UK pensions

[bert bloggs]

11 hours ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

 

Only if they have paid the requisite number of National Insurance contributions.

no they get social security instead and if your lucky a million pound apartment in Kensington , if not just an ordinary free flat in London or wherever .

[teddog]

11 hours ago, Flustered said:

Much as I disagree with 99.99% of what  Rajab Al Zarahni posts, I would not stoop to a racist remark like this.

 

Although his name is of Saudi origin, there is no reason why he could not be a 100% British citizen and fully entitled to post his views on this subject.

No they would not,not from living outside GB if no NI payments made

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

2 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

no they get social security instead and if your lucky a million pound apartment in Kensington , if not just an ordinary free flat in London or wherever .

Thats the problem with a system that pays pensions to those who have made NI contributions and pays benefits to those who have not.

[Oxx]

43 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Thats the problem with a system that pays pensions to those who have made NI contributions and pays benefits to those who have not.

 

So would you prefer an alternative system where those who haven't made NI contributions are thrown out onto the streets and left to starve?

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Oxx:  The  benefits system is too elaborate and too generous.  There are many countries who don't have such a generous benefits system yet their populations don't starve. People of working age, of sound mind and physically fit should not be the recipients of long term benefits. It isn't the Government who pays for these benefits it is we the taxpayers who have provided for our own future, through careful planning and hard work, and who are then made to support the feckless and the lazy through paying an onerous level of taxation.Our overly generous benefits system is one of the strongest pull factors  in encouraging unwanted and often illegal migration to the UK. Look at the size of the typical immigrant family in the UK  and ponder the demands they put on our schools and hospitals, all paid for out of taxation. The first priority of any country is to first look after its own people. 

[Flustered]

10 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Oxx:  The  benefits system is too elaborate and too generous.  There are many countries who don't have such a generous benefits system yet their populations don't starve. People of working age, of sound mind and physically fit should not be the recipients of long term benefits. It isn't the Government who pays for these benefits it is we the taxpayers who have provided for our own future, through careful planning and hard work, and who are then made to support the feckless and the lazy through paying an onerous level of taxation.Our overly generous benefits system is one of the strongest pull factors  in encouraging unwanted and often illegal migration to the UK. Look at the size of the typical immigrant family in the UK  and ponder the demands they put on our schools and hospitals, all paid for out of taxation. The first priority of any country is to first look after its own people. 

Are you the same RAZ?

 

I cannot believe I totally agree with sentiments of yours. Must be the 0.01%.

 

 

[Oxx]

6 minutes ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Oxx:  The  benefits system is too elaborate and too generous.  There are many countries who don't have such a generous benefits system yet their populations don't starve. People of working age, of sound mind and physically fit should not be the recipients of long term benefits. It isn't the Government who pays for these benefits it is we the taxpayers who have provided for our own future, through careful planning and hard work, and who are then made to support the feckless and the lazy through paying an onerous level of taxation.Our overly generous benefits system is one of the strongest pull factors  in encouraging unwanted and often illegal migration to the UK. Look at the size of the typical immigrant family in the UK  and ponder the demands they put on our schools and hospitals, all paid for out of taxation. The first priority of any country is to first look after its own people. 

 

Whilst I don't disagree with you about the generosity of the benefits system or the undesirability of virtually unfettered immigration, there are a number of issues with your position:

 

(1) The labour market isn't open to all.  One can be of sound mind and physically fit, yet unable to find employment.  There is only a limited number of jobs available for the poorly educated and for those who have a religious imperative to disrupt work and pray five times a day.  Some people can similarly be hindered, and can't even stack shelves or work at a checkout at Tesco because their (ludicrous religious beliefs) mean they touch bottles of alcohol or pieces of pork.

 

(2) Whilst the benefits system may act as a "pull factor", the solution isn't to fiddle with the benefits system, but to eliminate illegal migration (and severely curtail all immigration).  Indeed, the authorities should be working dramatically to reverse the flow of migrants - something they appear most reluctant to do.

 

(3) Countries with less than generous benefits systems include Thailand.  People with good family networks here typically don't starve, though they might die from lack of access to appropriate medical treatment.  However, economic migrants to the UK typically don't have a family network to support them.

 

One of the barbaric things about the American system is that people die for lack of social welfare and of medical treatment.  It's something that is anathema to the vast majority of those brought up in western Europe.  I wouldn't want the UK to go down the American route.  The British at heart are not heartless barbarians.

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

 

So would you prefer an alternative system where those who haven't made NI contributions are thrown out onto the streets and left to starve?

Yes why not, rather like inThailand, we are a soft touch for the world

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Oxx: I agree with much of what you say, however: 

 

1) If you choose to avoid pork, pray five times a day, dye your hair purple or wear a ring through your nose  and if that is the reason you can't find a job then that's your problem not mine. 

If you are poorly educated then the assistance provided by the state should be to help you correct that deficit.

Employment is not a right. Unemployed people have a job and that job is getting a job. They are really no different to the self employed. What they don't have is a salary.

 

2) There is no problem with immigration, the problem is our dismal failure to exercise any form of control.

 Why do we still hear of colleges for foreign students where you can buy a degree, a masters degree, a passport and a driving licence ?

They will even visit your home to provide a VIP bespoke service if you have the money.

The first rule of immigration should be that it is of benefit to the country and of no detriment to its indigenous population.

On returning to the UK, why have I  been able to walk through  customs and immigration without even  seeing a single official on duty ?

Why do I come across such a high number of people from ethnic minority areas of the UK who are not employed and who can not speak more than a few words of English ?  How did they get here and what tests did they pass for entry ? 

Why does the Border Agency appear to be full of officials with Asian and African names ?

 Why is anyone who  highlights these uncomfortable truths called a racist ?

 

3) I am immensely proud of the UK benefits system and pleased that my taxes go to pay for it. Where I am angry is when I see it being used to prop up those who have chosen fraud and laziness as a lifestyle and who defend themselves with accusations of racism. 

[Flustered]

RAZ, if you do not stop posting sensible and to the point comments you will be reported.

 

One day, I may get you to agree about overseas pensions but I doubt it and it is your right (as is mine) to have a point of view.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

2 hours ago, Flustered said:

RAZ, if you do not stop posting sensible and to the point comments you will be reported.

 

One day, I may get you to agree about overseas pensions but I doubt it and it is your right (as is mine) to have a point of view.

On behalf of His Imperial Majesty I am  delighted to receive your most gracious comment and for the restoration of normal diplomatic relations between the Sultanate and the Kingdom of Yorkshire.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Oxx: I agree with much of what you say, however: 

 

1) If you choose to avoid pork, pray five times a day, dye your hair purple or wear a ring through your nose  and if that is the reason you can't find a job then that's your problem not mine. 

If you are poorly educated then the assistance provided by the state should be to help you correct that deficit.

Employment is not a right. Unemployed people have a job and that job is getting a job. They are really no different to the self employed. What they don't have is a salary.

 

2) There is no problem with immigration, the problem is our dismal failure to exercise any form of control.

 Why do we still hear of colleges for foreign students where you can buy a degree, a masters degree, a passport and a driving licence ?

They will even visit your home to provide a VIP bespoke service if you have the money.

The first rule of immigration should be that it is of benefit to the country and of no detriment to its indigenous population.

On returning to the UK, why have I  been able to walk through  customs and immigration without even  seeing a single official on duty ?

Why do I come across such a high number of people from ethnic minority areas of the UK who are not employed and who can not speak more than a few words of English ?  How did they get here and what tests did they pass for entry ? 

Why does the Border Agency appear to be full of officials with Asian and African names ?

 Why is anyone who  highlights these uncomfortable truths called a racist ?

 

3) I am immensely proud of the UK benefits system and pleased that my taxes go to pay for it. Where I am angry is when I see it being used to prop up those who have chosen fraud and laziness as a lifestyle and who defend themselves with accusations of racism. 

Shortlisted for post (and poster) of the year ☺

[nong38]

7 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Whilst I don't disagree with you about the generosity of the benefits system or the undesirability of virtually unfettered immigration, there are a number of issues with your position:

 

(1) The labour market isn't open to all.  One can be of sound mind and physically fit, yet unable to find employment.  There is only a limited number of jobs available for the poorly educated and for those who have a religious imperative to disrupt work and pray five times a day.  Some people can similarly be hindered, and can't even stack shelves or work at a checkout at Tesco because their (ludicrous religious beliefs) mean they touch bottles of alcohol or pieces of pork.

 

(2) Whilst the benefits system may act as a "pull factor", the solution isn't to fiddle with the benefits system, but to eliminate illegal migration (and severely curtail all immigration).  Indeed, the authorities should be working dramatically to reverse the flow of migrants - something they appear most reluctant to do.

 

(3) Countries with less than generous benefits systems include Thailand.  People with good family networks here typically don't starve, though they might die from lack of access to appropriate medical treatment.  However, economic migrants to the UK typically don't have a family network to support them.

 

One of the barbaric things about the American system is that people die for lack of social welfare and of medical treatment.  It's something that is anathema to the vast majority of those brought up in western Europe.  I wouldn't want the UK to go down the American route.  The British at heart are not heartless barbarians.

The British have always thought that fair play is the way to play the game, that is what I always believed to the case, unfortunately that has not turned out to be the case always and our frozen pensions is just one issue, you pay the same put are then discriminated against because of your choice of destination.

In my own case I was never at the top of the housing list in my borough whilst British Passport holders from the Commonwealth appeared on the Councils doorstep!

If the UK put its own people first we would not be in the position we are today, enter the PC brigade and the liberal do gooders who have no idea what the ordinary Brit has to put up with and live with, we always have to fit in with immigrants not the other way round, if it were the other round, you have to fit and we will see what we can do help you the world would be a different place, in the UK anyway.

One thing that really annoys me whilst I am at is these folk that roll up, get through Immigration then burn their passports so they cannot be sent back to where they came from, I would say its time to keep records and send them back and take all your family with you who want a free ride through life at the UK taxpayers expence and yes that does mean me, I still have to pay taxes to support these wasters!

You can easily see where we could the save 550m pounds required to uprate the ex pat pensioners  frozen pensions cant you?

[dexjnr555]

On 6/21/2017 at 11:26 PM, Flustered said:

Much as I disagree with 99.99% of what  Rajab Al Zarahni posts, I would not stoop to a racist remark like this.

 

Although his name is of Saudi origin, there is no reason why he could not be a 100% British citizen and fully entitled to post his views on this subject.

It was a honest question, no racist intentions.

[evadgib]

1bn quid for DUP yet 'we're skint' re global parity & how about this gem from the PM yesterday....?

 

“Finally, the UK will continue to export and uprate the UK State Pension and provide associated healthcare cover within the EU. We will continue to protect the export of other benefits and associated healthcare cover, where the individual is in receipt of those benefits on the specified cut-off date. And subject to negotiations we want to continue participating in the European Health Insurance Card scheme, so that UK card holders could continue to benefit from free or reduced cost healthcare while on a temporary stay in the EU and vice versa for EU card holders visiting the UK”.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-commons-statement-on-european-council-26-june-2017

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-publishes-proposals-on-rights-of-eu-citizens

 

I guess the best we can do is hope the DUP are sympathetic and use their pressure accordingly.

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

1bn quid for DUP yet 'we're skint' re global parity & how about this gem from the PM yesterday....?

 

“Finally, the UK will continue to export and uprate the UK State Pension and provide associated healthcare cover within the EU. We will continue to protect the export of other benefits and associated healthcare cover, where the individual is in receipt of those benefits on the specified cut-off date. And subject to negotiations we want to continue participating in the European Health Insurance Card scheme, so that UK card holders could continue to benefit from free or reduced cost healthcare while on a temporary stay in the EU and vice versa for EU card holders visiting the UK”.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-commons-statement-on-european-council-26-june-2017

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-publishes-proposals-on-rights-of-eu-citizens

 

I guess the best we can do is hope the DUP are sympathetic and use their pressure accordingly.

Here in Thailand we have two hopes and one of them is Bob. even if Corbyn got in it would be the same ,promises ,promises .

[evadgib]

This is our best chance in years at putting this nonsence to rest but it needs people to step up instead of leaving it to everyone else.

 

Just my 2p as I don't like getting wet :)

 

[bert bloggs]

23 minutes ago, evadgib said:

This is our best chance in years at putting this nonsence to rest but it needs people to step up instead of leaving it to everyone else.

 

Just my 2p of course :)

I agree ,and i have nothing but admiration for those who keep at it , but lifes to short , i have far more things to do every day

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

1bn quid for DUP yet 'we're skint' re global parity & how about this gem from the PM yesterday....?

 

“Finally, the UK will continue to export and uprate the UK State Pension and provide associated healthcare cover within the EU. We will continue to protect the export of other benefits and associated healthcare cover, where the individual is in receipt of those benefits on the specified cut-off date. And subject to negotiations we want to continue participating in the European Health Insurance Card scheme, so that UK card holders could continue to benefit from free or reduced cost healthcare while on a temporary stay in the EU and vice versa for EU card holders visiting the UK”.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-commons-statement-on-european-council-26-june-2017

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-publishes-proposals-on-rights-of-eu-citizens

 

I guess the best we can do is hope the DUP are sympathetic and use their pressure accordingly.

Apologies for going off topic,

 

Does the statement regarding uprating of pensions , mean that the government is intent on reaching a deal. Otherwise under UK present laws I cannot see how it is lawfull, without a reciprocal social security agreement the statuary instrument/regulation preventing pension uprating will need to be either abolished or amended

[Oooooh]

Re. Using the Bangkok  Bank London Branch for transferring UK pension to account in Thailand.

 

There are 2 options  from the Bangkok Bank website  1) Send the  money in THB using the London Branch  exchange rate with a 15GBP fee in London but no fee at the Thai  branch or, 2) Send the money in GBP  using the Thailand 'TT' buying rate but this has a 20GBP fee in London plus a 0.25% fee of the amount transferred (min 200THB) at this end.

 

Can anyone tell me which is better ?

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, Oooooh said:

Re. Using the Bangkok  Bank London Branch for transferring UK pension to account in Thailand.

 

There are 2 options  from the Bangkok Bank website  1) Send the  money in THB using the London Branch  exchange rate with a 15GBP fee in London but no fee at the Thai  branch or, 2) Send the money in GBP  using the Thailand 'TT' buying rate but this has a 20GBP fee in London plus a 0.25% fee of the amount transferred (min 200THB) at this end.

 

Can anyone tell me which is better ?

From my experience you will get a better rate of exchange if you send GBP. Thai rate is usually a lot better than GB banks.

[Oooooh]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

From my experience you will get a better rate of exchange if you send GBP. Thai rate is usually a lot better than GB banks.

Yes, but is that better rate offset by the difference in the fees. Can't seem to find the Bangkok Bank London Branch exchange rates...anyone know where thay are listed?

[Eff1n2ret]

3 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

Apologies for going off topic,

 

Does the statement regarding uprating of pensions , mean that the government is intent on reaching a deal. Otherwise under UK present laws I cannot see how it is lawfull, without a reciprocal social security agreement the statuary instrument/regulation preventing pension uprating will need to be either abolished or amended

I guess the government will find it quite easy to argue that whatever arrangements they make with the EU do not affect arrangements they have anywhere else in the world. I don't think the matter of uprating pensions for UK residents in the EU will feature much in Brexit negotiations. They don't need the permission of the EU to pay pensions to UK citizens there, any more than they really do to pay us here in Thailand. That's what is so stupid about those "reciprocal agreements".

Of course, there is the matter of pension rights acquired by EU citizens who retire from the UK to their own country - in that case, the EU should be very keen to make an agreement; whether they call it a "reciprocal agreement" or something else is unlikely to assist our cause very much, I fear.

[evadgib]

11 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I guess the government will find it quite easy to argue that whatever arrangements they make with the EU do not affect arrangements they have anywhere else in the world. I don't think the matter of uprating pensions for UK residents in the EU will feature much in Brexit negotiations. They don't need the permission of the EU to pay pensions to UK citizens there, any more than they really do to pay us here in Thailand. That's what is so stupid about those "reciprocal agreements".

Of course, there is the matter of pension rights acquired by EU citizens who retire from the UK to their own country - in that case, the EU should be very keen to make an agreement; whether they call it a "reciprocal agreement" or something else is unlikely to assist our cause very much, I fear.

Messrs Bottomly, Gale, Blackford & the remainder of the APPG won't let them get away with that, nor will the Consortium.

[i claudius]

Messrs Bottomly, Gale, Blackford & the remainder of the APPG won't let them get away with that, nor will the Consortium.

But they will get away with it the bstards always do

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I guess the government will find it quite easy to argue that whatever arrangements they make with the EU do not affect arrangements they have anywhere else in the world. I don't think the matter of uprating pensions for UK residents in the EU will feature much in Brexit negotiations. They don't need the permission of the EU to pay pensions to UK citizens there, any more than they really do to pay us here in Thailand. That's what is so stupid about those "reciprocal agreements".

Of course, there is the matter of pension rights acquired by EU citizens who retire from the UK to their own country - in that case, the EU should be very keen to make an agreement; whether they call it a "reciprocal agreement" or something else is unlikely to assist our cause very much, I fear.

That is not my thoughts.

At present pensions are uprated in the EU due to agreements with the EU which will come to an end on Brexit, depending upon negotations.

The mere fact that the government have stated it is the UK's intention to maintain this uprating suggests that either a deal will be completed or the UK will have to change the existing laws/regulations , as reaching a number of reciprocal arrangements with the individual countries is not feasable given the timescale this would require

[nong38]

Well my guess is that the agreement will be for those living within the EU and the UK, we are side game, now you might think the the EU being a load of knobs might just try and force the UK into making the same gesture to ex pats outside the EU, just to make  a point, if you get my drift.

Now well all is said and done or thought to be done there will be things not thought about, like EU citizens who chose to live in the UK for their working lives then decided they were going to spend their retirement in...............lets say Thailand or Myanmar what would happen to their pensions? Pensions being paid by the HMG, frozen or not frozen?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oxx]

On 27/06/2017 at 3:41 PM, Oooooh said:

Yes, but is that better rate offset by the difference in the fees. Can't seem to find the Bangkok Bank London Branch exchange rates...anyone know where thay are listed?

 

They don't publish their rates, but I can assure you they're dreadful (based upon bitter experience - something like 1 baht/pound less).  Only for the tiniest amount will you be better off sending in Baht.

[chezy86]

Seriously I wouldn't know what to put in a PM, at this present moment in time in the UK with the ongoing financial world crisis, the problems in Europe etc, could or would you expect an MP getting up in the house with UK citizens facing job loses and cuts and putting the question :-
" I want all UK pensioners living abroad who have had their pensions frozen in certain countries where have chose to live to have all their backdated rises not received, paid in full and annual increases given."
Can you picture the response, I don't think any consideration would be given or the fact that :-
They don't get use of the NHS ambulance services or doctors in the UK.
They don't get to use free bus & train passes.
They don't get any winter payment allowances.
They don't get the use of our police force.
Our fire service etc.
I wouldn't think there would be any support from pensioners stuck in the UK either.
The response would be " More Money What they don't have contribute 44 years now only 30 years, they don't pay Purchase TAX or V.A.T. in the UK." " Sit down you fool " " Next ".
I do feel sorry for some especially the ones who wanted to stay in Thailand but was left no choice but to go back home, the fact it would end up costing the UK more because of it, would not even be brought up.

Hi I see you liked a sarcastic comment from meat boy on a what I thought serious post I put up today that was closed regarding indexing. Glad you find this amusing just wanted to help people. Just for info I am not of state retirement age for 11 years yet and am comfortable on a company pension and could manage without it. Of course I researched it before I came just don't find it fair and wanted to do something about it. If this is the reaction from people no wonder you aren't getting anywhere. Good luck with it all I'm off back in the pool [emoji41]


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[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, chezy86 said:

Hi I see you liked a sarcastic comment from meat boy on a what I thought serious post I put up today that was closed regarding indexing. Glad you find this amusing just wanted to help people. Just for info I am not of state retirement age for 11 years yet and am comfortable on a company pension and could manage without it. Of course I researched it before I came just don't find it fair and wanted to do something about it. If this is the reaction from people no wonder you aren't getting anywhere. Good luck with it all I'm off back in the pool


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

  Can you prove that's my post because if it is l was l probably had 1 or 2 Chang beers too many.  

Also l don't have pool l use a friends local hotel one.