How Hard Are You Prepared To Work . . .

[pattayadingo]

It is MY money and my life. Why should I dress to suit them or do anything in particular to impress them? If they do not like me as I am they can take a running jump.

That said, I was brought up to be polite and have etiquette, so I am polite to all Thai people who treat me the same.

[Trembly]

Bottom line , you will never bee accepted as a Thai , You maybe tolerated but as soon as the sh.. hits the fan you are a Falang.

This is the sort of pushing-a-door-that-says-pull that I see farang do with tedious regularity.

It's not because you're a farang as such, it's because most farang are functionally oversized toddlers in Thailand.

As soon as you are able to make yourself taken seriously - for example by speaking enough Thai to interact, give serendipity a chance and develop genuine friends / relationships that can provide avenues of recourse etc, you know, things that most Thais do and have in Thailand - you functionally become an adult. Normal house rules then apply, with the obvious legal caveats*. Once you can actually be taken seriously your "wae you come forrm" becomes irrelevant unless it can be used as an asset. In Thailand your mates are there to help and they don't give a shit about your telephone . . . a bit like friends in other parts of the world really.

To contradict the above would be like saying that a farang can never have true Thai friends, in which case some farang-self-examination may be in order.

*Having said that, Thailand is a country of relationships rather than law, or to put it in other words the primary law here is the law of relationships.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Trembly

[IMA_FARANG]

Well, here's my answer...personal experiences only...others may think I'm crazy.

I've lived with a Thai woman since 1980. She has 3 grown children by her first marriage. I am not married to her, however.

I have supported her and her children for that time by working outside Thailand and visiting her 2 or 3 times a year.

Usuallly 2 or 3 weeks per visit.

About 10 years ago I bought a Thai house for her and her family and had it converted to my standards...with new kitchen, air conditioning upstairs in the bedrooms, cable T.V., internet, etc.

Cost me a total of about $70,000 for the whole deal (cheap by U.S. prices).

I'm retired now and that's where I live with my Thai family.

I do wear flip-flops around and no socks.

I don't wear shorts because i don't like them, long pants for me. Much of my food is Thai food from the little food shop about two houses away. All my Thai neighbors know me and say hello to me when I walk out into the main street from my soi. My Thai wife/girlfriend is still in love with me after 30+ years. Her children still call me "daddy",

I wear shoes when we go outside our area...to stores or restaurants...because that's what feels right to me.

I'm happy living here....but in a pinch...if push came to shove...I'd leave it in a minute without a glance behind.

My point of view...it's not what you have or own that's important...it's what you ARE that's important.

And I know what and who I am.

Edited February 3, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[scorecard]

- In terms of dress. Surely there is an appropriate way to dress, according to the situation, in any culture. Often it would be the same. If it is a bit different, is it so difficult to adjust a little to the local picture? If it's too 'over the top' for anybody then avoid that function etc.

- There are sentitive aspects of all cultures. Let's reverse the situation - would you prefer that Thais (or any other people) be sensitive to some situations if they were in your country? The answer (i hope) is Yes. Surely it works in reverse too.

- Language. In my experience it t does help to try to learn the language or at least the basic everyday conversation skills for travel, shopping etc., in any country, and surely that also includes Thailand. But should it be compulsory? No. Will politely speaking some Thai help to get respect, more attention (because of more clarity) etc.? Yes, but say again, it's not compulsory.

[robblok]

Just come home from some shopping. I parked my bike near some old Thai's. They asked me what i bought. I showed them and we started to chit chat a bit because i understand some Thai. They said they did not have much money and that

Thailand was a poor country and the people were poor. I made a laugh out of it when i said the government is eating your money (gin tang) and they agreed that the government was corrupt. I made some remarks about the flooding and that i was afraid that it would happen again as the government did not even dredged the canals.

They agreed and asked how much water i had in my home i told them not as much as here (where i was shopping it was under 2meters of water). We had some more chit chat and i was on my way.

Am i accepted I... i don't know but i do know there are enough people who are friendly and willing to talk a bit if you understand basic Thai (wish i spoke a lot more) Not all Thais are out to get you. And i think acceptance of people is better outside the tourist area's

[Berkshire]

Is the OP talking about "accepted" or "respected?" Some of the things you talk about, such as learning the language and respecting the culture, those things certainly will endear you to the Thais. Having good manners, being good natured, even temperament, behaving in a dignified way, dressing appropriately, etc., will also gain respect. The IPhone thing is completely irrelevant. Not even if you travel in hi-so circles does anyone really give a rats-ass what phone you use or what watch you wear. Get serious. The only people who might care are the newly minted Isaan princesses who've suddenly married into wealth (in their eyes).

[Ijustwannateach]

Professionally, I work as hard as anywhere else to be accepted. Seems to have the same payback ratio, or even better than some places I've been.

Personally, I try to understand local standards and mores, and at least I am prepared to justify my decisions with reference to those. I try to avoid direct confrontation and criticism of Thais, but I will walk away from abuse. I don't allow the 'groupthink' to pressure me into doing things with which I am not comfortable, but when I can find group occasions enjoyable I will participate.

I do hold Thais individually responsible for their words and behaviour, whether or not they wish to try to excuse themselves through 'culture'.

Overall, I feel I am hitting a happy medium. I am not 'Thaier than Thai', but I can blend in and enjoy Thai life when I choose.

[Johnniey]

Are you prepared to learn the language in a country where, regardless of what date your visa displays, a falling out with the "wrong" Thai couldpotentially have you on a plane out of the Kingdom.

Maybe if the OP spoke Thai he'd be able to communicate a little better with Thais and avoid the confrontation he seeming fears.

Exactly - would the OP accept foreigners in his country if they couldn't be bothered to learn the language.

As the locals say here - kor sing suk sid hai kwam sa ngop gae ka, hai yom rap sing tee plian mai dai, hai glaa plian sing tee plian dai, lae panhaa tee ja yaek yae.

This is simple Thai language that probably many foreigners who have been here years can't understand.

Which translates to something like " may holy things give me serenity to accept things I can't change, courage to change things I can and wisdom to differentiate between the two".

When people got to live in other countries, learning the language is a priority. Some expats here seem to think otherwise and, of course, the consequence of this is that they can't understand many things, not only the language.

[Familyonthemove]

Out of work I dress for comfort, although I still think short-shorts look terrible on a man, especially in Bangkok which is a business city.

I don't do any of this to save face or conform, it just makes my job simpler and set the tone for the team. (And if I wore shorts in the office I'd get frostbite .... what is it with a/c here??).

Just out of curiosity....Are you from the U.K. by chance?

Yes, from the UK, where we used to believe that 'clothes make the man', but now we wear track suits and hoodies every day.

[nocturn]

Since when do the " locals " shop at Emporium and Siam, I would suggest shopping at places like Tesco would be fitting in more with the locals than Emporium which is full of Hi-so's , Chinese , Japanese and the like.

Sure when at work I dress accordingly , nothing to do with fitting in, would do the same back home, as for wearing shorts, well it is quite hot some times and many of the Thais obviously agree as I see many drinking in the local bars wearing tailored shorts. If I was going into town for a big night out then I would dress up a bit, again nothing to do with impressing anybody.

As for learning the language, I am trying but pretty sure I will never impress any local

the emporium? not filled with locals? then who the hell are all those people who live near by i see there every time i go? I wonder who those people at paragon are too.

It really gives me pause the way people on this site bandy about the the term hi-so with out a clue as to what it actually means.

those hi-so's you see in the Emporium are, as a rule, members of Bangkok's very burgeoning middle class. It may surprise you to know that not every Thai with two sticks to rub together is hi-so.

Likewise, the Thais living in condos and driving all the cars you see on the road are NOT all hi-so. They are people who work, consume and procreate just like where you came from.

One would have hoped you would know that as you claim to work here. Unless your colleagues are all hi-so and not local.

Get over the assumption that all 'real' Thais are dirt poor. I does neither you nor Thailand justice.

btw: does the fact that you go to the emporium make you hi-so?

Edited February 3, 2012 by nocturn

[nocturn]

I came to the conclusion that I came from a superior culture to the local one, so, I live by those values.

I learned to speak Thai as I saw that it was in my interests to do so.

Unfortunately you have a Western face , Taking it as you are not from Thailand and not Asian, The problem is education, even the children call you Faland, they grow up being taught to be institutionally racist by the Thai government, and there parents Falang cannot buy land , double pricing, ext, ext.

Faland, it that the countiy farangs come from?

[Jingthing]

How Hard Are You Prepared To Work?

Let's put it this way. I am not even prepared to window shop at the Emporium.

[thaihome]

^{Are you prepared to learn the language in a country where, regardless of what date your visa displays, a falling out with the "wrong" Thai could potentially have you on a plane out of the Kingdom.}

^{This along with the snide comments about iPhone and the Emporium pretty says it all about the OP. Basically a case of raving farang paranoia tinged with a bit of envy.}

^{You don’t have change yourself to be accepted, you just have be a decent person, and the rest just follows along. It does help though to have a good dose of commons sense and tolerance towards things that may different than what you grew up with.}

^TH

Edited February 3, 2012 by thaihome

[bendix]

Sorry but you don't know a thing about me so your flippant remark that I "obviously don't know Thai people and how it works here" won't be dignified with a defensive response.

Except it was, rather, wasn't it?

By the evidence of your posts, your screen ID was poorly chosen.

Edited February 3, 2012 by bendix

[bendix]

There is no universal need to be accepted by anyone. What does being in Thailand have to do with it. I couldn't give a toss what people in my own country thought about me and had no desire to be accepted by them, and the same applies in Thailand. I'm equally fine wearing formal gear, as I am wearing shorts and teeshirt - it depends on the weather, my mood and the circustance. I'm as comfortable eating noodles on the street, as I am grabbing a steak in a fine restaurant. I have an iphone because i find it invaluable, not because it marks me as hiso. I shop in Emporium, because my Bkk apartment is very close by, but I equally shop in Big C.

I do try to speak Thai as much as possible, simply because it makes life easier in Thailand.

Nothing to see here . . move on.

[bendix]

I'm not really sure what rights the OP feels he is lacking, that the Thais enjoy, with the exception of the right to own land (very understandable and easy to justify in my view) and the right to vote, which he can't expect as a non-citizen.

[HardenedSoul]

Typical English attitude.. why learn an other language as there are more people speaking English. If you live in a country where they speak an other language its always useful to speak that language. If your just a tourist.. then don't bother.

Under normal circumstances, I might agree with that assertion but, as I said, my personal feeling is that having few rights and negligible protection under Thailand's legal system makes it look like it's not worth it. If that were to change, however, I'd give serious consideration to learning Thai.

In response to soemone else's question about whether or not I'd tolerate a foreigner's inability to speak English in my country, I'd have to counter with the fact that, in Great Britain, anyone there legally is afforded the full protection of the law and the same rights as a native. Throw the English language's status as the world's international business language into the mix and the case "for" is compelling . . . even more so when one considers that some of those who won't bother are looking for handouts from the welfare system.

Last time I checked, there weren't many foreigners applying for disability benefit from the Thai government.

Then just leave if you don't like your legal situation here. I don't like it either but it does not influence my decision to learn a bit of Thai. I wish i spoke more of it im still learning. The language helps you a lot, but if you don't want to stay here because of the legal situation then indeed its useless.

But if your here for a long period of time i feel it really helps to be able to communicate at least at a basic level with the locals. I have found them to be quite friendly in most cases.

Who on earth said anything about leaving?

I am happy to live here without speaking the language since there are innumerable pros associated with my residence that outweigh the cons of not speaking Thai. How does holding a fairly harmless opinion on the merits of learning to speak Thai translate into a suggestion that I up sticks and dig out?

If I remember correctly, you had a hard time during the flooding and I seem to recall a particularly bitter attitude towards the government over their handling of the run-off situation. Now, maybe I'm wrong (not) but, it seems to me that living in a house deluged with more than a metre of water with a government implementing policies that ensured it remained so could be considered a far deeper grievance than my feelings on the merits of learning to speak Thai.

Still, I don't remember telling you to get on a plane.

[Moonrakers]

I try extremely hard to be accepted because I can't stand all those sleepless nights tossing and turning worrying about it.

Oh wait, that's a lie.

[robblok]

Typical English attitude.. why learn an other language as there are more people speaking English. If you live in a country where they speak an other language its always useful to speak that language. If your just a tourist.. then don't bother.

Under normal circumstances, I might agree with that assertion but, as I said, my personal feeling is that having few rights and negligible protection under Thailand's legal system makes it look like it's not worth it. If that were to change, however, I'd give serious consideration to learning Thai.

In response to soemone else's question about whether or not I'd tolerate a foreigner's inability to speak English in my country, I'd have to counter with the fact that, in Great Britain, anyone there legally is afforded the full protection of the law and the same rights as a native. Throw the English language's status as the world's international business language into the mix and the case "for" is compelling . . . even more so when one considers that some of those who won't bother are looking for handouts from the welfare system.

Last time I checked, there weren't many foreigners applying for disability benefit from the Thai government.

Then just leave if you don't like your legal situation here. I don't like it either but it does not influence my decision to learn a bit of Thai. I wish i spoke more of it im still learning. The language helps you a lot, but if you don't want to stay here because of the legal situation then indeed its useless.

But if your here for a long period of time i feel it really helps to be able to communicate at least at a basic level with the locals. I have found them to be quite friendly in most cases.

Who on earth said anything about leaving?

I am happy to live here without speaking the language since there are innumerable pros associated with my residence that outweigh the cons of not speaking Thai. How does holding a fairly harmless opinion on the merits of learning to speak Thai translate into a suggestion that I up sticks and dig out?

If I remember correctly, you had a hard time during the flooding and I seem to recall a particularly bitter attitude towards the government over their handling of the run-off situation. Now, maybe I'm wrong (not) but, it seems to me that living in a house deluged with more than a metre of water with a government implementing policies that ensured it remained so could be considered a far deeper grievance than my feelings on the merits of learning to speak Thai.

Still, I don't remember telling you to get on a plane.

I am still not happy with the government and how it will handle it next time. Just telling you your life would be a lot easier if you spoke Thai. The leaving part was not meant the way i wrote it. I mean if you are here only a short time visitor then speaking the language is not important at all. I thought you were thinking of leaving or not staying here much longer then its useless.

However if you live here then it is helpful, more then helpful actually. But if you were to leave its useless. I did not mean to say leave because you comment on Thailand, i those are bullshit replies that i dislike myself. So sorry for that remark.

I

[HardenedSoul]

I am still not happy with the government and how it will handle it next time. Just telling you your life would be a lot easier if you spoke Thai. The leaving part was not meant the way i wrote it. I mean if you are here only a short time visitor then speaking the language is not important at all. I thought you were thinking of leaving or not staying here much longer then its useless.

However if you live here then it is helpful, more then helpful actually. But if you were to leave its useless. I did not mean to say leave because you comment on Thailand, i those are bullshit replies that i dislike myself. So sorry for that remark

No worries

[HardenedSoul]

With hindsight, perhaps it would've been more appropriate, as Berkshire mentioned, if I had used the word "respected" instead of "accepted". I guess everybody wants to be accepted but for obvious reasons, this is impossible to gain from 100% of the people of any country; even their own. The best one can hope for is to be respected but the means by which this is achieved varies from person to person.

In a country where money is respected above all else irrespective of how it's been acquired, some from countries where outward displays of wealth are often ridiculed, seek to acquire items that leave the locals in no doubt that they have money and, thus, are deserving of respect. I prefer to let good manners and my ability to turn a blind eye to some of the more questionable cultural practices earn respect even though this process is rarely as quick and as blunt as sporting an IWC watch or flashing a set of Porsche keys.

[GarryP]

I try extremely hard to be accepted because I can't stand all those sleepless nights tossing and turning worrying about it.

Oh wait, that's a lie.

Yes all those nights spent tossing can be quite worrying, self-abuse aside.

No IPhone for me, I don't even use a mobile phone of any description. I don't shop at Emporium either, its to far away and inconvenient. Tesco and Big C are much closer and stock all I need. What else was there? Oh Thai language. I speak it about 95 percent of the time. I find speaking in Thai to the locals quite useful, especially as the vast majority are unable to converse in English. Makes things so much easier.

Overall, I would say I am not working hard at all.

[Bangkokhatter]

Since when do the " locals " shop at Emporium and Siam, I would suggest shopping at places like Tesco would be fitting in more with the locals than Emporium which is full of Hi-so's , Chinese , Japanese and the like.

Sure when at work I dress accordingly , nothing to do with fitting in, would do the same back home, as for wearing shorts, well it is quite hot some times and many of the Thais obviously agree as I see many drinking in the local bars wearing tailored shorts. If I was going into town for a big night out then I would dress up a bit, again nothing to do with impressing anybody.

As for learning the language, I am trying but pretty sure I will never impress any local

the emporium? not filled with locals? then who the hell are all those people who live near by i see there every time i go? I wonder who those people at paragon are too.

It really gives me pause the way people on this site bandy about the the term hi-so with out a clue as to what it actually means.

those hi-so's you see in the Emporium are, as a rule, members of Bangkok's very burgeoning middle class. It may surprise you to know that not every Thai with two sticks to rub together is hi-so.

Likewise, the Thais living in condos and driving all the cars you see on the road are NOT all hi-so. They are people who work, consume and procreate just like where you came from.

One would have hoped you would know that as you claim to work here. Unless your colleagues are all hi-so and not local.

Get over the assumption that all 'real' Thais are dirt poor. I does neither you nor Thailand justice.

btw: does the fact that you go to the emporium make you hi-so?

I don't claim to work here, I do. My point was that the people who shop in Emporium are not a true reflection of normal Thai people. I doubt they worry wether their salary will see them through to the end of the month like many of my work colleagues.

Sure there is a growing middle class here and I dare to say some of my colleagues would fit into this category as would most of the Thais that live in the same apartment block as me

Do I change my attitude towards them just to fit in ?

Of course not my parents taught me manners and I would act the same way wether I am talking to the cleaning lady at work or the General manager.

[Moonrakers]

Are people seriously referring to the possession of material goods in order to be accepted?

[onionluke]

Are people seriously referring to the possession of material goods in order to be accepted?

I think it is also about making loud noises when one eats , and reversing into parking spaces and all the other stuff one has to do to fit in .

[Moonrakers]

Are people seriously referring to the possession of material goods in order to be accepted?

I think it is also about making loud noises when one eats , and reversing into parking spaces and all the other stuff one has to do to fit in .

And using your ears as coin holders.

[onionluke]

Are people seriously referring to the possession of material goods in order to be accepted?

I think it is also about making loud noises when one eats , and reversing into parking spaces and all the other stuff one has to do to fit in .

And using your ears as coin holders.

Pure genious that .

[cdnvic]

Posts containing insults and silly name calling deleted.

[p_brownstone]

As the locals say here - kor sing suk sid hai kwam sa ngop gae ka, hai yom rap sing tee plian mai dai, hai glaa plian sing tee plian dai, lae panhaa tee ja yaek yae.

This is simple Thai language that probably many foreigners who have been here years can't understand.

Which translates to something like " may holy things give me serenity to accept things I can't change, courage to change things I can and wisdom to differentiate between the two".

Total nonsense.

This is not "simple Thai language" , much less anything even approximating what "locals say here"; it's just a simplistic translation of the Serenity Prayer by Karl Paul Reinhold Niebuhr into Cod Thai.

The original is :

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

Courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference.

I suggest you do not try to contribute to Threads unless you know what you are talking about.

Patrick

Edit : and by the way it's not "panhaa" which in Thai is ปัญหา meaning problem, it's "phanyaa" ปัญญา meaning wisdom or intelligence.

Patrick

Edited February 3, 2012 by p_brownstone

[zzaa09]

Is the OP talking about "accepted" or "respected?" Some of the things you talk about, such as learning the language and respecting the culture, those things certainly will endear you to the Thais. Having good manners, being good natured, even temperament, behaving in a dignified way, dressing appropriately, etc., will also gain respect. The IPhone thing is completely irrelevant. Not even if you travel in hi-so circles does anyone really give a rats-ass what phone you use or what watch you wear. Get serious. The only people who might care are the newly minted Isaan princesses who've suddenly married into wealth (in their eyes).

Might be more reflective of the vacany of knowledge towards the Thai culture, yet pretending they do. That's even more detrimental for the individual.