Applications For Permanent Residency Open Until 30 Dec.

[troy04]

One weeks notice and to prepare, I get the feeling that they are not really serious about accepting permanent residents and it is just a token gesture. The Thai olympics, On your marks, get set, oh sorry to late. Why not run a competition? In two (2) words or less explain in detail why you would like to be chosen to become a permanent resident of Thailand.

I guarantee you there will be hundreds and hundreds of people making the deadline. None of those will be people who waste time griping on web boards about something they'll never end up doing.

Perfect said!

If you don't know anything about this then you're far away anyway. Badly informed and not long enough in the country I guess. And.. you need to be able to read and speak thai, that's why the form is in thai only, right.

To supply the documents is one week time, but to organize them you got months and years!

And to that guys wives comment: if she apply for any visa / foreign tourist visa (and many other applications), it's also not given that the visa will be granted, and the fee will not be refunded and lost. Each person have to know if it's worth the try and benefit once granted!

From one foreigner who got that status I know that you have to make a donation of 50'000 THB to a charity to fullfill, no more.

[troy04]

The reality is probably this. A large number will apply, and they'll choose only those who pay large sums under the table. Of those, those who pay the most will be chosen.

I've lived here 27 years and never felt the need to waste time and money on this residency visa. I know people who have been waiting for 4-5 years and who have paid the bribe as well. The annual renewal with a fee of 1,900 Baht is fine for me.

In my experience the vast majority of those who say they won't waste the time or money (or similar), don't qualify anyway.

The most obvious advantage is cast iron security of residence.Annual renewals don't provide that

It's not an option for retired people who have never worked legally here and paid tax.Camerata's guide is definitive.

There are no bribes involved, and actually I rather resent the lazy and ignorant foreign view that everything in Thailand can be brought under the table.It's a smear on the many excellent and honest officials at Immigration.

+1

I completely agree to your last quote! once you're experienced with officials, offices, business', lawyers, etc. you'll recognize that Thailand is quite correct at it and pretty well organized with mostly knowledgeable honest people! Just compare to communist countries, latin america or nearby, the Philippines..!

[troy04]

What I know is that you must have at least a visa based on married to a thai national for more than 3 years!

I never heard about language tests in writing or spoken, but I could understand it.

With the thai letters are quite hard to learn at least some language knowledge should be there.

We do expect the same in our countries.

At the end it just doesn't matter....once retired you have time to do the annual extension.

Being a thai resident does give you nearly nothing....there is no social network....or do you want to end in a public hospital?

You will anyway never be able to vote...

At that point most of us have already property and house written on the wife or kids....

Off topic:

In my own (and close friends) 15 yrs experience in Thailand I got the best experiences with several Government Hospitals (incl. Army Eye Hospital) in relation with medium heavy injury (i.e. motorbike accident) compared to some quite bad ones with private hospitals i.e. Bangkok (General) Hospital BKK and Ptya (3 cases, incl heavy motorbike accident), also in some lighter cases and check ups!

Even in light cases wrong observatiions were made while, in one specific case, of 3 visited hospitals the government was the only correct one, all they want is to have you as a in-house patient even not necessary, like a broken finger: 3 days, cost 45'000 ridiculous! Money rules.

Only one good experience I had with Bangkok General when they knew how to treat my (Laos-) malaria (as written in health books) while clinics didn't knew how to treat.

[samran]

The reality is probably this. A large number will apply, and they'll choose only those who pay large sums under the table. Of those, those who pay the most will be chosen.

I've lived here 27 years and never felt the need to waste time and money on this residency visa. I know people who have been waiting for 4-5 years and who have paid the bribe as well. The annual renewal with a fee of 1,900 Baht is fine for me.

In my experience the vast majority of those who say they won't waste the time or money (or similar), don't qualify anyway.

The most obvious advantage is cast iron security of residence.Annual renewals don't provide that

It's not an option for retired people who have never worked legally here and paid tax.Camerata's guide is definitive.

There are no bribes involved, and actually I rather resent the lazy and ignorant foreign view that everything in Thailand can be brought under the table.It's a smear on the many excellent and honest officials at Immigration.

Well said and entirely spot on.

[agudbuk]

I believe it's generous of any nation to extend residency to non-nationals.

[haveaniceday]

So your a PR, but still can't work right ?????

[Captain Chaos]

As I understand it, you need a work permit as a PR, but it is a non-quota permit, so none of the checks about how much paid up share cap or Thai e'ees the company has etc...

[mortenaa]

Also...I believe you may buy a condo without regard for the 51-49 foreigner rule (ie., you can still buy a condo even if the foreigner quota is already used up). Not 100% sure, though; maybe someone else can confirm.

Im not sure about that, but one advantage with PR is that you can buy a condo with funds within Thailand, salary from work, profit-gains from investments etc. Withouth a PR you would need to show proof that the fund is transferred from abroad with the means of bying a certain property.

I cant really understand you guys which doesnt see the advantage of having PR. For me it would bring peace of mind. I work, and need to gather a zillion documents every year to get my extension. And then wait a whole month to get approved... or not..

[prvtdetdave]

"Utter Rubbish"

[prakhonchai nick]

How wrong can you be? I know so so many PR's...dozens and dozens of them.

Would that not be just a slight exaggeration?

I've had PR for 22 years You don't know me nor I you. In fact i do'nt know anyone else who has PR!!!

[NewlyMintedThai]

Absolutely not an exaggeration.

Maybe because I live in Bangkok and you appear to live upcountry.

A good portion of my long-term acquaintances have gone this route.

[kaorop]

Nearly impossible to get, interview conducted in both written & spoken Thai, proof of at-least 60,000 THB paid in tax, 250,000 THB fee, business holdings in I forget the amount,  that's only what I remember. In 31 yrs only know of one farang to ever get one.

If anyone is thinking it's & easy way out 90 day report dates, & worth maybe $20,000.00 USD go for it.

"Nearly impossible"?

How wrong can you be?  I know so so many PR's...dozens and dozens of them.

If you're qualified and speak anything resembling basic Thai, you will get it if you are patient enough.

One day someone is going to decide to clean out the backlog, then everyone in the queue will get it.  If you're not in the queue because you think it's "nearly impossible" or that you'll be dead first -- obviously you're not going to get it.

You questioned someone who posted his friend spent big baht trying to get one.You claimed you got it, "it is a points system"Then a mod listed the costs which are substantial Could you clarify this anomaly?

[samran]

^^

Well you don't pay any of the big costs until you are approved. It isn't rocket science.

[p_brownstone]

^^

Well you don't pay any of the big costs until you are approved. It isn't rocket science.

Exactly.

There is a small Fee to be paid when you submit the Documents (around Baht 7,000.- I believe but not sure).

The Police Department will check your application before they accept it - and the Fee - and if they believe you have no chance of success they will not accept either.

Patrick

[oldlady]

I applied on 24 Dec 2007 and was the 25th applicant from the UK to apply that year. So it is unlikely that more than 50 applicants from the UK applied that year i.e. the UK quota of 50 was not used up.

How did you find out what number applicant you were?

[oldlady]

^^

Well you don't pay any of the big costs until you are approved. It isn't rocket science.

Exactly.

There is a small Fee to be paid when you submit the Documents (around Baht 7,000.- I believe but not sure).

The Police Department will check your application before they accept it - and the Fee - and if they believe you have no chance of success they will not accept either.

Patrick

I think that they charge the 7600 baht to cover the cost of checking all of your documentation. There is a lot of paperwork.

[oldlady]

I just spent the last three days in numerous government offices (as well as the gov't hospital) getting the documents needed for the PR, and although there were a lot of hoops, the process was not as impossible as it sounds. I have neither a Thai husband nor children, but could still do the process on my own.

My real concern now, though, it the Thai language test. I'm quite worried about that as I don't have much Thai language at all. I'm signing up for an intensive course, but all of the lessons will have to be after work (not the best of times as I'm always exhausted by then) but any help those of you on this forum could give about what I should spend most of my time studying would be extremely helpful.

I read about the video tape (that makes me even more nervous) but if anyone has an idea on specific questions or where I should truly concentrate, I'd be grateful for the information.

Many thanks in advance... :-)

[NewlyMintedThai]

Nearly impossible to get, interview conducted in both written & spoken Thai, proof of at-least 60,000 THB paid in tax, 250,000 THB fee, business holdings in I forget the amount,  that's only what I remember. In 31 yrs only know of one farang to ever get one.

If anyone is thinking it's & easy way out 90 day report dates, & worth maybe $20,000.00 USD go for it.

"Nearly impossible"?

How wrong can you be?  I know so so many PR's...dozens and dozens of them.

If you're qualified and speak anything resembling basic Thai, you will get it if you are patient enough.

One day someone is going to decide to clean out the backlog, then everyone in the queue will get it.  If you're not in the queue because you think it's "nearly impossible" or that you'll be dead first -- obviously you're not going to get it.

You questioned someone who posted his friend spent big baht trying to get one.You claimed you got it, "it is a points system"Then a mod listed the costs which are substantial Could you clarify this anomaly?

An unsuccessful applicant should only be out the application fee (7,600 baht). The poster claimed he was out 100K+...

[Mario2008]

I just spent the last three days in numerous government offices (as well as the gov't hospital) getting the documents needed for the PR, and although there were a lot of hoops, the process was not as impossible as it sounds. I have neither a Thai husband nor children, but could still do the process on my own.

My real concern now, though, it the Thai language test. I'm quite worried about that as I don't have much Thai language at all. I'm signing up for an intensive course, but all of the lessons will have to be after work (not the best of times as I'm always exhausted by then) but any help those of you on this forum could give about what I should spend most of my time studying would be extremely helpful.

I read about the video tape (that makes me even more nervous) but if anyone has an idea on specific questions or where I should truly concentrate, I'd be grateful for the information.

Many thanks in advance... :-)

There is a lot of information here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/74654-cameratas-guide-to-the-permanent-residence-process/

[Mario2008]

Nearly impossible to get, interview conducted in both written & spoken Thai, proof of at-least 60,000 THB paid in tax, 250,000 THB fee, business holdings in I forget the amount, that's only what I remember. In 31 yrs only know of one farang to ever get one.

If anyone is thinking it's & easy way out 90 day report dates, & worth maybe $20,000.00 USD go for it.

"Nearly impossible"?

How wrong can you be? I know so so many PR's...dozens and dozens of them.

If you're qualified and speak anything resembling basic Thai, you will get it if you are patient enough.

One day someone is going to decide to clean out the backlog, then everyone in the queue will get it. If you're not in the queue because you think it's "nearly impossible" or that you'll be dead first -- obviously you're not going to get it.

You questioned someone who posted his friend spent big baht trying to get one.You claimed you got it, "it is a points system"Then a mod listed the costs which are substantial Could you clarify this anomaly?

An unsuccessful applicant should only be out the application fee (7,600 baht). The poster claimed he was out 100K+...

Application fee is only 7,600 (of course you will need to get documents from your home country, which will cost). They will simply not accept your application if they think you stand no chance or your documetns are not in order.

Not untill PR is approved do you pay the big bucks.

[Screws]

My wife read the document and said that one has to pay and it is not worth it if you have no guarantee that the process will be completed

Another fundraiser?

[Arkady]

Also...I believe you may buy a condo without regard for the 51-49 foreigner rule (ie., you can still buy a condo even if the foreigner quota is already used up). Not 100% sure, though; maybe someone else can confirm.

Im not sure about that, but one advantage with PR is that you can buy a condo with funds within Thailand, salary from work, profit-gains from investments etc. Withouth a PR you would need to show proof that the fund is transferred from abroad with the means of bying a certain property.

I cant really understand you guys which doesnt see the advantage of having PR. For me it would bring peace of mind. I work, and need to gather a zillion documents every year to get my extension. And then wait a whole month to get approved... or not..

As I understand it, you can buy a condo without any documentation about where the Thai baht came from as a PR and I have done this after, of course, having to point out to the property developer where they could find the relevant regulations to support my view. Those on work permits can buy a condo, if they can show evidence that they earned the Thai baht from working legally in Thailand. All other foreigners need to show that they remitted foreign currency to Thailand. However, PRs still count as foreigners vis a vis the 49% quota of usable space in the building available for foreign registration.

For those interested you can obtain a gun permit as a PR. You can transfer vehicles without a work permit or any other hassles. You can use the Thai passport queue at the airport. You can open bank accounts without a work permit, after explaining to them what PR is.

I have obtained a work permit as a PR twice without any Thai employees and no questions were asked other staff. Some one, who is not a PR himself, recently told me this is no longer the case, since last year's minor revamp of work permit documentation requirements but I haven't been able to verify this, as I now work for a company with loads of Thai employees. I think it should be still possible, since the four Thai employee rule is from Immigration, who thankfully have nothing to do with the process for issuing WPs to PRs.

[Arkady]

I just spent the last three days in numerous government offices (as well as the gov't hospital) getting the documents needed for the PR, and although there were a lot of hoops, the process was not as impossible as it sounds. I have neither a Thai husband nor children, but could still do the process on my own.

My real concern now, though, it the Thai language test. I'm quite worried about that as I don't have much Thai language at all. I'm signing up for an intensive course, but all of the lessons will have to be after work (not the best of times as I'm always exhausted by then) but any help those of you on this forum could give about what I should spend most of my time studying would be extremely helpful.

I read about the video tape (that makes me even more nervous) but if anyone has an idea on specific questions or where I should truly concentrate, I'd be grateful for the information.

Many thanks in advance... :-)

It used to be a simple multiple choice with no way to fail but friends who did it about three years back were interviewed by a panel. Questions asked were mainly small talk about the applicant's situation in Thailand but they are also likely to ask what contribution you feel you have made to Thai society. They don't demand high level Thai and those with medium level language skills found it very easy. However, I know one guy whose Thai is almost non existent despite lessons who must have failed because he couldn't understand most of the questions. Another friend understood the questions but couldn't answer the more difficult ones in Thai. Rather than pass on those he answered them in English which I don't suppose got him very high marks. Anyway you are right to put in as much time as possible studying Thai and rigorously practicing Q&A sessions with a teacher, if you want to stand a chance. Remember they will use formal words for 'wife', 'child' etc - 'panrayaa, 'butr', not 'faen', 'look' etc. Personally I can't see why Thailand should grant PR to anyone who can't speak and understand at least medium level Thai, although when I did it in the 90s, there was no Thai language requirement at all.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Arkady

[Arkady]

This year, as usual the quota for applications is 100 per nationality and 50 for stateless persons (interior minister's announcement attached). Only the Chinese are regularly up against this quota and they are indeed the people the quota was intended to keep out when it was introduced in the 50s. So it is still working as intended. I don't think any farang nationalities have ever reached their quotas but I think Indians have once or twice. It is a non-issue for farangs.

In the past most of the applications accepted were approved within one year but the process became subject to inexplicable and lengthy delays starting from the Thaksin 1 government when the famous xenophobe, Purachai, was interior minister - he also blocked all citizenship applications for a couple of years and then went to live in NZ for a few years with his family after Thaksin got rid of him. At any rate, most of the real no hopers are advised by Immigration to save the application fee and not apply. Most people I know who have actually been rejected were purely for technical reasons, e.g. worked for a rep office which doesn't qualify under the business quota as it is not a company registered in Thailand, or found to be doing more than one job with the others not on the work permit - yes, you would be surprised how many people who are non-exec directors of other companies get caught out by this. I have never heard of anyone being rejected just for being unsuitable and even one of the people rejected for not working for a company registered in Thailand applied successfully the following year after changing his employment status. A final point is that a senior immigration officer told me in the 90s that they had an internal regulation to reject all applicants working for Bt 2 million companies as they were suspicious of foreigners running their own small businesses. I don't know if this is still the case.

Good luck to all in the class of 2011!

Permanent Residence Announcement 2011 TH.PDF

Edited December 24, 2011 by Arkady

[sbk]

Post deleted, this thread is about PR. cheers

[Arkady]

Some one asked about how easy it is to lose PR. The answer is that they are extremely strict on revoking PR of those who fail to endorse their Certificate of Residence due to being abroad. No excuse is accepted, not even having documentation to prove that you were suddenly taken seriously ill abroad and couldn't return to Thailand in time - I know of one case like this but they helped him reapply successfully the next year (the success fee was a mere Bt 50k, in those days). That is the only black and white grounds for revocation. Other than that revocation is extremely rare. It is a serious matter as it has to go before the Immigration Commission for recommendation and be approved by the interior minister. The conditions are somewhat vague in the Immigration Act as they seem to be jumbled up with the grounds for refusing entry to people without PR. I have never heard of any cases apart from people who overstayed abroad but I am sure you could lose it, if you were convicted by a Thai or foreign court for a serious crime. Otherwise I think it would be difficult. This is likely to be similar to the process for revocation of Thai citizenship from those who are not Thai by descent on grounds of constituting a threat to national security or public order. There is reference to such cases in the Royal Gazette and most of them were people convicted of a serious crime like drug smuggling in a Thai or foreign court.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Arkady

[Sydebolle]

It is amazing what I read here. You want to become permanent resident then you have to do it their way. The filing of application is - and always was - the last two weeks in December. Why? Dont ask!

Getting prepared is another thing. I started in September of said year and had all the papers together, went with a complete file and completed form to apply. It cost me the application fee of a few thousand Baht. They then fingerprint you and make an appointment for the interview; latter in Thai as they - quite rightly so - say, if you want to live here for good you better speak the local lingua. The interview date came and we had a lot of fun (my Thai was fluent at the time). Another 11 months of waiting and then the letter came. Today's fee is approx. THB 200'000 for a single and THB 100'000 for a non-Thai married to a Thai person. This fee applies only upon successful granting; if denied you would lose the application fee of a few thousand Baht.

It can take years; while waiting they chop "application for residence under consideration" every six months - no other papers needed.

If you are below 50 years of age and intend to stay, then go for it. No more visa extensions, 90 day notification etc. etc. etc. You deal with banks and the government = present the blue house registration where you are listed and you will be treated differently to all the rest. You cannot purchase land and you cannot vote, everything else is like a Thai (incl. buying condominiums in the Thai allotment without proof of foreign money transferred in). Drawback = every five years you see the police for an endorsement of the brown police book (rubberstamp exercise, that it) and IF you want to leave the country then you need to endorse the "Certificate of Residence" and a re-entry permint. Beware; the residence permit EXPIRES if you are out of the country more than one year continuously.

In closing I suggest, take a lawyer (i.e. Khun Anuchai, www.kss.co.th) who will look at your file and if they take it they get you through. Fix a flat deal for their services and you will be sleeping like a baby.

And unlike many things you write/read here - you want this priviledge then you have to do as THEY WANT; dont moan about it.

Seasons Greetings to all of you

[hemanrcr]

I have been a Permanent Resident for 6 years. You must be able to read and speak Thai --besides all the documentation you must take a written test in Thai which asks questions like the colors of the flag and the King's birthday. Then you must tell your life story and introduce your family--all in Thai--which is videotaped. There are no guarantees--why would there be? Once you are in the Permanent Resident section only Thai is spoken, so you better be able to converse on a general level. In addition to the requirements listed in the official documentation--which is on various legal websites--they have a point system to give you points for your financial status, education levels, if you are a business owner--the size of your business and number of staff you employ, any recommendations or sponsorship by politicians/important people, any charity or volunteer work you have done, or any other qualification that you have that they would consider beneficial to Thailand.

As they say, if you don't like it............

[hemanrcr]

You can work with a PR--in fact your process to obtain a work permit at the Labour Dept goes smoother.

[mortenaa]

As I understand it, you can buy a condo without any documentation about where the Thai baht came from as a PR and I have done this after, of course, having to point out to the property developer where they could find the relevant regulations to support my view. Those on work permits can buy a condo, if they can show evidence that they earned the Thai baht from working legally in Thailand. All other foreigners need to show that they remitted foreign currency to Thailand. However, PRs still count as foreigners vis a vis the 49% quota of usable space in the building available for foreign registration.

Yes, thats exactly what I said. Having a PR helps. Having a work-permit does not help you though, as you still have to show funds is remited from abroad. I just bought condo, and can confirm that this is correct. The poo-yai at the land department said there was one way though. That is to open a "non-immigrant"-account with a Thai bank, which you need to report every transaction to BOT. The banks are reluctant to open this kind of accounts, as it involves more reporting, hence more work as far as I can understand. And even a transfer from your normal savings account to a non-immigrant-account involves some sort of documentation needs of where the funds are coming from etc.. Maybe some-one here with such an account could elaborate further..

Edited December 25, 2011 by mortenaa