Explosion At Karon Hotel - At least 30 tourists injured at Phuket Orchid Resort

[F1fanatic]

... you know, this sounds as improbable that this was a bomb ... be sure, the Thai government will emphasize that in official statements again, and again, so authoritative and utterly empty.

... and I want to believe it was not a bomb, but with all the deceits and cover-ups for which the Thai government is now notorious (regardless of political stripe), I just cannot bring myself to believe anything they say ... even when it might be the truth ... who really knows?

... after over a decade here, I am conditioned to reflexively believe that if a Thai government official's lips are moving, they are lying ... I will believe it only after a foreigner, any foreigner, announces their view.

... I hate this, and what Thais have done to me in this regard.

I agree that it sounds improbable, bearing in mind how many private homes and hotels in Phuket have managed to chlorinate their pools safely, BUT we need more evidence before jumping to any conclusions.

This has nothing to do with the Government who will have only heard about it (at the most) a couple of hours ago.

[chrisinth]

I've noticed that as freedom goes up in a country, 'safety consciousness' goes down--and vice-versa. Can anyone explain, or offer counter-examples?

I treasure the freedom that Thailand offers, and realize that its price is eternal vigilance when crossing the road or doing almost anything else.

Given the above statement, and the high safety standards required in UK, what does that say for our freedom?

[F1fanatic]

... you know, this sounds as improbable that this was a bomb ... be sure, the Thai government will emphasize that in official statements again, and again, so authoritative and utterly empty.

... and I want to believe it was not a bomb, but with all the deceits and cover-ups for which the Thai government is now notorious (regardless of political stripe), I just cannot bring myself to believe anything they say ... even when it might be the truth ... who really knows?

... after over a decade here, I am conditioned to reflexively believe that if a Thai government official's lips are moving, they are lying ... I will believe it only after a foreigner, any foreigner, announces their view.

... I hate this, and what Thais have done to me in this regard.

Don't blame the Thais for that, blame yourself.

+1

You need to live here a bit longer to become quite so sceptical.

[uranuss]

lot of pressure in this container,wheres that monkey wrench.

[stevenl]

... you know, this sounds as improbable that this was a bomb ... be sure, the Thai government will emphasize that in official statements again, and again, so authoritative and utterly empty.

... and I want to believe it was not a bomb, but with all the deceits and cover-ups for which the Thai government is now notorious (regardless of political stripe), I just cannot bring myself to believe anything they say ... even when it might be the truth ... who really knows?

... after over a decade here, I am conditioned to reflexively believe that if a Thai government official's lips are moving, they are lying ... I will believe it only after a foreigner, any foreigner, announces their view.

... I hate this, and what Thais have done to me in this regard.

Don't blame the Thais for that, blame yourself.

+1

You need to live here a bit longer to become quite so sceptical.

A bit longer than what or who? Judging by his post I have lived here longer than swillowbee, but he? seems to be the one who is more sceptical.

[jaywalker]

I've occasionally worked with the Thai Army as a consultant/technical adviser on some US made trucks over the past 10 years.

They've had this equipment for over 20 years. Their level of expertise is at the bottom of the barrel.

Basically they NEVER EVER change or check the oil, so eventually the engine seizes up. They then proceed to remove every single part of the truck, to "re-build" it, when all it needed was a new engine.

I love the country & without fail, everyone I've worked with are the nicest of nice people, but when I try to show them a way that is 100 times more efficient to do something, I get a smile & they just keep on doing what they were doing before.

[Basil B]

Presume this was not dissimilar to mustard gas as used in the first world war.

People handling these chemical should know what the dangers are and how to handle the chemicals properly.

The people employing these people have a "duty of care" to ensure their employees are competent and know what they are doing so the do not harm themselves or others.

The people who make and supply these chemicals also have a "duty of care" by ensuring these chemicals are only supplied to people/companies who know how to handle them.

Local authorities and governments have likewise a responsibility to ensure the safe handling of such chemicals.

No it was no accident, I would say it was carelessness or recklessness, not just by the person mixing the chemical but also by the others detailed above.

[chrisinth]

Presume this was not dissimilar to mustard gas as used in the first world war.

People handling these chemical should know what the dangers are and how to handle the chemicals properly.

The people employing these people have a "duty of care" to ensure their employees are competent and know what they are doing so the do not harm themselves or others.

The people who make and supply these chemicals also have a "duty of care" by ensuring these chemicals are only supplied to people/companies who know how to handle them.

Local authorities and governments have likewise a responsibility to ensure the safe handling of such chemicals.

No it was no accident, I would say it was carelessness or recklessness, not just by the person mixing the chemical but also by the others detailed above.

All these chemicals come with their own Manufacturers hazardous data sheet, and yes, the hotel is responsible for complying to these; storage, usage, recommended dilution, etc.

What is not clear is what actually happened, and until those facts are made public we should keep an open mind. This is obviously not a daily occurance.

[HarrySeaman]

Solid sodium hypochlorite is used for adding chlorine to a pool. As it acts, sodium hypochlorite breaks down into chlorine which kills bacteria, and into sodium hydroxide. Hydrochloric acid is used to counteract the alkaline sodium hydroxide and keep the water of the the pool neutral - neither acidic or alkaline. Keeping the water neutral is important since the water will irritate the eyes if it is either acidic or alkaline.

Sodium hypochloride for pools usually comes as a granular solid in plastic 5 gallon containers. It sounds like the pool cleaner poured some hydrochloric acid into one of these sodium hypochlorite containers. The result would be a lot of heat and the release of a lot of free chlorine gas.

For those that don't know it, chlorine gas was one of the worst poison gasses used during World War II. The gas will burn the eyes, resulting in temporary or even perminant blindness. Inhaling it results in chemical burns to the lungs and burn induced phnumonia. Frequently this is what lead to death - the soldiers drowned in their own body fluids as they filled their chemically burned lungs.

Let us hope that nobody, including the pool cleaner, received a large exposure to the gas.

[Maseratimartin]

Let's keep the issues coming and then the only tourist you will see in Thailand is the sex tourist....oh even them maybe not as the government want to stop prostitution in Thailand...bla bla...

[anterian]

calcium hypochlorite... Google it, a common pool chemical to clean water. Highly combustive when improperly stored.

Hardly combustive, it will self heat if it gets damp and release chlorine gas. Such a release in a sealed container could cause a pressure explosion.

calcium hypochlorite is sold in many shops as powdered bleach.

[swillowbee]

... you know, this sounds as improbable that this was a bomb ... be sure, the Thai government will emphasize that in official statements again, and again, so authoritative and utterly empty.

... and I want to believe it was not a bomb, but with all the deceits and cover-ups for which the Thai government is now notorious (regardless of political stripe), I just cannot bring myself to believe anything they say ... even when it might be the truth ... who really knows?

... after over a decade here, I am conditioned to reflexively believe that if a Thai government official's lips are moving, they are lying ... I will believe it only after a foreigner, any foreigner, announces their view.

... I hate this, and what Thais have done to me in this regard.

Don't blame the Thais for that, blame yourself.

You need to live here a bit longer to become quite so sceptical.

A bit longer than what or who? Judging by his post I have lived here longer than swillowbee, but he? seems to be the one who is more sceptical.

.

... stevenl ... the answer is 12 years ... the word for which you are looking is not "skeptical" ... it is "cynical."

... and yes, while I am ultimately responsible for my own disposition, it is difficult not to be dragged down after being bombarded day after day, year after year, reading the incessant lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, extorting, bribing, child trafficking, and on, and on, and on, the consequences for which are ... nothing ... nothing.

... and as careful as I am, I too have fallen victim to it ... but, when children are the victims, it is about as ugly as it gets ... how a society treats its elderly, defenseless and children says much about it's values ... this all tends to make a person cynical.

... my view is that Thai values are in a death spiral, past the tipping point where there might no longer emerge from this mess a leader with the moral and ethical mandate to lead Thailand to a better way ... there is in sight here no Mohandas Gandhi, or Aung San Suu Kyi, or Nelson Mandela.

... and the future of my Thai foster children is far lesser for it ... and yes ... for that, I resent the ruling Thais, across all the various social and political sectors.

... sorry .. I ranged a bit from my original point about the veracity of Thai officials.

Edited February 18, 2012 by swillowbee

[webfact]

Dozens injured by Thai hotel pool chlorine leak

BANGKOK, February 18, 2012 (AFP) - More than 30 people, many of them foreign tourists, were rushed to hospital Saturday on the Thai resort island of Phuket after a chlorine leak at a hotel swimming pool, local officials said.

The accident occurred shortly after 10:00am (0300 GMT) at the Phuket Orchid Resort and Spa hotel on Karon beach, according to chief investigator Lieutenant Colonel Chavalit Pethsripia.

He said more than 30 people suffered minor injuries, none of them serious, after they were exposed to an unhealthily high level of chlorine in the pool.

The leak caused skin irritation and sore eyes, according to director Phumin Silapan at the local Patong hospital.

"There are 37 people hospitalised, including 26 foreigners," he told AFP, adding that 12 had already been discharged while 25 were referred to a larger hospital.

One of those referred was a pregnant tourist who had breathing difficulties after inhaling the chemical, he said.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-02-18

[crazykopite]

First and foremost I hope everyone concerned is recovering after their ordeal. I do not understand why they are messing around with chemicals when it is reported that there were more than 100 persons in the area of the pool. It should be common sense that cleaning and checking swimming pool conditions are carried out in the early morning before the pool is open to those staying at the resort. I hope the resort is well insured as I can see claims being submitted if this happened in Europe the facility would be closed until a proper investigation was carried out. When will these resorts learn that jobs of this nature should be undertaken by well qualified staff.

[arrowsdawdle]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

This is fact. Especially, they avoid advice from non-Thais. And, how often have you had an incompetent employee or official without a clue how to resolve a simple issue, such as in a bank, and the others, including the manager(s) will not tell the employee what to do because that would cause the employee to lose face. They even act as if the moron is doing just fine.

Saying they "are perfectly aware of it" is probably giving them too much credit, although their acceptance of mediocrity is indisputable.

[fishhooks]

Let's keep the issues coming and then the only tourist you will see in Thailand is the sex tourist....oh even them maybe not as the government want to stop prostitution in Thailand...bla bla...

A lot of experienced "Forum" thought went into this one!

[arrowsdawdle]

First and foremost I hope everyone concerned is recovering after their ordeal. I do not understand why they are messing around with chemicals when it is reported that there were more than 100 persons in the area of the pool. It should be common sense that cleaning and checking swimming pool conditions are carried out in the early morning before the pool is open to those staying at the resort. I hope the resort is well insured as I can see claims being submitted if this happened in Europe the facility would be closed until a proper investigation was carried out. When will these resorts learn that jobs of this nature should be undertaken by well qualified staff.

1. It's the media's fault for reporting this and causing tourism problems.
   
2. This will not affect tourism arrivals and new estimates are that 2012 will see 30 million visitors.
   

[wlcart]

I've noticed that as freedom goes up in a country, 'safety consciousness' goes down--and vice-versa. Can anyone explain, or offer counter-examples?

I treasure the freedom that Thailand offers, and realize that its price is eternal vigilance when crossing the road or doing almost anything else.

I totally agree about preferring self reliance over an intrusive government. I think your word 'consciousness' is a bit misplaced.

Back in the day when the USSR had control over Russia, the country had a very low crime rate. When they became free, crime went through the roof. The point is, it wasn't consciousness that kept the crime down, it was a repressive regime, and when the regime ended, there was actually a consciousness void.

Freedom in Thailand does not come from the governments abilities or choices. I would not call the laws here free, fair or open. I think it is just Thailand's lack of organization, determination and resources to enforce those laws that results in the liberty from them.

Because most Thais do it on their own without a capable government, if all the world's governments ended today, I think Thais may be able to take care of themselves and have more 'safty consciousness' than Westerners.

Here in Thailand obeying the laws of physics is more basic and way more important that obeying the laws of the government.

[KRS1]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

If a thai person asked an american about lao kao, how much would you expect them to know about it?

The floods in New Orleans was almost as bad, how long will america keep up the charade?

Sooner or later people are going to realize americans do not know everything, right?

The King knew thailand was going to suffer major floods many decades ago, and his majesty had designed a system to deal with it. But instead the land that was set aside to store the flood waters had been developed by real estate investors and an airport built within it.

I worked as an interpretor for cobra gold a few years and one of the things i will never forget was - an officer could not figure out how to turn on the hot water in his hotel, never occurred to him to turn the handle to the left.

[Time Traveller]

.

I've noticed that as freedom goes up in a country, 'safety consciousness' goes down--and vice-versa. Can anyone explain, or offer counter-examples?

I treasure the freedom that Thailand offers, and realize that its price is eternal vigilance when crossing the road or doing almost anything else.

So you think North Korea and China are the safest countries in the world?

Edited February 18, 2012 by Time Traveller

[Soutpeel]

Hardly combustive, it will self heat if it gets damp and release chlorine gas. Such a release in a sealed container could cause a pressure explosion.

calcium hypochlorite is sold in many shops as powdered bleach.

But it does become combustable when mixed with certain household cleaning chemical, which I am not going to name as some moron will try it....

[arrowsdawdle]

Presume this was not dissimilar to mustard gas as used in the first world war.

People handling these chemical should know what the dangers are and how to handle the chemicals properly.

The people employing these people have a "duty of care" to ensure their employees are competent and know what they are doing so the do not harm themselves or others.

The people who make and supply these chemicals also have a "duty of care" by ensuring these chemicals are only supplied to people/companies who know how to handle them.

Local authorities and governments have likewise a responsibility to ensure the safe handling of such chemicals.

No it was no accident, I would say it was carelessness or recklessness, not just by the person mixing the chemical but also by the others detailed above.

All these chemicals come with their own Manufacturers hazardous data sheet, and yes, the hotel is responsible for complying to these; storage, usage, recommended dilution, etc.

What is not clear is what actually happened, and until those facts are made public we should keep an open mind. This is obviously not a daily occurance.

The only thing that will be made public will be the lack of culpability of any Thai business or person.

[cowslip]

was it actually a BLAST???

or was it chemicals in the water?

Chlorine gas is hugely dangerous - wasn't it used in WW1 in the trenches?

[cowslip]

.

I've noticed that as freedom goes up in a country, 'safety consciousness' goes down--and vice-versa. Can anyone explain, or offer counter-examples?

I treasure the freedom that Thailand offers, and realize that its price is eternal vigilance when crossing the road or doing almost anything else.

So you think North Korea and China are the safest countries in the world?

I'd say just about every country in the world is evidence to counter your theory.

Edited February 18, 2012 by cowslip

[HerbalEd]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

You do realize that Thailand is a developing (third-world) country, right? If you want wine expertise, go to Europe.

[Oberkommando]

I've noticed that as freedom goes up in a country, 'safety consciousness' goes down--and vice-versa. Can anyone explain, or offer counter-examples?

I treasure the freedom that Thailand offers, and realize that its price is eternal vigilance when crossing the road or doing almost anything else.

Free to report or leave the country every 90 days and carry your passport at all times.

This is just another inevitable and wholly preventable accident in the World's Most Dangerous Tourism Destination for Brits, Aussies and Swedes.

[pomchop]

... you know, this sounds as improbable that this was a bomb ... be sure, the Thai government will emphasize that in official statements again, and again, so authoritative and utterly empty.

... and I want to believe it was not a bomb, but with all the deceits and cover-ups for which the Thai government is now notorious (regardless of political stripe), I just cannot bring myself to believe anything they say ... even when it might be the truth ... who really knows?

... after over a decade here, I am conditioned to reflexively believe that if a Thai government official's lips are moving, they are lying ... I will believe it only after a foreigner, any foreigner, announces their view.

... I hate this, and what Thais have done to me in this regard.

any foreigner? yeah right maybe pull some drunk off a bar stool and get his opinion...somehow i suspect that many who constantly criticize thais are the very same ones who left your home country because it was OVER regulated....if you want super safety standards then perhaps you should consider living in a country where the govt tells you when, what, where, how, why, how much, how little, how big, how wide, how many etc....to expect to find the level of inspections and employee training in a country like thailand and still have a low cost of living and all the freedoms that Thailand offers is just a bit naive....

[cowslip]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

You do realize that Thailand is a developing (third-world) country, right? If you want wine expertise, go to Europe.

Unfortunately it's NOT though is it?

[cowslip]

I've noticed that as freedom goes up in a country, 'safety consciousness' goes down--and vice-versa. Can anyone explain, or offer counter-examples?

I treasure the freedom that Thailand offers, and realize that its price is eternal vigilance when crossing the road or doing almost anything else.

I totally agree about preferring self reliance over an intrusive government. I think your word 'consciousness' is a bit misplaced.

Back in the day when the USSR had control over Russia, the country had a very low crime rate. When they became free, crime went through the roof. The point is, it wasn't consciousness that kept the crime down, it was a repressive regime, and when the regime ended, there was actually a consciousness void.

Freedom in Thailand does not come from the governments abilities or choices. I would not call the laws here free, fair or open. I think it is just Thailand's lack of organization, determination and resources to enforce those laws that results in the liberty from them.

Because most Thais do it on their own without a capable government, if all the world's governments ended today, I think Thais may be able to take care of themselves and have more 'safty consciousness' than Westerners.

Here in Thailand obeying the laws of physics is more basic and way more important that obeying the laws of the government.

I think you should review what you mean by "crime" - some crimes in the old USSR were committed by the set and never registered - other crimes fell into disuse and were replaced by the sort of crimes you see under capitalism - but LESS crime? No way, Hose!

[lensta]

Hope everyone is alright, particularly the pregnant woman and her baby.

Try to avoid the wild speculation and name calling of tradesmen until the details come out eh!

Agreed, we certainly don't want to start calling them "tradesmen"