cowslip Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Incapable of forming normal relationships they flood to Thailand where their "wealth" enables them to buy the things that were denied them by their own society which shuns their "type". Here they can live out a fantasy that is essentially misogynistic and racist in nature and panders to their over simplistic untutored view of the world. Is a normal relationship one where the woman gets to asset strip the man after producing a kid or two? If so, most of us older males have had normal relationships. And the younger men are merely waiting for their relationships to become 'normal' I admit to no longer considering white skinned people as sexual partners, if that makes me a racist, so be it. QED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besth Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 A bit true. Frustration plays a big part on what we foreigners feel, but Thailand is still the place we choose to live. Not perfect by far, but better than the other options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TingTawng Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Here they can live out a fantasy that is essentially misogynistic and racist in nature and panders to their over simplistic untutored view of the world. Soi Cowboy is not a microcosm of Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowslip Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Here they can live out a fantasy that is essentially misogynistic and racist in nature and panders to their over simplistic untutored view of the world. Soi Cowboy is not a microcosm of Thailand. Is this just a random remark or does it have some relevance? Perhaps you could expand on the statement? Edited November 9, 2011 by cowslip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TingTawng Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Here they can live out a fantasy that is essentially misogynistic and racist in nature and panders to their over simplistic untutored view of the world. Soi Cowboy is not a microcosm of Thailand. Is this just a random remark or does it have some relevance? Perhaps you could expand on the statement? Your original comment assumes all the usual stereotypes that are more fitting to the patrons of Soi Cowboy (mainly short-term tourists), not ex-pats who live up and down the country. I'm just saying that this is a tiny (albeit infamous) part of the farang community in Thailand. Edited November 9, 2011 by TingTawng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowslip Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Here they can live out a fantasy that is essentially misogynistic and racist in nature and panders to their over simplistic untutored view of the world. Soi Cowboy is not a microcosm of Thailand. Is this just a random remark or does it have some relevance? Perhaps you could expand on the statement? Your original comment assumes all the usual stereotypes that are more fitting to the patrons of Soi Cowboy (mainly short-term tourists), not ex-pats who live up and down the country. I'm just saying that this is a tiny (albeit infamous) part of the farang community in Thailand. No sir... that is down to your limited comprehension of my post - you are making the assumptions and drawing the inference that I'm referring to stereotypes. Furthermore I've never been to "Soi Cowboy" - my experience of expats is largely drawn from work....and extensive travel around Thailand - I don't deal in "microcosms". If you are saying that many expats don't fit this mold then please give some examples....I think that the country and environment here dictates to a great extent the "who what and why" of expat migration here. It also is reflected in the paucity of their arguments in particular when they see themselves being reflected in a poor light. Edited November 9, 2011 by cowslip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJohnson Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I saw many people complaining on this forum about corruption, police and different type of scams. When I came to Thailand first time, taxi driver told me to pay 2500 for the trip from Suvarnabhumi to Bangkok hotel. I knew that taxi meter was working wrong but I was tired after almost 34 hours without sleep and did not want to argue. In Russia trip from airport to center of the Moscow will be almost the same, so I paid him. Few minutes later I found some very friendly Thai people who helped me to find hotel. Motorbike driver took only ten THB (I offered him 100). Later I mention that taxi drivers used to do circles to make more money. There were a lot of different events in Thailand with me, but I see that there are much more good and friendly people here rather then bad people. Anyway anything that happened in Thailand is very far from events in Russia. My level of English is far from perfect but I think this is a good idiom for this: who has never tasted bitter, knows not what is sweet. Probability that someone will call you '<deleted>' (whatever nationality you are) in Thailand is very small. In Russia it happen sometimes. Maybe it is soviet heritage, when everybody thought that enemies are everywhere, I don't know. I spoke with my English teacher (from UK) who came to live in Russia, he told me that he like to stay here in Russia despite some conditions and events. How much of the people who complain about Thais know Thai language at least at Intermediate level? Why do people think that any Thai person should talk with them perfect English/Russian/whatever other language? There are two different options: to complain or to do some action. Some people prefer to complain rather then to learn language/go back to their county/commit suicide. sb - unfortunately you will find in general in thailand that the expats who do not speak or understand any thai or understand very little, are the ones most likely to have a very positive view of the place. if you can understand thai and understand what is being said by the thais around you it tends to change ideas about the thai attitude somewhat. i don't think you will find one westerner in the forum here who understands and speaks thai to a decent level who will disagree with that. Yes, very good point. Once I began to understand what was being said things suddenly didn't see quite so rosy. However, like most places it is the particular individuals that are speaking that makes the difference. For example you will not hear most bar girls, taxis drivers and soup vendors talking about philosophy, history, economics or the like . The uninformed, ill-informed, miss-informed and ignorant all sound the same, regardless of the language they speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TingTawng Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 my experience of expats is largely drawn from work....and extensive travel around Thailand So you're stereotyping based on your experiences? Fair enough. And in your experience, most farang men are misogynists and racists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillside4Phil Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 As Brian once said in the Life of Brian 'There is just no pleasing some people' When I was in Chiang Mai and cannot wait to get back there, I was studying Thai language and a farang asked me why I bothered, he has been in Thailand and cannot speak a word. To me that was just poor, why live in a country that long, slag off the country so much, I asked him why he doesn't go back to Western Australia, he replied that it was too expensive. How pathetic, I was in Thailand about one year but with medical reasons have to seek treatment here at home and while it took time to adjust with the ways of the Thai people I enjoyed the challenge and look forward to getting back there and back to the study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowslip Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) my experience of expats is largely drawn from work....and extensive travel around Thailand So you're stereotyping based on your experiences? Fair enough. And in your experience, most farang men are misogynists and racists? I'm not stereotyping - you are drawing that inference - presumably because you are incapable of forming a proper response.....and you are living up to your own "stereotype"!. Edited November 9, 2011 by cowslip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 An off topic post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gers1873 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Often venting sounds like hatred to many people especially when the written word is used and the nuances of facial expression and body language are missed. Lived in a number of countries where a common rematk from expats was "I hate this so-and-so place" I would then ask how long have you been here 20 years.....!!!! Often its just frustration, knowing you cant change anything, as opposed to hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 - @ berk(sic) and beetle - points well made fellas - couldn't agree more. - @ monkeyface - quite so, we aren't all the same (but we ARE equal) and some of the differences are to be celebrated, others are perfect fodder for idle bitching on expat forums.... - i like to be even handed in my misanthropic and jaded views of the places i live and work in - but i confess can't! i'm only mildly exasperated and generally bemused by the muddle that life in thailand is at all levels, no real venom or spite for the place. but ask me what i don't like about the united kingdom of greedy bastards that i left behind to come here all those years ago, or saudi arabia where i work offshore to earn a crust.... well, just don't get me started!! I may not agree with some of your opinions, but I certainly respect that you handled my satire quite well. You correctly deduced that it was not directed at you personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedonist44 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 my experience of expats is largely drawn from work....and extensive travel around Thailand So you're stereotyping based on your experiences? Fair enough. And in your experience, most farang men are misogynists and racists? I'm not stereotyping - you are drawing that inference - presumably because you are incapable of forming a proper response.....and you are living up to your own "stereotype"!. Why don't you two stop the pissing match. Gets a bit embarrassing having a couple of expats going at it back and forth like a couple of spoiled brats. No wonder Thais have a laugh at some of us, especially when acting as you both are here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 sb - unfortunately you will find in general in thailand that the expats who do not speak or understand any thai or understand very little, are the ones most likely to have a very positive view of the place. if you can understand thai and understand what is being said by the thais around you it tends to change ideas about the thai attitude somewhat. i don't think you will find one westerner in the forum here who understands and speaks thai to a decent level who will disagree with that. I'm sorry GooEng, but I strongly disagree with this sentiment. Strong Thai language skills will definitely enhance your quality of life in Thailand. This includes not only being able to function independently in Thailand, but also not getting ripped off, as well as your chances with the ladies. If you confine yourself to only English-speaking Thai women, for example, you're narrowing yourself to a very small subset of Thai women, and usually not the most attractive or trustworthy. It seems that many farangs who have given up on learning Thai (or just don't have the aptitude to even try) tend to try and convince all other foreigners that it's counter-productive, that it's pointless. Some even try to do it with a straight face. This is nonsense. It's simply a "misery loves company" sort of attitude. It is of immense benefit to learn the local language any where you go on this planet. Thailand is no exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I have often wondered why people would live somewhere that they hate so much. You want to see hate? Take a look at the News (political) forum and see how many reasonable posts you see as compared to bitter hateful posts. Maybe these highly educated and worldly farangs come here and find an uneducated country girl or boy half their age. They end up getting fleeced and now cannot afford to go back to their home country. Maybe they are ashamed to go back home broke with their tail between their legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting123 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I agree and often wonder why so many aliens; legal and illegal, including orientals slag off the US. If they don't like it they should go back to their own countries. I'm glad you agree; if you don't love America, shut your mouth or leave!! Well said Bonzai Well, shall I confess I did not love USA (while positively loving America, that is a continent) when I first went there , in august 1980. As it happened that I was wrong in my feelings, and that I did not "not love USa" , but simpy hated all that were here (people, culture ... oooooooops lake of culture I do mean .... und so weiter, und so weiter); I indeed decided to turn back, and show my butt to such disgracefull country and citisens (traditional and formal insult in my region, mostly since 1678). Dear Kilgore, all of that to say USA are NOT America, not even in your wet dreams; and yes there are billions who thanks God to not be born in such poor country; while there are some hundreds of millions who feel proud to be born in the country of KFC, MacDonald and G.W. Bush (the dwarf!). So it is, live and lets live, as long as the yanks remenber if they are not anymore colonists it is because the Good King of France, and not because some laughtable 'manifest destiny". By the way, for a moderator, it was an example on how Hate is always easy to come, mostly when there are no logical reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I have often wondered why people would live somewhere that they hate so much. You want to see hate? Take a look at the News (political) forum and see how many reasonable posts you see as compared to bitter hateful posts. Maybe these highly educated and worldly farangs come here and find an uneducated country girl or boy half their age. They end up getting fleeced and now cannot afford to go back to their home country. Maybe they are ashamed to go back home broke with their tail between their legs. I agree that the News section of TV is infested with hordes of farang cockroaches, scurrying around trying to outdo each other (in the hating Thailand department). A really pathetic scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Too many people are seeing realistic assessment as hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattaniMan Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 FIRST ........ However it has to be said that Thailand is a haven for those sort of Western men of limited education ..............Incapable of forming normal relationships they flood to Thailand ................. Here they can live out a fantasy that is essentially misogynistic and racist in nature and panders to their over simplistic untutored view of the world. AND THEN ...... If you are saying that many expats don't fit this mold then please give some examples... Never ask those holding views counter to your own to offer examples when you have failed to offer examples yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrona Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 lot of people with plenty of time on their hands will find stuff to complain about....thai's in general hate any kind of criticism whether it's warranted or not, then again don't we all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Too many people are seeing realistic assessment as hatred. No JT, it's quite easy to distinguish a "realistic assessment" from hate speech. Sadly, the latter is but all too common on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Too many people are seeing realistic assessment as hatred. No JT, it's quite easy to distinguish a "realistic assessment" from hate speech. Sadly, the latter is but all too common on TV. Maybe for you. It's quite often a grey area anyway. For example, on this thread I asserted that I don't believe most Thais are as "happy" as they appear superficially to the naive, and I also don't believe that when a stranger Thai smiles at me that it indicates that he sincerely welcomes me or likes me as a human being. I am sure many people would see that as hatred to Thais. Edited November 9, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Too many people are seeing realistic assessment as hatred. No JT, it's quite easy to distinguish a "realistic assessment" from hate speech. Sadly, the latter is but all too common on TV. Maybe for you. It's quite often a grey area anyway. For example, on this thread I asserted that I don't believe most Thais are as "happy" as they appear superficially to the naive, and I also don't believe that when a stranger Thai smiles at me that it indicates that he sincerely welcomes me or likes me as a human being. I am sure many people would see that as hatred to Thais. Leaving the hatred thing aside, I'm perplexed as to how you can assess how "happy" people are. I hope you're not equating wealth to happiness. One of the things that impresses me about Thais is that they can be happy with minimal wealth, with only family and friends being enough. As for the smile thing, I believe pretty much every smile from a sales person (or someone trying to sell you something, e.g. politicians, air hostesses, etc.) can be assumed to be insincere. Beyond that, I don't see Thais smiling at strangers with any more regularity than most people. Unless you're trying to speak to them in a foreign language and they have no idea what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 One might also ask, Why the rose colored glasses? As there is a percentage of posters here that defend all things Thai and appear to despise any comment that is contrary to their pipe dream. And quite a few of them seem to hate all things western as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 One might also ask, Why the rose colored glasses? As there is a percentage of posters here that defend all things Thai and appear to despise any comment that is contrary to their pipe dream. And quite a few of them seem to hate all things western as well. I don't know one poster, NOT ONE, who sees no fault in Thailand. I certainly know that Thailand is not perfect, nor are the Thais. But if defending the Thais against vile racist drivel is considered wearing rose colored glasses, then consider me guilty. You sound like the typical Thai-hater who would love nothing more than to bash the Thais with impunity, regardless of how absurd your claims may be. And if anyone decides not to gleefully jump on your racist bandwagon, you consider them Thai-apologists. Perhaps that's the way you will always see things, so we can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooEng Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) sb - unfortunately you will find in general in thailand that the expats who do not speak or understand any thai or understand very little, are the ones most likely to have a very positive view of the place. if you can understand thai and understand what is being said by the thais around you it tends to change ideas about the thai attitude somewhat. i don't think you will find one westerner in the forum here who understands and speaks thai to a decent level who will disagree with that. I'm sorry GooEng, but I strongly disagree with this sentiment. Strong Thai language skills will definitely enhance your quality of life in Thailand. This includes not only being able to function independently in Thailand, but also not getting ripped off, as well as your chances with the ladies. If you confine yourself to only English-speaking Thai women, for example, you're narrowing yourself to a very small subset of Thai women, and usually not the most attractive or trustworthy. It seems that many farangs who have given up on learning Thai (or just don't have the aptitude to even try) tend to try and convince all other foreigners that it's counter-productive, that it's pointless. Some even try to do it with a straight face. This is nonsense. It's simply a "misery loves company" sort of attitude. It is of immense benefit to learn the local language any where you go on this planet. Thailand is no exception. again berk, i agree with you and appreciate your points and your vibe. developing strong thail language skills does indeed enhance the experience of living here in the ways you mention and others. i can't claim strong skills, but i can speak it pretty well(conversational type pasa-poot), read it to a similar degree and at a stretch attempt writing, and this has made life in thailand a much more enriching and 3-D experience. i despair at the union jack shorts, bacon butty crowd slagging the place off cos the daily mail arrives late and costs an arm and a leg and grousing cos these <deleted>*king birds ain't what they used to be, i am NOT a hater, i like thailand - but i'm digressing and i would like to clarify my initial point if i may. i said that learning to understand thai changes your attitudes towards the thais around you - and by that i don't mean hookers, motorcycle taxis and kerb side pimps, i mean ALL the thais around you and not just what they say about you or other farangs, but what they say to and about each other. there's no getting away from the fact that you will hear insulting remarks unintended for your ears, and the image created by the smiles and wais so beloved of the casual tourist and the mono-lingual expats soon begins to crumble when you hear their conversations amongst themselves about themselves and others. i'd also like while i am typing here that cowslip's comments about oil/shipping workers being under-educated, over paid misogynists who come to thailand to live out their fantasies from a "white male" work environment by is laughably bigotted and inaccurate and only serves to weaken his already threadbare line of argument. must try harder cowslip old boy, you're making a dick of yourself. Edited November 9, 2011 by GooEng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 One might also ask, Why the rose colored glasses? As there is a percentage of posters here that defend all things Thai and appear to despise any comment that is contrary to their pipe dream. And quite a few of them seem to hate all things western as well. I don't know one poster, NOT ONE, who sees no fault in Thailand. I certainly know that Thailand is not perfect, nor are the Thais. But if defending the Thais against vile racist drivel is considered wearing rose colored glasses, then consider me guilty. You sound like the typical Thai-hater who would love nothing more than to bash the Thais with impunity, regardless of how absurd your claims may be. And if anyone decides not to gleefully jump on your racist bandwagon, you consider them Thai-apologists. Perhaps that's the way you will always see things, so we can agree to disagree. Thanks for illustrating my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbeam1 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 One might also ask, Why the rose colored glasses? As there is a percentage of posters here that defend all things Thai and appear to despise any comment that is contrary to their pipe dream. And quite a few of them seem to hate all things western as well. I don't know one poster, NOT ONE, who sees no fault in Thailand. I certainly know that Thailand is not perfect, nor are the Thais. But if defending the Thais against vile racist drivel is considered wearing rose colored glasses, then consider me guilty. You sound like the typical Thai-hater who would love nothing more than to bash the Thais with impunity, regardless of how absurd your claims may be. And if anyone decides not to gleefully jump on your racist bandwagon, you consider them Thai-apologists. Perhaps that's the way you will always see things, so we can agree to disagree. Thanks for illustrating my point 100% spot on. jb1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattaniMan Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If you confine yourself to only English-speaking Thai women, for example, you're narrowing yourself to a very small subset of Thai women, and usually not the most attractive or trustworthy. Extraordinary! Have I got this right ............. 1. English-speaking Thai women are "usually" less "attractive" than Thai women who don't speak English. 2. English-speaking Thai women are "usually" less "trustworthy" than Thai women who don't speak English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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