Give Thai People A Chance To Work, Not Free Handouts

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Give people a chance to work, not free handouts

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- While the government must help workers left jobless as a result of flooding, long-term policies must focus on training and opportunities

The government will have to prepare to assist people who are likely to be permanently laid off because of last year's flood disaster, which crippled industrial estates in the central region. The Employment Department recently reported that 122 businesses have so far laid off 45,078 people since last year, as they have not yet been able to recover from the massive deluge, which halted their business operations.

Ayutthaya topped the list of casualties, with 72 establishments laying off 25,919 - or 57.4 per cent - of the flood-affected workers, followed by Pathum Thani, where 35 establishments laid off 18,483 workers, and Chachoengsao, where two businesses laid off 509 workers.

The government therefore has to urgently implement measures to assist these workers in finding new jobs during this difficult period. Many of these workers are low skilled, and are likely to find it hard to find new employment.

Many of the affected workers are still living in the provinces. The government should thus concentrate its efforts on enabling them to find jobs in those same provinces instead of seeing them migrate to the big cities to find menial jobs.

More workers could be affected. The Office of the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB) reported that a total of about 164,500 employees of flood-affected enterprises are at risk of losing their jobs permanently this year, as 284 firms have still not reopened after last year's inundation. These people are not yet officially unemployed. But their future is still uncertain pending the decisions of their companies.

Apart from the long-term financial and social consequences of the flood disaster, these low-skilled workers will face another challenge as a result of the government's policy to raise the minimum wage nationwide. This policy has met with criticism from the private sector, and some industries may now take the decision to replace low-wage workers with machinery, because they will find it more difficult to cover the rising cost of labour.

The government plans to increase the minimum wage to Bt300 per day, starting in seven provinces. The rise in wages will certainly help to improve the well-being of many workers, and it may also help businesses to increase their efficiency. But it will almost certainly come at the expense of job security for thousands of other workers, as businesses choose to adopt new technology to boost capacity if their workers can easily be replaced by machinery.

At the same time, the global economic slowdown may force some industries to downsize. This is possible here in industries such as textiles and garments and electrical appliances, because Thailand no longer has a competitive edge over emerging neighbouring countries such as Vietnam.

The government and responsible agencies must help unskilled workers by providing retraining programmes to make them still relevant in the job market during these changing times. The government should help these workers by matching them with potential new employers, as there are many sectors that face a shortage of labour. These workers should also be trained in how to manage their finances for future security.

The NESDB has also reported that unemployment last year increased by 1.1 per cent, with the number of unemployed workers standing at about 200,000, or 0.7 per cent of the potential workforce.

Although the overall unemployment figure in Thailand is better than that in many other countries, we still do not have a good welfare system that can provide comprehensive assistance to the unemployed, especially those who have relied on the minimum wage.

The unemployment number should be monitored carefully. At the same time, the government should re-prioritise its policy objectives. Instead of aiming to inflate growth through potentially damaging populist policies, the government should focus on employment. The key issue is how to create jobs and enable workers to rise in their careers by providing skills training and opportunities.

-- The Nation 2012-03-03

[rheinwiese]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

[seaeagle]

Work requires skills. Skills require knowledge. Knowledge requires training. Training requires education. ......And so we come back to root of many issues in this country,

[Unkomoncents]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Unkomoncents

[scorecard]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

The point is, and it's not rocket scence my friend, that the whole picture needs to be restructured, especially to get to a point where a much bigger percentage of all Thais have the capability and the opportunity to do more value added work and get themselves into a much better quality of life, in turn more taxes, and making the country capable of generating the funds for welfare systems, etc.

Yes, it's true, every government for the last several decades is quilty of not paying attention to this subject. And now we have the pt fools. Have they mentioned this subject, either before or after the elction? No, nothing, and not likley that they will look at this subject for obvious reasons. And please don'y say 'tablets'.

Edited March 3, 2012 by scorecard

[Bakseedaa]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Tax is collected in a different way in Thailand and not on wages / salary, unless you reach a certain amount...! Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

[chrisinth]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I take it from your reply that you are a teacher and from your reply, this is a step in the right direction to address education in the long term.

What the article is talking about is people that have been laid off due to the flood situation, and with all honesty, i don't see that being able to format an excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop is going to be an advantage to say a 4G qualified welder or a crane operator. I am not having a go at foreign teachers here, but the general mind set from them is based on the curriculum that they follow in the classroom, as it should be, but with no reality of the actual working areas of Thailand.

In my opinion, for the greater part, there is too much emphasis given to English language learning in this country and more of this time should be given to teaching trades. The majority of Thais will never get to a position where they will need to speak English, and those that do make it, and show the potential should be afforded the knowledge of the language teachers. This is the harsh reality of Thailand.

BTW, if the school you are at can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop for its students, then you are far above the general working Thais educational limits to begin with.

[daninthai]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I take it from your reply that you are a teacher and from your reply, this is a step in the right direction to address education in the long term.

What the article is talking about is people that have been laid off due to the flood situation, and with all honesty, i don't see that being able to format an excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop is going to be an advantage to say a 4G qualified welder or a crane operator. I am not having a go at foreign teachers here, but the general mind set from them is based on the curriculum that they follow in the classroom, as it should be, but with no reality of the actual working areas of Thailand.

In my opinion, for the greater part, there is too much emphasis given to English language learning in this country and more of this time should be given to teaching trades. The majority of Thais will never get to a position where they will need to speak English, and those that do make it, and show the potential should be afforded the knowledge of the language teachers. This is the harsh reality of Thailand.

BTW, if the school you are at can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop for its students, then you are far above the general working Thais educational limits to begin with.

I'm a teacher myself, and I think you're right with your comments. Instead of trying to get every Thai speaking English, the effort should be focused on the select few who need it and show aptitude for it.

[OzMick]

IMHO most Thais work long hours for very low wages, mainly because of the low value-input of their work, and the low-value output of what they produce. (Note MOST, I recognise that there are hi-tech industries).

Labour-intensive rice farming is NEVER going to produce high returns, but if 5 men using broad-acre methods and machinery did the work of 500, a reasonable wage could be achieved.

To achieve high-value input you need better education, which can't be achieved while you're paying billions in subsidies for rice. But it gets you into government.

[tragickingdom]

It sounds all logical except than for the fact that there are lots of free handouts for the elite and for failing companies too.Forgot a insurance cover for your factory: The state must help. Tourism is doing bad: THe Nation is the first to call for support for hotel owners and that comes on top of the lowest minimum wages in all of Asia. Everybody talks about Foxconn, but we all know that those people are working in far better circumstances than let's say the people working for Seagate. Wester Digital or any other company in Thailand for less than a quarter of the wage.

Yes skills are important but the lack of it is due to the failing school system in Thaland. That must fail because the ruling class thrives on chaos, they need very cheap labor and hardly care about their employees. The sole fact that the Nation supported whole heartedly the yellow shirts and said that the poor were too dumb to vote and were prone to corruption might be viewed slightly different after the fraud and corruption conviction of one of their leaders who will be followed by many...

[fire and ice]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I have an 8y/o Thai step daughter who has been in going to school in Sydney for 2 years now (previously at a private Bangkok infants school). Late last year (as a result of her Sydney infants schools teaching) she was already able to use MS Word to make very good formatted documents using multiple word features. Of course the work was of an 8 year old's standard, but the point is she can use the software! I was quite stunned she could do this, and equally stunned that many Thai university graduates barely have enough PC skills. ..then again many Thai uni "graduates" have essentially bought their degrees and learnt nothing.

[poach]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Certainly not the Shinawatra family, they know how to get laws passed to exempt their taxes, no matter how many billions of baht profit.

Edited March 3, 2012 by poach

[Gweiloman]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Tax is collected in a different way in Thailand and not on wages / salary, unless you reach a certain amount...! Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

Singapore, no income tax? What's that steroid you're on again?

[poach]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Tax is collected in a different way in Thailand and not on wages / salary, unless you reach a certain amount...! Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

Singapore, no income tax? What's that steroid you're on again?

True enough, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Singapore

[473geo]

IMHO most Thais work long hours for very low wages, mainly because of the low value-input of their work, and the low-value output of what they produce. (Note MOST, I recognise that there are hi-tech industries).

Labour-intensive rice farming is NEVER going to produce high returns, but if 5 men using broad-acre methods and machinery did the work of 500, a reasonable wage could be achieved.

To achieve high-value input you need better education, which can't be achieved while you're paying billions in subsidies for rice. But it gets you into government.

You advocate the dispersal of one of the major back up support systems in Thailand, the family plot, free acommodation and subsistence if a person has no work. a place to go and survive while seeking out new opportunities............

The alternative is to implement a tax system whereby your mechanised farming corporations pay to replace that you seek to take away.......

Myself I prefer the current more humane and low adminastrative system

[poach]

Work requires skills. Skills require knowledge. Knowledge requires training. Training requires education. ......And so we come back to root of many issues in this country,

Should an employer need an educated worker, the employer will have to provide that education.

[Nikki1611]

I'm a Singaporean and i work and pay income tax! Unless a person who works in Singapore earns less than S$30,000/annum (that is 720,000baht/annum), you don't pay income tax.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Nikki1611

[473geo]

Work requires skills. Skills require knowledge. Knowledge requires training. Training requires education. ......And so we come back to root of many issues in this country,

Should an employer need an educated worker, the employer will have to provide that education.

I favour encouragement for apprentice based employment education and training, to support the university education. Experience can be a useful teacher.

[Unkomoncents]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I take it from your reply that you are a teacher and from your reply, this is a step in the right direction to address education in the long term.

What the article is talking about is people that have been laid off due to the flood situation, and with all honesty, i don't see that being able to format an excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop is going to be an advantage to say a 4G qualified welder or a crane operator. I am not having a go at foreign teachers here, but the general mind set from them is based on the curriculum that they follow in the classroom, as it should be, but with no reality of the actual working areas of Thailand.

In my opinion, for the greater part, there is too much emphasis given to English language learning in this country and more of this time should be given to teaching trades. The majority of Thais will never get to a position where they will need to speak English, and those that do make it, and show the potential should be afforded the knowledge of the language teachers. This is the harsh reality of Thailand.

BTW, if the school you are at can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop for its students, then you are far above the general working Thais educational limits to begin with.

It might be reasonable to scrap the English in the short-term to focus on more immediate needs, but that isn't a good long-term plan. Capitalism rewards quality and the world is an interconnected, global marketplace where citizens of all nations will be forced to compete with one another for resources and jobs. No one in China, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan or any other serious developed country or developing country (in China's case) would earnestly suggest what you are suggesting for there own people over the long-term, especially if there was any real desire to achieve the success of some of the aforementioned countries (with relatively high standards of living compared to Thailand). If you don't see the benefits of being able to use basic computer software, well, that's your prerogative. I don't think there is really any legitimate argument to contradict what I am saying. The only negative response you could have would be "No, they shouldn't learn more" or, as in your case, "No, we should teach them something different from what you said we should teach." Your argument is valid and I have nothing more to say on this subject. However, I would add that I have Thai family members that I've had to work with extensively so as to create a basic modicum of computer understanding so that they could get a decent job outside the hotel industry. I was successful, and now my wife (I also worked with her brother) works for Raffles International College as Student Services Coordinator (she got there with no hi-so background, a Thai Associate's Degree, and three years of hotel industry experience). I can tell you flat out that I was shocked at the lack of BASIC computer skills coming from university graduates in Thailand. Another commenter has backed up my claim (from Australia). I have talked with dozens of other Thais and foreigners, in and out of the education industry, and I've never had anyone disagree with that assessment. This isn't some kind of abstract, game changing suggestion, such as: "We need to change the culture of mai pen rai." This is, I believe, the most reasonable, practical piece of advice I could add to the educational-issues-in-Thailand debate.

[jalansanitwong]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Tax is collected in a different way in Thailand and not on wages / salary, unless you reach a certain amount...! Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

Singapore, no income tax? What's that steroid you're on again?

What about bar girls . How do they pay tax.What about mom and pops in the provinces making 100 baht/day. They pay tax????????

Edited March 3, 2012 by metisdead
Repaired the reply, when replying to a post, make your entry outside the quote tags.

[OzMick]

IMHO most Thais work long hours for very low wages, mainly because of the low value-input of their work, and the low-value output of what they produce. (Note MOST, I recognise that there are hi-tech industries).

Labour-intensive rice farming is NEVER going to produce high returns, but if 5 men using broad-acre methods and machinery did the work of 500, a reasonable wage could be achieved.

To achieve high-value input you need better education, which can't be achieved while you're paying billions in subsidies for rice. But it gets you into government.

You advocate the dispersal of one of the major back up support systems in Thailand, the family plot, free acommodation and subsistence if a person has no work. a place to go and survive while seeking out new opportunities............

The alternative is to implement a tax system whereby your mechanised farming corporations pay to replace that you seek to take away.......

Myself I prefer the current more humane and low adminastrative system

Your system has people working in back-breaking labour but still requiring subsidies to make a survivable income. But they get a vote, don't they. Why move into the 20th century, even though the rest of the world is in the 21st.

[poach]

I'm a Singaporean and i work and pay income tax! Unless a person who works in Singapore earns less than S$30,000/annum (that is 720,000baht/annum), you don't pay income tax.

Thailand or at least Bangkok should be as nice as sing.

[473geo]

IMHO most Thais work long hours for very low wages, mainly because of the low value-input of their work, and the low-value output of what they produce. (Note MOST, I recognise that there are hi-tech industries).

Labour-intensive rice farming is NEVER going to produce high returns, but if 5 men using broad-acre methods and machinery did the work of 500, a reasonable wage could be achieved.

To achieve high-value input you need better education, which can't be achieved while you're paying billions in subsidies for rice. But it gets you into government.

You advocate the dispersal of one of the major back up support systems in Thailand, the family plot, free acommodation and subsistence if a person has no work. a place to go and survive while seeking out new opportunities............

The alternative is to implement a tax system whereby your mechanised farming corporations pay to replace that you seek to take away.......

Myself I prefer the current more humane and low adminastrative system

Your system has people working in back-breaking labour but still requiring subsidies to make a survivable income. But they get a vote, don't they. Why move into the 20th century, even though the rest of the world is in the 21st.

No my system has the majority of smallholders utilising mechanical assistance for their crop growing and harvesting......enabled by the rice subsidies.....which hopefully will deter them from selling their base for survival and not push the responsibility for their future survival onto a high administrative cost government tax system

FYI are not most of the governments in the rest of the world almost bankrupt.......and rapidly cutting back on welfare benefits where possible?

Edited March 3, 2012 by 473geo

[anterian]

At this moment in time most of the adult population only have skills in manual type activities, farming, building, construction work, machine tending, etc The chances of these retraining for higher technical skills are zero, so we look to the next generation. Unfortunately the next generation seems content to model itself on the present generation.

[chrisinth]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I take it from your reply that you are a teacher and from your reply, this is a step in the right direction to address education in the long term.

What the article is talking about is people that have been laid off due to the flood situation, and with all honesty, i don't see that being able to format an excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop is going to be an advantage to say a 4G qualified welder or a crane operator. I am not having a go at foreign teachers here, but the general mind set from them is based on the curriculum that they follow in the classroom, as it should be, but with no reality of the actual working areas of Thailand.

In my opinion, for the greater part, there is too much emphasis given to English language learning in this country and more of this time should be given to teaching trades. The majority of Thais will never get to a position where they will need to speak English, and those that do make it, and show the potential should be afforded the knowledge of the language teachers. This is the harsh reality of Thailand.

BTW, if the school you are at can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop for its students, then you are far above the general working Thais educational limits to begin with.

It might be reasonable to scrap the English in the short-term to focus on more immediate needs, but that isn't a good long-term plan. Capitalism rewards quality and the world is an interconnected, global marketplace where citizens of all nations will be forced to compete with one another for resources and jobs. No one in China, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan or any other serious developed country or developing country (in China's case) would earnestly suggest what you are suggesting for there own people over the long-term, especially if there was any real desire to achieve the success of some of the aforementioned countries (with relatively high standards of living compared to Thailand). If you don't see the benefits of being able to use basic computer software, well, that's your prerogative. I don't think there is really any legitimate argument to contradict what I am saying. The only negative response you could have would be "No, they shouldn't learn more" or, as in your case, "No, we should teach them something different from what you said we should teach." Your argument is valid and I have nothing more to say on this subject. However, I would add that I have Thai family members that I've had to work with extensively so as to create a basic modicum of computer understanding so that they could get a decent job outside the hotel industry. I was successful, and now my wife (I also worked with her brother) works for Raffles International College as Student Services Coordinator (she got there with no hi-so background, a Thai Associate's Degree, and three years of hotel industry experience). I can tell you flat out that I was shocked at the lack of BASIC computer skills coming from university graduates in Thailand. Another commenter has backed up my claim (from Australia). I have talked with dozens of other Thais and foreigners, in and out of the education industry, and I've never had anyone disagree with that assessment. This isn't some kind of abstract, game changing suggestion, such as: "We need to change the culture of mai pen rai." This is, I believe, the most reasonable, practical piece of advice I could add to the educational-issues-in-Thailand debate.

If everybody is using the computers, who is going to make them? It is a wonderful ideal that everyone can use a computer, but the basic facts of life are that not everybody will.

I go back to my examples of the welder and crane driver. Not everybody can be the CEO; but take away the tea lady, the office goes to sh1t.................

Give the guys and girls a trade; i am speaking of the masses here not the privileged. It is not a case of depriving anyone of their education, it is a case of being realistic as cruel as that may sound.

[Unkomoncents]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I take it from your reply that you are a teacher and from your reply, this is a step in the right direction to address education in the long term.

What the article is talking about is people that have been laid off due to the flood situation, and with all honesty, i don't see that being able to format an excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop is going to be an advantage to say a 4G qualified welder or a crane operator. I am not having a go at foreign teachers here, but the general mind set from them is based on the curriculum that they follow in the classroom, as it should be, but with no reality of the actual working areas of Thailand.

In my opinion, for the greater part, there is too much emphasis given to English language learning in this country and more of this time should be given to teaching trades. The majority of Thais will never get to a position where they will need to speak English, and those that do make it, and show the potential should be afforded the knowledge of the language teachers. This is the harsh reality of Thailand.

BTW, if the school you are at can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop for its students, then you are far above the general working Thais educational limits to begin with.

It might be reasonable to scrap the English in the short-term to focus on more immediate needs, but that isn't a good long-term plan. Capitalism rewards quality and the world is an interconnected, global marketplace where citizens of all nations will be forced to compete with one another for resources and jobs. No one in China, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan or any other serious developed country or developing country (in China's case) would earnestly suggest what you are suggesting for there own people over the long-term, especially if there was any real desire to achieve the success of some of the aforementioned countries (with relatively high standards of living compared to Thailand). If you don't see the benefits of being able to use basic computer software, well, that's your prerogative. I don't think there is really any legitimate argument to contradict what I am saying. The only negative response you could have would be "No, they shouldn't learn more" or, as in your case, "No, we should teach them something different from what you said we should teach." Your argument is valid and I have nothing more to say on this subject. However, I would add that I have Thai family members that I've had to work with extensively so as to create a basic modicum of computer understanding so that they could get a decent job outside the hotel industry. I was successful, and now my wife (I also worked with her brother) works for Raffles International College as Student Services Coordinator (she got there with no hi-so background, a Thai Associate's Degree, and three years of hotel industry experience). I can tell you flat out that I was shocked at the lack of BASIC computer skills coming from university graduates in Thailand. Another commenter has backed up my claim (from Australia). I have talked with dozens of other Thais and foreigners, in and out of the education industry, and I've never had anyone disagree with that assessment. This isn't some kind of abstract, game changing suggestion, such as: "We need to change the culture of mai pen rai." This is, I believe, the most reasonable, practical piece of advice I could add to the educational-issues-in-Thailand debate.

If everybody is using the computers, who is going to make them? It is a wonderful ideal that everyone can use a computer, but the basic facts of life are that not everybody will.

I go back to my examples of the welder and crane driver. Not everybody can be the CEO; but take away the tea lady, the office goes to sh1t.................

Give the guys and girls a trade; i am speaking of the masses here not the privileged. It is not a case of depriving anyone of their education, it is a case of being realistic as cruel as that may sound.

I understand what you are saying and I don't think that's cruel at all. It's true. I just don't happen to know any crane operators or welders. All the Thais I know or am friends with are from Bangkok. The majority work in the hotel industry, at local retailers, or run their own businesses. I do not claim to speak for all Thais at all, I just know that I've seen so many situations where some basic computer skills would make life so much easier (especially for Thai entrepreneurs that start their own clothing businesses, for example; Excel is a godsend for basic bookkeeping). Thais spend between upwards of 8,000 THB per term on local education. Many of the bilingual schools and EP programs in Bangkok are charging between 50,000 and 150,000 THB per term. That's a lot of money. I suppose these are the people I'm thinking of as I suggest computer education classes. Thais spend more than people in Singapore and Taiwan spend on education. The results, as we would all acknowledge, are lacking. This is a great article, though it definitely misses the boat on some of the deeper elements of life in Thailand (class stratification, etc.):

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/30/us-thailand-education-idUSTRE74T0NV20110530

[poach]

Starting right now, educators in this country need to stop with the "mai pen rai"/don't think too much-attitude. They need to start training Thai people to become skilled or at least semi-skilled in a range of different vocational skills. Language and ESPECIALLY computer skills need to be taken seriously (most Thais graduate and can barely type, let alone format an Excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop; skills seem relegated to the Angry Birds category). They need to take the Thai teachers out of the classroom during English lessons, adopt a curriculum or at least some curricular standards, and set a standardized 40000 THB/per month entry wage for degree-qualified foreign English teachers (who should pass a police background check and health check, which will weed out most of the lames, drunks, and pedophiles). Then the government needs to work to provide a variety of meaningful, well-paid occupations to Thai people who show special initiative and skills (NOT money). Do I think these things could happen? Sure. But not today, or tomorrow, or the next day, or many, many days to come. Firstly, the government's right arm needs to stop fighting with it's left arm everytime something is to be done.

I take it from your reply that you are a teacher and from your reply, this is a step in the right direction to address education in the long term.

What the article is talking about is people that have been laid off due to the flood situation, and with all honesty, i don't see that being able to format an excel spreadsheet or use Photoshop is going to be an advantage to say a 4G qualified welder or a crane operator. I am not having a go at foreign teachers here, but the general mind set from them is based on the curriculum that they follow in the classroom, as it should be, but with no reality of the actual working areas of Thailand.

In my opinion, for the greater part, there is too much emphasis given to English language learning in this country and more of this time should be given to teaching trades. The majority of Thais will never get to a position where they will need to speak English, and those that do make it, and show the potential should be afforded the knowledge of the language teachers. This is the harsh reality of Thailand.

BTW, if the school you are at can afford legal licences for Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop for its students, then you are far above the general working Thais educational limits to begin with.

It might be reasonable to scrap the English in the short-term to focus on more immediate needs, but that isn't a good long-term plan. Capitalism rewards quality and the world is an interconnected, global marketplace where citizens of all nations will be forced to compete with one another for resources and jobs. No one in China, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan or any other serious developed country or developing country (in China's case) would earnestly suggest what you are suggesting for there own people over the long-term, especially if there was any real desire to achieve the success of some of the aforementioned countries (with relatively high standards of living compared to Thailand). If you don't see the benefits of being able to use basic computer software, well, that's your prerogative. I don't think there is really any legitimate argument to contradict what I am saying. The only negative response you could have would be "No, they shouldn't learn more" or, as in your case, "No, we should teach them something different from what you said we should teach." Your argument is valid and I have nothing more to say on this subject. However, I would add that I have Thai family members that I've had to work with extensively so as to create a basic modicum of computer understanding so that they could get a decent job outside the hotel industry. I was successful, and now my wife (I also worked with her brother) works for Raffles International College as Student Services Coordinator (she got there with no hi-so background, a Thai Associate's Degree, and three years of hotel industry experience). I can tell you flat out that I was shocked at the lack of BASIC computer skills coming from university graduates in Thailand. Another commenter has backed up my claim (from Australia). I have talked with dozens of other Thais and foreigners, in and out of the education industry, and I've never had anyone disagree with that assessment. This isn't some kind of abstract, game changing suggestion, such as: "We need to change the culture of mai pen rai." This is, I believe, the most reasonable, practical piece of advice I could add to the educational-issues-in-Thailand debate.

If everybody is using the computers, who is going to make them? It is a wonderful ideal that everyone can use a computer, but the basic facts of life are that not everybody will.

I go back to my examples of the welder and crane driver. Not everybody can be the CEO; but take away the tea lady, the office goes to sh1t.................

Give the guys and girls a trade; i am speaking of the masses here not the privileged. It is not a case of depriving anyone of their education, it is a case of being realistic as cruel as that may sound.

Anybody can be a CEO, just like anybody can be a PM.

[OzMick]

IMHO most Thais work long hours for very low wages, mainly because of the low value-input of their work, and the low-value output of what they produce. (Note MOST, I recognise that there are hi-tech industries).

Labour-intensive rice farming is NEVER going to produce high returns, but if 5 men using broad-acre methods and machinery did the work of 500, a reasonable wage could be achieved.

To achieve high-value input you need better education, which can't be achieved while you're paying billions in subsidies for rice. But it gets you into government.

You advocate the dispersal of one of the major back up support systems in Thailand, the family plot, free acommodation and subsistence if a person has no work. a place to go and survive while seeking out new opportunities............

The alternative is to implement a tax system whereby your mechanised farming corporations pay to replace that you seek to take away.......

Myself I prefer the current more humane and low adminastrative system

Your system has people working in back-breaking labour but still requiring subsidies to make a survivable income. But they get a vote, don't they. Why move into the 20th century, even though the rest of the world is in the 21st.

No my system has the majority of smallholders utilising mechanical assistance for their crop growing and harvesting......enabled by the rice subsidies.....which hopefully will deter them from selling their base for survival and not push the responsibility for their future survival onto a high administrative cost government tax system

FYI are not most of the governments in the rest of the world almost bankrupt.......and rapidly cutting back on welfare benefits where possible?

5555 - except for Thailand which is on the way to broke and increasing its welfare payments to rice farmers. You confuse me as you sound like a Republican anti-tax crossed with a Democrat welfare-state - a very strange hybrid indeed.

I know that doing so is difficult for you, but could you back your opinion with some fact. What is a reasonable income for a rice-farmer in your opinion? How many rai and crops would that require? What percentage of the population should live in working poverty requiring welfare subsidies from the taxpayers?

Let's hope you can do better than your Yingluk support post.

[473geo]

Ozmick, when your ability to ask a reasonable question in a reasonable manner is more evident you may garner a response to your questions, until such time I hope you do not find the absence of an explanation too "difficult" to understand

[rotary]

Welfare system?? Comprehensive assistance? Who is going to pay for it if only 6% of the workforce pays taxes.

Dream on.

Tax is collected in a different way in Thailand and not on wages / salary, unless you reach a certain amount...! Many countries do not have income tax and manage extremely well.. Singapore for example.. You are Very narrow minded to think all countries operate in a similar style to your own.. In reality , income tax is a very stupid way to collect tax, and employs too many people on too big salaries.. But...Jobs for the Bhoys comes to mind..

100% correct.......there are much better ways to tax than taxing the working back bone of a country.