Thai Culture, Do Men Attend Births?

[theblether]

A discussion on another topic is talking about sitting next to your partners bed and despairing about their health, it got me thinking about the one time when I truly despaired about the health of my then wife.

I attended the birth of two of my children, I had heard all the talk about it being the best experience of your life and I was looking forward to it. Then I got a shock, for me it was far from the best experience of my life. To watch my wife endure a particularly difficult birth was an emotional torture for me. The one thing that we men set out to do is to protect our wives from pain and suffering and to watch helplessly as they endure those things is a turmoil.

By the time the baby was born there was no moment of joy for me, there was a desperation for the pain to be over for my wife. Don't get me wrong, 2 minutes later when the baby was washed and put into my arms that paternal love came bouncing in, but I will never forget that feeling just before the birth, A despair, a desperation for it to be over.

I can see now why the maternity room used to be a woman's world. Now the fashion is for men to attend the birth and women look at you like your a freak when you say you didn't enjoy the experience. So no, I didn't enjoy watching my wife go through the agony of childbirth. That applies to both births, although the second one was worse.

What is the culture in Thailand? Are men expected to attend births here? have you attended a birth in Thailand? What is the role of the man at this time? Is there a christening ceremony?

What was your experience of your child's birth whatever country you were in?

So there you have it, I put my hands up and admit I hated watching the births, I hated watching my wife in such pain, and at times I despaired.

Naturally though, there was no prouder father at the showing of the baby .

ps It will be interesting to see what our female members think.

[ludditeman]

Men aren't allowed into the delivery ward at government hospitals.

If it's at night the men are often told to go home, and they will be contacted after the delivery.

After the birth, the lady and baby are wheeled out, for you to see.

Then they either goto a private room (after you pay) where you can stay with them.

Or a public ward where visiting times are strictly at fixed times (usually afternoons only)

I was ordered home at 6pm, along with all the other men.

I was recalled just after 9pm, to see mother, baby and pay for a private room.

Edited March 3, 2012 by ludditeman

[scorecard]

Men aren't allowed into the delivery ward at government hospitals.

If it's at night the men are often told to go home, and they will be contacted after the delivery.

After the birth, the lady and baby are wheeled out, for you to see.

Then they either goto a private room (after you pay) where you can stay with them.

Or a public ward where visiting times are strictly at fixed times (usually afternoons only)

I was ordered home at 6pm, along with all the other men.

I was recalled just after 9pm, to see mother, baby and pay for a private room.

"Men aren't allowed into the delivery ward at government hospitals." This and more blanket statements.

My Thai son was present, at the bedside for the birth of his daughter in a government hospital in Bangkok (specifically a maternity hospital).

He was glad he attended, he shared that he was quite upset to see his wife in pain, and shared that the staff were professional and caring.

They had already visited the (govt.) hospital months in advance and were quite impressed. My son grew up seeing both Thai government hospitals and places like Bumrumg....... in Bkk, and was not all that impressed with so called 5 star places (see later comment).

In advance they chose a shared ward. When my DIL was admitted the nurse handling the paper asked, politely, if they wished to upgrade. They said no, but after the birth my son changed his mind and his wife went to a pvt room. No pressure.

Later. Granddaughter, at 4 years old, admitted to Bumrumg..... with pneumonia. Nursing staff arrogant and lacking in professionalism. By this time son had divorced birth mother and remarried. Son had to explain again and again that the two female adults present were the birth mother and the new step mother. Nursing staff made no attempt to understand or be sensitive, plus on two occasions mixed the patient names and were about to give wrong medication.

[473geo]

My wife told me the baby was coming, at 9pm we went to the hospital accompanied by relatives and family, she went into the maternity wing and I waited with the immediate family outside, I was neither offered, nor did I suggest witnessing the actual birth. (I have witnessed hundreds of births having being brought up on a farm)

At around midnight it was suggested I go home and sleep, I politely refused, at around 1 am the midwife appeared at the door, and the family rushed forward, to my surprise the midwife made her way past the family and came over to me announcing that I had a son, he and my wife were fine, she then told the family in Thai

An hour or so later we were all allowed to visit my wife and son on the open ward, some kind soul produced a mat from somewhere and placed it on the floor under the bed of my wife and I was allowed to stay with my wife over night, and of course all the other ladies and relatives who were doing the self same thing, water and food was often passed around, there was a great atmosphere

I only left the hospital to go shower and to return with snacks, I stayed with my wife for three days, no comments or issues, friendly and cheerful staff

Yes this was a government hospital, everything went just fine

[SteeleJoe]

...I was neither offered, nor did I suggest witnessing the actual birth. (I have witnessed hundreds of births having being brought up on a farm)

You've seen hundreds of farm animals (presumably) born so that's why you didn't need to see the birth of your own child?

I think maybe you miss the point of why some choose to be there -- it's not the novelty of seeing something born...--

[hellodolly]

Back then men weren't allowed in the delivery room do I went out and got drunk.

[473geo]

...I was neither offered, nor did I suggest witnessing the actual birth. (I have witnessed hundreds of births having being brought up on a farm)

You've seen hundreds of farm animals (presumably) born so that's why you didn't need to see the birth of your own child?

I think maybe you miss the point of why some choose to be there -- it's not the novelty of seeing something born...--

...I was neither offered, nor did I suggest witnessing the actual birth. (I have witnessed hundreds of births having being brought up on a farm)

You've seen hundreds of farm animals (presumably) born so that's why you didn't need to see the birth of your own child?

I think maybe you miss the point of why some choose to be there -- it's not the novelty of seeing something born...--

I don't give a stuff about novelty which is why I know if my wife wanted me there she would have requested my presence, what I am saying is, having seen hundreds of births the actual act of birth held no mystery and certainly no draw for me. There is nothing special for me seeing my wife in pain, I cannot assist, I would probably be a distraction, better to let my wife just get on with the job she proved more than capable of doing

Maybe some wives feel it is supportive to have the husband around to share......well to share what exactly.....and you want to know something, I think it takes a while for the features of a baby to settle down after the birth trauma before they can be called beautiful........

But hey being at the birth changes all that, right?

Edited March 3, 2012 by 473geo

[waza]

I wittnessed the births of all my three children, infact I delivered the second one my only daughter. However, all were born in Australia, I have no plans for any further children so I will never see a birth in Thailand

[kwonitoy]

My son was born last Aug at a private hospital (Aek Udon, in Udon Thani)

As it was a C section due to being 4 weeks early it was an operation and not a delivery, so I was not a witness.

I waited outside the operationing rooom, when it was finished I was immediately taken to see her, and then taken to the ward where my son was, and taken inside to see him. I was allowed access to the maternity ward at any time I wanted, no time limits. Because he was a bit early he was in an incubator for 24 hr, and then put in the normal ward after showing no problems.

She had a private room that had an extra suite for me to stay in, so I was at the hospital 24hr a day. That's one aspect of a Thai hospital that they do have right, in my home country in a hospital while it my be free, you are treated as an intruder by the hospital staff, with very limited access.

The second day she was taken by wheelchair to see her boy, and on the morning of the fourth day we all loaded up into the truck and went home

[draftvader]

We were told in a variety of government and private hospitals in Bangkok that I would not be allowed to be in for the actual birth stage of delivery. In the end (due to the flooding) I delivered my daughter in the bathroom of the apartment we rented in Phuket as our home during the flooding.

Speaking to many Thai women we know (both hi-so and lo-so) the attendance of the husband at the birth is not common and not encouraged. Being that most births in Thailand are C-Section (a disgusting number in reality) this is not suprising. The reason we were given was that of hygiene (like, guys....I have been there you know...that's how come we have a baby in there!!!).

[NanLaew]

My wife and I both intended that I be there for the moment (private hospital, normal birth) but due to a combination of the wee tyke deciding that the doctor's best estimate of 1pm was too late and that it takes about an hour for Index Mall to process a <deleted>' payment, I missed it. Since Mother-in-Law also skedaddled at the 11th hour, my wife is saying bugger the furniture next time and insists I be there for (we hope) the daughter.

[Ricardo]

I couldn't imagine not being there, when my wife gave birth in the UK, and needed me for support & interpretation. When your wife most needs you, for birth or death, how can you not be by her side ?

[jingjoe8]

My boy was born in banglamung hospital last october,i was present for the labour and birth,i only got kicked out of the ward after taking photos of the birth,they politely asked me to sit outside while they cleaned him up and when our son was back in my wifes arms i was invited back in.Banglamung is a govt hospital,i think we were charged the lowly sum of 30bht,we then booked a private suite for two nights,we had 24hour nursing service,separate bedroom and lounge with 2 flatscreen tvs,private bathroom,fridge and jug 3 meals a day and i could bring my own beer in total cost 2400bht

All my friends said watching the birth would be a life changing event,truthfully, i sat and waited for 6 hours with wife during the labour and when baby was born it was like watching a movie,i really didn't get the earth moving experience i was expecting.

Now 4 months down the track he smiles at me with these big beautiful brown eyes and now i understand what people were saying about having children

[473geo]

I couldn't imagine not being there, when my wife gave birth in the UK, and needed me for support & interpretation. When your wife most needs you, for birth or death, how can you not be by her side ?

I guess it is up to the individual, but I know my wife would prefer the midwife and nurses by her side before me, your wife may be different

I accept however if there is a need for an interpreter that is different.......I guess your Thai is excellent if you can talk your wife through the birth process, fair play to you there....

[SteeleJoe]

I don't give a stuff about novelty which is why I know if my wife wanted me there she would have requested my presence, what I am saying is, having seen hundreds of births the actual act of birth held no mystery and certainly no draw for me. There is nothing special for me seeing my wife in pain, I cannot assist, I would probably be a distraction, better to let my wife just get on with the job she proved more than capable of doing

Maybe some wives feel it is supportive to have the husband around to share......well to share what exactly.....and you want to know something, I think it takes a while for the features of a baby to settle down after the birth trauma before they can be called beautiful........

But hey being at the birth changes all that, right?

Yes, the novelty comment was facetious -- meant to highlight the fact that having seen "hundreds" of animals born makes zero difference to whether one wishes to see the birth of one's child or not.

It makes zero difference to me whether you or anyone else doesn't want to be in the delivery room. But I seriously doubt that most fathers who do choose to be there are there because 'the actual act of birth held mystery for them' or was a draw to them; nor were they likely there because 'seeing their wife in pain was special for them' or to assist.

For myself, I wanted to share the experience with my wife and she wanted to share it with me. More than that, I wanted to be present during the two very most important events of my entire life.

To share what? Hmmm...how about the birth of your children? Seems like kind of a big deal to me. And the aesthetic beauty of the child is not what would make it special (who gives a toss if "they can be called beautiful"?!)

Again -- that you and/or your wife didn't feel the same is none of my business and makes no difference to me, but I can't help but marvel in some amusement that you apparently think seeing one's wife give birth to your own child is no different than seeing a farm animal giving birth to its offspring and that the only reason to be in the room would be if one hadn't seen an animal born or one was going to assist or one wanted to see their wife in pain, and that since the baby isn't beautiful at birth there's no reason to see it then -- and that you seemingly take it for granted that others see it that way.

[SteeleJoe]

I couldn't imagine not being there, when my wife gave birth in the UK, and needed me for support & interpretation. When your wife most needs you, for birth or death, how can you not be by her side ?

I guess it is up to the individual, but I know my wife would prefer the midwife and nurses by her side before me, your wife may be different

I accept however if there is a need for an interpreter that is different.......I guess your Thai is excellent if you can talk your wife through the birth process, fair play to you there....

Believe it or not, people don't typically have to choose between the husband or the midwife and nurses et al. I didn't kick out the OB/GYN, the Pediatrician or the nurses...

EDIT:

Oh, and my wife left it entirely up to me -- but was very glad (and not at all surprised) that I chose to be there; It would have been very unfortunate had she not wanted me there because I've always known that's what I wanted -- long before I met her.

Edited March 4, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[473geo]

I couldn't imagine not being there, when my wife gave birth in the UK, and needed me for support & interpretation. When your wife most needs you, for birth or death, how can you not be by her side ?

I guess it is up to the individual, but I know my wife would prefer the midwife and nurses by her side before me, your wife may be different

I accept however if there is a need for an interpreter that is different.......I guess your Thai is excellent if you can talk your wife through the birth process, fair play to you there....

Believe it or not, people don't typically have to choose between the husband or the midwife and nurses et al. I didn't kick out the OB/GYN, the Pediatrician or the nurses...

EDIT:

Oh, and my wife left it entirely up to me -- but was very glad (and not at all surprised) that I chose to be there; It would have been very unfortunate had she not wanted me there because I've always known that's what I wanted -- long before I met her.

I take nothing for granted as said in your other post, when I made the comment about having experienced many births (animals) I expected there would be pick up on the remark.........to my mind you are correct, different people have differing requirements and expectations, my wife was wonderfully calm, organised and composed when carrying and producing our son, it was her that carried the child, it was her that would go through the pain and effort of birth, in short it was her show. I am not selfish enough to require the Tshirt that says I attended the birth of my child, I was not invited I felt no compulsion to intrude. Why? because I have experienced birth many times over, I don't know what you can not understand about this. My wife is a strong and capable person she did not require any assistance from me.

I do not take for granted that there are many women out there who carry the qualities of my wife, she is an incredible person, and certainly would not want me in the room just to be able to say afterwards I witnessed the birth..........my children too have never asked if I saw them born in the hospital.....don't ask me why but it just does not appear to be all that important.........

[Semper]

Do Men Attend Births?

Some do, I wonder why.

[ludditeman]

Do Men Attend Births?

Some do, I wonder why.

I attended one in the UK a while back (caved under pressure).

It was so disgusting I almost puked on the baby as it came out.

[GooEng]

Missed the birth of 1st son as I was offshore working when he arrived so I was keen to be there for the second son's birth.

Bangkok hospital in Korat were happy to accommodate me in the delivery room when the wife had her Caesarian, but I have to admit I found the whole experience quite unenjoyable.

Wife was in pain at the start and scared and upset then out of it on gas and morphine and the procedure was a good deal more visceral and rigorous than I expected - lots of pumping of abdomen, then pulling and squeezing etc. Looked awful, even given the limited view I had from where I was cowering.

Afterwards she wasn't really aware I'd been there and I wished I hadn't been.

Wife now tells me that unless she's promised FULL anaesthesia there will be NO next time and as long as I'm by her side when she wakes up she's happy, so I'll be outside with a handful of cigars and a hip flask waiting to be summoned.

[pastitche]

Missed the birth of 1st son as I was offshore working when he arrived so I was keen to be there for the second son's birth.

Bangkok hospital in Korat were happy to accommodate me in the delivery room when the wife had her Caesarian, but I have to admit I found the whole experience quite unenjoyable.

Wife was in pain at the start and scared and upset then out of it on gas and morphine and the procedure was a good deal more visceral and rigorous than I expected - lots of pumping of abdomen, then pulling and squeezing etc. Looked awful, even given the limited view I had from where I was cowering.

Afterwards she wasn't really aware I'd been there and I wished I hadn't been.

Wife now tells me that unless she's promised FULL anaesthesia there will be NO next time and as long as I'm by her side when she wakes up she's happy, so I'll be outside with a handful of cigars and a hip flask waiting to be summoned.

My first child was married this week - at the time of her birth I was working in the psychiatric hospital on the same site as the general hospital she was born in (in the UK). I went to seemy wife when my shift finished: she was effectively delirious from the drugs she had been given and when I went and spoke to the ward sister to tell her I was concerned about the distress she was in, I was told to go home and phone in 3 hours. In actual fact the baby's head was obtruding by that time so she was born before I got home.

My son was born far more conveniently, a much shorter labour on a weekend but even then I was hustled out of the delivery room before the event.

In neither case was I present and to be honest I would not have wished to be, childbirth is not something I want to witness. I will upset some people but I do not know of a society/culture where males are expected to be present other than late 20th century Western countries.

Edited March 4, 2012 by pastitche

[SteeleJoe]

I take nothing for granted as said in your other post, when I made the comment about having experienced many births (animals) I expected there would be pick up on the remark.........to my mind you are correct, different people have differing requirements and expectations, my wife was wonderfully calm, organised and composed when carrying and producing our son, it was her that carried the child, it was her that would go through the pain and effort of birth, in short it was her show. I am not selfish enough to require the Tshirt that says I attended the birth of my child, I was not invited I felt no compulsion to intrude. Why? because I have experienced birth many times over, I don't know what you can not understand about this. My wife is a strong and capable person she did not require any assistance from me.

I do not take for granted that there are many women out there who carry the qualities of my wife, she is an incredible person, and certainly would not want me in the room just to be able to say afterwards I witnessed the birth..........my children too have never asked if I saw them born in the hospital.....don't ask me why but it just does not appear to be all that important.........

-- My wife was probably more composed than me and is the strongest person I've ever known. I wasn't there to keep her calm or organized.

-- It wasn't "her show", it was the birth of our children -- the fact that she carried the child, went through the pain and effort of birth didn't change that. Obviously I could do relatively very little to lessen any of the burden of carrying our children or giving birth to them -- though I did what I could -- but that doesn't mean that moral support was of no use. Nonetheless I wanted to be there for my own personal reasons and she certainly didn't object.

-- I don't know what was selfish about wanting to be there and your reference to a T-shirt is ridiculous and gratuitously insulting: very few people I know have any idea of whether I attended the birth of my children and I've never once made it a point to tell anyone. You can imply that I did it for some sort of bragging rights -- and thus assume that I was lying in my previous post -- but I did it for me, my wife and my kids. End of.

-- I do understand that you have experienced birth many times over. It's not hard concept to grasp. What is apparently difficult to grasp -- for you at least -- is that there might be difference for some people between seeing a pig or a cow giving birth and being present at the birth of one's own child. And that it's not about giving assistance. I find it remarkable that you can 't work that out.

-- You passive aggressively implying that your wife is somehow superior to a woman who welcomed her husband's presence is charming but while I don't doubt for a second that she holds all of those admirable traits you ascribe (and more, no doubt) it's not only obnoxious but fallacious to suggest that a father in the delivery room means the mother isn't as "incredible".

-- I wasn't there just to say I had been there. I was there because they were the most important events of my life and my wife was going through something in which I wanted to give whatever support I could, regardless of the fact that it was hardly essential.

[473geo]

I take nothing for granted as said in your other post, when I made the comment about having experienced many births (animals) I expected there would be pick up on the remark.........to my mind you are correct, different people have differing requirements and expectations, my wife was wonderfully calm, organised and composed when carrying and producing our son, it was her that carried the child, it was her that would go through the pain and effort of birth, in short it was her show. I am not selfish enough to require the Tshirt that says I attended the birth of my child, I was not invited I felt no compulsion to intrude. Why? because I have experienced birth many times over, I don't know what you can not understand about this. My wife is a strong and capable person she did not require any assistance from me.

I do not take for granted that there are many women out there who carry the qualities of my wife, she is an incredible person, and certainly would not want me in the room just to be able to say afterwards I witnessed the birth..........my children too have never asked if I saw them born in the hospital.....don't ask me why but it just does not appear to be all that important.........

-- My wife was probably more composed than me and is the strongest person I've ever known. I wasn't there to keep her calm or organized.

-- It wasn't "her show", it was the birth of our children -- the fact that she carried the child, went through the pain and effort of birth didn't change that. Obviously I could do relatively very little to lessen any of the burden of carrying our children or giving birth to them -- though I did what I could -- but that doesn't mean that moral support was of no use. Nonetheless I wanted to be there for my own personal reasons and she certainly didn't object.

-- I don't know what was selfish about wanting to be there and your reference to a T-shirt is ridiculous and gratuitously insulting: very few people I know have any idea of whether I attended the birth of my children and I've never once made it a point to tell anyone. You can imply that I did it for some sort of bragging rights -- and thus assume that I was lying in my previous post -- but I did it for me, my wife and my kids. End of.

-- I do understand that you have experienced birth many times over. It's not hard concept to grasp. What is apparently difficult to grasp -- for you at least -- is that there might be difference for some people between seeing a pig or a cow giving birth and being present at the birth of one's own child. And that it's not about giving assistance. I find it remarkable that you can 't work that out.

-- You passive aggressively implying that your wife is somehow superior to a woman who welcomed her husband's presence is charming but while I don't doubt for a second that she holds all of those admirable traits you ascribe (and more, no doubt) it's not only obnoxious but fallacious to suggest that a father in the delivery room means the mother isn't as "incredible".

-- I wasn't there just to say I had been there. I was there because they were the most important events of my life and my wife was going through something in which I wanted to give whatever support I could, regardless of the fact that it was hardly essential.

You wanted to be there fine....and looking at the tone of your post above why I am I not surprised.....let it go....... I am sure you and your wife had enjoyed the experience of the birth in your own way......as did I

If you really wish to contribute further to the thread, perhaps you could adopt a more positive approach and go into a little more detail into what exactly the husbands who do not attend the actual birth miss out on........that people reading the thread can form an educated opinion

Edited March 4, 2012 by 473geo

[SteeleJoe]

I have no problem letting it go. I reply to your posts, that's all.

You didn't want to be there. Your wife also didn't want you there. That's obviously fine and no business of mine or anyone else's. There was no need to come up with justifications like the fact that you'd seen animals born before or you couldn't assist or it was selfish to be there or it was your wife's undertaking alone or all that other stuff. You felt compelled to somehow make it seem as if your choice was the best one and I responded to that (I actually thought it was funny that you compared to watching farm animals being born and honestly thought you'd agree and reply that you didn't mean it...didn't expect the other rationalizations that were just as untenable to my mind).

As for what you missed out on: it's far too simple to be explained -- although in your case, it would have apparently meant nothing at all and thus you didn't miss out. For me, it was massive and a memory I am grateful to have.

[richard_smith237]

And here this interesting thread starts to degenerate into dick fight... You both win father of the year, now shake hands !!!....

This thread is interesting for me as my wife and I are trying for children... I have often wondered what it would be like to present at the birth. To be frank, I'd rather not be there. The image in my head is not something I wish to realise. I don't wish to see my wife in pain, I don't wish to witness the smells the noises the blood etc...

I certainly have no wish to be at the business end of things, this could tarnish re-entry proceedures later on...

In my head I have already worked out what I might do... I'll talk openly with my wife and simply follow her requests. In my opinion, at this stage the male is simply a passenger, we can only offer the strength of our emotional support.

That said, I suspect that with this being Thailand and my wife being rather petite that I may not be permitted to be present in the likely event of a c-section.

Cudos to those who have delivered their own child - That really is something incredible.

[SteeleJoe]

As can be seen in my posts I never claimed or implied in any way that I was a superior father because I was in the delivery room nor do I think anything as ridiculous as that.

I wasn't the one who made denigrating comments about other people's choices.

...at this stage the male is simply a passenger, we can only offer the strength of our emotional support.

Obviously. And that support may be seen by some as a very worthwhile thing. But I'll repeat myself: there are other reasons to be there, for some people, than to assist in any way. It's about being there and seeing it.

By the way, a C-section does not have teo preclude the presence of the father (depending on the hospital): he can get scrubbed and wear surgical gear.

[Boo]

mrboo was present, his choice. He was pretty redundant for 15 1/2 hrs as I didn't want to be touched & was totally focused on dealing with the pain but when it came to the final stretch he was called over by the midwives & stroked our sons head as he crowned & cut the cord once he was out. I was pretty much exhausted after 16 hrs of labour but the one image I recall vividly is the look of total awe on his face & the tears of pride in his eyes when he saw his son being born. He told me later that it was the most amazing thing he had ever seen or experienced.

Alot of thai hospitals refuse the father entry for their own convenience but I would say if you really want to be there, find one that has an father friendly policy & use them.

[Satcommlee]

I wanted to be present at the birth of my son, who was delivered by C section at The Bangkok Pattaya Hospital. It is definitely possible for a fee, I guess it covers the scrub up and greens, but I asked them when it was too late, you need to tell them well in advance.