Face, Guile, And The Commerce Of Living

[steveromagnino]

Unlike the others, I think you write a lot, but have not backed up your comments with enough evidence to convince a reader like myself. You raise some very interesting points though, some I agree with and some not.

>>You can see it in the eyes – the guile. Westerners are guileless. We are unarmed.

With respect - rubbish; plenty of westerners with plenty of guile - look at most immigrants - as cunning as your would find. Please outline which countries you are basing your ascertion on. And don't include NZ or Aussie in that list. Plenty of slick willies in those countries. Good on them - nothing wrong with guile. Another word = negotiation skills.

>>No one smiles at panhandlers,

Please outline which country you live in that welcomes panhandlers with open arms and love.

>>There is no interest in education.

Commonplace to spend significant money sending kids to get educations overseas. Massive push for english. Quality of local education, another issue, children's interest in their education at that level another issue perhaps.

>>There are few gardens or parks or beautiful buildings

True. But harder to introduce parks in a country with high population densities and without the incomes to support them. Only Bangkok arguably suffers from a significant lack of parks.

>> The arts are barely alive in Asia, unless you count copying. No live band writes their own material, painters copy from photographs, and there is nearly no literature produced.

I disagree. Here you are saying throughout Asia. In commercial applications, Thais are well renowned for creativity in advertising, graphic design, clothing design. problem is that in some commercial applications creativity is not enough (and in fashion, Thai designers have too much creativity, and not enough business sense). LIve bands creating their own material....hm.... a ton here - Bakery and the whole indy scene; Futon; Loso; Ford, Saxman, the look tueng scene to name a few. Plenty of young painters here; just need to go to Studio 55 or similar to see them. Certainly a massive amount of creative talent coming out of Vietnam and CHina at the moment. Literature definitely a bit sad. Movie scene adn TV - Oxide Pang; Note Udom and others doing innovative things.

Would argue that groups like the Siam Society and the universities however have failed to take the arts to the masses. Like occurs in most parts of the world incidentally. Definitely less than in developed countries. But that is symptomatic of development; it frees up time for the nicer things in life.

>>Philosophy is not here. Never discussed here. The good, the true, and the beautiful, have no widespread following. There are no recognizable morals of truth and justice – lawers and police openly frame foreigners and the disadvantaged, as if it was obviously proper.

Rodney King, Aborigines in Australia... the world aint fair.

>>>The cultures of Thailand and the Philippines amount to the importation of currently fashionable cell phones. Guile, with nothing underneath the guile – means without an ends. As rich as possible.

Guile for the purpose of getting rich. What is that...nothing? That's the purpose of the guile! And if you think that is all there is to Thai culture...well you've missed a lot. Cannot deny materialism. It is a problem getting bigger.

>>Expats who live here eventually refuse to do any business with Asians. People who date here either give up any of their own values as irrelevant, thus denying the possibility of a shared consensual reality with Asians, or don’t expect much in the way of shared values. Unless the woman is foreign educated or otherwise worldly beyond her culture, she will be myopic beyond all credulity, her only interests relating to boy hunting or family. Her mental skills, developed for those reasons, or not at all. Nothing outside of that exists.

This is ridiculous. Expats who end up doing business with non_Asians usually end up doing so because it is easier (they didn't learn the language) or they don't know enough to negotiate successfully. (You are either a good negotiator, or you are at the mercy of one). Solution? Learn how to get by here, and the real money is in doing business with the locals. Can only think of a few people that get rich here doing business...but not with Asians. Also FYI the whole world is not white; plenty of Asian expats in both countries you name.

Your comments about women suggest you haven't met very many. And the ones you have are certainly far from representative of all the women out there.

>>Status more important than the friendships it could open the door to.

Fair comment. Totally agree. But the status also opens doors that friendship does not. Works both ways. And besides which, I have friends that would fight for me here. in every place I've lived. Hard to find good friends, but they are there.

>>There is no peace here – the business oriented eyes never shine back, wide and interested and naked and wild and present and without agenda.

I'd be surprised to see westerners like Larry Ellison and Gates just say, ok, now I'm wide and interested and naked and wild and present without an agenda so my business empire can get royally shafted by my competitors - 'I guess I am rich enough'. Business = business.

So in short, nice points you raise; I think you are bitter - maybe you should consider moving back to the west for a while; cool down and things may become more clear and less heated with the benefit of time IMHO.

[jamman]

Jamman,

So what's the plan after Phillipenes? Are you sure you can say goodbye to Asian girls, and happily go back to white girls?

Or will you continue to search for the compatible one in Asia?

You could always find an Asian girl that was raised in the west.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm off to Bali, and will most likely date some local. I whine a lot, but overall I've been quite happy these last four years in Asia, happier than I was living in the west.

I was thinking about what you said about relationships based on passion not lasting as long as those based on other mutual compatibilities. I read an essay the other day that mentions three basic "colors" of love, passionate, flirty, and staid, and that people usually have a basic style of love or a mixture of them. The passionate one is based on eros, the flirty one is where you keep some distance and keep more than one lover, and the staid one is where friendship slowly turns into romantic bonds. I guess my style is the erotic one. There is nothing like just being close to a lover for whom there is strong mutual passion. I like that heat, and would not choose a life without it. I'll put up with a lot or give up a lot just in order to get that. More compatability is still the dream, but you never know when why or how love will bonk you on the head. But physical passion, by itself, is a ###### fine thing.

[jamman]

>Unlike the others, I think you write a lot, but have not backed up your comments with enough evidence to convince a reader like myself.

I'm not sure what kind of evidence I could give. I have lots of anecdotes I could share, but would that count as the kind of evidence you'd need?

> ... plenty of westerners with plenty of guile - look at most immigrants - as cunning as your would find. Please outline which countries you are basing your ascertion on. And don't include NZ or Aussie in that list. Plenty of slick willies in those countries. Good on them - nothing wrong with guile. Another word = negotiation skills.

People in Asia are more concerned with putting up a front, and are forced to lie more often than westerners are to build and protect the facade. It is not the same the world over, Asians are certainly more guileful. In the U.S. and Canada people are far more emotionally open publicly than in Europe, and in Asia people are far less emotionally open than in all of the west. Certainly you can see guile everywhere. That's obvious. You see more of it in Asia.

>>Please outline which country you live in that welcomes panhandlers with open arms and love.

In Canada and the U.S. the panhandlers will often be friendly to you, and it isn't at all uncommon for them to have conversations with the passersbuy. You can share a chuckle. They aren't as professionally pathetic, and they occasionally receive eye contact.

>>Commonplace to spend significant money sending kids to get educations overseas. Massive push for english. Quality of local education, another issue, children's interest in their education at that level another issue perhaps.

What I trying to convey was that I have not seen any general feeling that there is any value in knowledge for it's own sake. People don't read for pleasure.

>> I disagree. Here you are saying throughout Asia. In commercial applications, Thais are well renowned for creativity in advertising, graphic design, clothing design. problem is that in some commercial applications creativity is not enough (and in fashion, Thai designers have too much creativity, and not enough business sense). LIve bands creating their own material....hm.... a ton here - Bakery and the whole indy scene; Futon; Loso; Ford, Saxman, the look tueng scene to name a few. Plenty of young painters here; just need to go to Studio 55 or similar to see them. Certainly a massive amount of creative talent coming out of Vietnam and CHina at the moment. Literature definitely a bit sad. Movie scene adn TV - Oxide Pang; Note Udom and others doing innovative things.

Ya, there is some unique and creative stuff. I wasn't aware of any of the music stuff you mentioned. Is that part of the popular culture? Most of what I hear in clubs is top40 stuff. Arts and crafts are thriving in Bali, and I see a strong aesthetic sense almost everywhere there. Generally though in Thailand and the Philippines I don't see a lot of appreciation for beautiful things and places. A lot of buildings are way uglier than they need to be, and there is less landscaping than you would see in Singapore or Bali or a western country. I don't think it's because of financial reasons, I think it must be cultural. It's not accross the board or everywhere, but generally I see less attention paid to beauty. And in a culture where sticking out is viewed negatively, being creative isn't a big social positive, is it? Unless you create what is already popular, and that's emulation. But the fact of very little literature being either read or produced says a lot about the value placed on personal education for the sake of it. Sending kids to a western college could be for financial and status reasons. How people view the value and creation of knowledge for it's own sake is a big issue. I see the value of it in Asia being far lower than it is in the west. People dont' read. And it isn't caused by a recently rural society, or a lack of money, it is a cultural value. My father grew up on a rural farm, and his whole community was cultured. He got a scholarship and his whole family became educated and prosperous. Many western farmers and workers read.

>Rodney King, Aborigines in Australia... the world aint fair.

What are you implying, that the corruption is equal in the west? Corruption is everywhere, and there is much, much more of it in some countries than others. Only in Asia will your own lawyer tell your translator that he is deliberately screwing you, assuming that since the translator is Thai she will be on his side. Would it happen in the west that the police will openly ask your girlfriend if they should frame you so that she can get a ton of money? That kind of tribal racism is not nearly as rampant as it is in Asia. Yes, it is everywhere, but not to the same degree.

> Guile for the purpose of getting rich. What is that...nothing? That's the purpose of the guile! And if you think that is all there is to Thai culture...well you've missed a lot. Cannot deny materialism. It is a problem getting bigger.

Why does someone want to be rich? Being rich for the sake of being rich is nothing, yes. Money is for something. If money is for face and status, the purpose of it is heartless. I personally don't see the value in the effort for it, if the purpose of it is intrinsically empty. I could be richer in a beachside love hovel than a penthouse apartment. Nothing wrong with money, but if love or compassion isn't somewhere at the bottom of the purpose for it, I can't see the value. Guile is usually just a habit, anyway. A habit of seeking any sort of personal gain, even at the cost of truth or the harm to others. Guile is a value system.

>> Expats who end up doing business with non_Asians usually end up doing so because it is easier (they didn't learn the language) or they don't know enough to negotiate successfully. (You are either a good negotiator, or you are at the mercy of one). Solution? Learn how to get by here, and the real money is in doing business with the locals. Can only think of a few people that get rich here doing business...but not with Asians. Also FYI the whole world is not white; plenty of Asian expats in both countries you name.

I have met several people who have, after a number of years and many bad dealings, foresworn doing business with the locals. You are right, that not everyone does so. That several have still is a meaningful fact. It would never happen in the west, because in the west there is a different value system and legal system, and a greater degree of trust is warrented. Again, I'm not saying business dealings in the west are trustworthy, just that they are generally more trustworthy.

I'm not ready to go back to the west yet. It will be Bali for a while, then I may emigrate to NZ. There are still a lot of pluses for me, on the whole, in Asia.

[jbowman1993]

How about we all quit trying to impress each other with our intellectual one-liners, and go have a beer. Its Friday, for pete's sake.

Peace

[Noel]

People with little sense of self tend to be whatever you want them to be, while they are with you, and I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter.  It was unbelievably, incredibly, intensely, fantascially good at times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that, please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get an answer Morden?

I may have missed it as I skipped much of the pseudo-intellectual screed above for fear of nodding off...

[Morden]

People with little sense of self tend to be whatever you want them to be, while they are with you, and I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter.  It was unbelievably, incredibly, intensely, fantascially good at times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that, please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get an answer Morden?

I may have missed it as I skipped much of the pseudo-intellectual screed above for fear of nodding off...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Noel, I didn't. It's quite an important question too, I think.

Jamman, please post a reply to my question. Ta.

[jamman]

People with little sense of self tend to be whatever you want them to be, while they are with you, and I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter.  It was unbelievably, incredibly, intensely, fantascially good at times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that, please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get an answer Morden?

I may have missed it as I skipped much of the pseudo-intellectual screed above for fear of nodding off...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Noel, I didn't. It's quite an important question too, I think.

Jamman, please post a reply to my question. Ta.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going against sound advice and my own inner twinges. I'm posting drunk.

I didn't reply as I thought you were trolling for porn. Plus my reply is most likely to be pornorgraphic to that question.

But first, more ranting.

Pseudo is a bullshit word. Don't say it.

Ok.

Well, Jenny and I had passion that burns cells into beingness. My gaze to her was fusion. We had sex for at minimum 4 hours a day for the first 4 months, and each tenth of a second exploded each previous tenth of a second. We found devotion, we found communion, but mostly, we found raw power.

It was a marvel.

No, really, I can't stress the emphaticness of the passion. It was super human. It wasn't normal. It was seriously huge. People don't do that. They dont' scream so loud or have quite as much public sex, or have quite as much or loud or... well, we did what a lot of people do. We did it good. Or, more realisticaly, it did us, with power we were grateful for and unknowing of.

There is no way to parcel up 10,000 volts into sentences. If you have been struch by lightening, then there. If not, there is no evidence.

Then there was the BPD. I spent 14 or more hours researching it. The googlification is worth the time, especially reading the forum from the boyfriends of the BPs. If you date a moody and occasionally vindictive mate, read about BPD. It's not appropriate or normal to have your mate be, even occasionally, your other. Your reflective nemesis.

Well, that's it.

[OlRedEyes]

In simpler terms... a mind-###### of epic proportions?

[Morden]

Jamman,

It was this only bit that concerned me, and I quote your words exactly:

'I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter'

I have no interest in porn and, if I did, I wouldn't be trying to extract it from a thread on this Forum! It's simply that I've been trying to follow what you're saying to us and the phrase quoted above stood out like a sore thumb. What is that you were trying to impart when you wrote that?

[jamman]

Jamman,

It was this only bit that concerned me, and I quote your words exactly:

'I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter'

I have no interest in porn and, if I did, I wouldn't be trying to extract it from a thread on this Forum! It's simply that I've been trying to follow what you're saying to us and the phrase quoted above stood out like a sore thumb. What is that you were trying to impart when you wrote that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a very personal kink.

[Morden]

Jamman,

It was this only bit that concerned me, and I quote your words exactly:

'I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter'

I have no interest in porn and, if I did, I wouldn't be trying to extract it from a thread on this Forum! It's simply that I've been trying to follow what you're saying to us and the phrase quoted above stood out like a sore thumb. What is that you were trying to impart when you wrote that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a very personal kink.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, thanks for your candid reply.

Perhaps you have had just what you wanted from Asia and are now unhappy that you don't feel fulfilled. Don't blame Asia, though. It gave you what you demanded and, perhaps you are now ready to move on and look for more in your life. My experience, of Thailand at least, is that there is much more to it that you have found.

[OlRedEyes]

Jamman,

It was this only bit that concerned me, and I quote your words exactly:

'I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter'

I have no interest in porn and, if I did, I wouldn't be trying to extract it from a thread on this Forum! It's simply that I've been trying to follow what you're saying to us and the phrase quoted above stood out like a sore thumb. What is that you were trying to impart when you wrote that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a very personal kink.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, thanks for your candid reply.

Perhaps you have had just what you wanted from Asia and are now unhappy that you don't feel fulfilled. Don't blame Asia, though. It gave you what you demanded and, perhaps you are now ready to move on and look for more in your life. My experience, of Thailand at least, is that there is much more to it that you have found.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More kink? Where, where.... pant,pant....

[Noel]

People with little sense of self tend to be whatever you want them to be, while they are with you, and I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter.  It was unbelievably, incredibly, intensely, fantascially good at times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that, please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get an answer Morden?

I may have missed it as I skipped much of the pseudo-intellectual screed above for fear of nodding off...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Noel, I didn't. It's quite an important question too, I think.

Jamman, please post a reply to my question. Ta.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going against sound advice and my own inner twinges. I'm posting drunk.

I didn't reply as I thought you were trolling for porn. Plus my reply is most likely to be pornorgraphic to that question.

But first, more ranting.

Pseudo is a bullshit word. Don't say it.

Ok.

Well, Jenny and I had passion that burns cells into beingness. My gaze to her was fusion. We had sex for at minimum 4 hours a day for the first 4 months, and each tenth of a second exploded each previous tenth of a second. We found devotion, we found communion, but mostly, we found raw power.

It was a marvel.

No, really, I can't stress the emphaticness of the passion. It was super human. It wasn't normal. It was seriously huge. People don't do that. They dont' scream so loud or have quite as much public sex, or have quite as much or loud or... well, we did what a lot of people do. We did it good. Or, more realisticaly, it did us, with power we were grateful for and unknowing of.

There is no way to parcel up 10,000 volts into sentences. If you have been struch by lightening, then there. If not, there is no evidence.

Then there was the BPD. I spent 14 or more hours researching it. The googlification is worth the time, especially reading the forum from the boyfriends of the BPs. If you date a moody and occasionally vindictive mate, read about BPD. It's not appropriate or normal to have your mate be, even occasionally, your other. Your reflective nemesis.

Well, that's it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Pseudo' is a perfectly valid word jamman, and I will use it whenever I think it appropriate as I did above.

Best of luck in getting over your BPD problem.

[jamman]

Jamman,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps you have had just what you wanted from Asia and are now unhappy that you don't feel fulfilled. Don't blame Asia, though. It gave you what you demanded and, perhaps you are now ready to move on and look for more in your life. My experience, of Thailand at least, is that there is much more to it that you have found.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I see, all my experiences are entirely subjective and brought upon myself due to my attitudes and desires. Any generalitites I notice are therefore only valid from my personal perspective.

How very sensitive and enlightened of you, and how demeaning. Do you paint everyone with the same brush, invalidating everyone's experience as completely subjective? There is a real world out there that people can, with some general acuracy, reflect and share. 100 people reading the same poem may have slightly different interpretations, but there is inter-subjective reality, and there can be some meaningful concensus on the poems meanings. Pure subjectivity is a load, except for the psychotic. I don't completely create my reality. I'm not so egotistical to think myself that omnipotent.

If you have found Thai friends or mates that you trust and if face has not been a barrier to intimacy, then good on you. I really wonder where you met such folks. My experiences and generalizations are shared by many, as I have read and been told.

And as for the daughter thing, that dynamic has been shared between me and lovers that I greatly respect, one of whom I would gladly marry, if I could.

I agree that people greatly influence the types of people they befriend, but there is also a real world out there that can be commented on. It is an intersubject reality, not a subjective one. People don't create their own realities, they interact with one.

[jamman]

People with little sense of self tend to be whatever you want them to be, while they are with you, and I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter.  It was unbelievably, incredibly, intensely, fantascially good at times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that, please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get an answer Morden?

I may have missed it as I skipped much of the pseudo-intellectual screed above for fear of nodding off...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, Noel, I didn't. It's quite an important question too, I think.

Jamman, please post a reply to my question. Ta.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going against sound advice and my own inner twinges. I'm posting drunk.

I didn't reply as I thought you were trolling for porn. Plus my reply is most likely to be pornorgraphic to that question.

But first, more ranting.

Pseudo is a bullshit word. Don't say it.

Ok.

Well, Jenny and I had passion that burns cells into beingness. My gaze to her was fusion. We had sex for at minimum 4 hours a day for the first 4 months, and each tenth of a second exploded each previous tenth of a second. We found devotion, we found communion, but mostly, we found raw power.

It was a marvel.

No, really, I can't stress the emphaticness of the passion. It was super human. It wasn't normal. It was seriously huge. People don't do that. They dont' scream so loud or have quite as much public sex, or have quite as much or loud or... well, we did what a lot of people do. We did it good. Or, more realisticaly, it did us, with power we were grateful for and unknowing of.

There is no way to parcel up 10,000 volts into sentences. If you have been struch by lightening, then there. If not, there is no evidence.

Then there was the BPD. I spent 14 or more hours researching it. The googlification is worth the time, especially reading the forum from the boyfriends of the BPs. If you date a moody and occasionally vindictive mate, read about BPD. It's not appropriate or normal to have your mate be, even occasionally, your other. Your reflective nemesis.

Well, that's it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Pseudo' is a perfectly valid word jamman, and I will use it whenever I think it appropriate as I did above.

Best of luck in getting over your BPD problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whenever I've heard anyone use the term pseudo-intellectual, I've never really understood what it was supposed to mean. It always seems spoken by someone who does not come across as an "intellectual", whatever that might be. I also wonder if the person who speaks it considers intellectual and pseudo-intellectual basically similar, as if big words or complicated ideas just basically bug the guy.

If someone is not a great enough thinker or educated enough to be a

"real" intellectual, so what? Why the smear? Personally, I do my best to explain my thoughts. That's all I can do.

Edited December 3, 2005 by jamman

[Morden]

Oh, I see, all my experiences are entirely subjective and brought upon myself due to my attitudes and desires.  Any generalitites I notice are therefore only valid from my personal perspective.

How very sensitive and enlightened of you, and how demeaning.  Do you paint everyone with the same brush, invalidating everyone's experience as completely subjective?  There is a real world out there that people can, with some general acuracy, reflect and share.  100 people reading the same poem may have slightly different interpretations, but there is inter-subjective reality, and there can be some meaningful concensus on the poems meanings.  Pure subjectivity is a load, except for the psychotic.  I don't completely create my reality.  I'm not so egotistical to think myself that omnipotent. 

If you have found Thai friends or mates that you trust and if face has not been a barrier to intimacy, then good on you.  I really wonder where you met such folks.  My experiences and generalizations are shared by many, as I have read and been told.

And as for the daughter thing, that dynamic has been shared between me and lovers that I greatly respect, one of whom I would gladly marry, if I could. 

I agree that people greatly influence the types of people they befriend, but there is also a real world out there that can be commented on.  It is an intersubject reality, not a subjective one.  People don't create their own realities, they interact with one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder why you are so angry.

Actually, you have raised a very good point. All of our experiences are subjective, aren't they? Every memory that each of us has is coloured by our own perception. Our opinion of everyone that we meet and every experience that we have is influenced by past experiences. If life were made up of a set of indisputable and clear facts, none of us would every have a different point of view from anyone else.

However, that's not quite what I said to you. I said that you seem to have got from Asia just what you wanted but you are not fulfilled by it. My assumption might well be adrift from the truth but I can only express a view based on what you have written in this thread. Perhaps you don't want my opinion. That's fine by me but I thought that you started this thread seeking feedback. It's a bit unfair of you to start flaming those of us who have responded to you.

I hope that things improve for you soon. I'm truly sorry that you feel so bad.

[Eurasian]

Hi, Im half Italian and half Thai and I agreed with Jamman on some points he made but I do not agree about generalizing all asians. As a Eurasian, I can see the differences between Thai's culture and The Western's culture. Im very concerned about the incompatibility between Thai and European Cultures ==Inappropriate comments deleted by moderator==Despite i am half Thai, I also rejected most of the Thai's culture rules and prefer to be much more Europeanize/Westernize and supporting THE HIP HOP CULTURE/Rap Culture of USA. I am dissapointed about the old primitive cultures of Thailand especially when it interferes with my affairs and my daily westernized-life style. Please don't get me wrong... I've been living in Thailand for 11 YEARS. 11 YEARS!!! and i know many negativities about it. These are some of the Thai Culture Rules that i do not like much and i would like to point out:

1. People see me as not being half Thai and they called my "farang" or just because i am mixed and i have high status when im in Bangkok. WHY? Is it because the Thais look down on themselves? They treated me as if i am a God or something but they treated their own people not as good as me. It appreciates me but it also disturbs me because otherwise it means that they cared to much about "race" or skin color which could be marked as racism. Tell me if im wrong. THEY ALWAYS LOOK AT ME AND MEMORIZED MY FACE WHEREVER I GO IN PUBLIC PLACES IN THAILAND. IM AMAZED! AS IF I AM A FAMOUS MOVIE ACTOR!!! I HAD NO PRIVACY! Please noted: ("farang" comes from the word "franks", the french people of the old Frankish Empire, the first white people in Thailand but over the generations the word pronounciation by Thais was changed due to Thai's poor English pronounciation which is now "farang" which means "ALL WHITE PEOPLE".

this is silly..

2. I agreed with Jammal when it comes to talking about the "Saving of One's Face". It was ridiculous. I recommend tourists not to ask many simple questions such as "where is that store?" to most Thais when staying in Thailand because i found out that most of them (99.9%) (not all) (almost all!) used to lie to me even if they do not know the real answer to my question just to save their face. It is true that Thais are exagerated by keeping their form/face in a good shape but it does not made them an open-minded people. The problem is, they have a habit in lieing to other people and it is becoming like a drug in which everyones start saying something that is not true.

3. Less understanding about Western Hip Hop Culture. This is due to incompatibility between Thai's Culture and American's Hip Hop Culture. Most Thai's culture rules are still ancient primitive and do not accept the modern rap or hip hop mentality such as making graffitis on the wall, dressing like a gangster, smoking alot, using "kooooool" words, using bad words in public places, kissing in public places, or accepting the truth. a==Inappropriate comments deleted==Surprisingly, i almost don't see any Graffitis in Thailand and i was the one who did kool Graffitis and they arrested me and asked strange questions and they did not wanted to understand about Hip Hop Culture's Graffitis. In Italy, you will always find thousands of Graffitis but in Thailand the Thais are down with Graffitis. The Thai Rap musics sucks, and it is very RARE to see a Thai Teenager listening to a Rap music. Hip Hop Culture does support many negativities because it is a sub-culture borned in New York, Chicago around 1970s. It looks like most Thais do not know what "KOOL" means or it is because they got their KOOLNESS STYLE but it sucks because it is not as kool as American style.

4. It is an animistic society (animistic in western means a mark of primitiveness).

Thais cared too much about GHOSTS OR SPIRITS OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST. i personally believe in spirits but i do not waist too much time on it. i don't even waist too much time with religion.

5. THE AGE THING. In Thailand, the age is a very important thing. i hate when i had to treat those who are older than me in a very respectful manner whether they are stupid or not. According to Thai Culture, The elderly/younger ones should always treat adults or older ones good just because of their age. In United States, i had many older friends and we treated each other equal or the same. My Mexican friend was 10 YEARS OLDER THAN ME! The problem with Thai's AGE RULES is that it has become like a barrier (age barrier) between human beings. This is why i don't see many relationship (whether it is a love relationship or friendship) between Thais of a very different age.

6. Many Thai girls who goes with White men were prostitutors and seeing LOVE AS A BUSINESS. Infact, it is said that pretty girls from Northeastern Thailand (Originally Laotians) do not know what love means but they tend to be prostitutors or seeing love as business or even marrying with foreigners for money (just for a while) or just to go to Western developed countries. (Many Thais said this) Maybe it has to do with Poverty or they still got a Third-World-Mentality. IM I WRONG?

7. Discrimination against people of color is a big problem in Thailand. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with race but just the darker skin color. Thai with darker skin was normally considered a prostitutor or a farmer or a low class person because many Thais believe that people of color are poor and had to stay under the sun light for a long time due to their poverty so these people, whether they are Thais or not were discriminated by other light-skin Thais. This is ridiculous! I cannot stay in an atmosphere of hatred and discrimination as well as jealousness. Thai society is also a society of jealous people so beware of these jealous people. It clearly shows that there is some kind of a Caste System in Thailand like in India.

This is also why i got into a fight (with words) with my Thai Uncle who is very Thai and did not understand about Westernization so you can say there is some kind of a Culture Clash going on here between those who are westernized and those who are still very Thai.

Anyway, these are just some of the Thai Culture's rules i posted from 1-7.

I don't know if you guys especially Jammal is having one of these problems with Thai Culture Rules that i posted. I appologize to other Thais or anyone in this forum if they are offended by my comments but lets speak the truth ok? These are true or most of them are true and they were based on my experience in Thailand. Remember i am half Thai and i lived there for 11 years so i know many things about it. However, these are the things i like about Thailand: What i like is the Thai Bhuddist Religion even though i am not crazy with religions but i am a bhuddist in my own style. I like Thai Foods. I like to enjoy in Bangkok, I like to spend summer vacation in Thailand and things are very cheap over there. I also like the Sky Scrapers of Tailand and i think Thais are very friendly. I feel sorry for Jammal but once again, i do not agree with generalizing all Asians because it is philosophically false and incorrect. We could use the word MOST ASIANS but not ALL ASIANS. I am half Thai but it does not mean i am like other Thai people even if most of them are ignorant. Once again, sorry if i had offended someone with my comments but as long as they are true and does not support generalization then it it should be OK!!!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT?

[jamman]

Oh, I see, all my experiences are entirely subjective and brought upon myself due to my attitudes and desires.  Any generalitites I notice are therefore only valid from my personal perspective.

How very sensitive and enlightened of you, and how demeaning.  Do you paint everyone with the same brush, invalidating everyone's experience as completely subjective?  There is a real world out there that people can, with some general acuracy, reflect and share.  100 people reading the same poem may have slightly different interpretations, but there is inter-subjective reality, and there can be some meaningful concensus on the poems meanings.  Pure subjectivity is a load, except for the psychotic.  I don't completely create my reality.  I'm not so egotistical to think myself that omnipotent. 

If you have found Thai friends or mates that you trust and if face has not been a barrier to intimacy, then good on you.  I really wonder where you met such folks.  My experiences and generalizations are shared by many, as I have read and been told.

And as for the daughter thing, that dynamic has been shared between me and lovers that I greatly respect, one of whom I would gladly marry, if I could. 

I agree that people greatly influence the types of people they befriend, but there is also a real world out there that can be commented on.  It is an intersubject reality, not a subjective one.  People don't create their own realities, they interact with one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder why you are so angry.

Actually, you have raised a very good point. All of our experiences are subjective, aren't they? Every memory that each of us has is coloured by our own perception. Our opinion of everyone that we meet and every experience that we have is influenced by past experiences. If life were made up of a set of indisputable and clear facts, none of us would every have a different point of view from anyone else.

However, that's not quite what I said to you. I said that you seem to have got from Asia just what you wanted but you are not fulfilled by it. My assumption might well be adrift from the truth but I can only express a view based on what you have written in this thread. Perhaps you don't want my opinion. That's fine by me but I thought that you started this thread seeking feedback. It's a bit unfair of you to start flaming those of us who have responded to you.

I hope that things improve for you soon. I'm truly sorry that you feel so bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ya, our experiences are partly subjective. Not wholly. The reason I was miffed was that it seemed you were trying to invalidate my arguments by saying they where wholly subjective.

I'm not feeling badly. Life is good. Had a great night at the disco last night. I danced wild and hot with my little girl, and some of the other little girls were hitting on me. Drank a boatload of beer, without being silly.

Did I get out of Asia what I was looking for? Yes, and no. I did experiment with non monogamy, and I was able to date young women - many of them. I wanted that. I did look for more than I was able to find though.

[jamman]

Jamman,

Sorry about you feeling depressed.  Your posts are good reads although I might not understand the whole of them(my english standard).  They show honesty and are heartfelt.  I think I know what you are pointing at.  Although I agree with what you say, I do think perhaps it's due to your bad luck.  I have met some nice people in my life here in Asia.  It could also be due to your high expectation/demand of moral standards.?  It could also be your reaction towards people?  If you are capable, you can bring the good side out of a person.

Hope you can cheer up.

What about the west(where you come from)?  Are you satisfied with it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't mean to say that I'm depressed, I'm not.

I've met some nice people in Asia too. One girlfriend I had was very loving and kind to me. For some reason we didn't have a lot of sexual chemistry, so we let our relationship disolve, but we did have a lot of love and respect.

Ya, sometimes the best in a person is brought out, but there are still some general cultural differences that are worth noting, I think.

I like the U.S. and Canada, but am also critical of many things in those places. Different things. Generally I've been happier in Asia.

[OldAsiaHand]

Eurasian,

A very interesting and well-written post containing much to think about. Thanks. If we had more contributions of this caliber, the board might even be able to rise about the kind of sophomoric crap that seems to drown out most every effort anyone makes to develop a series discussion --- this thread being a prime example.

[solo siam]

Hi, Im half Italian and half Thai and I agreed with Jamman on some points he made but I do not agree about generalizing all asians. As a Eurasian, I can see the differences between Thai's culture and The Western's culture. Im very concerned about the incompatibility between Thai and European Cultures because as we all know, ==inappropriate comments deleted==

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Err, Thailand is a democracy, under a monarchy - Much the same as the UK. The Queen still has to appoint the prime minister in the UK!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well she is bound to accept the advice of Her government.

[bannork]

Eurasian,

A very interesting and well-written post containing much to think about. Thanks. If we had more contributions of this caliber, the board might even be able to rise about the kind of sophomoric crap that seems to drown out most every effort anyone makes to develop a series discussion --- this thread being a prime example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OldAsiaHand- you were extracting the urine, surely, right?

Point no 3 cracks me up, only a true troll could write such out to lunch stuff.

[meemiathai]

Hello Eurasion,

Do you speak Thai fluently? Do you think you understand the mentality of most Thai people? And also what Thais are you refering to? Hi-sos, middle class, Bangkok Thais or Isaan Thais?

I am eurasion too.(half scotish half chinese)

Here are some of my response:

1. People see me as not being half Thai and they called my "farang" or just because i am mixed and i have high status when im in Bangkok. WHY? Is it because the Thais look down on themselves? They treated me as if i am a God or something but they treated their own people not as good as me. It appreciates me but it also disturbs me because otherwise it means that they cared to much about "race" or skin color which could be marked as racism. Tell me if im wrong. THEY ALWAYS LOOK AT ME AND MEMORIZED MY FACE WHEREVER I GO IN PUBLIC PLACES IN THAILAND. IM AMAZED! AS IF I AM A FAMOUS MOVIE ACTOR!!! I HAD NO PRIVACY!

That is because they(Thais) have seen a lot of good things done by farangs. They have seen the capability of farangs doing the impossibles from the media. And believe farangs are a nice bunch of people. And most of all they think of you as their guests. Doesn't that feel good?

2. I agreed with Jammal when it comes to talking about the "Saving of One's Face". It was ridiculous. I recommend tourists not to ask many simple questions such as "where is that store?" to most Thais when staying in Thailand because i found out that most of them (99.9%) (not all) (almost all!) used to lie to me even if they do not know the real answer to my question just to save their face. It is true that Thais are exagerated by keeping their form/face in a good shape but it does not made them an open-minded people. The problem is, they have a habit in lieing to other people and it is becoming like a drug in which everyones start saying something that is not true.

This has not been my experience. Though, I could understand if there is a communication gap between you and them.

3. Less understanding about Western Hip Hop Culture. This is due to incompatibility between Thai's Culture and American's Hip Hop Culture. Most Thai's culture rules are still ancient primitive and do not accept the modern rap or hip hop mentality such as making graffitis on the wall, dressing like a gangster, smoking alot, using "kooooool" words, using bad words in public places, kissing in public places, or accepting the truth. a==Inappropriate comments deleted==Surprisingly, i almost don't see any Graffitis in Thailand and i was the one who did kool Graffitis and they arrested me and asked strange questions and they did not wanted to understand about Hip Hop Culture's Graffitis. In Italy, you will always find thousands of Graffitis but in Thailand the Thais are down with Graffitis. The Thai Rap musics sucks, and it is very RARE to see a Thai Teenager listening to a Rap music. Hip Hop Culture does support many negativities because it is a sub-culture borned in New York, Chicago around 1970s. It looks like most Thais do not know what "KOOL" means or it is because they got their KOOLNESS STYLE but it sucks because it is not as kool as American style.

Are you being serious? graffitis all over the place? What if I want to walk naked in the streets? Hip hop culture? What the hel_l is that?

4. It is an animistic society (animistic in western means a mark of primitiveness).Thais cared too much about GHOSTS OR SPIRITS OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST. i personally believe in spirits but i do not waist too much time on it. i don't even waist too much time with religion.

The fact that you personally believe in spirits is ridiculous enough to me. But I couldn't care less. I believe that everyone should be entitled to freedom of beliefs provided they do not affect my way of living.

5. THE AGE THING. In Thailand, the age is a very important thing. i hate when i had to treat those who are older than me in a very respectful manner whether they are stupid or not. According to Thai Culture, The elderly/younger ones should always treat adults or older ones good just because of their age. In United States, i had many older friends and we treated each other equal or the same. My Mexican friend was 10 YEARS OLDER THAN ME! The problem with Thai's AGE RULES is that it has become like a barrier (age barrier) between human beings. This is why i don't see many relationship (whether it is a love relationship or friendship) between Thais of a very different age.

Isn't it a good thing to respect people who are older? Anyway I know what you mean. It's not a good thing if one is strictly not allowed to disagree with a person who is older.

6. Many Thai girls who goes with White men were prostitutors and seeing LOVE AS A BUSINESS. Infact, it is said that pretty girls from Northeastern Thailand (Originally Laotians) do not know what love means but they tend to be prostitutors or seeing love as business or even marrying with foreigners for money (just for a while) or just to go to Western developed countries. (Many Thais said this) Maybe it has to do with Poverty or they still got a Third-World-Mentality. IM I WRONG?

Is it really that hard to understand? True Love, to many people in the world, is a luxury. Not everyone can afford. Think about the list of necessities in surviving and try to see where the word "love" is ranked. Moreover, do you think it is easy for a woman to find a man that she really can rely on?

They are just looking for sense of security.

7. Discrimination against people of color is a big problem in Thailand. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with race but just the darker skin color. Thai with darker skin was normally considered a prostitutor or a farmer or a low class person because many Thais believe that people of color are poor and had to stay under the sun light for a long time due to their poverty so these people, whether they are Thais or not were discriminated by other light-skin Thais. This is ridiculous! I cannot stay in an atmosphere of hatred and discrimination as well as jealousness. Thai society is also a society of jealous people so beware of these jealous people. It clearly shows that there is some kind of a Caste System in Thailand like in India.

Strange, I thought you said you were from Italy. You should know much more than I do regarding racism, I guess. I encountered a few racist acts in just a few hours' stay in Rome 10 years ago. Not to mention the football matches in some of the places where black people aren't welcomed. Edited December 4, 2005 by meemiathai

[Guest endure]

Hi, Im half Italian and half Thai and I agreed with Jamman on some points he made but I do not agree about generalizing all asians. As a Eurasian, I can see the differences between Thai's culture and The Western's culture. Im very concerned about the incompatibility between Thai and European Cultures because as we all know, ==inappropriate comments deleted==

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Err, Thailand is a democracy, under a monarchy - Much the same as the UK. The Queen still has to appoint the prime minister in the UK!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The leader of the party in power is chosen by his/her own party, not by the Queen.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

They submit the nominee's name to Her Majesty who commission that person and the other members of Cabinet.

[Eurasian]

This is one of the world's most INCOMPETENT FORUM BECAUSE MOST OF MY POSTS ABOUT THE WORLD'S GOVERNMENT AND ABOUT THAILAND WAS GONE!!! I WILL SUE THIS THAILAND FORUM AND I WILL LET EVERYONE BOYCOTT THIS INCOMPETENT FORUM. WE JUST CANNOT HAVE ANY KINDS OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT GOVERNMENT OF THAILAND AND THE HISTORY OF MONARCHY. I AM VERY DISSAPOINTED DUE TO THE VIOLATION OF MY FREE SPEECH ON THIS FORUM. MY COMMENTS AND SOME OF MY POSTS ARE DELETED!!! WHY?!!! WAS THE FORUM ADMINISTRATOR GONE CRAZY??? SORRY, BUT IN THE NAME OF GOD, I CAN USE MY MOUTH AND I CAN EXPRESS MYSELF. THERE WAS NO INAPPROPRIATNESS OF MY COMMENTS. I DID NOT USE ANY BAD WORDS.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I COME TO A CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS AN INCOMPETENT FORUM IN WHICH WE CAN NOT EVEN MAKE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF WORLD'S GOVERNMENT SYSTEM AND THAT MY REPLIES ARE DELETED!!!

BLACKLIST FORUMS: WHITE POWER FORUM, THAILAND FORUM, CHINESE FORUM, NEO-NAZI FORUM, ARYAN NATION FORUM

[Eurasian]

Hi, Im half Italian and half Thai and I agreed with Jamman on some points he made but I do not agree about generalizing all asians. As a Eurasian, I can see the differences between Thai's culture and The Western's culture. Im very concerned about the incompatibility between Thai and European Cultures because as we all know, ==inappropriate comments deleted==

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Err, Thailand is a democracy, under a monarchy - Much the same as the UK. The Queen still has to appoint the prime minister in the UK!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The leader of the party in power is chosen by his/her own party, not by the Queen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i say you are ignorant and go back to your pre-school and learn about TOTALITARISNISM AND AUTHORITARIANISM THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT DEMOCRACY REALLY MEANS.

[Eurasian]

Hello Eurasion,

Do you speak Thai fluently? Do you think you understand the mentality of most Thai people? And also what Thais are you refering to? Hi-sos, middle class, Bangkok Thais or Isaan Thais?

I am eurasion too.(half scotish half chinese)

Here are some of my response:

1. People see me as not being half Thai and they called my "farang" or just because i am mixed and i have high status when im in Bangkok. WHY? Is it because the Thais look down on themselves? They treated me as if i am a God or something but they treated their own people not as good as me. It appreciates me but it also disturbs me because otherwise it means that they cared to much about "race" or skin color which could be marked as racism. Tell me if im wrong. THEY ALWAYS LOOK AT ME AND MEMORIZED MY FACE WHEREVER I GO IN PUBLIC PLACES IN THAILAND. IM AMAZED! AS IF I AM A FAMOUS MOVIE ACTOR!!! I HAD NO PRIVACY!

That is because they(Thais) have seen a lot of good things done by farangs. They have seen the capability of farangs doing the impossibles from the media. And believe farangs are a nice bunch of people. And most of all they think of you as their guests. Doesn't that feel good?

2. I agreed with Jammal when it comes to talking about the "Saving of One's Face". It was ridiculous. I recommend tourists not to ask many simple questions such as "where is that store?" to most Thais when staying in Thailand because i found out that most of them (99.9%) (not all) (almost all!) used to lie to me even if they do not know the real answer to my question just to save their face. It is true that Thais are exagerated by keeping their form/face in a good shape but it does not made them an open-minded people. The problem is, they have a habit in lieing to other people and it is becoming like a drug in which everyones start saying something that is not true.

This has not been my experience. Though, I could understand if there is a communication gap between you and them.

3. Less understanding about Western Hip Hop Culture. This is due to incompatibility between Thai's Culture and American's Hip Hop Culture. Most Thai's culture rules are still ancient primitive and do not accept the modern rap or hip hop mentality such as making graffitis on the wall, dressing like a gangster, smoking alot, using "kooooool" words, using bad words in public places, kissing in public places, or accepting the truth. a==Inappropriate comments deleted==Surprisingly, i almost don't see any Graffitis in Thailand and i was the one who did kool Graffitis and they arrested me and asked strange questions and they did not wanted to understand about Hip Hop Culture's Graffitis. In Italy, you will always find thousands of Graffitis but in Thailand the Thais are down with Graffitis. The Thai Rap musics sucks, and it is very RARE to see a Thai Teenager listening to a Rap music. Hip Hop Culture does support many negativities because it is a sub-culture borned in New York, Chicago around 1970s. It looks like most Thais do not know what "KOOL" means or it is because they got their KOOLNESS STYLE but it sucks because it is not as kool as American style.

Are you being serious? graffitis all over the place? What if I want to walk naked in the streets? Hip hop culture? What the hel_l is that?

4. It is an animistic society (animistic in western means a mark of primitiveness).Thais cared too much about GHOSTS OR SPIRITS OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST. i personally believe in spirits but i do not waist too much time on it. i don't even waist too much time with religion.

The fact that you personally believe in spirits is ridiculous enough to me. But I couldn't care less. I believe that everyone should be entitled to freedom of beliefs provided they do not affect my way of living.

5. THE AGE THING. In Thailand, the age is a very important thing. i hate when i had to treat those who are older than me in a very respectful manner whether they are stupid or not. According to Thai Culture, The elderly/younger ones should always treat adults or older ones good just because of their age. In United States, i had many older friends and we treated each other equal or the same. My Mexican friend was 10 YEARS OLDER THAN ME! The problem with Thai's AGE RULES is that it has become like a barrier (age barrier) between human beings. This is why i don't see many relationship (whether it is a love relationship or friendship) between Thais of a very different age.

Isn't it a good thing to respect people who are older? Anyway I know what you mean. It's not a good thing if one is strictly not allowed to disagree with a person who is older.

6. Many Thai girls who goes with White men were prostitutors and seeing LOVE AS A BUSINESS. Infact, it is said that pretty girls from Northeastern Thailand (Originally Laotians) do not know what love means but they tend to be prostitutors or seeing love as business or even marrying with foreigners for money (just for a while) or just to go to Western developed countries. (Many Thais said this) Maybe it has to do with Poverty or they still got a Third-World-Mentality. IM I WRONG?

Is it really that hard to understand? True Love, to many people in the world, is a luxury. Not everyone can afford. Think about the list of necessities in surviving and try to see where the word "love" is ranked. Moreover, do you think it is easy for a woman to find a man that she really can rely on?

They are just looking for sense of security.

7. Discrimination against people of color is a big problem in Thailand. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with race but just the darker skin color. Thai with darker skin was normally considered a prostitutor or a farmer or a low class person because many Thais believe that people of color are poor and had to stay under the sun light for a long time due to their poverty so these people, whether they are Thais or not were discriminated by other light-skin Thais. This is ridiculous! I cannot stay in an atmosphere of hatred and discrimination as well as jealousness. Thai society is also a society of jealous people so beware of these jealous people. It clearly shows that there is some kind of a Caste System in Thailand like in India.

Strange, I thought you said you were from Italy. You should know much more than I do regarding racism, I guess. I encountered a few racist acts in just a few hours' stay in Rome 10 years ago. Not to mention the football matches in some of the places where black people aren't welcomed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Eurasion,

Do you speak Thai fluently? Do you think you understand the mentality of most Thai people? And also what Thais are you refering to? Hi-sos, middle class, Bangkok Thais or Isaan Thais?

I am eurasion too.(half scotish half chinese)

Here are some of my response:

1. People see me as not being half Thai and they called my "farang" or just because i am mixed and i have high status when im in Bangkok. WHY? Is it because the Thais look down on themselves? They treated me as if i am a God or something but they treated their own people not as good as me. It appreciates me but it also disturbs me because otherwise it means that they cared to much about "race" or skin color which could be marked as racism. Tell me if im wrong. THEY ALWAYS LOOK AT ME AND MEMORIZED MY FACE WHEREVER I GO IN PUBLIC PLACES IN THAILAND. IM AMAZED! AS IF I AM A FAMOUS MOVIE ACTOR!!! I HAD NO PRIVACY!

That is because they(Thais) have seen a lot of good things done by farangs. They have seen the capability of farangs doing the impossibles from the media. And believe farangs are a nice bunch of people. And most of all they think of you as their guests. Doesn't that feel good?

2. I agreed with Jammal when it comes to talking about the "Saving of One's Face". It was ridiculous. I recommend tourists not to ask many simple questions such as "where is that store?" to most Thais when staying in Thailand because i found out that most of them (99.9%) (not all) (almost all!) used to lie to me even if they do not know the real answer to my question just to save their face. It is true that Thais are exagerated by keeping their form/face in a good shape but it does not made them an open-minded people. The problem is, they have a habit in lieing to other people and it is becoming like a drug in which everyones start saying something that is not true.

This has not been my experience. Though, I could understand if there is a communication gap between you and them.

3. Less understanding about Western Hip Hop Culture. This is due to incompatibility between Thai's Culture and American's Hip Hop Culture. Most Thai's culture rules are still ancient primitive and do not accept the modern rap or hip hop mentality such as making graffitis on the wall, dressing like a gangster, smoking alot, using "kooooool" words, using bad words in public places, kissing in public places, or accepting the truth. a==Inappropriate comments deleted==Surprisingly, i almost don't see any Graffitis in Thailand and i was the one who did kool Graffitis and they arrested me and asked strange questions and they did not wanted to understand about Hip Hop Culture's Graffitis. In Italy, you will always find thousands of Graffitis but in Thailand the Thais are down with Graffitis. The Thai Rap musics sucks, and it is very RARE to see a Thai Teenager listening to a Rap music. Hip Hop Culture does support many negativities because it is a sub-culture borned in New York, Chicago around 1970s. It looks like most Thais do not know what "KOOL" means or it is because they got their KOOLNESS STYLE but it sucks because it is not as kool as American style.

Are you being serious? graffitis all over the place? What if I want to walk naked in the streets? Hip hop culture? What the hel_l is that?

4. It is an animistic society (animistic in western means a mark of primitiveness).Thais cared too much about GHOSTS OR SPIRITS OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST. i personally believe in spirits but i do not waist too much time on it. i don't even waist too much time with religion.

The fact that you personally believe in spirits is ridiculous enough to me. But I couldn't care less. I believe that everyone should be entitled to freedom of beliefs provided they do not affect my way of living.

5. THE AGE THING. In Thailand, the age is a very important thing. i hate when i had to treat those who are older than me in a very respectful manner whether they are stupid or not. According to Thai Culture, The elderly/younger ones should always treat adults or older ones good just because of their age. In United States, i had many older friends and we treated each other equal or the same. My Mexican friend was 10 YEARS OLDER THAN ME! The problem with Thai's AGE RULES is that it has become like a barrier (age barrier) between human beings. This is why i don't see many relationship (whether it is a love relationship or friendship) between Thais of a very different age.

Isn't it a good thing to respect people who are older? Anyway I know what you mean. It's not a good thing if one is strictly not allowed to disagree with a person who is older.

6. Many Thai girls who goes with White men were prostitutors and seeing LOVE AS A BUSINESS. Infact, it is said that pretty girls from Northeastern Thailand (Originally Laotians) do not know what love means but they tend to be prostitutors or seeing love as business or even marrying with foreigners for money (just for a while) or just to go to Western developed countries. (Many Thais said this) Maybe it has to do with Poverty or they still got a Third-World-Mentality. IM I WRONG?

Is it really that hard to understand? True Love, to many people in the world, is a luxury. Not everyone can afford. Think about the list of necessities in surviving and try to see where the word "love" is ranked. Moreover, do you think it is easy for a woman to find a man that she really can rely on?

They are just looking for sense of security.

7. Discrimination against people of color is a big problem in Thailand. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with race but just the darker skin color. Thai with darker skin was normally considered a prostitutor or a farmer or a low class person because many Thais believe that people of color are poor and had to stay under the sun light for a long time due to their poverty so these people, whether they are Thais or not were discriminated by other light-skin Thais. This is ridiculous! I cannot stay in an atmosphere of hatred and discrimination as well as jealousness. Thai society is also a society of jealous people so beware of these jealous people. It clearly shows that there is some kind of a Caste System in Thailand like in India.

Strange, I thought you said you were from Italy. You should know much more than I do regarding racism, I guess. I encountered a few racist acts in just a few hours' stay in Rome 10 years ago. Not to mention the football matches in some of the places where black people aren't welcomed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Meemiathai,

These are my responds to some of your questions:

Hello Eurasion,

Do you speak Thai fluently? Do you think you understand the mentality of most Thai people? And also what Thais are you refering to? Hi-sos, middle class, Bangkok Thais or Isaan Thais?

I am eurasion too.(half scotish half chinese)

Oh yes, I speak Thai fluently. Oh yes, I do understand the mentality of most Thai people as well as most Third-World people's mentality. I am referring to most Thais and most Southeast Asians people. OK? Well, you know, Thailand has characteristics like Third World Country like India: There are low-class (poor)people(about 95% of Thai population), and there are other VERY VERY RICH THAIS but the percentage of the middle-class people is still very low. Isaan Thais are originally Laotian ethnic people who crossed "Mei Nam Kong" River to get to Northeastern Thailand's border and yep, most are very poor, also due to their poor fertile, dried lands as well as their low income and low value culture (even if they claimed that they are Thais but they still maintained their Laotian Culture).

That is because they(Thais) have seen a lot of good things done by farangs. They have seen the capability of farangs doing the impossibles from the media. And believe farangs are a nice bunch of people. And most of all they think of you as their guests. Doesn't that feel good?

Oh yes, just like i mentioned: i appreciated that but what about other Thais? WHY HUMAN BEINGS DO NOT TREAT EACH OTHER EQUAL? No Meemiathai, these things are not impossibles but they are possibles and this is why i revolutionized myself like other Humans from developed countries do. I spent a long time traveling in my life and i lived in many countries because of my dad's job so i know how people should be treated. You know i thought that THEY SMILE AT ME BECAUSE THEY THINK I AM RICH!!!!!!!!! SO THATS WHY I GOT ROBBED MANY TIMES BY THEM!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AND I BET THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THIS SO-CALLED FORUM BELIEVE THIS. HAHAHAHA

This has not been my experience. Though, I could understand if there is a communication gap between you and them.

Nope, there is no communication gap since i understand Thai quite well.

Meemiathai, IT IS NOT A MATTER OF COMMUNICATION OR LANGUAGE SKILL, BUT IT IS A MATTER OF CULTURE RULE. DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? THE CULTURES RULES I POSTED FROM 1 TO 7 ARE REAL ONES NOT FAKE. "SAVING ONE'S FACE" WAS DONE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME BY THAIS WHO SUPPORTED THIS PARTICULAR CULTURE REGULATION/RULE. GET IT DUDE???

Are you being serious? graffitis all over the place? What if I want to walk naked in the streets? Hip hop culture? What the hel_l is that?

WHAT?! ARE YOU HALF SCOTTISH OR WHAT?! All im saying dude is this: Seeing Graffitis in the public places is part of a Hip Hop Culture. Ok? I am not saying that there should be graffitis all over the place. You do not seem to understand this. hmmm im wondering...

The fact that you personally believe in spirits is ridiculous enough to me. But I couldn't care less. I believe that everyone should be entitled to freedom of beliefs provided they do not affect my way of living.

No Dude, My belief is not even a belief since it is based on fact/ evidence. I don't want to get into an argument about "Paranormal Science" and "EVP" which DOES EXIST AND DOES PROVE THE EVIDENCE OF SPIRIT'S EXISTENCE. Why don't you visit websites about Paranormal Science? It is Science dude... I don't even wanted to see it as part of religion like Thais do but AS SCIENCE. You got a problem with Science? Whats wrong with Paranormal Science? I share the same beliefs like many Thais and many other Scottish, English, Chinese people dude. It also sounded ridiculous to me but what can i do about it since the Universe is governed by strange phenomenons of Paranormal Science. But once again, do not exagerate with these arguments, i was just making an example of Thailand as animistic society and that many Thais exagerated with animistic rituals and its ancient worships because that would not certainly help our nation to develope fast.

Isn't it a good thing to respect people who are older? Anyway I know what you mean. It's not a good thing if one is strictly not allowed to disagree with a person who is older.

You know, i know who to respect. I respect only good people and it does not matter whether they are adults or older than me or not. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO TREAT EACH OTHER EQUAL WHETHER IT IS A RESPECT OR NOT.

I personally do not respect ignorant older people who do not respect me or if they are criminals or they are not good people but if you do then its fine but i don't think it would be the smartest thing to do. Isn't it?

Is it really that hard to understand? True Love, to many people in the world, is a luxury. Not everyone can afford. Think about the list of necessities in surviving and try to see where the word "love" is ranked. Moreover, do you think it is easy for a woman to find a man that she really can rely on?

They are just looking for sense of security.

With all respect, I agree on your point but i don't think it is a problem to say that many womens in Thailand happens to be prostitutors and seeing "Love" as part of their business due to their poverty and that many foreigners go with Thai prostitutors. (MANY THAIS SAID THESE THINGS AND IT IS BASED ON EVIDENCE)

You made i nice point dude. hmm you sounded like you got a Thai wife???

Strange, I thought you said you were from Italy. You should know much more than I do regarding racism, I guess. I encountered a few racist acts in just a few hours' stay in Rome 10 years ago. Not to mention the football matches in some of the places where black people aren't welcomed.

I am from Italy. If you want to get into an argument about racism then i would say that Racism is everywhere in this world include Scotland and China but it depends on where there are many racists and its percentage. Yes i agree, that Rome has Racists people but most Racists are not in Rome. I took a class about Racism in United States and i know well about where to find many racists in this world. Oh Come On! dude, I see Racism in Great Britain, do you think that the Scottish never face Racism committed by many British? Scotland is under English control and never gain independent after the British invasion and this includes Ireland so i also see many discriminations in Great Britain. I was not really talking about racism but i was talking about Discrimination against People of Color in Thailand committed by other light-skin Thais and it is a very common scenario. Do you understand?

Anyway Meemiathai, you sounded like you are not half Scottish and Chinese or MAYBE IM WRONG. Maybe it is because you got a Thai wife who had influenced you with strange Thai accent or something and this is why your screen name is: meemiathai.(meemiathai means having a Thai wife). Oh i see i see, so you got a Thai wife but you are not half Thai. Ok. Mai Pen Rai. Thanks for responding me!!!

Corp Kun Crap! HAHAHAHAH!!!

[MilkPlus]

This is one of the world's most INCOMPETENT FORUM BECAUSE MOST OF MY POSTS ABOUT THE WORLD'S GOVERNMENT AND ABOUT THAILAND WAS GONE!!! I WILL SUE THIS THAILAND FORUM AND I WILL LET EVERYONE BOYCOTT THIS INCOMPETENT FORUM. WE JUST CANNOT HAVE ANY KINDS OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT GOVERNMENT OF THAILAND AND THE HISTORY OF MONARCHY. I AM VERY DISSAPOINTED DUE TO THE VIOLATION OF MY FREE SPEECH ON THIS FORUM. MY COMMENTS AND SOME OF MY POSTS ARE DELETED!!! WHY?!!! WAS THE FORUM ADMINISTRATOR GONE CRAZY??? SORRY, BUT IN THE NAME OF GOD, I CAN USE MY MOUTH AND I CAN EXPRESS MYSELF. THERE WAS NO INAPPROPRIATNESS OF MY COMMENTS. I DID NOT USE ANY BAD WORDS. 

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I COME TO A CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS AN INCOMPETENT FORUM IN WHICH WE CAN NOT EVEN MAKE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF WORLD'S GOVERNMENT SYSTEM AND THAT MY REPLIES ARE DELETED!!! 

BLACKLIST FORUMS: WHITE POWER FORUM, THAILAND FORUM, CHINESE FORUM, NEO-NAZI FORUM, ARYAN NATION FORUM

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I bet he and 1,000s of others on this forum would like nothig better than to post page after page, but what are you going to do.

Just play the game, make it work to your advantage, come to Thailand and bow a little, bow while you carry bags of money home.

Smile, bow, play the game, laughing all the way.