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2012 Formula One Season

rixalex

By rixalex
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rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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.....but Hulk didn't do anything reckless, he just lost the back end a little in the corner...

Debateable..

and with how slippery things were, that wasn't a difficult thing to have done.

Exactly ! Some may argue that charging down the inside into that corner (that he knew was going to be wet and slippy) was indeed reckless.

The sad thing is that if he hadn't done that the chances are he would have finished on the podium which would have been a great result for Force India, he may have even got the pass later in the race, there was still a long race ahead. I was really hoping he was going to win, would have been a great end to the season.

totster smile.png

How do you differentiate between a driver making a mistake and a driver being reckless? Seems to me that by your definition all mistakes could be defined as reckless.

Had Hulk braked too late and gone straight on, missing the corner altogether, and taking out Hamilton in the process, that would have been reckless driving. All that in fact happened was he took the inside line, got the car slowed down ok, but the back stepped out by about a yard. There were fractions in it and had Hamilton been another half yard on the outside, there would have been no contact.

On the one hand the FIA and the spectators want there to be more excitement and more over-taking in the sport, but then when someone does attempt a move that very nearly comes off but doesn't, the driver gets penalised. Basically what we are saying then to the drivers is don't try anything at all daring or audacious, and don't attempt any over-taking unless you are guaranteed 100% for it to be clean, because we'll just give you a drive through if it doesn't come off.

Racing has always had racing accidents and incidents. It's the nature of the fine margins that are involved. The sport has become totally over-policed to the point whereby if drivers drove in the way that regulators are demanding them to, and in a way that guarantees they don't fall foul of penalties, it would become a lot more processional and boring.

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rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuMZzI8pOz4

Just saw this, it is pretty conclusive, calling it now seems to be a little late in the day, whatever happens the FIA loses credibility.

Alonso sounds strangely British in the commentary from that video. biggrin.png

If Vettel has committed an infraction, it is sad that it wasn't picked up on during the race. The FIA have all the technology they do at their fingertips, and all the budget they need to make decisions in live time. If they miss something, they have screwed up. But going back now to change the results, will just make a mockery of the sport. When races finish, barring something pretty extraordinary like the Singapore business of someone deliberately crashing, or something ridiculous like that, we can't be going back and reviewing fairly minor racing incidents like this. It's just daft. It's over. If he got away with it, he got away with it. Move on.

Edited by rixalex
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ignis Ruby Member

ignis

Posted
Posted

Happened on Lap 4 !!

Race was 71 Laps, so guess the FIA / Stewards / Marshalls now have missed the boat, or will they if anything happens fine themselves ?

rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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Happened on Lap 4 !!

Race was 71 Laps, so guess the FIA / Stewards / Marshalls now have missed the boat, or will they if anything happens fine themselves ?

Sack Bernie? biggrin.png

JetsetBkk Star Member

JetsetBkk

Posted
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I liked this quote the best from Alonso:

with a car that is a little bit slower than the others we can win the championship,

with a car that is the same as the others probably we can win the championship a few races before the end,

and with a car that is a lot slower than the others we fight until the last race.

Not sure Domenicali appreciated that!

Did Alonso really say all that?

Yes, on the BBC "F1 Forum" programme.

rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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I liked this quote the best from Alonso:

with a car that is a little bit slower than the others we can win the championship,

with a car that is the same as the others probably we can win the championship a few races before the end,

and with a car that is a lot slower than the others we fight until the last race.

Not sure Domenicali appreciated that!

Did Alonso really say all that?

Yes, on the BBC "F1 Forum" programme.

Amazing.

As for what Domenicali thought about it, not sure it matters. Ferrari treat Alonso like he walks on water. If Domenicali and Alonso ever get into a disagreement, i can't say i'm convinced that it would be Domenicali coming out on top.

rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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http://formula-one.s...rsy-rumbles-on/

and yet more!

Speed tv is showing a marshall with a green flag in the marshalls box (top left, look closely) which would override the mechanical yellow

That was the issue in dispute that the BBC article mentions. Apparently the green flag being waved was visible in the video on the lap prior or something, but not on the following lap. Anyway, all this is very boring for me. The race is over for goodness sake. What's done is done. Drag the FIA over the coals for not doing their job sure. But leave the results alone. (not directed at you tinfoilhat, at the people pushing this matter forward)

tinfoilhat Gold Member

tinfoilhat

Posted
Posted

im with you, i say that once the teams left the track to go home , the FIA pretty much lost their window to alter the result. One wonders why said marshal hasn't stepped forward

JetsetBkk Star Member

JetsetBkk

Posted
Posted (edited)

I liked this quote the best from Alonso:

with a car that is a little bit slower than the others we can win the championship,

with a car that is the same as the others probably we can win the championship a few races before the end,

and with a car that is a lot slower than the others we fight until the last race.

Not sure Domenicali appreciated that!

Did Alonso really say all that?

Yes, on the BBC "F1 Forum" programme.

Amazing.

As for what Domenicali thought about it, not sure it matters. Ferrari treat Alonso like he walks on water. If Domenicali and Alonso ever get into a disagreement, i can't say i'm convinced that it would be Domenicali coming out on top.

Edited by JetsetBkk
LennyW Ruby Member

LennyW

Posted
Posted

That was the issue in dispute that the BBC article mentions. Apparently the green flag being waved was visible in the video on the lap prior or something, but not on the following lap. Anyway, all this is very boring for me. The race is over for goodness sake. What's done is done. Drag the FIA over the coals for not doing their job sure. But leave the results alone. (not directed at you tinfoilhat, at the people pushing this matter forward)

Exactly, move on, or we could be analysing if's, but's and maybe's from now till next season.

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rixalex Diamond Member

rixalex

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Posted

It looked bad on "paper".. seeing it coming out of his mouth.... deary me... the man certainly knows how to blow his own trumpet.

Nice eyebrows too... smile.png

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

The saga seem to go on..

Ferrari wants clarification on Vettel move in Brazilian GP

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104646

But now even Bernie Ecclestone says Ferrari's action is a joke. That must be the first time I remember Ecclestone complain about Ferrari.

“In the rules and regs, normally you have to protest [immediately after the race],” Ecclestone continued, “[Ferrari] missed that time.

“Then there is the fact that a green flag was shown, which nobody seems to dispute. It's a complete joke. What [Ferrari] are saying in that letter is wrong. I don't think there needs to be any action taken. It's completely and utterly wrong. Nothing is going to happen.”

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186562/1/ecclestone_ferrari_reaction_a_shame_for_f1_2012.html

That's it. I'm going to vote with my wallet. I'm not going to replace my old Honda Wave with brand new F430 within the next few years.

b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

Posted
Posted

It looked bad on "paper".. seeing it coming out of his mouth.... deary me... the man certainly knows how to blow his own trumpet.

Nice eyebrows too... smile.png

Why did it look bad on paper ?

He called it as it is and somewaht tongue in cheek but that obviously went over some heads.

Domenicali and Forghheiri both said many times over the season they had not provided the car to Alonso to take the fight to the competition

At the start of the season the Ferrari was 1 to 1.5 seconds off the pace. The car was improved over the season but never the best second or third best car. Vettel won four races on the trot in Asia and kudo's to him but to pretend the car had nohing to do with that is simply ignorant.

The eyebrow comment is just childish

b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

Posted
Posted

http://formula-one.s...rsy-rumbles-on/

and yet more!

Speed tv is showing a marshall with a green flag in the marshalls box (top left, look closely) which would override the mechanical yellow

f1-vettel-timelapse.gif

Tin, you are one of the most sensible posters on here and thanks so much for the videos.

Totally agree that to decide the championship in this way would have damaged the sport but you can't blame Ferrari/Alonso investigating the possibilty when you consider the dollars at stake.

The final race was a thrilling conclusion to an enthralling season and congratulations to Vettel.

Both Vettel and Alonso would have been worthy winners and it's rather sad (though expected) that this thread degenerates into a full-on bashing of Alonso from the usual suspects.

b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

Posted
Posted
<snip>

I hope that Vettel doesn't win, I like it when he doesn't win.. I can't stand it when he says "that's what I'm talking about", I like it when he is disappointed and subdued. To that end I am prepared to see Alonso win..

totster smile.png

post-35489-0-21520500-1353924419_thumb.j

"Yeah baby! That's what I'm talking about!"

Just for you, Tots. tongue.png

wink.png

hahaha !

Well, after that race, I think he thoroughly deserved to win the Championship. I couldn't help but feel respect for him (much as it pained me) thumbsup.gif

totster smile.png

Heh, heh! I must say that, once again, in the post-race interview Alonso was very open about the team putting everything they had into the sport but maybe lacking some ideas to get the performance needed to win, and that at the beginning of the season the car was very slow but they improved it a lot to get so close to winning at the end.

I liked this quote the best from Alonso:

with a car that is a little bit slower than the others we can win the championship,

with a car that is the same as the others probably we can win the championship a few races before the end,

and with a car that is a lot slower than the others we fight until the last race.

Not sure Domenicali appreciated that!

Domenicali himself said several times over the season they had not provided the car for Alonso to win but hey ho

b19bry Silver Member

b19bry

Posted
Posted

.....but Hulk didn't do anything reckless, he just lost the back end a little in the corner...

Debateable..

and with how slippery things were, that wasn't a difficult thing to have done.

Exactly ! Some may argue that charging down the inside into that corner (that he knew was going to be wet and slippy) was indeed reckless.

The sad thing is that if he hadn't done that the chances are he would have finished on the podium which would have been a great result for Force India, he may have even got the pass later in the race, there was still a long race ahead. I was really hoping he was going to win, would have been a great end to the season.

totster smile.png

How do you differentiate between a driver making a mistake and a driver being reckless? Seems to me that by your definition all mistakes could be defined as reckless.

Had Hulk braked too late and gone straight on, missing the corner altogether, and taking out Hamilton in the process, that would have been reckless driving. All that in fact happened was he took the inside line, got the car slowed down ok, but the back stepped out by about a yard. There were fractions in it and had Hamilton been another half yard on the outside, there would have been no contact.

On the one hand the FIA and the spectators want there to be more excitement and more over-taking in the sport, but then when someone does attempt a move that very nearly comes off but doesn't, the driver gets penalised. Basically what we are saying then to the drivers is don't try anything at all daring or audacious, and don't attempt any over-taking unless you are guaranteed 100% for it to be clean, because we'll just give you a drive through if it doesn't come off.

Racing has always had racing accidents and incidents. It's the nature of the fine margins that are involved. The sport has become totally over-policed to the point whereby if drivers drove in the way that regulators are demanding them to, and in a way that guarantees they don't fall foul of penalties, it would become a lot more processional and boring.

Can't imagine that Button or Alonso would have been taken out in this way.

Hamilton is undoubtedly quick but he is not smart. He only knows how to drive flat-out, sometimes as here that is not the best option.

Totster Star Member

Totster

Posted
Posted

Can't imagine that Button or Alonso would have been taken out in this way.

Hamilton is undoubtedly quick but he is not smart. He only knows how to drive flat-out, sometimes as here that is not the best option.

So it's Hamiltons fault that Hulkenberg slid into him ..?

totster :)

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