Explosion At Karon Hotel - At least 30 tourists injured at Phuket Orchid Resort

[Oberkommando]

any foreigner? yeah right maybe pull some drunk off a bar stool and get his opinion...somehow i suspect that many who constantly criticize thais are the very same ones who left your home country because it was OVER regulated....if you want super safety standards then perhaps you should consider living in a country where the govt tells you when, what, where, how, why, how much, how little, how big, how wide, how many etc....to expect to find the level of inspections and employee training in a country like thailand and still have a low cost of living and all the freedoms that Thailand offers is just a bit naive....

What "freedoms" are you meaning here?

It's a myth that Thailand is more free than Western countries unless you are breaking the law.

[Burr]

Just what the country needs after the other mess!!!

[cdnvic]

Stay on topic and save the rants please. Any more off topic posts will be deleted without comment.

[sydneyjed]

'“He has been maintaining pools for 20 years. Today, he just did something wrong. It was just an accident,” he said.'

Give the guy a break until we know more. Accidents happen, just be glad no one was killed from what we know so far. And be very grateful it was not an attack which of course is what everyone will think when they hear this. Especially after the incidents in Bangkok a few days ago.

Sub contracting by any chance???

[12DrinkMore]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

This is the "Loss of Face" syndrome.

[NanLaew]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

Wow! Serious stuff. No sommeliers in Thailand? <deleted>? What a huge loss of international face that is. Think of the hundreds of lives at risk!

Good job that most of the swimming pool engineers in LOS appear to know their game though.

[NastyNick]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

You do realize that Thailand is a developing (third-world) country, right? If you want wine expertise, go to Europe.

Unfortunately it's NOT though is it?

I hope so. If Thailand develops into Europe or North America, who the heck would want to go there.

[thaibeachlovers]

Lack of training and awareness of what safety is constitutes one of Thailand's weakest facets.

Thailand has dismal safety records, not only in traffic, electrocutions and safety of tourists and food poisoning, but also in civil defense (flood preparedness, standards for electrical public wiring and/or installations, building and zoning, etc.). Add to that and their laid back attitude regarding personal safety, and that of others. It is becoming common knowledge in the world no matter what TAT says. Thailand is not a safe place for a pedestrian tourist. Motorcycles riding on sidewalks, motorists oblivious to the presence of pedestrians at crosswalks even at red lights, motorcyclists riding with one hand, while on the mobile phone, without helmets and with 2 or more people on board: all at the same time! That should make any sane person cringe. The list of what ails this country is long and sad and can bring about a recession.

Taking for granted the success in tourism of yore is one of those ailments. This country has a rich culture, good decent people as a whole, and potentially can have a better future. Alas, Thais are reactive and not proactive. Thailand may become one of those countries that could have been but didn't...

Having had to rewire a Thai house ( death trap electrics ) I will never be surprised at a story like this.

Motorcycle riders holding babies while riding one handed etc etc. One can only just hope that it's not "me" to suffer today ( or leave the country ).

[chooka]

Before people starting jumping on Thai's for this one they should realise that this is a Singaporean owned and operated resort. Banyan Holdings I believe.

Edited February 18, 2012 by chooka

[osiboy]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

Why are some people putting down Thai people in general when some accident has happened. What happened with the chemical also has happened in the west as well , europe over the years in swimmingpools. I can remember some of them. one right in the city where i live in the Netherlands. Accidents with chemicals , in factories, with fireworks, they can happen everywhere and anytime.

looks like the thais are going to get the bragging rights again though "champions of catastrophe",...with the firework explosion last month and now this one with chemicals , ....sure accidents can happen everywhere ...and they do , its just that in thailand the lessons never seem to be learned , ...they have no plans to introduce health and safety and you can watch this space for another "accident in the next few days that could have been easily avoided with some education or H&S ,........but life is not as important as making a few extra baht right ?

[softgeorge]

Before people starting jumping on Thai's for this one they should realise that this is a Singaporean owned and operated resort. Banyan Holdings I believe.

If that is the case then it is the Singapore company's responsibilty for the training of it's staff and safety standards. The blame lays at the feet of the directors. The thais can feel exhonerated on this one then and any compensation will come from Singapore and not Thailand.

[madmitch]

Before people starting jumping on Thai's for this one they should realise that this is a Singaporean owned and operated resort. Banyan Holdings I believe.

Where do you get that information from?

The hotel is owned by Kata Group. I don't believe there is any Singapore involvement but I could be wrong.

Also to the person that speculated no one will be accountable may wish to note that the hotel has picked up all the medical bills.

[steven100]

Was this a terrorist attact ?? what nationality is involved and are the authorities searching for these culprits ??

TIA

very sad when this happens ...

[KeyserSoze01]

Sooner or later people are going to realize americans do not know everything, right?

I worked as an interpretor for cobra gold a few years and one of the things i will never forget was - an officer could not figure out how to turn on the hot water in his hotel, never occurred to him to turn the handle to the left.

Never, ever miss an opportunity to put a boot in the Americans, eh? Even on a thread where a Thai employee has been doing the same job for 20 years, then forgets his procedures and causes this accident.

As to your Cobra Gold reference, it's a cultural difference, much as most Thais spout when questioned why things are done the way they are in Thailand. In the US, 99% of plumbing fixtures are turned to the right to turn them on, not to the left.

[Pib]

According to this 6:02pm/18Feb/Saturday Phuket Gazette news article all the affected guests have returned to the hospital, to include the pregnant lady. Hotel will cover medical bills. Cause of accident was adding powdered chlorine versus liquid cholorine....even identified the hotel worker you made the mistake.

[prefabs]

I'm curious what caused it. Smoking while filling the tank or bonking a valve with a hammer.

Class 1 Division 1 Hazardous Locations require expensive electrical fittings. Inspections are a pain in the arse, but very needed.

Would never have classed a swimming pool as class 1, div. 2

Where is this mentioned? First quote is pretty specific, second is more exact

[softgeorge]

Before people starting jumping on Thai's for this one they should realise that this is a Singaporean owned and operated resort. Banyan Holdings I believe.

Where do you get that information from?

The hotel is owned by Kata Group. I don't believe there is any Singapore involvement but I could be wrong.

Also to the person that speculated no one will be accountable may wish to note that the hotel has picked up all the medical bills.

Just did a google search and this is what I found.

Banyan Tree Holding has a 58% share holding in the Phuket Orchid resort.

Banyan Tree Holdings (SGX: B58) manages and develops resorts, hotels and spas. They have been listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange since 2006. Banyan began in 1994 with a single resort in Phuket and currently manages and/or has ownership interests in over 20 resorts and hotels, 60 spas, 70 retail galleries, and 3 golf courses. The company is best known for its Banyan Tree and Angsana brands.

Banyan Tree Holdings Limited Type Public (SGX: B58) Founded 1994 Headquarters Singapore Key people Ho Kwon Ping, Executive Chairman

Ariel P Vera, Group Managing Director Revenue S$313.3 million (FY 2009) Net income S$3 million (FY 2009) Website www.banyantree.com

[Roj]

Solid sodium hypochlorite is used for adding chlorine to a pool. As it acts, sodium hypochlorite breaks down into chlorine which kills bacteria, and into sodium hydroxide. Hydrochloric acid is used to counteract the alkaline sodium hydroxide and keep the water of the the pool neutral - neither acidic or alkaline. Keeping the water neutral is important since the water will irritate the eyes if it is either acidic or alkaline.

Sodium hypochloride for pools usually comes as a granular solid in plastic 5 gallon containers. It sounds like the pool cleaner poured some hydrochloric acid into one of these sodium hypochlorite containers. The result would be a lot of heat and the release of a lot of free chlorine gas.

For those that don't know it, chlorine gas was one of the worst poison gasses used during World War II. The gas will burn the eyes, resulting in temporary or even perminant blindness. Inhaling it results in chemical burns to the lungs and burn induced phnumonia. Frequently this is what lead to death - the soldiers drowned in their own body fluids as they filled their chemically burned lungs.

Let us hope that nobody, including the pool cleaner, received a large exposure to the gas.

For those that do know it was one of the worst poison gases used during World War One. My own grandfather was injured in a chlorine gas attack at Ypres. By World War 2 there were far more potent chemical weapons available and the Germans who were the most enthusiastic about this type of weapon had large stockpiles of Sarin but never used it as they realised that they would face retaliatory attacks just as they did in World War One. Edited February 18, 2012 by Roj

[Cheops]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

Why are some people putting down Thai people in general when some accident has happened. What happened with the chemical also has happened in the west as well , europe over the years in swimmingpools. I can remember some of them. one right in the city where i live in the Netherlands. Accidents with chemicals , in factories, with fireworks, they can happen everywhere and anytime.

You clearly either don't live here, or not long enough or you don't work with Thais. If you did you wouldn't comment like this. Spidermike007 says it exactly right! If you work with Thais or if you watch them closely you will know that technical expertise and safety are words that are non-existant in their dictionaries.

[swerver]

“He has been maintaining pools for 20 years. Today, he just did something wrong. It was just an accident,” he said.

This is the best statement about Thai mentality given by a Thai.

The rule worldwide when handling chemicals: Chemicals INTO the WATER.

NEVER Water into the Chemical.

Reason for this rule: when putting water into the chemical there is not enough water for cooling and if the heat created in the mixing gets high enough there can be an explosion.

Typical Thai, for 20-years puts chemical into the water and then one day has a hair crosswise up its ass and puts water into the chemical.

Had similar encounter the other day with a building maintenance employee, 18-years does a fine job then the other day a door would not open. The door had a door closer. The obvious procedure, disconnect the articulating rods and see if the door closer arm can be moved. Simple isn’t it. After 18-years to this Thai all of a sudden it was not that simple. He took out his Power Screwdriver and rattled away trying to tighten the (ALREADY100% THIGHT) Reeden Prince Head screws holding the door closer onto the door with a Philips Head screwdriver and in the process rounded all the heads. He tried, door still did not open. Picked up his tools, walked away, and told the secretary in the office “cannot be fixed”. Over and out. So the job was left for me the owner to do.

Disconnected the articulating rods, tried to move the arm, would not move, piston inside cylinder jammed. Simple, install new door closer.

But it was not that simple because all the screw heads had been rounded. Screws of High Tensile steel, difficult to drill out. Had to drill away the aluminum body of the door closer around the screw heads.

I’m really at 85 getting a bit too old for having to fix the ####ps of Thais. Seriously looking for a buyer or buyers for the properties so I can throw my clothes in my satchel and move on. From previous living there Dalath in Vietnam sounds appealing, Maybe Baguio in Philippines or Bandung, Indonesia, the Indonesians did find out by now that the Dutch weren’t so bad after all.

[Tanaka]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

What? Foreigners should teach Thais how to do things? Why, Thais always know more than foreigners. Every Thai knows that they are superior..

[rakman]

I've noticed that as freedom goes up in a country, 'safety consciousness' goes down--and vice-versa. Can anyone explain, or offer counter-examples?

I treasure the freedom that Thailand offers, and realize that its price is eternal vigilance when crossing the road or doing almost anything else.

Not really.. As wealth and education goes up, safety and environmental awareness increases. Many parts of the world don't have the same reverence for life as western societies.

[cdnski12]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

How often have you jumped on a Thai Airline ... not to mention Air Traffic Control ... and positional radar assessments ... HELP!!

[JohanV]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

This is the "Loss of Face" syndrome.

I second that. The "Loss Of Face" syndrome is omnipresent here.

There is, however, from my own experience a workaround that yields impressive results - let's call it the "Gain Face Effect" - that can be implemented as a cure. It requires some social sensitivity on the side of the teaching part, and it seems to be rather incompatible with the traditional western "let-me-show-you-how-it's-done" approach, but it does exist.

I have had great success in actually changing the work ethics and the mindset of my Thai assistants by simply making sure that I inform/reprimand them privately on a one-to-one basis, thus giving them the advantage of exposing their new found skills/knowledge to their peers in a way that preserves their pride by giving them a chance to act knowledable rather than facing the percieved humiliation of being lectured. Quite simple, really, although it takes some time and effort.

I can see lots of slightly derogatory ranting going on here about "stupid Thais". I would say most of those judgements seem to be based on a western scale of measurement. It seems to me that judging people's behaviour in one culture by a measurement system from another culture is a good recipe for dissapointment, misunderstandings, failure and eventually mutual disrespect. In all education teachers are considered responsible for acheiving results, especially when knowing what the students are like even before starting the course, and I think this should be valid in the "farang-teaches-Thai" situations as well.

I also doubt that most Thai people really "accepts it" - in a western sense. They just keep their personal opinions to themselves, believing they are unable to change the situation.

peace

[inkorat]

I hope all of them recovery quickly with any long term effects.

Having written procedures and a management team that is willing and to implement the procedure, prevents many mishaps. Upper management in Thailand is OK, but middle management is another story, with the Phi / Nong relationship and fear of offending the other party.

Doing it the Right Way is no excuse for not doing it the Thai Way !

[starkey_rich]

I was talking to a mate tonight who is having problems with his pool at his villa in Rawai.His excact words were the Thai guy who came to look at it had no idea or apparent training in what he was doing nor did his Burmese workforce.His pool still no good.

I suppose the old adage stands more here than most.

YOU PAY PEANUTS!

[Johpa]

I’m really at 85 getting a bit too old for having to fix the ####ps of Thais. Seriously looking for a buyer or buyers for the properties so I can throw my clothes in my satchel and move on. From previous living there Dalath in Vietnam sounds appealing, Maybe Baguio in Philippines or Bandung, Indonesia, the Indonesians did find out by now that the Dutch weren’t so bad after all.

Perhaps what you really need during your waning years is to give up the neo-sahib liefstyle and find an assisted living facility in the Netherlands. You might even find some former colleagues of Westerling and raise glasses to the superiority of Empire.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Johpa

[WarpSpeed]

calcium hypochlorite... Google it, a common pool chemical to clean water. Highly combustive when improperly stored.

Or mixed improperly with water.

God forbid if any diesel fuel comes in contact with it.. Nightmare scenario...

[WarpSpeed]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

Why are some people putting down Thai people in general when some accident has happened. What happened with the chemical also has happened in the west as well , europe over the years in swimmingpools. I can remember some of them. one right in the city where i live in the Netherlands. Accidents with chemicals , in factories, with fireworks, they can happen everywhere and anytime.

You clearly either don't live here, or not long enough or you don't work with Thais. If you did you wouldn't comment like this. Spidermike007 says it exactly right! If you work with Thais or if you watch them closely you will know that technical expertise and safety are words that are non-existant in their dictionaries.

I agree BUT having worked with and trained some in this very field I found them willing and eager to learn and mostly I found that their farang bosses were the stumbling blocks and not actually the Thai's. A Thai who wants to learn is hampered by having a foreign boss who thinks he knows everything but really knows very little and that's the only example for the Thai's that are looking up to them in spite of how ill informed the boss actually is.. In this field though most here have never had any real practical experience before coming here or ran a swimming pool route and now think they got it all over the locals (which isn't saying much) but they themselves are just learning on the job with no supervision themselves..But it's not like opening a bar, you actually have to have real world experience..

There are ways to speak to a Thai to get the results you want and educate and gain their respect but mostly the people (read foreigners) I know especially in this area are arrogant and condescending when they speak to them like many of the posters on here tend to be and then the defenses go up..

Edited February 18, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[lannarebirth]

Children doing a mans job. The level of technical expertise in Thailand is scary. So many people are doing jobs they are not qualified for, or do not understand. I was speaking to someone the other day, who was referring to the lack of expertise when it comes to getting a question answered about wine, at a restaurant in a 5 star hotel. They are charging 300 baht per glass, and the only details they understood was that there were two kinds of wine in the world. Red and white. Only the GM of the hotel had any detailed knowledge about varietals. How about water management? When the US Marine Corp offered early last year to teach the Thai engineers about water management techniques they were told that Thailand will never suffer major floods, as they had a lot of experts in water management. How much longer can Thailand keep up this charade? People are going to notice this sooner of later, right?

That's exactly it. THEY DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM ANYONE! And people are perfectly aware of it and accept it!

This is the "Loss of Face" syndrome.

I second that. The "Loss Of Face" syndrome is omnipresent here.

I disagree. The loss of money syndrome trumps the loss of face each and every time. It's always about the money. If seen Thais have near aneurisms over 10 baht. They never care about face where money is concerned.