Thongsook College

[Loaded]

^ Thanks.

The BA TESOL is probably an attachment to the college's original licence. The attachment's registration is identified by a series of numbers and letters written in Thai. That's what you need to give to the MoE.

And the MoE respond and give accreditation by?

(stamped document? Course License Number? etc.??)

A piece of paper with all of that. You can frame it if you want to.

[Baytur]

^ Sorry, I think there's some confusion... I was on about how the MoE/CHE give accreditation to a particular course (like the BA TESOL) once they have approved and accredited it?

So TSC should have an official document from the MoE/CHE that's been stamped, and given an official license number for this particular BA?

Does every degree course has a specific accreditation/licensing number, that's given once it has been approved?

[Loaded]

^ Sorry, I think there's some confusion... I was on about how the MoE/CHE give accreditation to a particular course (like the BA TESOL) once they have approved and accredited it?

So TSC should have an official document from the MoE/CHE that's been stamped, and given an official license number for this particular BA?

Does every degree course has a specific accreditation/licensing number, that's given once it has been approved?

As I understand things, and my experience was a few years ago, the curriculum for a course such as the BA TESOL needs to be approved by the MoE. When approved, a letter is issued by the local MoE office that gives a registration/accreditation number. If curriculum are approved as part of the original school license application, they are part of the original school license document. I have absolutely no reason to doubt Bruce has approval for this course. I imagine though that the documents are held by Thongsook College which makes it very difficult for Bruce to walk in and photocopy them or even obtain registration numbers. I think he should though and publicize on his website because people are going to continue asking these questions otherwise.

[thaicbr]

^ Sorry, I think there's some confusion... I was on about how the MoE/CHE give accreditation to a particular course (like the BA TESOL) once they have approved and accredited it?

So TSC should have an official document from the MoE/CHE that's been stamped, and given an official license number for this particular BA?

Does every degree course has a specific accreditation/licensing number, that's given once it has been approved?

As I understand things, and my experience was a few years ago, the curriculum for a course such as the BA TESOL needs to be approved by the MoE. When approved, a letter is issued by the local MoE office that gives a registration/accreditation number. If curriculum are approved as part of the original school license application, they are part of the original school license document. I have absolutely no reason to doubt Bruce has approval for this course. I imagine though that the documents are held by Thongsook College which makes it very difficult for Bruce to walk in and photocopy them or even obtain registration numbers. I think he should though and publicize on his website because people are going to continue asking these questions otherwise.

It is to their benefit to make this course as transparent as possible. Its the vague nature of the guarantees of being accredited that rather spoils the whole concept. Because let's face it if it not accredited correctly then the TCT will not accept it and you will have no chance of waiver extensions based on this course.

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[Baytur]

^^ Thanks very much, now we're getting places.

As I understand things, and my experience was a few years ago, the curriculum for a course such as the BA TESOL needs to be approved by the MoE. When approved, a letter is issued by the local MoE office that gives a registration/accreditation number. If curriculum are approved as part of the original school license application, they are part of the original school license document.

Looking forward to this info regarding Thongsuk College's International Program's BA TESOL.

Can you comment on any of that Bruce? Or anybody else?

btw, does an accredited Uni/College have to get more accreditation when opening up an 'International Program'?

I believe this is a new program by TSC, would they have had to get further accreditation to open up an IP, or can any college in Thailand just open one up and not have to get it specially accredited?

Edited May 24, 2012 by Baytur

[thequietman]

To loaded:

Thongsook was accredited in 1995. its not a new college.

According to the rule book, after the AC submits the program to the CHE, the CHE has 60 days to make any comments. If they do not make any comments the degree automatically becomes official in 60 days.

We went through this process 6 months ago already and they asked us to clarify a few points. It was then submitted again to the AC and UC and resubmitted. The CHE rarely makes any big changes once a degree program has gone through all the steps necessary. But they may make some minor changes and adjust a few things in cooperation with the university.

According to the rules, as soon as the UC approve a degree it can be marketed and the program can begin accepting students. We did not do so the first time through as a precaution. We waited until the initial changes were made and went back through the process.

Thanks for a clear answer.

Clear answer !

where in this response does it confirm beyond any doubt, the course IS CHE approved and acredited by the Thai MOE ?

the answer couldn't be any more vague if he tried.

[brucetefl]

Loaded I believe you are confusing the process necessary from a 15/1 (Basic Education) or 15/2 (APACE) school and a university. They are similar but also vastly different. For instance, no degree program is submitted to the LOCAL MOE. it all goes to CHE. Universities are given much more authority and control than 15/1 and 15/2 schools.

I have explained the process in detail. There is nothing more I can do.

^ Sorry, I think there's some confusion... I was on about how the MoE/CHE give accreditation to a particular course (like the BA TESOL) once they have approved and accredited it?

So TSC should have an official document from the MoE/CHE that's been stamped, and given an official license number for this particular BA?

Does every degree course has a specific accreditation/licensing number, that's given once it has been approved?

As I understand things, and my experience was a few years ago, the curriculum for a course such as the BA TESOL needs to be approved by the MoE. When approved, a letter is issued by the local MoE office that gives a registration/accreditation number. If curriculum are approved as part of the original school license application, they are part of the original school license document. I have absolutely no reason to doubt Bruce has approval for this course. I imagine though that the documents are held by Thongsook College which makes it very difficult for Bruce to walk in and photocopy them or even obtain registration numbers. I think he should though and publicize on his website because people are going to continue asking these questions otherwise.

Edited May 24, 2012 by brucetefl

[thaicbr]

Loaded I believe you are confusing the process necessary from a 15/1 (Basic Education) or 15/2 (APACE) school and a university. They are similar but also vastly different. For instance, no degree program is submitted to the LOCAL MOE. it all goes to CHE. Universities are given much more authority and control than 15/1 and 15/2 schools.

I have explained the process in detail. There is nothing more I can do.

^ Sorry, I think there's some confusion... I was on about how the MoE/CHE give accreditation to a particular course (like the BA TESOL) once they have approved and accredited it?

So TSC should have an official document from the MoE/CHE that's been stamped, and given an official license number for this particular BA?

Does every degree course has a specific accreditation/licensing number, that's given once it has been approved?

As I understand things, and my experience was a few years ago, the curriculum for a course such as the BA TESOL needs to be approved by the MoE. When approved, a letter is issued by the local MoE office that gives a registration/accreditation number. If curriculum are approved as part of the original school license application, they are part of the original school license document. I have absolutely no reason to doubt Bruce has approval for this course. I imagine though that the documents are held by Thongsook College which makes it very difficult for Bruce to walk in and photocopy them or even obtain registration numbers. I think he should though and publicize on his website because people are going to continue asking these questions otherwise.

There is nothing more you can do!!!! Really?

I would have thought that considering it's your business venture. That addressing customers considerations would be high on-the list.

A simple letter from accreditation authoritys CONFIRMING the course accreditation is all people are asking for. Surely not to difficult to achieve.

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[aidenai]

This is really getting interesting. The two main posters to this thread at this point of time are brucetefl and Baytur.

Brucetefl signed up today at 10:37 h and Baytur today at 11:13 h.

What a coincidence.

[aidenai]

I would recommend anyone check out the thread on thailandteaching.asia

and here's another link where you can listen to an interview with brucetefl.

thailandteaching.asia/podcasts-lounge/13506-bruce-tefl-international-does-podcast-makaveli.html

[thaicbr]

This is really getting interesting. The two main posters to this thread at this point of time are brucetefl and Baytur.

Brucetefl signed up today at 10:37 h and Baytur today at 11:13 h.

What a coincidence.

To be fair I found this thread at the same time.

Only because someone referenced it on the other teaching forum.

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[brucetefl]

So its your theory that I am baytur?

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid discussion forums.

[thaicbr]

So its your theory that I am baytur?

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid discussion forums.

Bruce. Why don't you answer the questions with clear transparent answers rather than getting your knickers in a twist about forums.

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[brucetefl]

I have answered the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

If anyone wants to discuss this further go read the thread on thailandteaching.asia

So its your theory that I am baytur?

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid discussion forums.

Bruce. Why don't you answer the questions with clear transparent answers rather than getting your knickers in a twist about forums.

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[thaicbr]

I have answered the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

If anyone wants to discuss this further go read the thread on thailandteaching.asia

So its your theory that I am baytur?

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid discussion forums.

Bruce. Why don't you answer the questions with clear transparent answers rather than getting your knickers in a twist about forums.

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Really! Well you obviously have not done a very good job of it because I CAN NOT recall seeing a post where you confirm that you have written confirmation from the MOE (or dept therein) with your course accreditation. And I have asked several times in various ways so you would understand.

We have all read that according to a handbook translated from Thai to English that if the CHE do not ask any further questions within a given time period it is automatically granted accreditation.

Personally having lived in Thailand for a number of years and I just do not buy into this. The Thai bureaucratic system dictates that a rubber stamp (or 7) NEED TO BE USED.

And letters need to be sent out for record keeping or in fact framing and putting on the wall in stated bureaucratic practice.

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[brucetefl]

If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

[thaicbr]

If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

Again no answer. Are my questions unanswerable?

Again.

Does your course have a verifiable accreditation from the Ministry of Education. If so can you provide that to prospective candidates?

It really is a simply question to answer if you have the accreditation.

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Edited May 24, 2012 by thaicbr

[brucetefl]

If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

It really is a simply question to answer if you have the accreditation.

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And I have answered at least 50 times.

YES

[thaicbr]

If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

It really is a simply question to answer if you have the accreditation.

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And I have answered at least 50 times.

YES

Ummm yes what?

That you have the MOE ACCREDITATION in writing?

Or that you have nothing in writing just an excerpt from a rule book saying that maybe possibly only on Wednesday when there is a full moon we might have accreditation

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[brucetefl]

I quoted your question. Its just before my answer.

Obviously some people are legitimately interested and enthusiastic about this program and have had reasonable and legitimate questions. Some, not so much. Honestly I think the people who are so unconvinced would simply be more trouble than they are worth, complaining and questioning everything. I and the other participants are probably better off if they do not join.

If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

It really is a simply question to answer if you have the accreditation.

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And I have answered at least 50 times.

YES

Ummm yes what?

That you have the MOE ACCREDITATION in writing?

Or that you have nothing in writing just an excerpt from a rule book saying that maybe possibly only on Wednesday when there is a full moon we might have accreditation

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[thaicbr]

Actually you did not quote the question at all.

So here goes again. Please note the question marks this time.

"Do you have the BA tesol course accreditation in writing from the THAI Ministry of Education. And is it available for prospective customers to view "

Please note its a 2 part question. Thanks

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[brucetefl]

And as I have also said at least 10 times, the process calls for us to submit the program to the CHE and they are under no obligation to respond. They responded to the first submission with questions. We made changes and resubmitted and are now legally operating the course. If they do eventually send us some documentation, and I have no idea if they do or not (its not mentioned in the CHE rules), we do not have it.

If this is not acceptable to anyone I suggest you wait for a future date to join the course. We already have a strong interest in the program and we plan to cap it at 30 this first term.

Actually you did not quote the question at all.

So here goes again. Please note the question marks this time.

"Do you have the BA tesol course accreditation in writing from the THAI Ministry of Education. And is it available for prospective customers to view "

Please note its a 2 part question. Thanks

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[thaicbr]

And as I have also said at least 10 times, the process calls for us to submit the program to the CHE and they are under no obligation to respond. They responded to the first submission with questions. We made changes and resubmitted and are now legally operating the course. If they do eventually send us some documentation, and I have no idea if they do or not (its not mentioned in the CHE rules), we do not have it.

If this is not acceptable to anyone I suggest you wait for a future date to join the course. We already have a strong interest in the program and we plan to cap it at 30 this first term.

Actually you did not quote the question at all.

So here goes again. Please note the question marks this time.

"Do you have the BA tesol course accreditation in writing from the THAI Ministry of Education. And is it available for prospective customers to view "

Please note its a 2 part question. Thanks

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OK. So you have no written confirmation from the Thai MOE that this course is in fact accredited. OK thanks for finally answering . good night

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[brucetefl]

I only explained the process in detail SEVERAL times. I thought it was already very clear. I think most of the people reading this thread would agree.

Dare I suggest that none of the "experts" questioning this program and especially you, thaicbr, have ever actually developed a BA program in Thailand? It seems very obvious none have, at least under the current rules.

[thaicbr]

I only explained the process in detail SEVERAL times. I thought it was already very clear. I think most of the people reading this thread would agree.

Dare I suggest that none of the "experts" questioning this program and especially you, thaicbr, have ever actually developed a BA program in Thailand? It seems very obvious none have, at least under the current rules.

That's exactly why we ask questions. You seem to be forgetting we are the customers giving you our hard earned money (you are the expert). We want. NO

NEED to know that you have done the process correctly. Without seeing documents from the relevant authority that have been submitted to you.

How can we be certain.

You have admitted this is new to you as well.. these questions are not personal ... its just business.

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[brucetefl]

Can you tell me when i asked you for money? in fact I have told everyone not to even bother to pay until after the Open House on the 2nd.

And I have answered these questions many times and given detailed descriptions of the current status of the program. There is a defined process. I did not create it. i just follow it. it may not be what you like or want. I have no control over that. I can only follow the process and that is exactly what I and my colleagues at Thongsook have done.

But any time you publicly question someones honesty, multiple times, its personal. There is no other way to spin it.

Edited May 24, 2012 by brucetefl

[thaicbr]

Can you tell me when i asked you for money? in fact I have told everyone not to even bother to pay until after the Open House on the 2nd.

And I have answered these questions many times and given detailed descriptions of the current status of the program. There is a defined process. I did not create it. i just follow it. it may not be what you like or want. I have no control over that. I can only follow the process and that is exactly what I and my colleagues at Thongsook have done.

But any time you publicly question someones honesty, multiple times, its personal. There is no other way to spin it.

So you will have more information available about the accredited status at the open house .. well why did you not say that.

And off course the applicants will have to pay for the course. Deposits. Course fees etc.

I have NOT called you a liar. I have stated that I do not believe the way the course has been supposedly accredited as you have no confirmation in writing. This is Thailand everything gets stamped and triplicated. My disbelief is aimed at your statements not yourself.

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[brucetefl]

I have no idea if I will have any additional info about accreditation at the open house. i have not been hiding anything. I doubt anything new will come up between now and then. But I will be able to repeat the same procedure again if anyone wants to hear it.

"I have NOT called you a liar. I have stated that I do not believe the way the course has been supposedly accredited as you have no confirmation in writing. This is Thailand everything gets stamped and triplicated. My disbelief is aimed at your statements not yourself."

I had a good laugh at this one. I am not calling you a liar. I just think what you are saying is untrue. its not you, it what you are telling me!

LOL

ok

Can you tell me when i asked you for money? in fact I have told everyone not to even bother to pay until after the Open House on the 2nd.

And I have answered these questions many times and given detailed descriptions of the current status of the program. There is a defined process. I did not create it. i just follow it. it may not be what you like or want. I have no control over that. I can only follow the process and that is exactly what I and my colleagues at Thongsook have done.

But any time you publicly question someones honesty, multiple times, its personal. There is no other way to spin it.

So you will have more information available about the accredited status at the open house .. well why did you not say that.

And off course the applicants will have to pay for the course. Deposits. Course fees etc.

I have NOT called you a liar. I have stated that I do not believe the way the course has been supposedly accredited as you have no confirmation in writing. This is Thailand everything gets stamped and triplicated. My disbelief is aimed at your statements not yourself.

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[brucetefl]

By the way, how many students at ABAC, Chula or even at other programs at Thongsook ask to see the actual CHE approval document?

Thats right. None.

Please do not argue this fact. If a Thai person walke into the university and demanded to see what you are asking to see they would be laughed out of the office (and thats if they were lucky).

In fact, when I ask my colleagues at Thngsook for some documentation they will all think the same thing:

farang yoong yaak

[thaicbr]

By the way, how many students at ABAC, Chula or even at other programs at Thongsook ask to see the actual CHE approval document?

Thats right. None.

Please do not argue this fact. If a Thai person walke into the university and demanded to see what you are asking to see they would be laughed out of the office (and thats if they were lucky).

In fact, when I ask my colleagues at Thngsook for some documentation they will all think the same thing:

farang yoong yaak

Bruce. I wish you and the applicants the best of luck on this course.

As you have stated its not for me. It would seem I ask to many questions.

also if it seemed as if I was calling you a liar. I do apologize. Its the system were the CHE approve and accredite a degree course that i find hard to believe.

I would presume that at the minimum Thongsook college will put confirmation of the course being accredited in writing.

Good luck.

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