Just Curious.............

[thequietman]

hi guys,

Just curious........... are there others on here who have to go through the mundane process of having to sign in every dam_n day for the duration of the school holidays. Any idea as to the thought process behind it (if any) and do you think the thai directors have maybe never heard of staff motivation.

When I went to sign in today it was sprung upon us that we have to come in for an hour everyday for the remainder of the month. Even though the hour may come in the late afternoon, we are still expected to travel in to sign, return home and then come back in 6 hours later to teach.

I am used to it by now but their just doesnt appear to be any rational thought about this. anyone in the same situation.

[Scott]

There are schools where not only do you sign in, but you stay there all day, even if there is nothing to do.

A lot of directors feel that they are paying you, so you have to be there. Motivation? Morale? Efficiency? Not words that spring to mind at a lot of schools.

[thequietman]

There are schools where not only do you sign in, but you stay there all day, even if there is nothing to do.

A lot of directors feel that they are paying you, so you have to be there. Motivation? Morale? Efficiency? Not words that spring to mind at a lot of schools.

yes, quite. we were going to suggest that we dont take any holidays (10 days as per contract) and we would teach for those extra hours. 4 teachers, thats 160 hours extra teaching for the school, if we didnt have to sign in over the holidays. was met with a blank stare and look of confusion.

[BlackArtemis]

I used to work at a government school where there was no signing in during holiday, meaning I got 2.5 months off paid and could go anywhere in the world during that time. I also only had 15hrs of teaching time and 35 kids. I was only making 26k/month but the work load was quite nice, tutoring made up the rest.

I have less at my new job, I have yet to find out if I have to sign in since I am in the US and we are playing the paperwork game and getting the Non-Imm B here.

[Ijustwannateach]

Time to start on your novel, perhaps.

One of the few advantages of a teaching job over jobs that pay well is the vacations. When those go, so will the few remaining talented individuals who choose teaching as a career. They are not just a benefit, they are a mental health saver.

[Scott]

But for many, schools are little more than a 'learning factory'.

[stewyk71]

For the third year running not only do i sign in everyday of March I'm the only one here! The Thai teachers (and Director) will disappear again and return on the last day to collect their salary. My solution is to teach private students in the school in the morning and do my next years lesson plans and take their money.

[BlackArtemis]

I am expected to help teach the summer camp at my new job, but I don't know if that is happening because they have yet to receive my documents to send to the MOE so I can apply for my visa. They wanted me there by the 22nd... I don't mind teaching a summer camp setting, it will be more fun than just sitting there.

[talk2sam]

I guess they like seeing your face around for the whole of march, You will have april to urself..

[Fookhaht]

Cheer up, we have to sign in AND out every day. And, no classes for all of March, April and May. Solitaire gets really boring on the office computer.

The answer to "why?" It's form without substance, a common feature of Thai culture.

[markg]

There are loads of reasons 'why', though none of them are justifiable. Here are a few that are of my own opinion.

1. The MOE loves paperwork and the Thai teachers will be doing a lot of paperwork and box ticking that perhaps the EFL department just don't see. So if they're in, so should the highly paid farang staff. !

2. Quite a few Thai teachers are paid so little that they actually have little options for leisure time during holidays, therefore, they may as well stay at school and save money, ergo, so should you.

3. Many Thai teachers live near to their friends and family, so looooong holidays are not really necessary. A trip to a neighbouring country for merely 'travel' is unthinkable.

4. The amount of work to be done will take up all the time allotted to it. That is why, for example, it often takes 3 months to process a Non-B visa into a work permit. Because 3 months are given. They could probably do it in a week.

5. Due to reasons 2 and 3 above, time off is not seen as being a motivator for many Thai staff.

6. If all else fails, then you 'don't understand Thai culture'. !!

[taiwanatoa]

Do you really have no other use for the computer than to play Solitaire?!

[Thaddeus]

Do you really have no other use for the computer than to play Solitaire?!

Agreed..... Angry Birds is way better.

[ivan96822]

Though I am not surprised by any of this, that seems extremely ridiculous to make someone sit around doing absolutely nothing...

[SlyAnimal]

About as absurd as requiring farang teachers to attend staff meetings which are conducted entirely in Thai

/sigh apparently have one of these on Tuesday (luckily though I recently brought a kindle so at least won't run out of books to read lol)

[LucidLucifer]

At the end of the last year I taught in Trang I left my teaching job and moved to Bangkok, the school knew this. They still asked me to come in and sign in for three days at the end of the summer holiday. I'd left Trang 6 weeks before. I asked them, trying hard to hide the sarcasm in my voice, if they really expected me to travel the 850+ km just to write my name. The answer was yes.

Needless to say, the day before I rang in sick, said I couldn't make it, far too poorly to make train journey.

[thequietman]

At the end of the last year I taught in Trang I left my teaching job and moved to Bangkok, the school knew this. They still asked me to come in and sign in for three days at the end of the summer holiday. I'd left Trang 6 weeks before. I asked them, trying hard to hide the sarcasm in my voice, if they really expected me to travel the 850+ km just to write my name. The answer was yes.

Needless to say, the day before I rang in sick, said I couldn't make it, far too poorly to make train journey.

yep, when you are of use to them they can be as sweet as pie. when they know you are leaving of your own accord, this is a huge loss of 'face' for them. the last school I gave my 3 months notice to, stopped calling me by my first name as they had done for years and referred to me as Mr (surname) for the remainder of my contract. sad really. they never though beyond themselves that I might like to return some day in the future. Not going to happen now after the way they treated me.

[onlycw]

They made me sign in every day - and most days, the English Dept. would be closed (until the first Thai teacher might show up around 10 am).

Those foreigners they like can go on holiday and sign their name later

Does this apply to all foreign teachers? Aft5er weeks, one Thai teachers asked me why I'm not on holiday like the others? That really pissed me off. The double standards, the lack of communication..

[LucidLucifer]

At the end of the last year I taught in Trang I left my teaching job and moved to Bangkok, the school knew this. They still asked me to come in and sign in for three days at the end of the summer holiday. I'd left Trang 6 weeks before. I asked them, trying hard to hide the sarcasm in my voice, if they really expected me to travel the 850+ km just to write my name. The answer was yes.

Needless to say, the day before I rang in sick, said I couldn't make it, far too poorly to make train journey.

yep, when you are of use to them they can be as sweet as pie. when they know you are leaving of your own accord, this is a huge loss of 'face' for them. the last school I gave my 3 months notice to, stopped calling me by my first name as they had done for years and referred to me as Mr (surname) for the remainder of my contract. sad really. they never though beyond themselves that I might like to return some day in the future. Not going to happen now after the way they treated me.

I'm lucky with my school, I always did, and still do, have a good relationship with them. I am still in contact with a few teachers there, and last year I went down to Trang to visit the school. I left seven years ago. I was made very welcome by the majority (the ones I got on well with, and most importantly the ones that matter) and as for the others, well quite frankly I couldn't give a toss.

[ivan96822]

At the end of the last year I taught in Trang I left my teaching job and moved to Bangkok, the school knew this. They still asked me to come in and sign in for three days at the end of the summer holiday. I'd left Trang 6 weeks before. I asked them, trying hard to hide the sarcasm in my voice, if they really expected me to travel the 850+ km just to write my name. The answer was yes.

Needless to say, the day before I rang in sick, said I couldn't make it, far too poorly to make train journey.

Audacity with a capital A.

[LucidLucifer]

At the end of the last year I taught in Trang I left my teaching job and moved to Bangkok, the school knew this. They still asked me to come in and sign in for three days at the end of the summer holiday. I'd left Trang 6 weeks before. I asked them, trying hard to hide the sarcasm in my voice, if they really expected me to travel the 850+ km just to write my name. The answer was yes.

Needless to say, the day before I rang in sick, said I couldn't make it, far too poorly to make train journey.

Audacity with a capital A.

From me or them?

[Fookhaht]

Do you really have no other use for the computer than to play Solitaire?!

Do you know what an emoticon is?

[onlycw]

At the end of a 3 week period, where I signed in every morning, then found the English Department deserted, a Thai colleague shared that others sign in upon their return from holidays!

Is there such a double standard at your school?

Can you buy a few weeks' holidays? I would explore that!

Just like those dreadful meetings where folks joke around and waste time... Who dares to stand up and say you have nothing to discuss - let's go home?

[Fookhaht]

At the end of a 3 week period, where I signed in every morning, then found the English Department deserted, a Thai colleague shared that others sign in upon their return from holidays!

Is there such a double standard at your school?

Can you buy a few weeks' holidays? I would explore that!

Just like those dreadful meetings where folks joke around and waste time... Who dares to stand up and say you have nothing to discuss - let's go home?

I go sign in everyday, and likewise find the department mostly deserted. Found out that the Thai teachers get each other to sign in for them when they don't come in for the day. It's overlooked by the dept. head, but a foreign teacher dare not risk his wrath by trying it. Yes, there is a double standard.

[chowny77]

When I first started working here in Thailand the government school was cool because we had a Thai teacher who basically was the head of the MEP english progam. We also had a farang head of the english MEP program too. Between them they would batter out a deal with the Thai admin. She explained what they wanted from us and we explained that it was sometimes unfair what they were asking of us. So through diplomacy they got alittle of what they wanted, i.e. english camp attendance and we got holidays without having to sign-in. A few years later down the line the director decided in all of his wisdom (joking) to find a reason to unfairly dismiss with few days warning our farang head of the MEP program. As you can imagine, this was not looking good. Next, with in a few weeks our Thai head of the MEP put in for early retirement...........bugger!!! Well lets just say a couple of us were not given a new contract because we were seen as being from the old mold and had a brain to ask "why, should I do that?"

From what I know now the school is making terrible requests of the native/non-native speakers, holidays were cut, saleries are docked for silly reasons, full-on gate duties, morning speeches and even being sent out to do an hour or two at a school unrelated to the one their contract is signed to.

The other school that I worked at was just as anal about holiday time signing in. You had to be there every weekday, unless a public holiday before 8:30am-9:00am or they would draw a read line under the last entry.

All I can add if any thai teachers/directors are reading these posts, PAY MORE = GET MORE!!

And possible they could try working outside of Thailand for a year and see how much they would complain about how they are treated.

[Fookhaht]

Well lets just say a couple of us were not given a new contract because we were seen as being from the old mold and had a brain to ask "why, should I do that?"

Interesting parallel at our school. The dept. head put out the word that all long-term teachers would probably not receive a contract next term, because longer-term teachers "get too comfortable." Your comment is probably a good translation of that phrase.

The unofficial policy hereafter is to only hire foreign native-speakers for a year or two--then, out the door. What they basically have left are 1-year teachers training new teachers every year.

Chaotic and insane. Even other Thai educators I talk with are incredulous at this myopic view of educational management.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Fookhaht

[thequietman]

Well lets just say a couple of us were not given a new contract because we were seen as being from the old mold and had a brain to ask "why, should I do that?"

Interesting parallel at our school. The dept. head put out the word that all long-term teachers would probably not receive a contract next term, because longer-term teachers "get too comfortable." Your comment is probably a good translation of that phrase.

The unofficial policy hereafter is to only hire foreign native-speakers for a year or two--then, out the door. What they basically have left are 1-year teachers training new teachers every year.

Chaotic and insane. Even other Thai educators I talk with are incredulous at this myopic view of educational management.

When will all of you realise, the most important thing that you need to remember is ;

schools here are a Business . They are not institutes of learning but merely a way to make money for the involved people.

If you want to keep your job, then you must follow these simple points;

wai everyone.

be white.

be handsome.

wear the colour coded clothes for each day.

turn up at 6 a.m., leave at 5 p.m.

do not rock the boat by expecting logic.

do not ask for notice of events happening in school. you are farang. 5 minutes before it happens should suffice.

go to all staff functions or you will be deemed to have a bad attitude.

do not correct the 'English' speaking thai teachers. they are right and you, an English speaking national, are wrong.

always use multiple choice tests. Never ask students to think of the answer themselves.

never raise your voice to the little darlings even if they are going nuts. if you cant control them by asking nicely and in quiet tones, then you are not a capable teacher.

never submit your own lesson plans. Copy them from the internet because they look better. dont forget to put some pretty pictures.

get a To Be Number 1 poster and stick it on the side of your car or pickup.

Always use a microphone when talking to your students in class. it is unheard of to ask them to be quiet and listen. who the hell do you think you are ?

and finally, as one director of a school told me once......... "don't teach them too much. Just make them laugh." (true)

Dance monkey dance. welcome to the thai education system. enjoy.

[Fookhaht]

If you want to keep your job, then you must follow these simple points;

wai everyone.

be white.

be handsome.

wear the colour coded clothes for each day.

turn up at 6 a.m., leave at 5 p.m.

do not rock the boat by expecting logic.

do not ask for notice of events happening in school. you are farang. 5 minutes before it happens should suffice.

go to all staff functions or you will be deemed to have a bad attitude.

do not correct the 'English' speaking thai teachers. they are right and you, an English speaking national, are wrong.

always use multiple choice tests. Never ask students to think of the answer themselves.

never raise your voice to the little darlings even if they are going nuts. if you cant control them by asking nicely and in quiet tones, then you are not a capable teacher.

never submit your own lesson plans. Copy them from the internet because they look better. dont forget to put some pretty pictures.

get a To Be Number 1 poster and stick it on the side of your car or pickup.

Always use a microphone when talking to your students in class. it is unheard of to ask them to be quiet and listen. who the hell do you think you are ?

and finally, as one director of a school told me once......... "don't teach them too much. Just make them laugh." (true)

Dance monkey dance. welcome to the thai education system. enjoy.

OMG, this is a classic list. It should be posted on www.Ajarn.com, pinned on this teaching forum, nailed to the wall at the Labor office, and stamped next to every Immigration-B visa in a teacher's passport.. . . .

[NormanW]

Cheer up, we have to sign in AND out every day. And, no classes for all of March, April and May. Solitaire gets really boring on the office computer.

The answer to "why?" It's form without substance, a common feature of Thai culture.

...and possibly, motivation to move on and into a more dignified environment???

[Fookhaht]

Cheer up, we have to sign in AND out every day. And, no classes for all of March, April and May. Solitaire gets really boring on the office computer.

The answer to "why?" It's form without substance, a common feature of Thai culture.

...and possibly, motivation to move on and into a more dignified environment???

Exactly! Done!