shirts pay double.

Nope! It definitely says 'Only redshirts".

[qualtrough]

Nick is a genuine, accredited and legally working photographer and journo in Thailand. I think even his detractors would usually admit this. He has also published several books. If you care to read anything he has written you will find it is better sourced, evidenced and more balanced than a lot of mainstream stuff.

For the record, I do not agree with everything Nick writes but it is mostly at the level of interpretation of events or motivations of players which is obviously more open to different opinions and our own biases.

Also for the record, you will find if you follow his work at NM, he has been serially attacked by certain red shirt supporters at times

+1

I haven't got around to reading any of Nick's books, but, from his posts here, I think they would give a lot of good background information on many events ... even if there might be some bias in them.

Well, nobody is free of sympathies, and i have never hidden mine.

What for me though is most important is accuracy and objectivity in factual reporting, and not to let sympathies get into the way of facts, either by misrepresentation of facts, or more a more subtle form of bias - by omission of inconvenient facts.

The original article here by Thanong contains both breaches against our ethics. Even opinion pieces are bound by facts.

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

<deleted>?

[qualtrough]

Hi Nick, I have the same observation on the ground here in Pathum Thani as you do, although more limited as I have not gone too far from our flooded house. Everyone here is pitching in to help, good spirits, I don't see any of the kind of thing that certifiable nutcase Thanong writes about.

I am afraid your plea will fall on deaf ears here. For reasons I cannot fathom TVF is a farang yellow shirt redoubt, slightly to the right of Attila the Hun politically. I know you are busy, but when you have time I would like to hear your theories of just why that is so? I know a few Thai red shirts opponents who would be ashamed by some of the crap washing up here. A lot of it is from people who could not understand directions in Thai to their corner 7/11, but somehow they are past masters of Thai current events. Mind boggling.

Mind boggling indeed.

In order to be accepted and qualified as unbiased here, one has to hate and despise the Red Shirts.

I have a few theories...

I can remember one elderly farang in the pink shirt protests (before they changed into the multi-colored's) who was screaming repeatedly into our cameras in horrible Thai that he loves Thailand, and is Thai ("phom rak prathet Thai - phom pen khon Thai"), which was rather embarrassing (i won't put the photo here, or publish it anywhere, i do not want to further embarrass him, but it was shown on Thai TV). To be fair - there was a similar incident in 2009, where in the middle of a speach by Somchai Wongsawat during the Red Shirt protests a farang interrupted the speech by screaming the same, that he loved Thailand, and hat he was Thai. I was on the stage taking pics, and really wished i wasn't there.

Another farang in one of the multi-colored protests, the one where they went to the 11th infantry regiment, shouted at me, as soon as he saw me with my camera (also in very bad Thai) if i want to interview him. I said no, and he told me to go away (which i anyhow was, as speaking with obviously mentally unstable farang is not really my thing).

On a nastier note, i had in 2008 several arguments with one or the other farang who worked as spies for the PAD, and followed me and other foreign journalists around PAD occupied Government House, and photographed us.

Thanks Nick. I still wonder what caused them to identify so thoroughly with one faction in Thai politics to the point of quasi-insanity? Some enterprising grad student could make a name for his/her self with a dissertation dissecting this phenomena. Stay safe out there!

[Gweiloman]

Well, nobody is free of sympathies, and i have never hidden mine.

What for me though is most important is accuracy and objectivity in factual reporting, and not to let sympathies get into the way of facts, either by misrepresentation of facts, or more a more subtle form of bias - by omission of inconvenient facts.

The original article here by Thanong contains both breaches against our ethics. Even opinion pieces are bound by facts.

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

<deleted>?

Hahaha. The mark of a good comment is whether it's easily understood, not just by people for whom English is a native language, but also for others who may not be as fluent or eloquent. I will let other readers judge for themselves.

[monkfish]

Personally, I believe you earlier posters may have the translation a little wrong.

I believe it says:

Yellow and blue shirts pay double.

Nope! It definitely says 'Only redshirts".

So are all those people on board Red Shirts?

I notice they all have one red item.

[animatic]

1319901320[/url]' post='4806376']

1319900423[/url]' post='4806339']

1319899330[/url]' post='4806306']

1319860717[/url]' post='4804503']

Well, nobody is free of sympathies, and i have never hidden mine.

What for me though is most important is accuracy and objectivity in factual reporting, and not to let sympathies get into the way of facts, either by misrepresentation of facts, or more a more subtle form of bias - by omission of inconvenient facts.

The original article here by Thanong contains both breaches against our ethics. Even opinion pieces are bound by facts.

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

<deleted>?

Hahaha. The mark of a good comment is whether it's easily understood, not just by people for whom English is a native language, but also for others who may not be as fluent or eloquent. I will let other readers judge for themselves.

He is a jounalist, this forum is in English. What he says is perfectly legible. Your comments can not diminish his, even as you seem to want him to dumb down to some school boy level of discussion. Not to mention, that this is two generations of journalists discussing the apparent degradation in applied journalistic ethics application. Publicus gave the long standing classical application, as is understood by most quality journalists world wide.

Edited October 29, 2011 by animatic

[monkfish]

Took the liberty of making a translation for those who do not speak Thai.

Have to admit I also couldn't get the reflection of the white sticker right so left it out.

P.S. aren't reflections normally reversed??

Anyway not to confuse people as being original I watermarked it.

[philw]

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

You have to be kidding.

Your last sentence is astonishing, truly astonishing.

And this one ..."The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally....."

And my Mother's the Pope.............

( heres the boat we missed )

[philw]

Took the liberty of making a translation for those who do not speak Thai.

Have to admit I also couldn't get the reflection of the white sticker right so left it out.

P.S. aren't reflections normally reversed??

Anyway not to confuse people as being original I watermarked it.

This is discussed on another forum and it's authenticity seriously questioned.

I think you are correct, it's photoshopped.

As could be the picture I just posted, but I don't think so.

Edited October 29, 2011 by philw

[Gweiloman]

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

<deleted>?

Hahaha. The mark of a good comment is whether it's easily understood, not just by people for whom English is a native language, but also for others who may not be as fluent or eloquent. I will let other readers judge for themselves.

He is a jounalist, this forum is in English. What he says is perfectly legible. Your comments can not diminish his, even as you seem to want him to dumb down to some school boy level of discussion. Not to mention, that this is two generations of journalists discussing the apparent degradation in applied journalistic ethics application. Publicus gave the long standing classical application, as is understood by most quality journalists world wide.

Don't delude yourself that you're the only person who understands a piece written in over the top, flowery and bombastic English. Ever heard of KISS (keep it simple, stupid).

The OP report is so blatantly biased and one sided that only the prejudiced and insanely blind can defend it. It's no wonder that some posters here can sit in front of their PC's and post continously thoughout the day. Like Billynomates, only that no one could be bothered to engage in face to face conversation with them.

[monkfish]

Took the liberty of making a translation for those who do not speak Thai.

Have to admit I also couldn't get the reflection of the white sticker right so left it out.

P.S. aren't reflections normally reversed??

Anyway not to confuse people as being original I watermarked it.

This is discussed on another forum and it's authenticity seriously questioned.

I think you are correct, it's photoshopped.

As could be the picture I just posted, but I don't think so.

One technique used to make fake photos is work big reduce then add a lot of noise.

That's what I did except didn't work big otherwise it would have been better.

Video is also possible but more difficult but I can do it given enough time.

Looks like photo grain but most digital cameras these days don't have grain unless you are set to iso 800 or above. So if the image has to much grain don't trust it too much.

Did you see the last letter in the big white text? Its not reversed? that's what makes me think FAKE also no reflection of the sticker.

P.S did you see the other mods I did?

Edited October 29, 2011 by monkfish

[rubl]

This is discussed on another forum and it's authenticity seriously questioned.

I think you are correct, it's photoshopped.

As could be the picture I just posted, but I don't think so.

One technique used to make fake photos is work big reduce then add a lot of noise.

Looks like photo grain but most digital cameras these days don't have grain unless you are set to iso 800 or above.

Did you see the last letter in the big white text? Its not reversed? that's what makes me think FAKE also no reflection of the sticker.

P.S did you see the other mods I did?

Not my field of expertise, no comment. Still it reminds me of the "Thaksin visits Mandela" controversy. Lots of experts discussing shades, colours, minute details. In the end the photo was accepted as real

[tlansford]

Took the liberty of making a translation for those who do not speak Thai.

Have to admit I also couldn't get the reflection of the white sticker right so left it out.

P.S. aren't reflections normally reversed??

Anyway not to confuse people as being original I watermarked it.

Thank you for expressly demonstrating one possible explanation for the photo. It is hard to imagine people being so callous in a natural disaster.

[TomnearCentral]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

[nicknostitz]

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

I believe you confuse gutter journalism with modern journalism. There are many very interesting publications that have vibrant, modern approaches to journalism. None of them in Thailand can hold themselves long though, and are most definitely not to be found in either the Nation or in the Bangkok Post, which, by international standards, are so bad that you cannot even call them antiquated. And no - neither the Nation nor the Bangkok Post have ever been proponents of modern journalism. Thailand has far better publications in the newspaper genre anyhow, such as Matichon or Thai Rath.

The few good journalists at the Nation and the Bangkok Post do unfortunately not change this sad fact. Go to India for excellent newspapers, and to a free and vibrant press, if we want to stay in this part of the world.

If you want to read modern journalism you have to read for example Germany's Lettre for top standard journalism, or Colors in his heyday for extremely modern magazine journalism.

And in the world of journalism i am working, that is international publications, the fact based story is far from dead. Several publications i regularly work with have entire departments that are checking facts of each single story before it goes to print. Journalists that are liberal with facts are soon out of job and their reputations destroyed, and even possible legal consequences follow, if found out.

Anyhow, here a few beauties of Thanong that are provably false, with reckless disregard of the facts, or simply idiotic:

Thanong:

The police force is an idle watcher of the tragedy.

False.

The police is actively working in the flood districts. I have been with police officers patrolling on boats inundated neighborhoods, trying to guard them against thieves. I have photos of police officers helping people evacuate, both on boats and lorries. Etc.

In most countries in the world it is anyhow soldiers that are foremost asked to do disaster relief work. Police has still their regular duties to perform.

Thanong:

Korbsak Sabhavasu, the Democrat's strategist,

...who with his antiquated and completely confuse election campaign strategies has strongly contributed to the election loss of the Democrats. I shudder seeing this man in charge of anything. I could tell you a few more funny stories about him.

Thanong:

Pheu Thai MPs and ministers are not helping flood victims. They are nowhere to be seen. Where are they?

False, and the answer: out there working. I have seen Sae Daeng's daughter inspecting one of the worst areas. Today i have seen the Dusit Pueah Thai MP at the breach at Samsen Soi 21, inspecting the repair works by soldiers and residents. She was in the water. They may not have the time to drop into Thanong's office so he can see them.

Thanong:

Red-shirt leaders have not come out to help those affected by the floods either.

Entirely false. They have been helping since the beginning of the floods, both being on the ground (as can be seen on their TV station), and managing donation centers, lead relief teams, collect donations for victims, etc.

Thanong:

At the same time, Pheu Thai wants to go against the military by pushing for legislation to nullify the coup in 2006. Jatuporn Promphan, a red-shirt leader, is trying to have the Defence Ministry's regulations amended so that the government can have more control over the reshuffling of military posts

That attempt to reign in the military has already begun long before the floods. And what is so wrong about having a military under control of elected governments?

Thanong:

Yingluck has refused international assistance although Thailand is facing bankruptcy from the floods. I was told that Ban Ki-moon, the secretary-general of the United Nations, asked the prime minister how the UN could help. Yingluck's response was to the effect that UN assistance would not be needed. The US offered to send aircraft carriers, which were also refused. Why did she refuse international assistance, which now has to go through private channels rather than official channels.

Where has the Thai Government refused international assistance, please? The US ambassador has already stated that the article by AFP about the refusal of the aircraft carrier is false. In FROC are international experts. etc.

And is UN assistance needed now? I see so far the authorities handling the mess quite well. On the ground things are as well ordered as can be under the circumstances.

Thanong:

Who are the invisible hands who apparently have a malicious intent for Thailand?

If you, dear "Publicus" are calling this ending "modern journalism", then you have me baffled. I call this right wing loony conspiracy theory rubbish.

[monkfish]

This is discussed on another forum and it's authenticity seriously questioned.

I think you are correct, it's photoshopped.

As could be the picture I just posted, but I don't think so.

One technique used to make fake photos is work big reduce then add a lot of noise.

Looks like photo grain but most digital cameras these days don't have grain unless you are set to iso 800 or above.

Did you see the last letter in the big white text? Its not reversed? that's what makes me think FAKE also no reflection of the sticker.

P.S did you see the other mods I did?

Not my field of expertise, no comment. Still it reminds me of the "Thaksin visits Mandela" controversy. Lots of experts discussing shades, colours, minute details. In the end the photo was accepted as real

Remember those pictures I think some were real and some fake.

I think he was just trying to confuse the Foreign minister about his location.

[whybother]

One technique used to make fake photos is work big reduce then add a lot of noise.

That's what I did except didn't work big otherwise it would have been better.

Video is also possible but more difficult but I can do it given enough time.

Looks like photo grain but most digital cameras these days don't have grain unless you are set to iso 800 or above. So if the image has to much grain don't trust it too much.

Did you see the last letter in the big white text? Its not reversed? that's what makes me think FAKE also no reflection of the sticker.

P.S did you see the other mods I did?

The last letter is interesting. But I don't think someone would go to that much effort to fake that part of the photo.

I don't believe the photo is fake, but if it is, only the white sticker would have been added. But the reason, IMO, there is no reflection of the white sticker is that it would be out of the bottom of the picture. The top of the red sticker is also out of the photo.

It would also be hard to bend and twist the writing on the "sticker" if faking it.

[hanuman1]

Took the liberty of making a translation for those who do not speak Thai.

Have to admit I also couldn't get the reflection of the white sticker right so left it out.

P.S. aren't reflections normally reversed??

Anyway not to confuse people as being original I watermarked it.

Well now that is interesting. Even photos can't be trusted these days.