Running A Bar On Samui

[jamesbrock]

Lol at the surname! He must have loads of dosh if he's flying into USM!

Edit: BTW, I meant 'you do have a point there' in my previous post.

Edited April 8, 2012 by jamesbrock

[insertmembernamehere]

In the particular case of Lamai, you have a situation where you've got a bunch of Thais who are mostly related to each other who own the entire town. They don't need to work, they are filthy rich by Thai standards thanks to their once worthless coconut plantation suddenly becoming a desirable beach resort. The families who own the beachfront property inherited it from their parents, and they got the beachfront stuff because it was no good for growing coconuts. None of them have ever worked a day in their life and they have no need for money, all they care about is face, and about the worst way to lose face in Thailand is to accede to the demands of a Farang.

Translate this into Thai and put it on a T-shirt!

It is the probably the one post all prospective buyers ought to read.

[itishothere]

In the particular case of Lamai, you have a situation where you've got a bunch of Thais who are mostly related to each other who own the entire town. They don't need to work, they are filthy rich by Thai standards thanks to their once worthless coconut plantation suddenly becoming a desirable beach resort. The families who own the beachfront property inherited it from their parents, and they got the beachfront stuff because it was no good for growing coconuts. None of them have ever worked a day in their life and they have no need for money, all they care about is face, and about the worst way to lose face in Thailand is to accede to the demands of a Farang.

Translate this into Thai and put it on a T-shirt!

It is the probably the one post all prospective buyers ought to read.

Bl##dy big T-shirt. Ideal for target practise I suppose.

[PoorSucker]

Renting a property is much different, it is a perishable good. If I cannot find a renter for my property for this week, that money just disappears. It's not like I can ever recoup the loss I made by not renting it.

Nonsense, on Samui you just demand a higher price to recoup your loss.

Samui business 101.

[Benbg555]

Alright guys, I'm new to this forum and this has been the first thread that i have read through, with interest. I am planning on relocating to Samui within the next 3-4 years, I currently work offshore earning good cash and I hope to have saved enough to move there soon. I am still young so I dont want to retire yet. Taking into consideration that a normal job in thailand (ie working for someone) would be a waste of time financially and also not allowed. Starting a business would be the only viable option to keep me busy and earn enough so I dont drastically eat into my savings too much.....

However readng through this thread and other threads on similar thailand networking forums, people seem to be extremely negative about starting any kind of business in thailand!! I was interested to get some peoples opinions as to why this is? Is this because the guys who are successful business owners dont wish to post in forums like this and share their secrets success (understandably), so we are therefore left with the pesimistic views of people who have tried and failed? (No offence meant here, just thinking out loud).

Having spent alot of time in thailand, there seems to be a very large ex-pat community that live full time in thailand, although I haven't delved too much into their lifestyle, alot of these guys or girls will be earning money in thailand....So it is possible. Ok some of them will be living off savings, but alot wont be. The question I really wanted to know is how do the majority of ex-pats make money in thailand if all businessess, whether it be bars or restaurants or whatever are doomed to fail? It cant be all that bad can it guys, otherwise people wouldn't be successfully living there? I understand that running a business in a foreign semi corrupt culture can be challenging, but is it really all doom and gloom? How are ex-pats making money in thailand???

Thanks for reading and I look forward to you replies.

[bradleythebuyer]

I am sure there are a bunch of people here who can give you very good information, the expats seem to be very knowledgeable on this forum. Any good answer though would depend on exactly how young you are, how much assets you have to your name, your consumption habits and your outlook on life.

From the information I gathered (i have similar dreams as you do), if you don't have any connections and <50k assets, the best you can realistically hope for is the hand to mouth existance outlined here for a long while. Online poker players who have bankroll management skills tend to do very well in Thailand, same goes for other online entrepeneurs and those that diversify their income stream, relying mostly on pension, dividends, interest, annuities, etc..

[itishothere]

Let's ignore for the moment the rules regarding employment and business ownership etc.

There is plenty of economic activity on the island. But it falls into 2 groups. Thai, and foreign.

If you want to work in a bar, or be a plumber, or a diving instructor, or have a partner and run a pig farm or a small shop, then you are going to have to be content to earn the Thai wage. Let's say that is an average of THB 15,000 a month. There seem to be many people happy to do that. But that is usually not enough for the average foreigner who not only has to spend more because he is foreign, but needs more in terms of comforts etc.

To achieve a decent level of income (by your standards) you are going to have to take ownership of something that does not rely on the Thais spending money with you. You are going to have to become a foreign worker, and obviously your customers are going to be foreign - tourists or expat - because they are the only ones with sufficient money to support you. For this you need to run a hotel, a bar, a restaurant etc etc. This takes capital. Usually a lot of capital. And because of the land ownership rules and limitations on types of businesses you can run etc, it involves a lot of risk. You are never really the owner and in complete control of your destiny.

There is also the group of foreigners bringing a specific skill to the island. (And the list of skills permitted by law is restrictive.) They command higher salaries, although not always by huge amounts. Teachers, GMs, property management, designers, are examples. They live comfortably, but probably not to the standards they would expect back home.

So yes, it is possible to work here. In my view you are either employed by a foreign company because you have a particular skill he wants, and pays you accordingly.

Or you run the thing yourself. This can be done. But you need to have a good business sense, have a flexible plan for when the demographics change, or the rent triples and a good product. A generic bar selling Chang at THB 80 is not, in my view, a good product.

[smokie36]

Excellent post. Almost choked on my cornflakes over the first line!

[itishothere]

Excellent post. Almost choked on my cornflakes over the first line!

Use a smaller spoon.

[Tropicalevo]

Hi Benbg -

Unfortunately, not many people write in and say

"I had a great day today in Paradise. I made some money and also had some fun doing it!"

(However, most days here are like that for me. )

Come on down and enjoy.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Tropicalevo

[insertmembernamehere]

I think there are a great many people who come to Thailand for a few months then go back to their home country to work and save money to do it again the following year. If you work on oil rigs, you might just think about finding work offshore here. It is out there.

Starting a business would be the only viable option to keep me busy and earn enough so I don't drastically eat into my savings too much.....

Online poker players who have bankroll management skills tend to do very well in Thailand, same goes for other online entrepeneurs and those that diversify their income stream, relying mostly on pension, dividends, interest, annuities, etc..

Actually, I know a variety of people who sustain themselves via the Internet. One I know has a small resort/hotel booking site, another who makes money (on the legal sly) by telling your fortune at a popular resort and spa also engages in online gambling. Yet another does something online that I have yet to figure out what but he has a lot of very expensive Mac gear.

Does the OP have business experience or education? Business is not applied mathematics, but...

How to fly a plane in two easy lessons

Lesson one: Buy a plane

Lesson two: Fly it.

I think too many people come here thinking that running a business is easy and that anyone can do it without any training or experience. They forget there are entire programs in universities for business management as well as MBA programs. There are in fact entire schools devoted solely to business. There seems to be some common notion that somehow business does not require any knowledge beyond common sense.

The number of people who buy (lease) a location that had four failed businesses before it (or more) only set up the exact same kind of business is nothing short of insanity.

[PattayaPhom]

It may not be exciting but cheap Thai rooms or a restaurant selling cheap Thai food always gives a good return on your initial investment. Target the domestic market rather than the tourist market.....

[ydraw]

If you are working offshore, the best way to live in Thailand is to continue to work offshore. There are a great many people living in Thailand who work in the Persian Gulf, on month-on/month-off (or longer) swings.

This is by far the best way to do it since:

1.) You don't have to worry about visas, since you are leaving the country every month anyway.

2.) You don't pay any tax to anyone (unless you're American), because you're a resident of Thailand who earns money in the UAE.

3.) The money is far better than you could earn doing anything else in Thailand.

4.) Your cost of living is basically nothing compared to it was back at home while doing the same job.

5.) You can enjoy your time in Thailand on your months off because you don't have to worry about running a business.

6.) Your company will be just as happy to fly you out of Bangkok as they were flying you out of wherever it was you were before.

Edited April 9, 2012 by ydraw

[itsala]

I came to Thailand 12 years ago, at 26 years old and full of dreams of paradise, women and easy living. (not in that order!)

I had about 3000 pounds. I blew that in about 3 months on the good life and then woke up.

For the next couple of years I was lucky enough to swing some contract work off shore (cruise ships) and then invested in a bar. That was the glory era in southern Phuket, where rules were lax, competition was naive and Thais welcomed you as a novelty plaything.

The next 4 years were awesome, customers a plenty, rules still lax and my experience in F+B and pub management came to the fore. Before I knew it I had a guest house, 4 bars and a small after hours night spot.

Then it happened

Bird flu, Bali bomb, Sars, Tsunami, Red Shirts, Yellow Shirts, Airport siege, Coup, and other things-

all in the space of 3 years.

From flying I went to subsistence in quick time. Competition from amateur bar owner dreamers, wannabee Thai inn keeps and increasing pressure from the police, music mafia, pool table mafia and any other mafia all wanting a piece of a decreasing pie. Fortune smiled and a amateur dreamer relieved me of my last bar and got me enough to breathe for a short time.

A chance meeting got me into the hotel sector in Samui, where I am now back in the good times, but employed and slave to the corporate buck. (slave is a bit strong, but you get the idea)

The morale of my experience is really that you have to keep diversifying and using connections and luck to ride the wave. This place is a cruel and unforgiving wench, and just as you believe that you have tamed her, she comes flying back with an unforeseen spanner in the works.

The flip side is that it beats the idea of an M25 commute or a 12 hour shift in a factory, and what does't break you sure makes you appreciate the beaches, the sunset and the glorious freedom that we all have. Just make sure that you have something that will keep food on the table and electric flowing in the house, a bar honestly now, is a long past opportunity, try something new or secure or subsistence is the very best you can hope for.

[insertmembernamehere]

Target the domestic market rather than the tourist market.....

This is also very sound advice. I have an idea for a family-friendly place slightly away from the evil farangs where the locals (and the adventurous Westerners) can enjoy the things they like...'Nuff said......

[itishothere]

The morale of my experience is really that you have to keep diversifying and using connections and luck to ride the wave. This place is a cruel and unforgiving wench, and just as you believe that you have tamed her, she comes flying back with an unforeseen spanner in the works.

The flip side is that it beats the idea of an M25 commute or a 12 hour shift in a factory, and what does't break you sure makes you appreciate the beaches, the sunset and the glorious freedom that we all have.

Wise words.

[BigC]

The morale of my experience is really that you have to keep diversifying and using connections and luck to ride the wave. This place is a cruel and unforgiving wench, and just as you believe that you have tamed her, she comes flying back with an unforeseen spanner in the works.

The flip side is that it beats the idea of an M25 commute or a 12 hour shift in a factory, and what does't break you sure makes you appreciate the beaches, the sunset and the glorious freedom that we all have.

Wise words.

for a good bar u need good girls or bad girls u just need girls. more girls more customers. I know what 1 should call the bar The M25 Bar Road to Hell with the hottest babes in town yeee haaa

[brit1984]

The morale of my experience is really that you have to keep diversifying and using connections and luck to ride the wave. This place is a cruel and unforgiving wench, and just as you believe that you have tamed her, she comes flying back with an unforeseen spanner in the works.

The flip side is that it beats the idea of an M25 commute or a 12 hour shift in a factory, and what does't break you sure makes you appreciate the beaches, the sunset and the glorious freedom that we all have.

Wise words.

for a good bar u need good girls or bad girls u just need girls

or boys for a gay bar

[itishothere]

for a good bar u need good girls or bad girls u just need girls. more girls more customers.

There are more than enough places around like that. And most of them are empty!

How about some place where people can go without Dad having to explain to the kids what that screaming banshee wrapped around a pole is doing? Or where Mom doesn't have to watch wall to wall football? Or where a couple can relax and actually hear themselves talk? Plenty of familes and couples come here and don't go out of the hotel at night because the main streets are just full of tat and sleaze.

[BigC]

for a good bar u need good girls or bad girls u just need girls. more girls more customers.

There are more than enough places around like that. And most of them are empty!

How about some place where people can go without Dad having to explain to the kids what that screaming banshee wrapped around a pole is doing? Or where Mom doesn't have to watch wall to wall football? Or where a couple can relax and actually hear themselves talk? Plenty of familes and couples come here and don't go out of the hotel at night because the main streets are just full of tat and sleaze.

slease doesnot really evend me. i do not know why.

but there is a high demand for real pub style bard but the expenses into settng them up and purely making money offf the drinks and maybe food and a sunday clavery are very high.

maybe someone who has come here with plently of spare money and experience running a pub style bar and can afford to set it up not anttially to make a hiuge profit but do if because the passion of having and old style pub.

In other words please do not spend all your life savings out hear. don't walk into a room that you cannot walk out of.

ther is the Green man in Phuket proper place love it. can even take the misses there and if she is druk enough i can leave her there while i chase the slease and be back before she has recovered consiousnesss

Edited April 10, 2012 by Rooo

[ydraw]

for a good bar u need good girls or bad girls u just need girls. more girls more customers.

There are more than enough places around like that. And most of them are empty!

How about some place where people can go without Dad having to explain to the kids what that screaming banshee wrapped around a pole is doing? Or where Mom doesn't have to watch wall to wall football? Or where a couple can relax and actually hear themselves talk? Plenty of familes and couples come here and don't go out of the hotel at night because the main streets are just full of tat and sleaze.

The reason you don't see many bars tailored to the needs of families with kids is that they don't stay on the island for long, and don't drink much.

[BigC]

Let's ignore for the moment the rules regarding employment and business ownership etc.

There is plenty of economic activity on the island. But it falls into 2 groups. Thai, and foreign.

If you want to work in a bar, or be a plumber, or a diving instructor, or have a partner and run a pig farm or a small shop, then you are going to have to be content to earn the Thai wage. Let's say that is an average of THB 15,000 a month. There seem to be many people happy to do that. But that is usually not enough for the average foreigner who not only has to spend more because he is foreign, but needs more in terms of comforts etc.

To achieve a decent level of income (by your standards) you are going to have to take ownership of something that does not rely on the Thais spending money with you. You are going to have to become a foreign worker, and obviously your customers are going to be foreign - tourists or expat - because they are the only ones with sufficient money to support you. For this you need to run a hotel, a bar, a restaurant etc etc. This takes capital. Usually a lot of capital. And because of the land ownership rules and limitations on types of businesses you can run etc, it involves a lot of risk. You are never really the owner and in complete control of your destiny.

There is also the group of foreigners bringing a specific skill to the island. (And the list of skills permitted by law is restrictive.) They command higher salaries, although not always by huge amounts. Teachers, GMs, property management, designers, are examples. They live comfortably, but probably not to the standards they would expect back home.

So yes, it is possible to work here. In my view you are either employed by a foreign company because you have a particular skill he wants, and pays you accordingly.

Or you run the thing yourself. This can be done. But you need to have a good business sense, have a flexible plan for when the demographics change, or the rent triples and a good product. A generic bar selling Chang at THB 80 is not, in my view, a good product.

the mod should do him self a favour and keep his 50 k. I see so any people try to invest iin a dream like owning a bar but yu shall not see much return on your investment.

With 50 k in thailand you could buy a condo in Bangkok. put it up for rent and sell it when capital gain goes up. worst case synario u cna sell it for what u piad for. it.

u can get quite a nice condo for 50 k english. maybe even 2 small ones.

they are easier to sell in bangers because thai people can buy them becuase they are not too expensive on a morgage and there are allot of working class thai and forang people nin bangers

\who would want to come out hear and luive on a Thai wage.

who would want to bring their skills out here and get a small bit of money compared to back home and work there arse off for less.

samui is a plce to relax not to brake a sweet working hard hoping to make enough to pay the misses and have your next meal

[oldsailor35]

There are many bars in Bangrak, but only one making money, but he has 6 tv screens showing football, 2 of them are big screens. The rest are lucky to get half a dozen customers a night and thats high season.

My advice is stay away !

[Boater]

There are many bars in Bangrak, but only one making money, but he has 6 tv screens showing football, 2 of them are big screens. The rest are lucky to get half a dozen customers a night and thats high season.

My advice is stay away !

dont let the secret out !!!! .....

hope this is deleted , or everybar in Bangrak will have 6 TV Screens, 2 Big Screens, all showing football so they can make money ... maybe name the whole road Soi Premier League after this

[starcandle]

From what I can see in Bangrak there are only 2 bars that appear to do much business, one is a Sports Bar and the other is a girlie Bar, both are Brit owned.

There is a Bar recently opened, the owner spent a lot of money doing the place really nice, but even this is now for sale. sort of tells ya that maybe a bike hire business

is a better way forward, at least if it fails to work, you can get all your money back from the sale of the Bikes.

Edited April 14, 2012 by starcandle

[wasas]

If you can own the building and you do not have to pay rent, you will always make money.

My friend owns his building, he has a bar, works himself and miisis,and just has 2 staff and he says he makes money every month, ok not a lot,but he said he knew that b4 he came to have a business.

He also said if he had to pay rent it would be harder, because the way he sees it is ,if you build up a good business and you come to the end of your lease, then the thai owner, will always raise the rent.

Also many people come to thailand to live the dream, and i would say if it is your dream to run a pub, then go for it.And if you lose your money after a few years, well you can say you gave it a go.

I think its better to fulfill your dream and fail, than wait till your to old to live your dream,and regret not doing it.

[RAZZELL]

From what I can see in Bangrak there are only 2 bars that appear to do much business, one is a Sports Bar and the other is a girlie Bar, both are Brit owned.

There is a Bar recently opened, the owner spent a lot of money doing the place really nice, but even this is now for sale. sort of tells ya that maybe a bike hire business

is a better way forward, at least if it fails to work, you can get all your money back from the sale of the Bikes.

I'd buy some repossessed bikes at auction in Bangkok and rent them out to tourists or rent/sell them to bargirls "on the drip"...

RAZZ

[BigC]

alternative you could work in a bar and make it run but making a bar run is a bit much to ask

personally on a serious note i wish someone would open a proper countryside english style pub like on koh Phangyan and The green man in Phuket.

some nice grass and old style english building with a fresh calaverly every sunday.

waitress under 25 years old with nice short skirts and flirty smiles.

stella artois

and so on.................

[springsteen]

Why don't you just go back to England then?

[insertmembernamehere]

I think it is fascinating (ironic? pathetic?) that the educated Westerner (we like to think, mostly correctly, that we have a better education and understanding of the world than the average local) who comes to Samui (Thailand?) uses their educated and experienced mind to come up with the hackneyed, mundane, uninspired business of opening a bar. Or a massage parlor...or a restaurant. I mean really, that's it? That's the most creative you can get?

If you want to start a business with the aim of making a living, there are hundreds of other enterprises from which to choose from. The lack of creative thinking here on the part of "business-minded foreigner" is truly phenomenal.

There are only a few good reasons to open a bar here:

A.) You have enough money to burn and want to do it as a sort of hobby.

A.1) You have just enough money to open a bar, but only want to do so so you can have the experience and then get out after a year or so, dam_n the loss.

B.) You have a confirmed base of friends who will hang out at your place, thus just keeping you afloat since without the captive audience, you'd be in the red every night.

C.) You can afford to go in very big and can buy out a prime location (of which virtually all are occupied, ipso facto) and are looking at a business model that starts making money after 3 to 5 years. You need to be able to suck up the negative cash flow for some time, and have some way to ensure that the landlord will not intervene and as has been well-documented, raise the cost to you such that you can no longer project any profitability.

People who say, "Oh, it's okay, I just want to make enough to keep me here and live a simple life," are missing the fundamental excitement and satisfaction of being successful. If you build a house, you don't build a shack just suitable for living; if you buy a guitar you don't buy one that won't stay in tune but plays, sort of; if you enter a competition, you don't do it to come in 5th or 10th.

Of course, some are satisfied with "just getting by" and breaking even, but for me, what's the point? If you go into business with this flaccid mindset then you are already a loser.

And by the way, I'd rather try something creative and end up failing than following the sheep herd into Barville and, oops, fail at that. I use the crystal ice idea as a thought question but I'd rather go down on a novel and potentially interesting and profitable idea than crap out on a bar, which basically everyone knows is a very, very low percentage gamble.

And win or lose, later in life you have a much better story than, "I ran a bar for a while in Thailand".....yawn....

Edited April 15, 2012 by insertmembernamehere