Should Uk Expats Pay Nic Class 2 Contributions

[Basil B]

Moved this from another thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/543135-uk-visa-special-circumstances/

As someone who has paid taxes all my life and now self-employed and well aware of people who leave the UK to avoid paying taxes but soon come running back when the need medical care I for one would be happy for the UK government to introduce compulsory NIC class 2 (£2.65PW/£137.80PA) to all UK passport holders who pay no other form of NIC regardless where they are in the world and refuse to renew passports until holders are up to date with payments.

[transam]

Eh.

[lovelaos]

Perhaps you should run for parliament then

[transam]

Perhaps you should run for parliament then

Think he is in Parliament.

[PattayaParent]

I would gladly pay Class 2 NIC at 140 Quid a year but the bastards want Class 3 off me at 600+ Quid a year.

By the way Class 2 / 3 constributions have nothing to do with medical care entitlements.

[h90]

Also people who die to avoid paying taxes but as soon as they feel better running back for medical care

[David48]

Have a read of what the OP actually posted please.

The thread you are reading now came from a discussion within http://www.thaivisa....-circumstances/

Uk Visa - Special Circumstances Diagnosed with cancer, need to return to UK and bring wife.

So what the OP writes should be viewed in light of the discussion there. The mod 7by7 suggested that his post was not Visa related and that maybe he should post and open another thread ...

It's probably worthwile reading the original thread because it discusses (amonst other things) about moving away from the UK for many years, but finding later in life that you need medical treatment under the NHS system.

Edited April 10, 2012 by David48

[GuestHouse]

With respect to the question should UK Expats pay NI Class 2.

The requirement to get a pension that is shortly to rise to £140 per week is 30 years of at least NI Class 2 Payments. The NI Class 2 Payments are as the OP states £137 per year.

So 1 year's worth of NI Class 2 Payments is less than one week of pension.

Many expats will already have paid a full 30 years, many others will not have.

In terms of return on investment a full state pension purchased at Class 2 Payments is probably the best investment you'll ever come across

It is not so much that Expats should pay NI Class 2 Payments, rather they would be very well advised to do so.

(Conspiracy addicts and doom mongers feel free to disagree).

---------------

With regards should NI Class 2 Payments be compulsory or pensions held where Class 2 Payments are not made.

Well there is an argument that were the passport gives the right to return we ought to have the means to return and keep ourselves, so yes perhaps they should be compulsory.

Personally I'd rather see the issuance of passports linked to records of taxes and criminal records - Withholding passports from people who have committed tax/vat fraud might brining is some revenue (or a few returning expats).

I see no good argument that people who have defrauded the state should benefit from a passport issued by the state and the freedoms that that passport offers.

Edited April 10, 2012 by GuestHouse

[steve187]

to be able to pay class 2 contributions, you must have lived and paid 'stamps' in the uk for three years.

Edited April 10, 2012 by steve187

[Captain Chaos]

I have no objection in principle, it's not a huge amount of money to me, but I am concerned that the "NHS" won't actually be there by the time I reach advanced years and might need it. The UK simply can't afford it and, in my opinion, a move to some form of public health care to which the individual must contribute is inevitable. So why pay the NICs now?

Note: I have to declare that I am a Singapore PR so I am already familiar with a kind of "public-private" healthcare scheme via my Singapore CPF contributions.

[bendix]

I would gladly pay Class 2 NIC at 140 Quid a year but the bastards want Class 3 off me at 600+ Quid a year.

By the way Class 2 / 3 constributions have nothing to do with medical care entitlements.

I've always paid Class 2 contributions. I'm not sure why you're being asked to pay so much.

[PattayaParent]

I have no objection in principle, it's not a huge amount of money to me, but I am concerned that the "NHS" won't actually be there by the time I reach advanced years and might need it. The UK simply can't afford it and, in my opinion, a move to some form of public health care to which the individual must contribute is inevitable. So why pay the NICs now?

Note: I have to declare that I am a Singapore PR so I am already familiar with a kind of "public-private" healthcare scheme via my Singapore CPF contributions.

Because NIC has nothing to do with the NHS.

[PattayaParent]

I would gladly pay Class 2 NIC at 140 Quid a year but the bastards want Class 3 off me at 600+ Quid a year.

By the way Class 2 / 3 constributions have nothing to do with medical care entitlements.

I've always paid Class 2 contributions. I'm not sure why you're being asked to pay so much.

I know, we've had this discussion before.

When I wrote to the pensions people asking for a forecast and what I need to do to get paid up that's what they told me to pay and when I looked at the government website it says that Class 2 is for self employed persons and I'm not self employed.

[thaicbr]

how would one go about finding their national insurance number. and then how to organize payment while living in Thailand?

thanks.

[HeavyDrinker]

Chase down the immigrant scroungers first, then have a pop at the honest working man...

Some people make my mind boggle....

Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance BasilB?

Edited April 11, 2012 by HeavyDrinker

[chiang mai]

I also will be keen to understand how to make Class 2 NIC payments, I'm three years short of my 30 and seems like a good investment, if anyone knows?

[evadgib]

Some years ago (2005-ish) HMRC advised me to pay NI at the lower rate in order to secure full pension in later life. They later advised me to stop paying altogether when I had reached 30 years (the maximum required for my generation at that time).

HTH

Edit: My understanding was that HMRC advise expats to pay the self employed rate even if they're employed. I had previously been paying at the voluntary rate.

Edited April 11, 2012 by evadgib

[GuestHouse]

Detais from UK Gov here [http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf]

[PattayaParent]

Some years ago (2005-ish) HMRC advised me to pay NI at the lower rate in order to secure full pension in later life. They later advised me to stop paying altogether when I had reached 30 years (the maximum required for my generation at that time).

HTH

Edit: My understanding was that HMRC advise expats to pay the self employed rate even if they're employed. I had previously been paying at the voluntary rate.

In my case I hadn't been paying any previously and they advise me to pay Class 3.

Maybe because as Steve187 siad I hadn't lived and paid stamp in the UK for 3 years.

Edit: except for concessionary contributions while at school, university and unemployed.

Edited April 11, 2012 by PattayaParent

[tomallison]

I would gladly pay Class 2 NIC at 140 Quid a year but the bastards want Class 3 off me at 600+ Quid a year.

By the way Class 2 / 3 constributions have nothing to do with medical care entitlements.

I've always paid Class 2 contributions. I'm not sure why you're being asked to pay so much.

I was paying Class 2 contributions for many years. However, after retirement I was told that I had to continue to make contributions in order to qualify for pension, but at the Class 3 rate.

[PattayaParent]

Detais from UK Gov here ["]http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf]

you got the last ] in the link and it won't open

should be "]http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf

[chiang mai]

Detais from UK Gov here ["]http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf]

Thanks GH

[steve187]

for class 2 contribution while abroad try this link - http://www.hmrc.gov....ontr/abroad.htm

some extracts here -

• you must have lived in the UK for a continuous three-year period at any time before making your payments
  
• before you went abroad, you paid National Insurance contributions for three years or more
  

Edited April 11, 2012 by steve187

[billd766]

how would one go about finding their national insurance number. and then how to organize payment while living in Thailand?

thanks.

Try this link.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/yourquestions/index.htm#nic

[billd766]

I also will be keen to understand how to make Class 2 NIC payments, I'm three years short of my 30 and seems like a good investment, if anyone knows?

Try this link

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/index.htm

[Bangkokhatter]

When I first came here 3 years ago they advised me to pay Class 3 ( voluntarily ) and as at that point I had 25 qualifying years I had to pay another 5 to reach the cut-off point of 30 yrs to qualify for full pension.

The first year I paid nothing , then last year got a letter advising me again, with a form requesting I pay about 140 quid, which is the Class 2 rate.

When i made enquiries I was told the first information was incorrect and as a resident overseas you can voluntarily pay NIC at class 2, for up 30 yrs.

As someone else pointed out, nothing to do with NHS, and if you believe there will be a pension when its your time , then at that price is pretty good value.

[7by7]

This thread is wandering into paying voluntary contributions to top up one's state pension; which is not Basil's point. There is already a pinned thread on UK pensions if one wants advice in that score please post there.

What Basil is suggesting is implementing some way of expats making regular contributions so that should they return to the UK they would immediately be entitled to free NHS treatment. Currently they can only receive such treatment if they can show that they have returned to resume UK residence.

Please restrict posts to that subject.

[Nignoy]

What a load of cobblers!! Some Uk expats living in australia pay up to 49%tax on their UK and european pensions, why should they pay anymore tax if they are daft enough to return to UK

[7by7]

According to this HMRC table to be paying UK tax at that rate (actually 50%) they must have an income in excess of £150,000 per year!

There are ways of reducing the amount of UK tax they pay, perhaps they should change their accountant.

None of which is relevant to this topic, which is asking if UK expats should be able to make some form of contribution, either via the NIC system or otherwise, so that they can return to the UK for NHS treatment whenever they wish. Something they cannot automatically do under the present rules.

[MAJIC]

What a load of cobblers!! Some Uk expats living in australia pay up to 49%tax on their UK and european pensions, why should they pay anymore tax if they are daft enough to return to UK

Any evidence to support the above statement???