2012 Formula One Season

[wackysleet]

b19bry.

What I like about debating is the diverse opinions in regards to drivers skill, the truth of the matter is that anyone that get's their arse into a Formula 1 car is an exceptional driver but of course there are some who are head and shoulders above the rest, some who may never aspire to become WDCs due probably to their lack of charismer or there inability to get into the right car at the right moment or is being overshadowed by a much stronger personality in the other car and possibly the best example of that was with Michael at Ferrari, Lewis at Maclaren and now Fernando at Ferrari and Seb at Red Bull last season.

I have always liked Rubens and Fillipe, both in the right car but at the wrong time but with Mark I have never warmed to the bloke for some unknown reason and have never rated him as a top drawer driver and he is a bit of a whinger, possibly due to his frustrations over Seb.

Such a pity {in my opinion} that most of the postings are just before or after race days and there is a lot that could be debated and opinions voiced.

David.

Edited April 6, 2012 by wackysleet

[b19bry]

I can well understand why you may have thought there was more to it, but no, bit of a non-incident that we see all the time really.

Drivers taking their frustrations out on marshalls isn't anything new and Alonso is far from being the only one to have done so, but it is never excusable.Had Luca di Montezemolo or Stefano Domenicali been standing outside his car offering to help him, would he have acted to petulantly? Of course not.

Drivers who take out their frustrations on marshalls do so because i believe they perceive them as nobodies. Not cool.

At the very least, as wackysleet says, a public apology should have been made. And then a line is drawn under it. All the time no apology is made, and all the time you have people arguing that this is acceptable behaviour, feelings will remain.

I think it could have been the Pope and he would have done the same but that is just hypothesis as are so many of your posts

[rixalex]

I think it could have been the Pope and he would have done the same but that is just hypothesis as are so many of your posts

Is it just a coincidence that you share the same superiority complex as the man you admire so, or was it this commonality that drew you to him?

[b19bry]

b19bry.

What I like about debating is the diverse opinions in regards to drivers skill, the truth of the matter is that anyone that get's their arse into a Formula 1 car is an exceptional driver but of course there are some who are head and shoulders above the rest, some who may never aspire to become WDCs due probably to their lack of charismer or there inability to get into the right car at the right moment or is being overshadowed by a much stronger personality in the other car and possibly the best example of that was with Michael at Ferrari, Lewis at Maclaren and now Fernando at Ferrari and Seb at Red Bull last season.

I have always liked Rubens and Fillipe, both in the right car but at the wrong time but with Mark I have never warmed to the bloke for some unknown reason and have never rated him as a top drawer driver and he is a bit of a whinger, possibly due to his frustrations over Seb.

Such a pity {in my opinion} that most of the postings are just before or after race days and there is a lot that could be debated and opinions voiced.

David.

David,

Well almost true, for example I don't think Giovani Amati exactly earned her place on the F1 grid ?

However, I do think Rubens should still be in F1 and would have brought the Williams home in the points in Australia ?

I understand personal preferences but I saw Mark in Oz even before he made it to F1 and he was a serious talent, he then finished in the points in his first outing in F1, things never really worked out for him at the top level, as you say right time right place !

[b19bry]

I think it could have been the Pope and he would have done the same but that is just hypothesis as are so many of your posts

Is it just a coincidence that you share the same superiority complex as the man you admire so, or was it this commonality that drew you to him?

[wackysleet]

b19bry.

My memory of Miss Amati is certainly not what it was and I think that she drove 3? races for Brabham with 3DNQs in 1992 and I suspect that her boyfriend/partner Flavio Briatore had some input on her drive after letting her test drive a Bennetton.

I think what is happening more and more now with so many paid drivers on the grid is unfortunate but I guess somewhat understandable that the manufacturers of the lower teams are going to be looking for the cash.

Have to agree about Rubens remaining at Williams but that miserable sod Frank Williams does not have a great record of retaining drivers, even successful ones as he seems to have little compunction of dumping them.

[b19bry]

b19bry.

My memory of Miss Amati is certainly not what it was and I think that she drove 3? races for Brabham with 3DNQs in 1992 and I suspect that her boyfriend/partner Flavio Briatore had some input on her drive after letting her test drive a Bennetton.

I think what is happening more and more now with so many paid drivers on the grid is unfortunate but I guess somewhat understandable that the manufacturers of the lower teams are going to be looking for the cash.

Have to agree about Rubens remaining at Williams but that miserable sod Frank Williams does not have a great record of retaining drivers, even successful ones as he seems to have little compunction of dumping them.

David,

I think like me you're a long time F1 fan, you might enjoy this (will bring a few tears tho)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmlzni_grand-prix-the-killer-years_auto?start=60#from=embed

Kinda put's things into perspective, these guys had balls of steel, it's why I have trouble when anyone tries to tell me Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, are the greatest ever

[wackysleet]

b19bry.

Your right Bry, it did and such an emotional film which brought back some painful memories of times past that I think gets things into perspective with yesteryears cars being virtually as fast as todays machines and nowhere near as safe, actually akin to mobile fireballs.

I have been an ardent F1 fan since the earliest of times, reading everything I could in the newspapers, dreaming like most youngsters of driving one of these death traps, made it into club rallying but no further, saved my money to visit a race at home and abroad whenever I could and bored my non fan friends with stories of races I had seen.

I have always believed that a drivers actual ability is a subjective thing and possibly closely related to the machinery he is currently driving in as much that there are certainly very good drivers who will never make a big name for themselves driving uncompetative machinery, just think that with the very different budgets available to teams it would seem that the front runners will always be the front runners but saying that look at Williams drop into the midfield.

[wackysleet]

I am in London at the moment {bloody cold too} but back home next weekend in time to see the race and I have a feeling in my water that Jenson will be the main man, at least I do hope so.

So I'm going to stick my neck out here, Jenson 1st, Fernando 2nd and Lewis 3rd and if I get that right I will start to do the lottery, anyone else got a prediction?.

David

P.S. Michael for 4th.

[rixalex]

I am in London at the moment {bloody cold too} but back home next weekend in time to see the race and I have a feeling in my water that Jenson will be the main man, at least I do hope so.

So I'm going to stick my neck out here, Jenson 1st, Fernando 2nd and Lewis 3rd and if I get that right I will start to do the lottery, anyone else got a prediction?.

David

P.S. Michael for 4th.

Interesting prediction there David. Brave man to do so before knowing what conditions will be like, or how things pan out in qualifying. Braver than me anyway.

Any reason why you think Ferrari and Mercedes is going to fare better than Red Bull?

[wackysleet]

rixalex.

Having read everything available with regards to performance it would seem that Maclaren may well have their nose in front with possibly Mercedes a bit of a dark horse and Michael is still capable of mixing it with the best, Ferrari appears to be lacking in both speed and handling but Fernando is a master at getting the best out of any old dog as he recently demostrated and over the past two seasons.

Red Bull I think will need at least another two races to get everything working right so I certainly would not rule them out of winning the WDC and the Manufactures championship again.

Maclaren I feel will remain the front runners and it will be interesting to see who will come out on top, my own view and preference of course would be Jenson, I just think his whole demeaner is geared up better than Lewis, Michael has this year to improve or he will be out and I think the same will apply to Mark, although for several seasons I have stated that Sebastian would make the top spot which he has but I think he may struggle a bit this season.

David.

[b19bry]

I am in London at the moment {bloody cold too} but back home next weekend in time to see the race and I have a feeling in my water that Jenson will be the main man, at least I do hope so.

So I'm going to stick my neck out here, Jenson 1st, Fernando 2nd and Lewis 3rd and if I get that right I will start to do the lottery, anyone else got a prediction?.

David

P.S. Michael for 4th.

David,

Well if you can get 1st through 4th correct I will, without question or hesitation buy you a beer or 4

Mclaren certainly seem to have the edge at present so I'd put money on one of them them to take the win. The podium to be completed by Vettel and the other Mclaren.

I can't see Ferrari getting on the podium again unless the weather comes into play, having said that the forecast at present is for rain

I'd like Lotus and in particular Kimi to get a trouble free run, if so he could spring a surprise as could Mercedes

[rixalex]

rixalex.

Having read everything available with regards to performance it would seem that Maclaren may well have their nose in front with possibly Mercedes a bit of a dark horse and Michael is still capable of mixing it with the best, Ferrari appears to be lacking in both speed and handling but Fernando is a master at getting the best out of any old dog as he recently demostrated and over the past two seasons.

Red Bull I think will need at least another two races to get everything working right so I certainly would not rule them out of winning the WDC and the Manufactures championship again.

Maclaren I feel will remain the front runners and it will be interesting to see who will come out on top, my own view and preference of course would be Jenson, I just think his whole demeaner is geared up better than Lewis, Michael has this year to improve or he will be out and I think the same will apply to Mark, although for several seasons I have stated that Sebastian would make the top spot which he has but I think he may struggle a bit this season.

David.

McClaren have seemed to have their noses in front so far this season, but more in qualifying than on race day, when both Red Bull and Ferrari have shown themselves quite able to keep pace or even go faster. So for me, still all very much up in the air with all to play for.

As far as the drivers are concerned, i would say with varying degrees of certainty, that Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and Rosberg will end up with more points than their team mates come September. Hamilton and Rosberg obviously face bigger challenges but long term i'm sure this will do both of them good, in many different ways, even if it does mean losing some points as a result.

Button was excellent last season and has started well this season too, but in my mind, his advantage over Hamilton has often come down to race tactics and maturity, which is stuff that Hamilton can and, i think as we saw in the last race, is learning. What Hamilton has, which we saw in both qualifying sessions, that extra ability to ring out more pace from the car, i don't think Button can learn.

Now, not on the topic of F1, but on the topic of our posts here, just a tiny thing David, but i do wonder, (if we desire, as i think we both do, fresh input, new blood and different perspective), if by addressing our comments specifically to each other, we encourage others into the debate, or whether perhaps it might appear a bit cliquey; as if we are having a private conversation? I know that would in no way be your intention, or mine either, to exclude others, but, and it is only a suggestion that you are of course free to ignore or disagree with, it might be better to drop the personalisation, and save it for PMing? Anyway, only a thought...

[wackysleet]

I understand the reasoning behind the thought of personalising a posting but do it when replying to a specific post from another fan, actually I don't see a lot of difference to putting in a previous post and answering that.

Unfortunately as the last few seasons have shown very few posters are active except on race weekends so I feel it would benefit from further imput but that has not materialised and it's the same people that regularly post, hence the reason I stopped posting so perhaps it may be the way to go and just post on race weekends as so few of the regulars bother.

[rixalex]

I understand the reasoning behind the thought of personalising a posting but do it when replying to a specific post from another fan, actually I don't see a lot of difference to putting in a previous post and answering that.

Unfortunately as the last few seasons have shown very few posters are active except on race weekends so I feel it would benefit from further imput but that has not materialised and it's the same people that regularly post, hence the reason I stopped posting so perhaps it may be the way to go and just post on race weekends as so few of the regulars bother.

Yes you are probably right. Be it addressing a person by name, or be it quoting their post, as i have done here, guess it amounts to the same things. Perhaps clutching at straws. Just looking for any way to expand the debate a bit, but as you rightly say, maybe the interest just isn't there.

Sorry to see in the news today that Bahrain might be off the calender again. One less race is one less weekend to get excited this year. Shame.

[F1fanatic]

I haven't posted for a while as my screen and modem 'blew up' during a storm!

Having said that, I probably wouldn't have commented anyway as I have no intelligent contribution to make on the subject of the next race (as I posted before, I still have no idea about the relative merits of the teams, other than McLaren who seem to be 'at the top of the tree' at the moment).

I still enjoy reading others' posts though.

[rixalex]

I haven't posted for a while as my screen and modem 'blew up' during a storm!

Having said that, I probably wouldn't have commented anyway as I have no intelligent contribution to make on the subject of the next race (as I posted before, I still have no idea about the relative merits of the teams, other than McLaren who seem to be 'at the top of the tree' at the moment).

I still enjoy reading others' posts though.

Sorry to hear about your technical issues F1. Hope to hear more from you now.

Speaking of technical issues, Hamilton has just received a five place penalty for a new gearbox in China. Seeing as he hasn't had a great deal of luck from starting from the front this year, perhaps the challenge of coming through the pack will do the trick.

[Mosha]

Not wanting to be a smart arse, BBC Newsworld mentioned it mid week.

[b19bry]

Not wanting to be a smart arse, BBC Newsworld mentioned it mid week.

Really, I wouldn't have thought F1's screen and modem were that newsworthy

Anyway, congratulations to Nico fantastic result, what an interesting qualifying, all to play for in the race.

Still fancy Mclaren to finish well but what happened to Vettel ?

[KeyserSoze01]

Poor Sebastian, not making it out of Q2. He must be throwing his toys from the pram, again.

[wackysleet]

F1fanatic.

From previous posts you have made I have always thought that your comments were interesting and as for the relative merits of this seasons cars I think most of us are still in the dark as to their real performance so your really not alone there.

I have never thought that this forum should only be about pre and post race analysis as I'm sure posters would be interested in any anecdotes one has or experiences from past races they may have witnessed, opinions of old/new drivers, yesteryears cars/drivers this could enhance the enjoyment of the forum, just a thought.

David.

[F1fanatic]

I too expect a Mclaren to win (hopefully Jenson as I'm not a Lewis fan), but am amazed at Merc's quali performance. Nico in particular put in a stunning lap. Unfortunately I doubt it will last in the race as even Schumi and Nico don't seem v confident about the race!

If Kobi doesn't take out Schumi, there's a small chance though that Schumi may get on the podium .

It will be interesting to see how Vettel gets through the field and I would like to see Webber do well.

[Mosha]

Great race, and wow Webber was a lucky boy!

[b19bry]

Fantastic to have a new winner & congratulations to Nico, this win was a long time coming.

Jenson so unlucky though, fantastic start and he surely could have won if not for his last pit stop. But great the way he handled it, which must have been more than a little disappointing.

Kimi & Lotus looking promising too, good to see.

Mclaren looking strong for Bahrain.

[rixalex]

Many congrats to Nico. Seems like a really nice guy, and he drove a great race from start to finish. Certainly put paid to any thoughts that this season Schumi was going to emerge above him in the team.

Both Jenson and Hamilton have good cause to wonder what if. Jenson for the bungled pit stop and Hamilton for not starting on the front row because of the gearbox penalty. I happen to think however, neither driver would have been able to do much about Nico's pace. He was unstoppable. Still, McClaren drivers have good cause to feel happy with their places in the standings. If this season continues to be up and down, with Ferrari, Red Bull, McClaren and Mercedes, all alternating with race wins, it could at the end of the season be the driver who has most consistently finished high in the points who wins WDC, rather than the driver with the most wins.

Great to see tightly packed bunches and hard fought over-taking moves. Shaping into one of the most interesting seasons we have seen for a while.

[F1fanatic]

It was a v good race, albeit disappointing for me as Schumi's bad luck continues.

Rosberg didn't put a foot wrong and deserved the race win.

As you say Rivalex, its looking as if its going to be an exciting season!

[Mosha]

Fantastic to have a new winner & congratulations to Nico, this win was a long time coming.

Jenson so unlucky though, fantastic start and he surely could have won if not for his last pit stop. But great the way he handled it, which must have been more than a little disappointing.

Kimi & Lotus looking promising too, good to see.

Mclaren looking strong for Bahrain.

Bernie needs a new set of advisers if he is being told there are no problems in Bahrain.

[rixalex]

Bernie needs a new set of advisers if he is being told there are no problems in Bahrain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17767985

I think you are right Mosha. I wonder if they are going to do a last minute u-turn... if not the FIA, some of the teams and drivers. Doesn't seem to me like safety can be guaranteed.

Hope i'm wrong and that all goes ahead without a hitch.

[Mosha]

4 of the Force India team were caught up in a petrol bomb attack. Fortunately none of them were hurt. 1 of them has asked to be flown home.

[ignis]

Would have thought that for safety and security it would have been easier for all of F1 teams to have made use of there Motor-homes, brought in a load of camp beds, better to rough it a bit for 4 days then get caught up with the unrest outside..