Over 1 Million Thais Are Infected With Hiv/Aids

[punkonater]

Enforcing sex education in ALL schools and in a National TV program would help. Not mentioned in the budget expenditure - not important maybe. Wouldn't like to admit that it REALLY happens...

I think not only that, but why drug abuse with dirty needles increases your risk significantly too.

[SPIKECM]

An example of hearsay:

I know a "working woman" who has had lots and lots of sex with foreigners, always using a condom. She did NOT use a condom with her husband. Why would she, right? That said, her husband turned out to be HIV positive, and ultimately died from AIDS. Years later, the woman in question still had not contracted the disease.

True story, however, anecdotal, and as I've lost touch with the woman in question, there is no longer any way to substantiate the matter. It is only hearsay. Probably best to ignore it.

If we should ignore it, why write it? Strange! I believe your story is true and I have heard similar stuff myself. Anecdotal perhaps, but in many ways truer than simple statistics.....you talk to the numbers and the numbers will tell you anything you want them to. What's so wrong with anecdotes? In many ways they give a better observation of what is happening on the ground than NGO statistics. For example, when it comes to the number of child prostitutes in Thailand, the NGO numbers are beyond any credibility and I believe are there simply to give them an excuse to have their own lifestyle financed.

Edited March 19, 2012 by SPIKECM

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd like to remind posters on this thread that it is not permitted to spread HIV myths on Thaivisa. Some posts have been deleted.

[regine]

Holding oneself to a few moral guidlelines does wonders to basically eliminating the threat of HIV.

Especially if you are married to someone with similar conviction.

That's the same kind of attitude that Jehovah Witnesseses probably had during the tainted blood scandals in Canada, UK, France, Japan, etc.

Acts 15:29: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

People contracting HIV from blood transfusions. If only they had higher moral guidelines to stay away from blood! I mean, didn't they read the bible?

[canuckamuck]

Holding oneself to a few moral guidlelines does wonders to basically eliminating the threat of HIV.

Especially if you are married to someone with similar conviction.

That's the same kind of attitude that Jehovah Witnesseses probably had during the tainted blood scandals in Canada, UK, France, Japan, etc.

Acts 15:29: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

People contracting HIV from blood transfusions. If only they had higher moral guidelines to stay away from blood! I mean, didn't they read the bible?

Attempted straw man

Fail!

[SantiSuk]

FWIW nearly 3000 people seem to be reading this thread right now.....

So 60 of us have HIV then. Pretty sobering thought.

[unanimosity]

The province with the highest rate of AIDS is Chiang Rai, which would surprise most people. For the number of 1 million Thais with AIDS, I would really like to see a breakdown between men and women. I think the ratio would be shocking. There is also a false assumption that if a woman has AIDS, or the the man, that the ratio of risk of transmission is 50/50. That is simply not true. The woman is at far higher risk of getting AIDS from an infected man, than vice versa...

So you are of the opinion that this is a hetero disease? Are you not aware of the men to men infection rate?

[Chopperboy]

people are living longer simply because of meds and earlier detection. and it's not 5 or 10 years, we're talking 45+ (ie someone at 20 getting hiv and starting meds and taking them properly can expect to live a full life)

The meds can give an extra 10 years of life over what would have been the case without treatment. However, co-morbidity becomes the issue where patients can get heart disease from the meds. At latter stages (even on the meds) they get diseases like Cancers, Pneumonia etc.

In this last 18 months there seems to have been an explosion of people I know, or know off who appear to have stage symptoms of HIV (whether they know it or not). I think the complacency from the Thaksin years has now made HIV in Thailand epidemic.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Chopperboy

[Jingthing]

The province with the highest rate of AIDS is Chiang Rai, which would surprise most people. For the number of 1 million Thais with AIDS, I would really like to see a breakdown between men and women. I think the ratio would be shocking. There is also a false assumption that if a woman has AIDS, or the the man, that the ratio of risk of transmission is 50/50. That is simply not true. The woman is at far higher risk of getting AIDS from an infected man, than vice versa...

So you are of the opinion that this is a hetero disease? Are you not aware of the men to men infection rate?

Globally, and in Thailand, most people who get infected with HIV are NOT gay men. However, on the other hand, infection rates are high in the small minority of the world that ARE gay men. No need to call it a sexual orientation based disease. It is a human disease. Edited March 19, 2012 by Jingthing

[TPI]

The temple in Lop Buri will only take HIV people for 2 months. I asked why and they told me they don't last more than that...2 ovens going flat chat! A room with a huge pyramid of bags of powdered bone, 2 mummified naked corpses on tables outside, lines of school children (primary) being told what its all about...this is what should happen in every province!

[Jingthing]

Sounds like a hospice.

[TPI]

Holding oneself to a few moral guidlelines does wonders to basically eliminating the threat of HIV.

Especially if you are married to someone with similar conviction.

That's the same kind of attitude that Jehovah Witnesseses probably had during the tainted blood scandals in Canada, UK, France, Japan, etc.

Acts 15:29: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

People contracting HIV from blood transfusions. If only they had higher moral guidelines to stay away from blood! I mean, didn't they read the bible?

It seems logical that the writer was referring to animal blood in the diet, blood transfusions didn't exist nor was it thought of in those days. Some "Christians" make you wonder at their sanity!

[metisdead]

A post has been removed due to possible violation of copyright and non compliance of fair use. It is generally accepted, but not written into law, that quoting the first two or three sentences of an article and giving a link to the source is considered “fair use” and not a violation of copyright.

[Chopperboy]

Breakthrough in HIV Research - Sept 2011

For the first time, researchers have shown that a cell-based therapy for HIV/AIDS can reduce the amount of virus in infected people. Sangamo's approach is based on the observation that some people have a naturally occurring mutation in the CCR5 gene that protects them against HIV.

http://m.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/38630/

[yumidesign]

Worrisome. So every 60th person affected

these figures are ridiculous, reported by who and the reference to underage unprotected sex based on what information. its all smoke and mirrors with a mix of bad journalism thrown in

[blackthorn2005]

About the same number of HIV infected as in the U.S.A. which has about five times the population. Not good.

This is no surprise, like many other areas, the Thais only pay lip service, talk but no action, in Patong the hospital actually discriminates against foreigners, which puts them off going and being treated!

[metisdead]

An off topic post and reply have been removed.

[RedQualia]

An example of hearsay:

I know a "working woman" who has had lots and lots of sex with foreigners, always using a condom. She did NOT use a condom with her husband. Why would she, right? That said, her husband turned out to be HIV positive, and ultimately died from AIDS. Years later, the woman in question still had not contracted the disease.

True story, however, anecdotal, and as I've lost touch with the woman in question, there is no longer any way to substantiate the matter. It is only hearsay. Probably best to ignore it.

If we should ignore it, why write it? Strange! I believe your story is true and I have heard similar stuff myself. Anecdotal perhaps, but in many ways truer than simple statistics.....you talk to the numbers and the numbers will tell you anything you want them to. What's so wrong with anecdotes? In many ways they give a better observation of what is happening on the ground than NGO statistics. For example, when it comes to the number of child prostitutes in Thailand, the NGO numbers are beyond any credibility and I believe are there simply to give them an excuse to have their own lifestyle financed.

Several problems, really. To start, many of the posts in this thread present opinion as fact. This is in part driven by the extremely poor quality of the original "news summary" at the start of the thread. ThaiVisa gets lots of drive-by comments, such as "As with most countries this is the figure that they are fairly confident about. The real figure is much higher." Which leads to subsequent statements such as "With 1 in 60 Thais infected, that would surely mean a much higher proportion among sex workers. One in 7? One in 5?" Another drive-by comment: "Aids HUB of the world. Grats thais." Absolutely no basis for such a statement. Anything goes with hearsay. alansanitwong, wrote, "You wonder how many HIV infected bar and street prostitutes are based in Pattaya. Thais have always said that AIDS is a huge problem down there. I was told years ago that there is an AIDS colony outside Bangkok thats kept out of the media spotlight full of ex bar girls, spa boys and other hookers. Ive seen a picture of an AIDS ward in one of those black and white Thai magazines. Awful stuff. Looks like old pics of Changi WW2." To which kerryk properly replied, "I was told there are no street prostitutes based in Pattaya. The Thais I know have said there is not a problem in Pattaya. Years ago someone told me that silly Farangs believed there was an AIDS colony outside of Bangkok but normal people knew it was only a rumor to scare children."

Global moderator ijustwannateach says, "I'd like to remind posters on this thread that it is not permitted to spread HIV myths on Thaivisa." Given the poor quality of the original "news summary" posting, along with the poor quality of the greater half of the comments, ijustwannateach's statement appears untrue. A very great deal of the stuff in this thread is myth based.

And that's the problem with hearsay, and anecdotal stories. Misinformation, disinformation, and wild speculation, presented as fact, with no one apparently caring so long as you go with the approved idea that HIV exists.

And contrast hearsay to postings that include a reference: This links to a posting from The Nation, which says among other things, "More than a million Thais had caught HIV since the first case was reported in 1984 and two thirds of these - some 644,128 people - had died of Aids, the Public Health Ministry revealed yesterday." Sorta contradicts the original "news summary" on which this thread is based, with far less ambiguity.

Edited March 19, 2012 by RedQualia

[BookMan]

The province with the highest rate of AIDS is Chiang Rai, which would surprise most people. For the number of 1 million Thais with AIDS, I would really like to see a breakdown between men and women. I think the ratio would be shocking. There is also a false assumption that if a woman has AIDS, or the the man, that the ratio of risk of transmission is 50/50. That is simply not true. The woman is at far higher risk of getting AIDS from an infected man, than vice versa...

So you are of the opinion that this is a hetero disease? Are you not aware of the men to men infection rate?

It is not one or the other. It affects men and women. Through sex and shared needle usage being most common.

[BookMan]

An example of hearsay:

I know a "working woman" who has had lots and lots of sex with foreigners, always using a condom. She did NOT use a condom with her husband. Why would she, right? That said, her husband turned out to be HIV positive, and ultimately died from AIDS. Years later, the woman in question still had not contracted the disease.

True story, however, anecdotal, and as I've lost touch with the woman in question, there is no longer any way to substantiate the matter. It is only hearsay. Probably best to ignore it.

If we should ignore it, why write it? Strange! I believe your story is true and I have heard similar stuff myself. Anecdotal perhaps, but in many ways truer than simple statistics.....you talk to the numbers and the numbers will tell you anything you want them to. What's so wrong with anecdotes? In many ways they give a better observation of what is happening on the ground than NGO statistics. For example, when it comes to the number of child prostitutes in Thailand, the NGO numbers are beyond any credibility and I believe are there simply to give them an excuse to have their own lifestyle financed.

Statistics are far better than personal anecdotes for making informed judgements on important issues. Personal anecdotes often involve a small sphere of reach. Personal experiences can cloud judgement in that a personal experience can become 'fact' for a person, when it might not be the case in a broader picture.

Statistics, when collected correctly, should offer more accurate assessments of a situation. Some NGOs have been caught out making up stats to suit their agenda as have governments and self interested groups. Organisations can conduct or collect statistics and results in any manner to get a pre determined answer, if that is what they want. But this is not the case for everything. There are plenty of pure statistics around that can be relied upon. You just have to critically analyse statistics when provided with them.

[ttelise]

I've been living in Thailand for 12 years and been around Thailand for over 20 years and I have never once come across one single farang who has contracted HIV... I have heard many many stories of rural living Thais with HIV and dying of aids... but I know only one bar girl with HIV... she was at death's door, lying in hospital delirious and not much over 30 kilos in weight...I saw her lying there.. but has since recovered and now looks as healthy as a butcher's dog and survives on drugs issued under the Thai National Health Service (what else would you call it?)...she used to sleep with young "gay for pay" boys so one has to assume she contracted it from them.... the highest at risk of coming into contact with HIV in Thailand are rural women who tend to be faithful to a philandering male who has sex on the side with cheap rural prostitutes who engage in unprotected sex with multiple high risk partners. The "good girls" who stay in their village are probably a lot higher risk of contracting HIV than the ones who opt for the easy Bangkok/Pattaya bar girl lifestyle....and the big danger for the bar girls there is their Thai boyfriend on the side (almost 100% of 18-30 year olds have one)....who will in many cases be bi-sexual and/or be a prostitute himself.

Duh, that's because no one talks about it or admits they have it over there and there is no way if knowing until they are on deaths doorstep. I have known people with HIV and AIDs. You would never know the HIV carriers or people that have HIV unless they knew and told you. When it is in full blown AIDs, then you can tell something not right or they look frail and sick.

[KeyserSoze01]

I was told there are no street prostitutes based in Pattaya.

Now you're just taking a piss.

[RedQualia]

I was told there are no street prostitutes based in Pattaya.

Now you're just taking a piss.

And still as valid as half or more of the other comments in this thread. Which is to say, BS is just BS. Which is what kerryk was saying, I'm sure.

[RedQualia]

Looks like it's been proven now that even the headline of this entire thread is just so much BS. All the reader need do is look at the =documented= posts in the past few pages. If this thread remains intact, and isn't simply deleted in its entirety, then it stands as a monument to ThaiVisa's own ability to spread BS.

[marstons]

Figures.

My current and previous girlfriends had no clue about contraceptives and STDs.

When I first came here 20 years ago every girl insisted on condom use for fear of HIV. Now they all say they don't like condoms and don't want me to use one. And I'm not talking about hookers here, but girls you would consider educated and with an ability to think about the future.

The 20-25 age group in particular seem to have no fear of HIV at all.

this suprised me, i have relationships with none bar girls, usually with good jobs and degree's and as yet not one has even mentioned a condom. guess the flip side is neither did i.

[smedly]

I'll do a sumary of this whole thread

1. Ignore the numbers game as it actually means nothing to individuals, discussing it is pointless

2. If you have not had an HIV test go imediatelay and get one (along with your partner if you have one), if you don't you are irresponsible to yourself and risk infecting other people you come in contact with, the thought being assume you have it unless proven otherwise - seriously - that is how you must look at this as far as I can see, because the people that don't know are the extreme risk factor in this mess - not the people that have it and are being treated.

3. If in doubt (which is nearly always) - use protection

Liike in an earlier post I commented - I can't understand my friends on holiday here and refuse to wear protection - maybe having unprotected sex with 30 - 40 women over a couple of months - that means if the first one had...... you do the figures

Edited March 19, 2012 by smedly

[theblether]

I understand also that young Thai men have a cultural attitude to homosexuality which differs from many other cultures. In effect bi-sexuality is far more prevalent, and that combined with the relatively rough attitude to hetrosexual sex results in far more women being exposed than in many other societies.

It's almost the diabolical master plan for HIV transmission.

To make it even worse, many idiot farang go bareback either through choice or drunken stupidity.

So here is a terrifying thought for, the majority of new HIV infections in the UK are from people who contracted it overseas.

You need to be more than careful out there.

The older the male the less likely he will be wearing protection, because the sensitivity level dramatically decreases the older you get....meaning they can't feel anything through a rubber lining.

I understand that......and there has been a massive increase in STD's on the over 50 age group in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096610/Increasing-risk-STDs-50-demographic-sex-ever.html

I've seen some idiotically deluded older men in Thailand. laughable in their lack of self awareness, the best/worst one was a guy who told me that he paid extra to his long time BG for bareback sex, while telling her that she hadn't to do it with anyone else as it was too dangerous .

That's why I'm pointing out that the greatest percentage of new HIV infection cases in the UK come from overseas infections.

[kerryk]

I was told there are no street prostitutes based in Pattaya.

Now you're just taking a piss.

And still as valid as half or more of the other comments in this thread. Which is to say, BS is just BS. Which is what kerryk was saying, I'm sure.

I was just taking a piss and comparing my comments with the others that posters expect others to take as fact with no documentation. I really don't see how anyone would believe anyone else based on something heard or gossip or rumor. It is just silly.

Edited March 20, 2012 by kerryk

[kerryk]

Figures.

My current and previous girlfriends had no clue about contraceptives and STDs.

When I first came here 20 years ago every girl insisted on condom use for fear of HIV. Now they all say they don't like condoms and don't want me to use one. And I'm not talking about hookers here, but girls you would consider educated and with an ability to think about the future.

The 20-25 age group in particular seem to have no fear of HIV at all.

this suprised me, i have relationships with none bar girls, usually with good jobs and degree's and as yet not one has even mentioned a condom. guess the flip side is neither did i.

I never got an STD from a bar girl. 2 nurses, a 7/11 clerk but never a bar girl.

[Reasonableman]

Figures.

My current and previous girlfriends had no clue about contraceptives and STDs.

When I first came here 20 years ago every girl insisted on condom use for fear of HIV. Now they all say they don't like condoms and don't want me to use one. And I'm not talking about hookers here, but girls you would consider educated and with an ability to think about the future.

The 20-25 age group in particular seem to have no fear of HIV at all.

this suprised me, i have relationships with none bar girls, usually with good jobs and degree's and as yet not one has even mentioned a condom. guess the flip side is neither did i.

I never got an STD from a bar girl. 2 nurses, a 7/11 clerk but never a bar girl.

You're an inspiration to us all.