Should I Stay Or Should I Go?

[englishoak]

Iv'e been back in the uk now for the past 2 years after living in Thailand for the previous 3 years. I have to admit it has been harder to re-adjust than I thought. Most of you returning to the uk will understand what I mean without me harping on.

My status is Happily married to a thai here in the uk with a daughter currently in LOS. If I bring her over then I will have to stay for at least 5 years to maximise her education here.

I'm 40 years young and active, love going out but since returning I am feeling trapped and am all too aware I am letting my best years slip on by in the UK

I should also mention that all my friends in Thailand are Thai and I am very used to and enjoy living Thai style. Adjusting will not be a problem

At present I can liquidate assets to the tune of 200k invest in offshore at lets say 4.5% = 9000 pa. with the bonus of about 100K maturing in 5 years and another 150k in 10 years.

I reckon to set up a life in LOL i'll have to invest between 2-4m bht. Or lets say 50k That will include land,house,car,fittings etc

That will leave about 150k x 4.5% = 6750pa

I expect after a year I will probably be earning 10000bht a month as before. pocket money but got to do something and I enjoy it.

I don't intend to draw on my savings but live off the interest. As I see it, I only have to scrape by for a few years. I feel like i'm doing that already in the uk.

I have a property in the uk and have rented out while I was in LOS I did find it a pain and although it allowed me a life in thailand I don't relish doing that again long term.

With a family in the UK I don't see my savings increasing over the time I am here. (It's not cheap to take a family on holiday to Thailand)

I also believe that over the next 5 years property here will drop or stagnate at the least. That in turn bodes well for savings if I am right, plus allows a return to invest in property before another upturn.

My main problem is I need to liquidate the house to get capital. re mortgage is out as it would affect money gained from a rental.

My dilemma is this should I sell up & get back to where I am comfortable, LOS or stick it out in the uk for 5 years.

What would you do?

[thaiflyer1]

In short..............sell up.

Thats providing your sure you wont want to return to the UK to live at some point in the future.

Home is where the heart is.......anything else is just existing.

Edited December 18, 2005 by thaiflyer1

[sierra01]

I see 2 options here, 5 years may see like a lifetime but you'll only be 45 then, and your daughter will have had her UK education. That will be the time to come back to LOS.

Sell up and enroll your daughter in a good school here to finish her education, it'll take a bit of your capital away but at least you'll be living where your happiest living.

It's not an easy call, and everyone and his dog will have an opinion on what you should do, but at the end of the day only you can make it.

My opinion? Option 2.

[Krub]

Do you have a pension to look forward to at 60 or 65 ?

If not, what happens if the interrest rates drop to 1% or below.

What if the rate of exchange drastically fluctuates ?

You might need to eat your capital and at 40 it is too early to do that

[sua yai]

I think 40's a bit young. I'm in the same position as you - rent my property out, live off that here, get headaches etc with it from time to time, but have a reasonable lifestyle.

I could sell up and probably net 300K pounds and live off the interest. I would be slightly better off doing so, but if interest rates change for the worse, the prospect is not so appealing. I'm at the mercy of exchange rates now anyway.

The two big differences between us are that I don't have kids yet - although I'm married - and I'm 47.

I made the decision a number of years ago to wait until I was 50 before deciding whether to sell up. I am still of the same mind.

[marshbags]

I was in a similar situation to yourself and sought the advice of a reputable

financial advisor in Thailand.

He advised me to invest in various areas internationally, plus a trust fund and also to sell my property in the U.K. and use the proceeds from this as well for investment elsewhere.

I decided to keep my property and rent but invest as advised above with SOME of my capital.

He also advised me to rent here and not buy as ownership here is dodgy and i could finish up losing it.

The advice to rent here has turned out to be good in my opinion and i am happy

doing that.

The advice to invest wasn,t so good and i lost quite a bit on and i have since put it into U.K. investments which give me a set amount annually and cut my losses.

This for me was a good move, never mind the long term investments the experts recommend, i am satisfied with my outcome.

Not the sort of returns my advisor said i could expect but a steady sum i am very happy with.

My home on the other hand has increased in value of over 100% during this time and more than makes up for my losses.

On top of this i have rent coming in that is also paying for our stay here.

My decision to keep it against the advice given was two fold.

1) I would have somewhere to live and something to fall back on if things didn,t work out.

2) I would get an additional income also by renting it out.

I am again very happy i followed my instincs.

O.K. you get hassle from renting but i have a reputable agent managing the property for me and collecting the rents.

The rewards more than make up for the negatives, believe me, but get a reputable agent and a proper lease signed.

I have been here 13 years now and have a wife and a daughter and while i am very happy, i wish there was more security for foreigners and laws that protect

ownership of a family home ect. at the very least.

If you look at the economic situation here and corruption that we all witness i would not recommend putting all your eggs in a Thai basket.

I was here in the 1997 crash and it wasn,t a good time for any of us with money in the bank, never mind the politics of it all.

Others may disagee with me but i am only giving you my version of reality from

a legal point of view and more important from my experiences.

I am not a cynic nor a basher of Thailand as i am happy with the positive and knowing i can go home to something in the U.K. makes life much easier.

So this is my personal offering but no doubt you will get others who will disagree

and think 13 years out here count for nothing, especially as am not a senior member of T. Visa.

Ha Ha Ha, had to get that in as an anticipation of things to come back, no offence people.

Good luck in your future and if i can offer any more insight i am willing to expand further on my info.

marshbags

[Soph]

My status is Happily married to a thai here in the uk with a daughter currently in LOS. If I bring her over then I will have to stay for at least 5 years to maximise her education here.

Sorry - just didnt quite understand - you are married to a Thai in the UK, but your daughter is in Thailand? - how old is your child and why isnt she with you - just curious.

[sabaijai]

Am moving this to General Topics where it might get more response, and also because it's not directly related to Thai visas, residency and work permits.

[lopburi3]

If you can only look forward to making pocket money in Thailand do not understand your desire to return - or is it the "I'm 40 years young and active, love going out but since returning I am feeling trapped' quote - which does not look too promising for a long term marriage from my reading.

In the UK you can work at a money earning job - if your wife is inclined to work I am sure she can also find a productive job and your daughter will be able to obtain a decent education that would cost a fortune in Thailand and have the future opportunity to do the same.

To me you are living for yourself with the maturity of a 21 year old - but perhaps that is not the negative an old guy like me makes it.

I would stick where the money and opportunity is at your age.

[stevehaigh]

i'm in the "you may get hit by a bus tommorow" camp. don't keep putting off your life, you only have one (unless you are a buddist of course) so live it now.

[Dragonman]

i'm in the "you may get hit by a bus tommorow" camp. don't keep putting off your life, you only have one (unless you are a buddist of course) so live it now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with Steve.

Englishoak, you obviously sound as if not doing it is making you miserable, and anything that happens in your current position you will blame on not having moved to Thailand. Do it, do it. I did , but I was 49.

[Heng]

As long as you have 100% equity on your home(s) and automobile(s) here, it's easier to live quite comfortably in the LOS on interest income that wouldn't go very far in the west. That's the standard 1/3 cost of living. And if you would like live in or part time help (servants, nannies, nurses, orderlies, etc.) the cost of these services is more like 1/4 to 1/8+ of the cost in the west. Probably not necessary for most people now, but when you get old (over 60) you'll likely appreciate having these options.

Edited December 19, 2005 by Heng

[marshbags]

If you can only look forward to making pocket money in Thailand do not understand your desire to return - or is it the "I'm 40 years young and active, love going out but since returning I am feeling trapped' quote - which does not look too promising for a long term marriage from my reading.

In the UK you can work at a money earning job - if your wife is inclined to work I am sure she can also find a productive job and your daughter will be able to obtain a decent education that would cost a fortune in Thailand and have the future opportunity to do the same.

To me you are living for yourself with the maturity of a 21 year old - but perhaps that is not the negative an old guy like me makes it.

I would stick where the money and opportunity is at your age.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Along with what i put in my post previously i would agree totally with what lopuri has said.

Put your family first then you can always return here for holidays and retire here after your daughters completed her education in the U.K.

That,s assuming your daughters circumstances allow her to be with you there.

Don,t read this as being nosey or personal but i suspect there are personal issues with this part about her, perhaps the forum can offer further help and advice if this is the case.

Regarding my last remark in my first post about seniors, i would like to say that the majority of our members are really very good and allow and accept other points of view as i hope i have shown by tempting re actions.

I was re acting to comments in another forum that was negative and not a fair comment to the majority.

Thai Visa is a very good site to glean information from experienced people who have been there ect. so ignore the negative comments and take the good ones on board. we are very lucky to have this web site

marshbags

[Tyree D.]

up 2 you

[Buff-horns]

its surprising how fast guys who locate to LOS get thru their money ,house,cars,bikes,family to take care of, entertainment,visits back home .

and from hearing other guys who as they age they kinda get the longings to go back home . some guys as they age do fall out of love with LOS.

elderly gents dont appear to be able to handle the heat .

[fanta rood]

will you get bored if you retire early? what if everyone in europe decides to go on early retirement? is it fair to others if you go on early retirement while the others still need to work and pay for your retirement? what about the future of your kids?

Edited December 19, 2005 by fanta rood

[englishoak]

If you can only look forward to making pocket money in Thailand do not understand your desire to return - or is it the "I'm 40 years young and active, love going out but since returning I am feeling trapped' quote - which does not look too promising for a long term marriage from my reading.

In the UK you can work at a money earning job - if your wife is inclined to work I am sure she can also find a productive job and your daughter will be able to obtain a decent education that would cost a fortune in Thailand and have the future opportunity to do the same.

To me you are living for yourself with the maturity of a 21 year old - but perhaps that is not the negative an old guy like me makes it. 

Lopburi I am surprised at the shallow comments. You are assuming I would be working hard to earn the pocket money, in fact it means working for two - three days as for the trapped quote why do you assume I refer to my wife ?? I refer to the inability to do the same in the UK and be out a lot, and I meant together as in Thailand as a family.

You miss the point of the post entirely and assume to know my family . I am all too aware of not being selfish and it's possible that I am considering where my family is happiest also it goes beyond money. I can assure you that my wife is none too impressed with the attiude of youngsters here or the bad manners she has encountered. Other than an education and earnings we both feel the UK is not a good place to live for long.

Money is only the means not the end. Life is more than that.

Sohp we married in Thailand years ago and my daughter is eleven. The rest of your curiosity will have to remain just that.

Thanks to marshbags, sua yai, heng its the kind of replies I was hoping for as were the other various posters. I'll do what i feel is right for me anyway.

keep the posts coming but don't feel i'm depressed or need advice i'm just curious what others would consider/do

[KhunPadThai]

keep the posts coming but don't feel i'm depressed or need advice i'm just curious what others would consider/do

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Englishoak,

Your plan to live in Thailand has these weaknesses:

1. exchange rates are volatile and can move against you in a big way.

2. you make no allowance for inflation which, over a long span, can destroy your nest egg. Thailand's rate of inflation recently hit 5.6%. What will it be in the future? Who knows?

3. you don't have enough to cover unforseen emergencies and you would lack the means to provide for them from what you can earn in Thailand.

It seems much too risky to me. Thailand is a good place to spend money, not earn it.

[billyboy]

For Gods Sake,WAKE UP TO YOURSELF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You still want to live that fun life,going out like a 18yo,mate you got responsibilities get used to it and go out to work like everyone else and stop being a bludger.Another 5 years working wont kill you.If you can save at least 2 million baht for the 5 years work,you have it.Work to buy a house in thailand,then a business,once you got that your bloody well right.Dont be so inpatient,i thought lopburis comments were ok,you didnt because you only want to hear what you want to hear.Mate your a dreamer.Wake up to yourself and go out and get a flamin job and save the money like all the rest of us are doing or you will find yourself with thee arse out of your trousers if you move over so quick again.

But anyway its up to you,you asked for advice you got it.

[bendix]

I think there's a middle ground that people are ignoring, and I'm alert to it because I find myself facing the same kind of questions.

I'm 41. Have been living in Thailand for a year and working in an expat corporate environment. But I'm thinking there has to be more to life than this, so I'm really starting to think about my options.

I have a house (full equity) in New Zealand that is worth around 9,000,000 baht. I have cash savings of nearly 11m baht. I also have money stuck away in a series of unit trusts for the future. I'm able to save about 180-200k a month here in Bkk.

No family commitments. No kids. I'm in a relationship here, so don't spend my nights in bars looking for cheap and instant gratification.

My plans are to continue saving at current rate for the next 18 months or so, and then effectively give it up. I don't mean retire; I'm talking about semi-retiring.

I'd like to take six months out, and do nothing - just relax.

Then I plan to buy a small house in Chiang Mai. I could - I know - live on the interest for as long as I like, but I would treat that as a security blanket. I know I would be bored after six months of doing nothing; that will be when I look for the next great adventure. . . . some consulting work to keep me amused a couple days a week. Online work . .easy to do in my field. Maybe a small hobby business of some kind, so you dont go crazy with inactivity. All the time I would use my savings as the soft-landing, and then find enough to do to keep myself amused and have expenses covered going forward.

That's my middle ground.

No doubt I'm missing something obvious, but it's working for me at the moment.

[bendix]

For Gods Sake,WAKE UP TO YOURSELF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You still want to live that fun life,going out like a 18yo,mate you got responsibilities get used to it and go out to work like everyone else and stop being a bludger.Another 5 years working wont kill you.If you can save at least 2 million baht for the 5 years work,you have it.Work to buy a house in thailand,then a business,once you got that your bloody well right.Dont be so inpatient,i thought lopburis comments were ok,you didnt because you only want to hear what you want to hear.Mate your a dreamer.Wake up to yourself and go out and get a flamin job and save the money like all the rest of us are doing or you will find yourself with thee arse out of your trousers if you move over so quick again.

But anyway its up to you,you asked for advice you got it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why the aggression, billyboy. You say save another 10m to buy a house and business, but the OP can already do that right now. He could easily head here and buy a house for a couple of million, invest in a business (if he wanted) or find another source of income.

He already has a Thai wife and child.

And, from the sound of it, he's worked hard to generate some capital already (with the promise of more to come in five and ten years time).

I'd say he's in a pretty good situation. Combine that with the fact that he is only 41 so could easily find new opportunities for earning income here, so what's the problem?

I suspect those who are being so critical of his plans are motivated by jealousy.

[opothai]

you're still young

give it a go, i've heard many a person say if only i had done that earlier by then it's to late.

being young enough you can always come back.

thier is one of my friends in los he lives thier but come back to england for periods of 6 months or so to top up his money if needed.

he is never bored and has a good lifestyle.

but in the end as the y say in thailand up to you.

[lopburi3]

You have a wife and child to support and acting like a spoiled teenager (or more likely someone in a mid life crisis). My advise stands but it seems you do not want any advise that may not support your view of yourself.

I'll do what i feel is right for me anyway.

[Noel]

I'll do what i feel is right for me anyway.

keep the posts coming but don't feel i'm depressed or need advice i'm just curious what others would consider/do

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems more likely you were looking for reassurance.

I wonder how many posters in a similar situation to you with your options agreed that you should sell up.

Anyone?

[stevehaigh]

its surprising how fast guys who locate to LOS get thru their money ,house,cars,bikes,family to take care of, entertainment,visits back home .

and from hearing other guys who as they age they kinda get the longings to go back home . some guys as they age do fall out of love with LOS.

elderly gents dont appear to be able to handle the heat .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

actually, i do wonder what i would do if i ever ran out of money. the way i calculate it, i'm ok unless my mutual funds take a big nose dive, but it is a worry.

as far as old geezas and heat, have you ever been to florida? it's all 20 year old blond hotties and old farts. florida is the only place i have ever seen that has to post MINIMUM speed limits because the old f**ks can't keep the peddle to the metal

[cclub75]

I would like to tell you : GO.

-The currrency issue that some have raised is not really a problem : easy to split the money on different accounts : GBP, EUR, THB and... and chinese yuan maybe ? ;-)

I mean : there are tools to reduce this liability.

I would agree also with the idea to rent it out : it's definitly possible to find a good property manager (even If you had a bad experience before).

-You are young, so easier to "start" something.

-you like the country.

etc.

But .... your daugther. Don't you think that a british education would ne more... proper than a thai one ? Or do you look forward to offer her an internation school in BKK ?

[Felix Lynn]

My biggest concern would be for my children's education. Getting a western education would go far for a young Thai national. Five years in a British school would give a youngster very competitive skills, not to mention a bloody attractive accent! I love hearing Asians speaking with an English accent.

[ben01]

For Gods Sake,WAKE UP TO YOURSELF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You still want to live that fun life,going out like a 18yo,mate you got responsibilities get used to it and go out to work like everyone else and stop being a bludger.Another 5 years working wont kill you.If you can save at least 2 million baht for the 5 years work,you have it.Work to buy a house in thailand,then a business,once you got that your bloody well right.Dont be so inpatient,i thought lopburis comments were ok,you didnt because you only want to hear what you want to hear.Mate your a dreamer.Wake up to yourself and go out and get a flamin job and save the money like all the rest of us are doing or you will find yourself with thee arse out of your trousers if you move over so quick again.

But anyway its up to you,you asked for advice you got it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why was it when i read this post I felt the need to see where the person writing it came from...??? and what did I see............................ typical

[OZONE]

Whats with all the sarcasm? The OP has a legitimate question posting to everyone but a few of you want to respond negatively?. Now thats seem kind of silly to me!

IMO, I would stay in England until your child finished her education before moving to LOS. It could be a major aid for her future. However, I would plan on purchasing a house (if not done so) while its still relative decent in price, and start preapring yourself for the big move. 5 years is not far really! Just think how fast X-Mas came this year...seems like I just got done paying for last year presents

[englishoak]

Why the aggression, billyboy. You say save another 10m to buy a house and business, but the OP can already do that right now. He could easily head here and buy a house for a couple of million, invest in a business (if he wanted) or find another source of income.

He already has a Thai wife and child.

And, from the sound of it, he's worked hard to generate some capital already (with the promise of more to come in five and ten years time).

I'd say he's in a pretty good situation. Combine that with the fact that he is only 41 so could easily find new opportunities for earning income here, so what's the problem?

I suspect those who are being so critical of his plans are motivated by jealousy.

Quite so bendix. I worked from 16 to 34 extremely hard to fund my dream. At 34 as plannned I put the dream into practice.I decided early in life to work in my youth in order to have that time later in life.That has been by hard graft, my choice no regrets. I don't judge others choices. Each to threir own.

My biggest concern would be for my children's education. Getting a western education would go far for a young Thai national. Five years in a British school would give a youngster very competitive skills, not to mention a bloody attractive accent! I love hearing Asians speaking with an English accent

It's the main reason I am having such a hard time deciding. Having been back for a while I wonder about the way the younger people act. If you have been gone from the uk for a few years you can see the change. It's not anything I can describe other than aggressive & lack self respect, i'd hate for that to rub off in any way on my daughter. I'm just wheighing up the pro's & cons.

I use this site as a sounding board. And I enjoy the comments and some are thoughtful and intelligent., so thanks to those. The other judgemental kind and not so smart are what most people are like. They are biased and have no concept of there being any other standard or way but their own. Lopburi3 you are very much the latter.

I'm enjoying thet posts