UK pensions

[denby45]

Found some more details on Class 2 abolition date, apparently announced in last weeks Budget:

"Class 2 National insurance contributions are to be abolished with effect from April 2018. Where expats have been making this class of payments, often as advised by HMRC on leaving the UK, they will now pay Class 3A. These are voluntary contributions but allow individuals to continue to build entitlement to the UK Basic Pension."

http://financialuae.me/2016/03/17/uk-budget-march-2016-what-expats-need-to-know/

How can that be right? Class 3A are for people who want to top up their pension but is eligible to existing pensioners or people who reach state pension age before 06April 2016 only. They can pay up to 05th. April 2017. The class 2 does not disappear until April 2018.

I suggest this is a mistake.

Den

[sandyf]

Found some more details on Class 2 abolition date, apparently announced in last weeks Budget:

"Class 2 National insurance contributions are to be abolished with effect from April 2018. Where expats have been making this class of payments, often as advised by HMRC on leaving the UK, they will now pay Class 3A. These are voluntary contributions but allow individuals to continue to build entitlement to the UK Basic Pension."

http://financialuae.me/2016/03/17/uk-budget-march-2016-what-expats-need-to-know/

How can that be right? Class 3A are for people who want to top up their pension but is eligible to existing pensioners or people who reach state pension age before 06April 2016 only. They can pay up to 05th. April 2017. The class 2 does not disappear until April 2018.

I suggest this is a mistake.

Den

You may right, this is from the same article.

"The Personal Allowance threshold will increase from £10,600 in the current tax year to £11,000 from April 2016. As announced in previous budgets the Allowance will increase to £11,000 in 2017/18."

Class 3A VNICS will be available for 18 months from October 2015;

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/300007/wms-state-pension-top-up.pdf

[evadgib]

Clear as Mud!

[Harry2]

Clear as Mud!

The Govt in its Budget summary confirms Class 2 will be stopped in 2018, but makes no mention of the idea of paying Class 3a - which as pointed out is a temporary class that is not intended to last, a mistake by the article's author I guess. UK self employed are supposed to pay Class 4 no mention of expats.

"19. Class 2 National Insurance contributions (NICs) for self-employed people will be scrapped from April 2018"

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/budget-2016-some-of-the-things-weve-announced

[theoldgit]

Following PM's from a number of contributors, I've removed a few more off topic posts, I would be really grateful if you would stick to the topic of UK pensions, and relevant issues such as taxes and the like.

Issues regarding Asylum Seekers, Economic Migrants and the like may be close to our hearts but please refrain from discussing on this thread.

Can I also ask, yet again, that members avoid quoting the same comments over and again, you will be aware that sometimes a comment is repeated time and time, it really isn't necessary.

As a matter of interest over 5,400 posts have been removed from this thread because they were off topic or out of date, without the culls we would be on page 296.

I will go through the posts again over the next day or so to try and make it more user friendly and readable.

Thanks

[evadgib]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

Yesterday at 03:43 ·

Thank you to all supporters for urging signing of EDM 1235 and also support of the 38 degrees petition. These initiatives were time sensitive as Ian Blackford was trying to secure debate before freezing for another year went through by default during parliamentary Easter recess which starts today. Although the EDM initiative failed, it garnered 92 signatures in a very short time and raised huge parliamentary awareness of need to solve issue of frozen pensions.
Once again, today, Ian Blackford spoke about the need for a future debate on frozen pensions, and referenced the situations of Abhik Bonnerjee, Rita Young and Anne Puckridge: http://parliamentlive.tv/…/ec6e2929-ba69-42bf-9070-6a402213…

Parliamentlive.tv

House of Commons

PARLIAMENTLIVE.TV

[evadgib]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

22 March at 02:50 ·

A parliamentary supporter has asked that we initiate a 38 degrees campaign to unfreeze pensions: Please sign and encourage all friends/family to do this too. If you don't live in UK, put in your last UK postcode.
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/…/stop-freezing-overseas-state…

[Eclipse]

A shame he was talking to an empty house.

Keep banging away and we might eventually get there.

[sandyf]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

22 March at 02:50 ·

A parliamentary supporter has asked that we initiate a 38 degrees campaign to unfreeze pensions: Please sign and encourage all friends/family to do this too. If you don't live in UK, put in your last UK postcode.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/…/stop-freezing-overseas-state…

I wouldn't expect to much response from those living in the UK.

One member posted on here that if your pension wasn't enough then go out and get a job.

[Kwasaki]

I was unaware of this so as to notify those who have Thai wives as l have, I've been asking the question elsewhere !!! about Thai wives being officially married to a Englishman being eligible to receive a UK gov frozen pension and grievance payments it seems now, not surprisingly by 2017 it's probable they will be entitled to nowt.

[Eclipse]

The Wife will receive nothing.

[nong38]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

22 March at 02:50 ·

A parliamentary supporter has asked that we initiate a 38 degrees campaign to unfreeze pensions: Please sign and encourage all friends/family to do this too. If you don't live in UK, put in your last UK postcode.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/…/stop-freezing-overseas-state…

I wouldn't expect to much response from those living in the UK.

One member posted on here that if your pension wasn't enough then go out and get a job.

A glib response when you have worked all your life and the HMRC have been into your earnings every week or month for your forced contributions into the welfare system, a system which at first glance seemed to be fair until you suddenly found out that moving abroad and not being a burden on the UK anymore had a sting in the tail you were unaware of. The fairness also went out of the window with all the freeloaders arriving in the UK who amazingly jump ahead of people who were born and bred there and spent a lifetime paying into the welfare system only to find that contributions really dont account for anything.

[i claudius]

Its little wonder so many pensioners keep a British address isnt it?

[loppylugs1]

Its little wonder so many pensioners keep a British address isnt it?

After years of pure waffle regarding punishment on old age pensioners who do not declare their intention of where/where not to live,it is obvious that to declare is throatcutting

To backtrack on information supplied to DWP as to pensioners whereabouts would be an untruth,however it would be cushioned somewhat by time and space,according to sources

Better to have UK address (EU)s OK too but renewal of UK driving licence would not be available. Months of February and March residency in the UK is a necessity as pension letter detailing uplift in pension is dispatched from DWP,return of that letter to DWP would not be advised

[evadgib]

Clear as Mud!

The Govt in its Budget summary confirms Class 2 will be stopped in 2018, but makes no mention of the idea of paying Class 3a - which as pointed out is a temporary class that is not intended to last, a mistake by the article's author I guess. UK self employed are supposed to pay Class 4 no mention of expats.

"19. Class 2 National Insurance contributions (NICs) for self-employed people will be scrapped from April 2018"

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/budget-2016-some-of-the-things-weve-announced

Ministers have not made it clear that most people retiring on the new state pension will not receive the £155.65 weekly rate, MPs have warned.

The Work and Pensions Committee said that "failures of communication mean that too few people understand it".

It said 55% of claimants would get less than £155.65, mainly because of contracting-out or contribution gaps.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35904417

[Tony M]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

Yesterday at 03:43 ·

Thank you to all supporters for urging signing of EDM 1235 and also support of the 38 degrees petition. These initiatives were time sensitive as Ian Blackford was trying to secure debate before freezing for another year went through by default during parliamentary Easter recess which starts today. Although the EDM initiative failed, it garnered 92 signatures in a very short time and raised huge parliamentary awareness of need to solve issue of frozen pensions.

Once again, today, Ian Blackford spoke about the need for a future debate on frozen pensions, and referenced the situations of Abhik Bonnerjee, Rita Young and Anne Puckridge: http://parliamentlive.tv/…/ec6e2929-ba69-42bf-9070-6a402213…

I wrote to my MP, and she replied:

Dear Mr xxxxx,

Thank you for writing to me.

As a principle, I do not support any EDMs. However, I am in regular contact with ministers on a range of issues, ensuring that the views of my constituents are heard. I know that this issue has had a lot of publicity recently and will be high on the government's agenda.

Kind regards,

Flick

Flick Drummond

Member of Parliament for Portsmouth South

Somewhat evasive, I think. So I asked her what "principle" was involved here. She replied :

Dear Mr xxxxx,

Unfortunately EDMs do not lead to debates in Parliament. MPs who promote EDMs would be better off seeking an actual debate on a topic, either in Westminster Hall, or in the main chamber either as an Adjournment debate or via the Backbench Business Committee. Unfortunately, there is an administrative cost with maintaining the EDM system which runs to thousands of pounds a year. Given that cost, and that there are more effective ways of getting an issue attention – or even better getting it dealt with – I don’t think the machinery of EDMs can be justified.

I am sorry if you find this a disappointing answer, but I do hope you will contact me if I can help you in any other way.

Kind regards

Flick

Flick Drummond

[sandyf]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

22 March at 02:50 ·

A parliamentary supporter has asked that we initiate a 38 degrees campaign to unfreeze pensions: Please sign and encourage all friends/family to do this too. If you don't live in UK, put in your last UK postcode.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/…/stop-freezing-overseas-state…

I wouldn't expect to much response from those living in the UK.

One member posted on here that if your pension wasn't enough then go out and get a job.

A glib response when you have worked all your life and the HMRC have been into your earnings every week or month for your forced contributions into the welfare system, a system which at first glance seemed to be fair until you suddenly found out that moving abroad and not being a burden on the UK anymore had a sting in the tail you were unaware of. The fairness also went out of the window with all the freeloaders arriving in the UK who amazingly jump ahead of people who were born and bred there and spent a lifetime paying into the welfare system only to find that contributions really dont account for anything.

I couldn't agree with you more, just a bit sad that many members on here take a different view.

It is is very unlikely the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade will support the petition.

BTW - I signed it and posted it on Facebook.

[evadgib]

They'd support it if the Sun, DM etc carried enough stories explaining how much better off their services are if we remain abroad.

Some might even join in

[NoshowJones]

This reply from re EDM 1235 was somewhat predictable from a Cabinet Minister:

Dear Eva,

Thank you for your email about Early Day Motion 1235. You should be aware that Members of the Government do not, by convention, sign any Early Day Motions, as doing so is likely to breach the Ministerial Code's rules on collective responsibility.

With regards to the EDM, as you know, the UK state pension is payable worldwide and is uprated abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so. In some countries, however, there is no agreement with the UK for securing the social security rights of people moving between the two countries. As a result, pensioners who move to these countries still receive the state pension but do not have their payments uprated as they would be for UK residents. The Department for Work and Pensions endeavours to make this clear to those thinking of moving abroad and publishes guidance on its website.

It has been and remains the policy of successive governments not to enter into new agreements with countries or territories where this would include up-rating pensions in order to contain the long-term cost of the UK social security system. I can tell you that this issue has been examined extensively by the domestic courts, culminating in a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights in 2010. In all these cases the courts have found in favour of the Government.

I appreciate this is not what you wanted to hear, but I hope this helps explains why the situation is as it is.

Best wishes

<Redacted>

--------------------------------------------

Rt Hon <Redacted> MP

Member of Parliament for ....................

"there is no agreement with the UK for securing the social security rights of people moving between the two countries". That is just typical of the thieving UK government making excuses. What is wrong with a UK state pensioner living in one of these countries, having their pensions paid into their UK bank account?

What does that have to do with any agreement with Thailand, where an OAP does not get his annual increases, and yet they would if they lived in the Philipines?

OAP A lives permanently in the UK, and gets his pension paid into his UK bank account.

OAP B lives permanently in Thailand and gets his pension paid into his UK bank account.

What's the difference? Am I missing something here? Where does Thailand come into this where any agreement is concerned?

[Kwasaki]

Been over this way back,,,,,. If they know you are in Thailand even if the pension is paid into UK bank it will frozen.

There is no agreement with Thailand like there is with the Philippines that's what's needed IMO.

If you don't em where you live and they find out big headache.

[loppylugs1]

Been over this way back,,,,,. If they know you are in Thailand even if the pension is paid into UK bank it will frozen.

There is no agreement with Thailand like there is with the Philippines that's what's needed IMO.

If you don't em where you live and they find out big headache.

Yes being going on for years,and status quo still the same . Hardly going to write to address in UK asking if out of UK,look stupid You may just may be asked if it falls into their lap,but a non-answer is as good as they will get,and as stated no stoppage ,no pay back,no penalties only a frozen pension at the date you choose to tell them,( last week) that's the way it is

To me some headache..not

[sandyf]

"there is no agreement with the UK for securing the social security rights of people moving between the two countries". That is just typical of the thieving UK government making excuses. What is wrong with a UK state pensioner living in one of these countries, having their pensions paid into their UK bank account?

What does that have to do with any agreement with Thailand, where an OAP does not get his annual increases, and yet they would if they lived in the Philipines?

OAP A lives permanently in the UK, and gets his pension paid into his UK bank account.

OAP B lives permanently in Thailand and gets his pension paid into his UK bank account.

What's the difference? Am I missing something here? Where does Thailand come into this where any agreement is concerned?

Yes you are missing the fact that the UK government has the upper hand. They are secure in the knowledge that the expat community would have little effect on any election.

You must also remember many expats are financially secure and have little interest in the state pension.

[Liquorice]

1981 (previously pruned) posts suggests otherwise.

Just where are all these financially secure retired expats, most I know rely on their State Pension as their main source of income.

[Ricardo]

While I retired some time ago, because I/we could already afford to, and won't yet be receiving my government-pension for a few more years , I nevertheless look forward with some relish to receiving what I paid for (and had no choice about).

It's like a tax-refund, it just 'feels', better than the same sum from another source !

A feeling which I suspect many others also share ?

[Expattaff1308]

New Rules take effect in April and yeah they cost us ....

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/28/new-pension-rules-will-see-6-million-workers-lose-up-to-37-a-month

[loppylugs1]

While I retired some time ago, because I/we could already afford to, and won't yet be receiving my government-pension for a few more years , I nevertheless look forward with some relish to receiving what I paid for (and had no choice about).

It's like a tax-refund, it just 'feels', better than the same sum from another source !

A feeling which I suspect many others also share ?

This maybe the perfect opportunity to write to the DWP with the proposal that being resident in Thailand and freezing of pension would it not be a good opportunity to freeze my NI payments also

For the record the DWP are duty bound to make OAP otherwise they themselves would be breaking the law.

Old age pensioners in seven days will receive more of an increase in their pension since the demise of their favourite pianist Russ Conway

Talking of my old mate Russ a prompt every year or so to DWP DVLC or any govt dept will usually stop a "Proof of Life " cert being dispatched got to put NI number on request though

[NoshowJones]

1981 (previously pruned) posts suggests otherwise.

Just where are all these financially secure retired expats, most I know rely on their State Pension as their main source of income.

Come to think of it Faz, any people I know have also got private pensions, I wrongly assumed that they only had the state pension.

[Liquorice]

1981 (previously pruned) posts suggests otherwise.

Just where are all these financially secure retired expats, most I know rely on their State Pension as their main source of income.

Come to think of it Faz, any people I know have also got private pensions, I wrongly assumed that they only had the state pension.

Most yes, but not all.

Unless you were fortunate enough to be in a final salary Pension scheme, then most additional Pensions will be less than your State Pension, which makes the SP their main source of income.

most I know rely on their State Pension as their main source of income

I think some misread that as only source of income

[sumrit]

Apparently everybody can now go to this Government website to get a State Pension forecast on line, regardless of their age.

Previously the information was only available to people over 50 and had to be applied for by post/phone.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/checkmystatepension

[Eclipse]

Apparently everybody can now go to this Government website to get a State Pension forecast on line, regardless of their age.

Previously the information was only available to people over 50 and had to be applied for by post/phone.

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/checkmystatepension

That is fine if it works.

Made two attempts without receiving the activation code via phone.