Honda Crf 250L

[BSJ]

I doubt that I will be buying an off-road bike anytime soon, but what I would be looking for is:

1/ Light weight

2/ Nimble handling

3/ Good low to mid-range torgue

4/ Good ground clearance

5/ Adjustable suspension f/r

6/ Reliability

[nikster]

Wonder how much that huge can weighs... it looks massive.

Love the side by side comparison pix - these bikes are pretty competitive all in all, even in the looks department. Honda has nothing like the blue DTX of course... that's hot! Unfortunately that's not stock, I think it's a Japanese color scheme. The Thai blue version has a bit more white and isn't as nice. Easy to change of course.

[strollling]

Wonder how much that huge can weighs... it looks massive.

Wonder if they have a cat in it, like the CBR250R.

[Big Guns]

I had a look at a white one today in Ban Chang, its a nice looking bike. There have been comments about it being low. I'm 5,9 and I can't get my feet flat on the ground. It seems to be a nice looking fun bike for the money.

[nikster]

Wonder how much that huge can weighs... it looks massive.

Wonder if they have a cat in it, like the CBR250R.

Pretty sure they do

Saw Mr. Pop himself today in CM running around on one, so POP bike rental should have one for rent already. He was going like a madman, almost faster than me

[strollling]

Well getting rid of the muffler is going to shed some KG then. Think the CBR250R muffler is something like 10kg.

Edited May 12, 2012 by strollling

[JonnyF]

The crf in the uk is 4000 about 200,000b so a lot cheaper here!

Yeah, AP Honda do a great job when it comes to the price of their 250s... and dealers have the freedom to offer great prices on them.

Compare to Kawasaki whose 250s are more expensive(?) in Thailand than in America despite being shipped half way round the world... over priced and restrictive price management by Thai Kawa, raping the customers because they could due to their monopoly.

It was great to see Kawa Australia cut around $1500 off the Ninjette's price tag because they realised the monopoly was over when Honda undercut them with a better bike! Pity that Thai Kawa are too stubborn to do the same.

No 'porky' comments about the heavier Honda? In your former life as forum member 'hehehoho' you seemed obsessed with a few kilos when comparing the Ninja and the CBr and yet on an off road bike where weight is much more significant we don't hear a peep. Keep on sTROLLING, gots to get paid, right?

The difference being that the Ninja is ~8 kg heavier while only having some 2 HP more, while the CRF is 5 kg heavier while apparently having ~3 HP more than an unrestricted KLX (a whopping 6 more than a restricted one). Means that each extra HP on the CRF costs you 1,6 kg (over a 'fixed' KLX) versus the Ninja offering each extra HP for 4 kg. Understand how the tradeoff seems to be worth it?

When a bike is laid over on a track and you're tired the only thing that matters is weight. Hp vs weight ratios are irrelevant at that point, same as when your trying to negotiate a tough trail at low speed, weight is everything you might only need 15 hp.

Road bikes are totally different 'most' people don't have to pick them up on a regular basis and at high speeds weight can add a bit of stability, dirt bikes are generally rode at low speeds where you feel the weight more.

I actually like the CRf and might buy one but pretending that additional weight on a Dirt bike doesn't matter is kind of silly. The kawi is already too heavy and Honda exaggerated the issue instead of correcting kawis mistake.

[dave_boo]

When a bike is laid over on a track and you're tired the only thing that matters is weight. Hp vs weight ratios are irrelevant at that point, same as when your trying to negotiate a tough trail at low speed, weight is everything you might only need 15 hp.

Road bikes are totally different 'most' people don't have to pick them up on a regular basis and at high speeds weight can add a bit of stability, dirt bikes are generally rode at low speeds where you feel the weight more.

I actually like the CRf and might buy one but pretending that additional weight on a Dirt bike doesn't matter is kind of silly. The kawi is already too heavy and Honda exaggerated the issue instead of correcting kawis mistake.

I think that only a handful of boardmembers have ridden both bikes, and let's defer to their abject, and more experienced opinion; namely that the weight difference between the two bikes is essentially non-existent.I'm still interested in where each of the bikes wear their weight. Does the CRF have a lower COG similar as it has a lower ground clearance? This would definitely make the bike feel lighter than its true weight. Easiest way to test that is to tip each bike over and attach a 'fish' scale to see how many kg are exerted bring the bikes upright. Fewer kg to bring vertical means less stress for the times the bike goes down.But you are correct; both bikes are heavy (one 4% more than the other) but are consumers willing to pay for the lighter weight they want? Are wallets going to be opened up for liberal usage of aluminium, magnesium, and carbon fibre? Kinda doubt it, so for what the prices are I guess that we're just going to have to live with the weight now, won't we?

[RED21]

Saw three all-white ones today being prepped at Niyom Panich on Mahidol Road in Chiang Mai, while waiting for the mechs to finish servicing my CBR this morning. Maybe it's just me but the bike actually looks thinner compared to the KLX up close and a wee bit smaller. Methinks those three bikes already had owners waiting for the call to pick their new bikes.

[strollling]

The weight difference is 5kg? Safe bet that getting rid of the cat will rid most of that.

[soon2bexpat]

The weight difference is 5kg? Safe bet that getting rid of the cat will rid most of that.

But then doing the same to a KLX will reduce its weight.

I've followed this thread with some interest as I was looking for a user friendly (novice) off road capable bike. I couldn't wait for the CRF so went to the Kawasaki dealer. Yes its restricted and bloody heavy to pick up if you drop it after an hour or so of off road / single track riding in the heat however it is more than capable for my current ability and I imagine the CRF is very similar. Why people have to bicker is beyond me. Neither bike is a full on dirt bike, neither bike was designed with that in mind by either Honda or Kawasaki hence the dual sport designation. Obviously owners of either bike are going to be biased towards their own machine after parting with cash for one. But everyone needs to remember these are not hard core dirt bikes in the same vein as a, KTM, Gas Gas, Sherco, or any of the Japanese offerings.

If you like black or green buy a KLX if red or white buy a CRF both should be more than capable of doing the same thing in a very similar fashion. All bikes have their shortcomings and no owner likes to be reminded of them or made aware of them.

[taninthai]

took my down the local track to have look around todAY

its got a little overgrown the green mound to the right is supposed to be jump

the thai owner also has a flat atv track there which he said i can use whenever i like to practice so will give it a go in a couple of days

alittle shot off the rear end seems this is as good as i can get it to look until they start bringing out some aftermarket bits

had mine up to an indicated 135 today with a gps reading of 125 have previously seen 140 indicated but to many cars on road today..

[BigBikeBKK]

When a bike is laid over on a track and you're tired the only thing that matters is weight. Hp vs weight ratios are irrelevant at that point, same as when your trying to negotiate a tough trail at low speed, weight is everything you might only need 15 hp.

Road bikes are totally different 'most' people don't have to pick them up on a regular basis and at high speeds weight can add a bit of stability, dirt bikes are generally rode at low speeds where you feel the weight more.

I actually like the CRf and might buy one but pretending that additional weight on a Dirt bike doesn't matter is kind of silly. The kawi is already too heavy and Honda exaggerated the issue instead of correcting kawis mistake.

I think that only a handful of boardmembers have ridden both bikes, and let's defer to their abject, and more experienced opinion; namely that the weight difference between the two bikes is essentially non-existent.I'm still interested in where each of the bikes wear their weight. Does the CRF have a lower COG similar as it has a lower ground clearance? This would definitely make the bike feel lighter than its true weight. Easiest way to test that is to tip each bike over and attach a 'fish' scale to see how many kg are exerted bring the bikes upright. Fewer kg to bring vertical means less stress for the times the bike goes down.But you are correct; both bikes are heavy (one 4% more than the other) but are consumers willing to pay for the lighter weight they want? Are wallets going to be opened up for liberal usage of aluminium, magnesium, and carbon fibre? Kinda doubt it, so for what the prices are I guess that we're just going to have to live with the weight now, won't we?

Ah the old fish scale test. Another Dave_Boo invention?

Have you ever ridden a bike a dirt bike? (Riding the Ninjette into the sugar cane doesn't count)

BTW, how many people did it take to get your Ninjette out of the ditch? I seem you recall you couldn't do it by yourself and the Ninjette is a pretty light bike...

You keep pretending weight doesn't matter; it seems you have a rather short memory

[BigBikeBKK]

The crf in the uk is 4000 about 200,000b so a lot cheaper here!

Yeah, AP Honda do a great job when it comes to the price of their 250s... and dealers have the freedom to offer great prices on them.

Compare to Kawasaki whose 250s are more expensive(?) in Thailand than in America despite being shipped half way round the world... over priced and restrictive price management by Thai Kawa, raping the customers because they could due to their monopoly.

It was great to see Kawa Australia cut around $1500 off the Ninjette's price tag because they realised the monopoly was over when Honda undercut them with a better bike! Pity that Thai Kawa are too stubborn to do the same.

No 'porky' comments about the heavier Honda? In your former life as forum member 'hehehoho' you seemed obsessed with a few kilos when comparing the Ninja and the CBr and yet on an off road bike where weight is much more significant we don't hear a peep. Keep on sTROLLING, gots to get paid, right?

The difference being that the Ninja is ~8 kg heavier while only having some 2 HP more, while the CRF is 5 kg heavier while apparently having ~3 HP more than an unrestricted KLX (a whopping 6 more than a restricted one). Means that each extra HP on the CRF costs you 1,6 kg (over a 'fixed' KLX) versus the Ninja offering each extra HP for 4 kg. Understand how the tradeoff seems to be worth it?

Are you claiming the Honda CB'r' 250 suffers only a 2hp defect next to the Kawasaki Ninjette?

And you call me dishonest?

Neither bike is powerful, but the CB'r' thumper is down on power compared to the Ninjette by about 4hp, not 2!

"This is backed up on the dyno, at least in terms of top-end horsepower, as the Honda produces 22.66 hp at 8600 rpm, while the Kawasaki twists the drum to the tune of 26.34 hp at 11,000 rpm."

Source: http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/114/9135/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Honda-CBR250R-Comparison.aspx

In the real world, this is the result:

I'm not sure why Dave_Boo brought the high revving twin cylinder Kawasaki Ninjette road bike into the conversation as it doesn't really have any bearing on the topic at hand. For dirtbikes TORQUE is far more important than horsepower.

Let the Good Times ROLL!

T

[wantan]

Ah the old fish scale test. Another Dave_Boo invention?

Have you ever ridden a bike a dirt bike? (Riding the Ninjette into the sugar cane doesn't count)

BTW, how many people did it take to get your Ninjette out of the ditch? I seem you recall you couldn't do it by yourself and the Ninjette is a pretty light bike...

You keep pretending weight doesn't matter; it seems you have a rather short memory

... says the man who got a heat stroke from making video at Bo Din. I guess he fears getting a heart attack on the Crf because the bike is too heavy for him

Edited May 12, 2012 by wantan

[BigBikeBKK]

The crf in the uk is 4000 about 200,000b so a lot cheaper here!

Yeah, AP Honda do a great job when it comes to the price of their 250s... and dealers have the freedom to offer great prices on them.

Compare to Kawasaki whose 250s are more expensive(?) in Thailand than in America despite being shipped half way round the world... over priced and restrictive price management by Thai Kawa, raping the customers because they could due to their monopoly.

It was great to see Kawa Australia cut around $1500 off the Ninjette's price tag because they realised the monopoly was over when Honda undercut them with a better bike! Pity that Thai Kawa are too stubborn to do the same.

"Freedom to offer great prices"? Really?

Not sure what cave you live in, but here in the real world when they released the new CB'r' 250 we witnessed many greedy Honda dealers in Thailand completely ignore the AP Honda MSRP and charge huge markups on the new 250cc thumper.

The MSRP was perhaps a "great price", but how many dealers ever sold the bike at the AP Honda MSRP?

So far we see with the CRF250L the same pattern of price gouging that occurred with the CB'r' 250. Some greedy Honda dealers are trying to charge as much as 150k baht for the new CRF250L. (Compared to the fixed price of 152500 Baht for the Kawasaki KLX250).

With these cheap new 250's Honda can certainly beat the competition on price, but with some of their dealers taking the piss on pricing it really doesn't do much for the brand image. It's probably smart that AP Honda chose not to announce an MSRP for the new CRF250L. This way the Honda customers don't know how badly they're getting gouged by their dealer...

[strollling]

The MSRP was perhaps a "great price", but how many dealers ever sold the bike at the AP Honda MSRP?

Many.

taking the piss on pricing it really doesn't do much for the brand image.

That's completely true. Just look how Kawasaki Australia had to lower their over-priced product by $1500 when the better CBR250R was released. The monopoly was over and they couldn't be seen to rape the customer any more. Pity Thai Kawasaki are too stubborn to offer price flexibility, or even fair prices on some of their over-priced products.

Is it true that the KLX (built in Thailand) is cheaper in America than in Thailand?

Edited May 12, 2012 by strollling

[taninthai]

Ah the old fish scale test. Another Dave_Boo invention?

Have you ever ridden a bike a dirt bike? (Riding the Ninjette into the sugar cane doesn't count)

BTW, how many people did it take to get your Ninjette out of the ditch? I seem you recall you couldn't do it by yourself and the Ninjette is a pretty light bike...

You keep pretending weight doesn't matter; it seems you have a rather short memory

... says the man who got a heat stroke from making video at Bo Din. I guess he fears getting a heart attack on the Crf because the bike is too heavy for him

Lmfao ........Perhaps he can take a little umbrella next time so he can stand in the shade while filming.......lol

[dave_boo]

Ah the old fish scale test. Another Dave_Boo invention?

Have you ever ridden a bike a dirt bike? (Riding the Ninjette into the sugar cane doesn't count)

BTW, how many people did it take to get your Ninjette out of the ditch? I seem you recall you couldn't do it by yourself and the Ninjette is a pretty light bike...

You keep pretending weight doesn't matter; it seems you have a rather short memory

I didn't invent using a lateral scale to determine the forces required...but am flattered that you'd assume I did (or display enough ignorance to assume I did...or be childish enough to bring something like this rather than real discussions...or not be able to comprehend loading forces).

It's been...15-16 years when I had last been on a dirtbike. Of course that was 15 minutes and it was a honking huge Husaberg I was scared to death of even though it was in the extremely flat farmlands of the Great Lakes. My return question for you is why you are trolling yet another Honda thread? Have you ridden both bikes? Do you have the experience on dirtbikes to present yourself as an authority over those who make their livings riding these bikes?

I'm sure you'll produce the picture...but IIRC there was 4 of us (and that counts me who had bruised ribs), thanks by the way for actually trying to help rather than taking pictures!

As stated earlier, we are reminded that weight matters by your post; you realise that now you've had heatstroke once it raises the chance it will happen again? Be careful out there on the man made track you are buzzing around on.

Are you claiming the Honda CB'r' 250 suffers only a 2hp defect next to the Kawasaki Ninjette?

And you call me dishonest?

Neither bike is powerful, but the CB'r' thumper is down on power compared to the Ninjette by about 4hp, not 2!

"This is backed up on the dyno, at least in terms of top-end horsepower, as the Honda produces 22.66 hp at 8600 rpm, while the Kawasaki twists the drum to the tune of 26.34 hp at 11,000 rpm."

Source: http://www.motorcycl...Comparison.aspx

In the real world, this is the result:

[media=]

[/media]

I'm not sure why Dave_Boo brought the high revving twin cylinder Kawasaki Ninjette road bike into the conversation as it doesn't really have any bearing on the topic at hand. For dirtbikes TORQUE is far more important than horsepower.

Let the Good Times ROLL!

T

I implore you to please provide any dyno for Fuel Injected Ninja 250R that makes 4 RWHP more than the CBR. I'm sure you can find plenty of carb'd bikes doing that, but where's the FI ones? The only Thai Ninja dyno that I found had it at ~2 HP more than the CBR's. If you can provide a stock FI Ninja dyno that has more than ~25 HP I will recant; something you are loath to do even when I provide links that what you are posting is factually wrong.

The reason that the weight advantage was brought in was due to the fact that there have been reports that the weight difference is negligible by serious riders. Also pointed out that the threadcrappers don't have a problem with the Ninja getting all of 1 hp for each extra 4 kg, but it's a sin that the CRF gets an extra hp for each extra 1,6 kg.

It's funny that you should mention torque. Did you realise the (derestricted) KLX 250's' is down 10% (1,45 ft-lb) compared to the CBR engine (which I see you are no longer claiming is restricted). A pretty big difference considering that there's only a 3,6% weight difference.

[dave_boo]

"Freedom to offer great prices"? Really?

Not sure what cave you live in, but here in the real world when they released the new CB'r' 250 we witnessed many greedy Honda dealers in Thailand completely ignore the AP Honda MSRP and charge huge markups on the new 250cc thumper.

The MSRP was perhaps a "great price", but how many dealers ever sold the bike at the AP Honda MSRP?

So far we see with the CRF250L the same pattern of price gouging that occurred with the CB'r' 250. Some greedy Honda dealers are trying to charge as much as 150k baht for the new CRF250L. (Compared to the fixed price of 152500 Baht for the Kawasaki KLX250).

With these cheap new 250's Honda can certainly beat the competition on price, but with some of their dealers taking the piss on pricing it really doesn't do much for the brand image. It's probably smart that AP Honda chose not to announce an MSRP for the new CRF250L. This way the Honda customers don't know how badly they're getting gouged by their dealer...

I find it awful similar to how Red Baron can import new bikes from abroad, pay all the duties and taxes, and still undercut Kawasaki...at least with APe Honda's setup you have the option to shop around. Kawasaki's prices that exceed an importers are set in stone and purchasers either get raped with a restricted model or go the RB route and get less of a warranty for a 'real' Kawasaki.

I'm not defending either practise; however I would rather let market forces decide (which they have demonstrated in the CBR's instance) as the less distasteful options.

[BigBikeBKK]

"Freedom to offer great prices"? Really?

Not sure what cave you live in, but here in the real world when they released the new CB'r' 250 we witnessed many greedy Honda dealers in Thailand completely ignore the AP Honda MSRP and charge huge markups on the new 250cc thumper.

The MSRP was perhaps a "great price", but how many dealers ever sold the bike at the AP Honda MSRP?

So far we see with the CRF250L the same pattern of price gouging that occurred with the CB'r' 250. Some greedy Honda dealers are trying to charge as much as 150k baht for the new CRF250L. (Compared to the fixed price of 152500 Baht for the Kawasaki KLX250).

With these cheap new 250's Honda can certainly beat the competition on price, but with some of their dealers taking the piss on pricing it really doesn't do much for the brand image. It's probably smart that AP Honda chose not to announce an MSRP for the new CRF250L. This way the Honda customers don't know how badly they're getting gouged by their dealer...

I find it awful similar to how Red Baron can import new bikes from abroad, pay all the duties and taxes, and still undercut Kawasaki...at least with APe Honda's setup you have the option to shop around. Kawasaki's prices that exceed an importers are set in stone and purchasers either get raped with a restricted model or go the RB route and get less of a warranty for a 'real' Kawasaki.

I'm not defending either practise; however I would rather let market forces decide (which they have demonstrated in the CBR's instance) as the less distasteful options.

What Kawasaki motorcycle can you buy at Red Baron for less than what Kawasaki, Thailand charges?

Answer: None

Red Baron doesn't import any of the Kawasaki models that are sold by Kawasaki, Thailand.

They sure do undercut AP Honda though!

Red Baron sells the 2012 Honda Goldwing for 1,280,000 Baht

AP Honda price is 1,539,000 Baht!

Red Baron sells the US Spec CBR1000RR for 680k Baht

AP Honda sells the RESTRICTED CBR1000RR for 799k Baht

I guess these are the "great prices" that sTROLLing was talking about?

Way to go Red Baron!

[wantan]

Yes, the Honda Crf 250L is an awesome bike. But what are these strange guys here talking about?

[taninthai]

took my down the local track to have look around todAY

its got a little overgrown the green mound to the right is supposed to be jump

the thai owner also has a flat atv track there which he said i can use whenever i like to practice so will give it a go in a couple of days

alittle shot off the rear end seems this is as good as i can get it to look until they start bringing out some aftermarket bits

had mine up to an indicated 135 today with a gps reading of 125 have previously seen 140 indicated but to many cars on road today..

Just reposted this as it seems to be last on topic post lost in a pile off junk.

As you van see crf hits 140 km/r standard straight out the box to help people compare and make decision on which to buy let's stick to facts so crf 140 km/r for klx I have heard 115 km/r

[Bung]

I think something is being lost here. The KLX is restricted. For whatever reason it is done is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Honda - as far as I can tell - is not restricted in the same way.

It is unfair to compare the CRF with what the KLX does until it has the restriction lifted. It is as easy as sticking a paper clip in at at the dealer before you ride away.

What does a KLX do with this restriction lifted?

It is a simple matter to bridge out a set of wires on a plug at the clutch lever to de restrict the KLX.

Don't you think in fairness any comparisons should be made with a de restricted KLX? Also readings need to be done with a GPS as it has already been pointed out that the speedo on both bikes are out. The CRF does not do 140 KPH.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Bung

[mjj]

The way this thread is panning out I think there are going to be gangs of klx and crf riders fighting each other.

It will be like the mods and rockers, only more!!

[RidersCorner]

Ally took the CRF to Doi Tai yesterday - she did a write-up for us

[Bung]

Well, I am having a mate go and put a deposit on a CRF today while they are on promotion. I will be back in Thailand in a couple of weeks and can try both the KLX and CRF out. If I don't like the CRF I should be able to get my deposit back or sell it as the prices will have risen by then.

A mate who owns a KLX just rode his new CRF home and was vey impressed with the speed and smoothness of it and he knows his bikes so that is promising.

Skyped another mate who also bought one and he showed me the very comprehensive brochure with all the bling in it, that is good as well. Looks like you can get all the bits to make it look like the hot one on the first page of this thread right from the dealer.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Bung

[Bung]

took my down the local track to have look around todAY

its got a little overgrown the green mound to the right is supposed to be jump

the thai owner also has a flat atv track there which he said i can use whenever i like to practice so will give it a go in a couple of days

alittle shot off the rear end seems this is as good as i can get it to look until they start bringing out some aftermarket bits

had mine up to an indicated 135 today with a gps reading of 125 have previously seen 140 indicated but to many cars on road today..

Is that tail tidy out of the CRF catalogue? That looks great, and will save having to buy one aftermarket. I guess the wiring just plugged in?

[Big Guns]

Honda list a few extra bits you can buy

http://www.aphonda.co.th/product/2012/crf250L/part.asp

[strollling]

That's one nice looking bike Taninthai.

So 10% more torque, when the KLX has been de-restricted!

About 8% (?) more HP.

And only 3.6% heavier, which will likely be lost when putting on a slip-on if the cat is in the muffler.

Far superior rear view when road riding. A great price point.

A clear victor! Well done Honda yet again! Take a bow.

Edited May 13, 2012 by strollling