How Hard Are You Prepared To Work . . .

[zzaa09]

Are you prepared to learn the language in a country where, regardless of what date your visa displays, a falling out with the "wrong" Thai couldpotentially have you on a plane out of the Kingdom.

Maybe if the OP spoke Thai he'd be able to communicate a little better with Thais and avoid the confrontation he seeming fears.

Exactly - would the OP accept foreigners in his country if they couldn't be bothered to learn the language.

As the locals say here - kor sing suk sid hai kwam sa ngop gae ka, hai yom rap sing tee plian mai dai, hai glaa plian sing tee plian dai, lae panhaa tee ja yaek yae.

This is simple Thai language that probably many foreigners who have been here years can't understand.

Which translates to something like " may holy things give me serenity to accept things I can't change, courage to change things I can and wisdom to differentiate between the two".

When people got to live in other countries, learning the language is a priority. Some expats here seem to think otherwise and, of course, the consequence of this is that they can't understand many things, not only the language.

Well said!

Securing some vague fluency in the language will certainly be a conduit for connecting and understanding.

We shouldn't be surprised at the almost embarrassing large number of "long-timers" that couldn't be bothered nor attempt at any such effort......

Sad circumstances.

[HardenedSoul]

Is the OP talking about "accepted" or "respected?" Some of the things you talk about, such as learning the language and respecting the culture, those things certainly will endear you to the Thais. Having good manners, being good natured, even temperament, behaving in a dignified way, dressing appropriately, etc., will also gain respect. The IPhone thing is completely irrelevant. Not even if you travel in hi-so circles does anyone really give a rats-ass what phone you use or what watch you wear. Get serious. The only people who might care are the newly minted Isaan princesses who've suddenly married into wealth (in their eyes).

Might be more reflective of the vacany of knowledge towards the Thai culture, yet pretending they do. That's even more detrimental for the individual.

Where's the "ignore" button

[Ulysses G.]

This is simple Thai language that probably many foreigners who have been here years can't understand.

Which translates to something like " may holy things give me serenity to accept things I can't change, courage to change things I can and wisdom to differentiate between the two".

Total nonsense.

This is not "simple Thai language" ,

Good call.

[theblether]

I think there is a difference between working to be accepted and trying ingratiate yourself, too many people living in Thailand become apologists and virtually fold away their self respect so that they can hold on to the fantasy that they are accepted.

I reckon your better off living life to your own standards, and if you find that they conflict with the Thai people in your life then either change the group your interact with or go home.

That does not mean that you can ignore cultural differences, but you should not ignore your instincts and upbringing too.

eg As to the OP, It's no skin off your nose to dress smartly and conduct yourself curteously,.......however if you ignore your instincts in this country you will very often that it's not the skin off your nose you need to worry about, but the shirt off your back.

[IanForbes]

I won't work at all to be accepted by anyone, no matter what the gender, nationality or colour. I just treat everyone with respect until they lose it for me. Then I just ignore them. I don't give a dam_n what anyone thinks or cares about. If they get too difficult or manipulative I just move along.

[Berkshire]

I won't work at all to be accepted by anyone, no matter what the gender, nationality or colour. I just treat everyone with respect until they lose it for me. Then I just ignore them. I don't give a dam_n what anyone thinks or cares about. If they get too difficult or manipulative I just move along.

Honestly, Ian, when someone says that they "don't care what anyone thinks..." I automatically assume that they care too much. We all care, that's what makes us social creatures. The only one that doesn't care is the bushman who lives alone out in the bush. But i admire that you try to "treat everyone with respect." That's all that matters.

[theblether]

I won't work at all to be accepted by anyone, no matter what the gender, nationality or colour. I just treat everyone with respect until they lose it for me. Then I just ignore them. I don't give a dam_n what anyone thinks or cares about. If they get too difficult or manipulative I just move along.

Honestly, Ian, when someone says that they "don't care what anyone thinks..." I automatically assume that they care too much. We all care, that's what makes us social creatures. The only one that doesn't care is the bushman who lives alone out in the bush. But i admire that you try to "treat everyone with respect." That's all that matters.

The word respect is the operative word........too many people lose touch with their self respect......they forget who they are and bend, ( and often snap ) in Thailand under a relentless tide of BS disguised as culture.

[onionluke]

If you just arrived from another planet and read this thread you could be forgiven for thinking that Thailand was inhabited by phsycopaths .

[zzaa09]

I won't work at all to be accepted by anyone, no matter what the gender, nationality or colour. I just treat everyone with respect until they lose it for me. Then I just ignore them. I don't give a dam_n what anyone thinks or cares about. If they get too difficult or manipulative I just move along.

Honestly, Ian, when someone says that they "don't care what anyone thinks..." I automatically assume that they care too much. We all care, that's what makes us social creatures. The only one that doesn't care is the bushman who lives alone out in the bush. But i admire that you try to "treat everyone with respect." That's all that matters.

The word respect is the operative word........too many people lose touch with their self respect......they forget who they are and bend, ( and often snap ) in Thailand under a relentless tide of BS disguised as culture.

This often applies and manages to work when seeing them as inferior.

[Johnniey]

As the locals say here - kor sing suk sid hai kwam sa ngop gae ka, hai yom rap sing tee plian mai dai, hai glaa plian sing tee plian dai, lae panhaa tee ja yaek yae.

This is simple Thai language that probably many foreigners who have been here years can't understand.

Which translates to something like " may holy things give me serenity to accept things I can't change, courage to change things I can and wisdom to differentiate between the two".

Total nonsense.

This is not "simple Thai language" , much less anything even approximating what "locals say here"; it's just a simplistic translation of the Serenity Prayer by Karl Paul Reinhold Niebuhr into Cod Thai.

The original is :

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

Courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.

I suggest you do not try to contribute to Threads unless you know what you are talking about.

Patrick

Edit : and by the way it's not "panhaa" which in Thai is ปัญหา meaning problem, it's "phanyaa" ปัญญา meaning wisdom or intelligence.

Patrick

Oh, I apologize - my Thai reading skills are not perfect. The words are very similar - easy to misread. Would you rather I typed the Thai version I have? You can read it but nost here couldn't.

Actually, around these parts I hear "kor sing sid ....."very often. Granted, the rest is usually different,

Actually there's a lot of controversy about who wrote the 'serenity prayer'

- there are attributions ranging from Aristotle to St. Augustine to St. Francis of Assissi.

Karl Paul Reinhold Niebuhr was NOT the first to say this. From my university days, I seem to remember Epictetus saying a similar thing over 2000 years ago.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Johnniey

[KeyserSoze01]

Are you prepared to learn the language in a country where, regardless of what date your visa displays, a falling out with the "wrong" Thai couldpotentially have you on a plane out of the Kingdom.

Maybe if the OP spoke Thai he'd be able to communicate a little better with Thais and avoid the confrontation he seeming fears.

Exactly - would the OP accept foreigners in his country if they couldn't be bothered to learn the language.

As the locals say here - kor sing suk sid hai kwam sa ngop gae ka, hai yom rap sing tee plian mai dai, hai glaa plian sing tee plian dai, lae panhaa tee ja yaek yae.

This is simple Thai language that probably many foreigners who have been here years can't understand.

Which translates to something like " may holy things give me serenity to accept things I can't change, courage to change things I can and wisdom to differentiate between the two".

When people got to live in other countries, learning the language is a priority. Some expats here seem to think otherwise and, of course, the consequence of this is that they can't understand many things, not only the language.

Well said!

Securing some vague fluency in the language will certainly be a conduit for connecting and understanding.

We shouldn't be surprised at the almost embarrassing large number of "long-timers" that couldn't be bothered nor attempt at any such effort......

Sad circumstances.

Nothing unique to Thailand in this respect. I know of immigrants who have lived in their adopted countries for over 30 years and don't speak a word of the native tongue. They seem to get by just fine and no one derides them for their choice. Of course they would most likely be more integrated into their new country if they learned the language, but never really had the need or desire. Does that make them bad people?

[simon43]

I just get on with my life, treat Thais and foreigners as equal, and find that I'm accepted by both without issue. (although it does help to speak some Thai)

Simon

[IanForbes]

I won't work at all to be accepted by anyone, no matter what the gender, nationality or colour. I just treat everyone with respect until they lose it for me. Then I just ignore them. I don't give a dam_n what anyone thinks or cares about. If they get too difficult or manipulative I just move along.

Honestly, Ian, when someone says that they "don't care what anyone thinks..." I automatically assume that they care too much. We all care, that's what makes us social creatures. The only one that doesn't care is the bushman who lives alone out in the bush. But i admire that you try to "treat everyone with respect." That's all that matters.

No, I actually meant what I said. Certainly I care what my friends and family think of me, but even they have to earn the right to be cared about. I don't look down at anyone or up to anyone, and I treat everyone as an equal, and with the respect they deserve. We are all products of our environment and that makes a difference, but it doesn't make anyone better or worse... just more or less fortunate. However, if someone disrespects me then I no longer care what they think one way or another. They are beneath my contempt and not even worth bothering about anymore than a mosquito or biting insect.

[travelmann]

Are you prepared to learn the language in a country where, regardless of what date your visa displays, a falling out with the "wrong" Thai couldpotentially have you on a plane out of the Kingdom.

Maybe if the OP spoke Thai he'd be able to communicate a little better with Thais and avoid the confrontation he seeming fears.

Exactly - would the OP accept foreigners in his country if they couldn't be bothered to learn the language.

As the locals say here - kor sing suk sid hai kwam sa ngop gae ka, hai yom rap sing tee plian mai dai, hai glaa plian sing tee plian dai, lae panhaa tee ja yaek yae.

This is simple Thai language that probably many foreigners who have been here years can't understand.

Which translates to something like " may holy things give me serenity to accept things I can't change, courage to change things I can and wisdom to differentiate between the two".

When people got to live in other countries, learning the language is a priority. Some expats here seem to think otherwise and, of course, the consequence of this is that they can't understand many things, not only the language.

Well said!

Securing some vague fluency in the language will certainly be a conduit for connecting and understanding.

We shouldn't be surprised at the almost embarrassing large number of "long-timers" that couldn't be bothered nor attempt at any such effort......

Sad circumstances.

have you ever considered some people might actually find it very difficult to learn?

[Felt 35]

anyone or anything in your life that you can't walk away from in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat coming around the corner"?

30 second gets short but 30 hour and I`m on the go if needed

[PattaniMan]

The word respect is the operative word........too many people lose touch with their self respect......they forget who they are and bend, ( and often snap ) in Thailand under a relentless tide of BS disguised as culture.

Excellent post.

And so very very true.

[nocturn]

ive never really given it any thought

[PoodMaiDai]

We will never, ever be truly accepted by them.

Forget the fact they copy our style, want white skin, and our mixed children dominate their entertainment, we will always be "falang" to them regardless of how well you speak the language and if some of them call you "Pi." Because when you're not around, you're just "falang."

And no, I will not do anything to make them happy. They can take me as I am or leave me. Doesn't matter to me either way. What language I learn and what little I learn of their backward ways, is for me.

[PoodMaiDai]

I think there is a difference between working to be accepted and trying ingratiate yourself, too many people living in Thailand become apologists and virtually fold away their self respect so that they can hold on to the fantasy that they are accepted.

Great post. I know way too many living like that.

[zzaa09]

We will never, ever be truly accepted by them.

Forget the fact they copy our style, want white skin, and our mixed children dominate their entertainment, we will always be "falang" to them regardless of how well you speak the language and if some of them call you "Pi." Because when you're not around, you're just "falang."

And no, I will not do anything to make them happy. They can take me as I am or leave me. Doesn't matter to me either way. What language I learn and what little I learn of their backward ways, is for me.

You'll fit in right nicely here at TV.

[Sharp]

Bottom line , you will never bee accepted as a Thai , You maybe tolerated but as soon as the sh.. hits the fan you are a Falang.

I been here 20 yrs and this comment is spot on from my experience .

[Sharp]

[quote name=PattaniMan'

timestamp='1328345787' post='5029220]

The word respect is the operative word........too many people lose touch with their self respect......they forget who they are and bend, ( and often snap ) in Thailand under a relentless tide of BS disguised as culture.

Excellent post.

And so very very true.

+1

[me4175]

Bottom line , you will never bee accepted as a Thai , You maybe tolerated but as soon as the sh.. hits the fan you are a Falang.

+1

Edited February 5, 2012 by IngoDettmar

[thehelmsman]

A couple bottles of Blend works wonders. All this B.S. about repect is pitiful. Maybe it's because of the environment that surrounds you in the area in which you choose to stay. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling good about the way I'm treated. Learning more Thai & Isaan would go a long ways in making life more enjoyable but that's all on me. I don't require special Farang food. I don't mind getting dirty helping with chores.

You only get back as much as you're willing to give. You think too much.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Yes, absolutely critical to having a good life here if you don't have a lot of money.

If you're rich then you can do anything you like, and even if you don't get their true respect, you'll get a reasonable facsimile.

Same for love of course.

[tombkk]

It appears a few concepts are going haywire in this thread.

1. Shopping at Paragon does not give you more respect by Thais than shopping at Tesco. Unless you mix with an overly materialistic crowd, and that would be your choice.

2. Dressing appropriately or inappropriately is a universal concept. If you would go to Harrod's in shorts and flip-flops you would probably do it at Paragon as well. I have problems with that, but not enough to write home about. In fact, my Thai friends wear flip-flops to restaurants where I think proper shoes were more appropriate. When I go to a Thai wedding, I don't dress up in a suit as I would in Europe.

3. Culture and language. Intertwined, these two things: My take is that you cannot learn the language if you don't learn about the culture, and you cannot understand the culture if you don't learn the language. While I speak and read Thai, I know people who have lived hear for 20 years and don't speak any Thai. In my understanding, these people live in ghettos. Their choice.

I think the OP's question is: How much do we want to integrate? We are guests in this country. There are foreigners in our home countries, and we expect them to integrate. In fact, everybody decides for themselves how much they want to integrate. Some people feel happy to speak only English, be loud and buy their way into parties with six-packs of whiskey, others try to be accepted. Yes, I said accepted. Not as a Thai but as a farang in a Thai group, and I have heard often that my friends said to a newcomer "don't worry, he may be a farang but he's OK".

For myself, I enjoy that, while not bending over backwards. I have some ingrained principles, for example I hate it when people come late (just a tiny example). But I adapt to the Thai culture, as they are my hosts:

Check out Hofestede's cultural dimensions. You will find that Thailand has a low Individualism index (IDV), whereas the US (as an example) has a very high one. Simply put, this means that in Thailand the group (family, friends etc) comes first while in the West, the individual comes first. It is therefore understandable that many Westerners have a problem with some of the concepts, and Thais wouldn't understand why some people here said that they don't care what other people think about them.

The other dimension I would like to point out is Power Distance Index (PDI). In Thailand, elders or people of higher rank are respected more, while in the West, the difference is not so important. This is a point where you can earn brownie points if you want - and if you don't want to, you won't do it, as it does not reflect your culture. For example, civil servants are highly respected in Thailand, and I always wonder why people go to immigration in shorts and flip-flops. You will achieve your goal much faster and easier if you conform to these little things, it won't harm you to dress appropriately. ("You" in the sense of the general audience, not a specific poster.)

That's just my personal opinion.

[tombkk]

There is no universal need to be accepted by anyone. What does being in Thailand have to do with it. I couldn't give a toss what people in my own country thought about me and had no desire to be accepted by them, and the same applies in Thailand. I'm equally fine wearing formal gear, as I am wearing shorts and teeshirt - it depends on the weather, my mood and the circustance. I'm as comfortable eating noodles on the street, as I am grabbing a steak in a fine restaurant. I have an iphone because i find it invaluable, not because it marks me as hiso. I shop in Emporium, because my Bkk apartment is very close by, but I equally shop in Big C.

I do try to speak Thai as much as possible, simply because it makes life easier in Thailand.

Nothing to see here . . move on.

[tombkk]

I came to the conclusion that I came from a superior culture to the local one, so, I live by those values.

I learned to speak Thai as I saw that it was in my interests to do so.

You come from a superior culture? Wow. I am speechless.

But I am intrigued: What makes you think so?

[geriatrickid]

With hindsight, perhaps it would've been more appropriate, as Berkshire mentioned, if I had used the word "respected" instead of "accepted". I guess everybody wants to be accepted but for obvious reasons, this is impossible to gain from 100% of the people of any country; even their own. The best one can hope for is to be respected but the means by which this is achieved varies from person to person.

In a country where money is respected above all else irrespective of how it's been acquired, some from countries where outward displays of wealth are often ridiculed, seek to acquire items that leave the locals in no doubt that they have money and, thus, are deserving of respect. I prefer to let good manners and my ability to turn a blind eye to some of the more questionable cultural practices earn respect even though this process is rarely as quick and as blunt as sporting an IWC watch or flashing a set of Porsche keys.

Flaunting wealth is an invitation for;

1. Crime such as robbery, burglary and extortion.

2. Encourages resentment and malicious acts.

3. Encourages the moochers to come calling for money.

If one has to use wealth as a means to invite respect, one is already in a marginal position.

[Semper]

Bottom line , you will never bee accepted as a Thai , You maybe tolerated but as soon as the sh.. hits the fan you are a Falang.

I been here 20 yrs and this comment is spot on from my experience .

As it would be in any other country, including "your own".