Why The Big Forum Obsession With Thai-Chinese Tail?

[Zatoichi]

Ok coming from a expat who's married to a Thai-Chinese woman from a decent family;

What I can't understand is some westerners obsession with other westerners who are with Thai Chinese women who come from a decent back ground. They always come off sounding like spiteful crabs, jealous and mocking. Almost as if to say, "I rescued some splay toed Essan hooker from the bar and a broken family, why didn't you?!?"

Guys, really, stop riding us, we don't care who you marry here, why do you care about us?

I think you are all missing the point. The OP asked why you told people about it not why Thai Chinese women are so much better than Thai women. The answer of course is, that the men who care what other people think of their wife or wives are very insecure. The same genre as the illiterate kids on here who find it offensive that old men have beautiful women. Insecurity. Unless you are making a point about Thai Chinese women being less expensive than Thai women to keep. I can see that. Or being good cooks. But why would you mention her ethnic background. Or to insult someone mention her toes? One of the above posters said something about splayed toes. Now that is weird. My wife is a good cook and has a tight *****. Now those are qualities that would endear a women to most men. Or my wife does not nag me. Or my wife smells good. Who cares where she is from or what shade of brown she is? More importantly why would you think I/we care?

I am guilty a bit of what you mention, although I did it to illustrate a point about many (not all) people.

I agree with some of what you said, but I don't think you can pin it all on some insecurity. Some of us just live by different standards and motivations, that's all. I'd be prouder to own a Lamborghini than to own a Honda City. I'd be prouder of a woman who owns a successful national business than one who works in a massage parlor. I'd be more interested and proud of a women who forsakes cooking for me (which would be a selfish want of mine) to attain higher levels of learning and career success. I'm more interested in a women who has ambition and class. I'll likely fair better in my own success being tied to a woman (and she to me) if our families are of some importance within the society we've chosen to live in. Like that. Some guys are happy with a tight a** and someone cooking for them, and that is perfectly respectable. But, some guys are onto higher order things in the world which is also perfectly respectable. But, if you ask our side to argue against your side, these are the kinds of arguments we'll make.

Just differing values. Not sure what the other poster (the one you were addressing) thinks, but that's how I see it. It's like, ... do what you want to for your own happiness, and I'll respect your choices and any decent human being would, but I'll draw a line if you start trying to compare your bargirl to my wife. NOT YOU KERRYK!

NOT all people are created equally, and, even if they are, they dam_n sure don't stay that way.

xthAi76s - On point, really thats all it's about. I looked for qualities in my wife that perhaps other people don't when they marry girls here. Family, monetary back ground, education, and her life style, were all very important things on my list, as was time, (engaged for 2 years, took time to get to know the folks and for them to know me, and MY folks, I brought my family out too meet them first as well). And while I didn't purposely go looking for a Thai-Chinese woman, it just turns out, that the Baddest Looking girl that fit the bill just happened to be Thai-Chinese and she stole my heart from the first second I laid eyes on her in person.

I don't care what the next man dose when it comes to finding women. If all you want is a cook with a tight A** then hooray for you, go for it. Personally, I have staff to cook for us so my wife can concentrate on keepin that tight A** pretty and fit. But hey that's me, All I'm saying is, that I'm sick of these guys who think that everyone else who says that they didn't follow the same route as they did, MUST be lieing or full of S***.

Really???

Were are all these guys they lament about? I don't ever see anyone making forums talking about "My wife is Thai Chineese and she's better than all you lo-so essan bar girl spouces" But yet I see tons of guys complaining about men talking about their Thai-Chieense wives. It looks like they are just petty hating crabs, mad at the world because they settled for something that took less work to aquire and don't wanna see you shine.

Apples & Oranges man, ain't there room enough in the bowl for us all? Stop Hatin

Edited April 17, 2012 by Zatoichi

[mjj]

I didnt go looking for anything, but I am now married to a Thai. When I met her we got on, we had the same humour and connected if you like. She as little education and her family are what you might call poor. They can sustain there lives with their rubber trees and are happy.

At no point in our relationship did I feel the need to compare education or wealth. I really dont see why that is necessary. Just because my wife left school at 12 does that make her stupid? Or did she leave because the family had no money to sustain her education?

Since we have been married she lived in the Uk with me for 6 years and has a british passport (try doing the test online, its free and I bet you a Chang ALL of you will fail at least one in five attempts) which she passed 3 weeks after have a baby on her first attempt.

My point is education does not really reflect intelligence, intelligence is the ability to think, most exams, especially in Thailand and just memory tests AND from my time in the education system are paid for or someone else is paid to do the work.

For me chosing a life partner was just about finding someone I can grow old with and want to be with. Tight buns may be important to some of you, but we all get old and ugly and old and ugly is fine if you love that person.

[msg362]

Wow, I"ve not read it all but I got hammered recently for saying Farangs in CM at Songkran seemed to behave worse than Thais, called a F+++ing racist etc. Not sure what to make of this thread

[jinjinswing]

My Thai Gf is not half Chinese or white or dark but honey colored, but she is educated and holds a responsible job, here mum did alright im told sent her daughter to uni and retired at 50 thanks to a successful adult video store she use to own and run.

The point is for guys like me and a lot of others is if were going to get involved with a Thai girl she should be able to look after herself, in other words she dont really need a farang for a better life....she already has it.

Also i like a woman with a bit of style, good grooming and dress sense, your not going to find them in a bar, often there social back ground and the way they dress and groom are often tied in, for the guys who JUST cant see it/that...fine many of us do and thats also our preference, im not ashamed to say this, either here or back home i always have gone for a similar type and im not going to ever change because i cant...its what attracts me.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Yes, but, and for some of us who are forced into caring about this type of thing. It's one thing to know that this ridiculous superficiality is not in and of itself important, but it's another thing to know that image is indeed an important part of the game -- esp in these 3rd world countries where people are far more likely to judge a person at FACE value at least initially (and then even throughout much of a relationship). Indeed, many here in Thailand and similar as of yet developed countries know not how to judge to 'properly' judge a person (at least not in a way many of us Westerners would consider proper).

These things are as important here as they were in Europe and America a hundred - a couple hundred years ago. Sucks, but it's true. Who I marry can open/close doors for me here -- despite my own family history and background/accomplishments.

That's actually very quaint, kind of turning the tables on the old gold-digging accusation. How to select your spouse based on how her economic status and family connections can help my career.

I don't suppose you're Asian are you?

And before you get defensive, I'm not saying at all there's anything wrong with it, just funny to see when so many guys get on their high horse about women making their partnering decisions based on the same kind of material considerations.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Wow, I"ve not read it all but I got hammered recently for saying Farangs in CM at Songkran seemed to behave worse than Thais, called a F+++ing racist etc. Not sure what to make of this thread

Absolutely agree, the younger, short-stay "traveller" farangs in the rowdier tourist areas (Pattaya, Khao San, Silom/Suk and CM) are definitely over the top in escalating the violence.

I used to fantasize about hiring a fire truck - probably wouldn't cost that much - and using full-on pressure firehoses to wash them right into the klong (evil laugh BWAHAHAHAHA)

[lovelaos]

I've had a foot fetish since I was a teenager. It hid its ugly head for a while in my late twenties when I was married to my Farang wife.

By my early thirties I was divorced and on my travels around the world, my fetish raised its ugly head again. When I arrived in Thailand it became an obssesion that hasn't faltered to this day.

Isaan women's webbed feet are the best feet in the world. Believe me I know.

Chinese-Thai womens feet are horrible

[xthAi76s]

Yes, but, and for some of us who are forced into caring about this type of thing. It's one thing to know that this ridiculous superficiality is not in and of itself important, but it's another thing to know that image is indeed an important part of the game -- esp in these 3rd world countries where people are far more likely to judge a person at FACE value at least initially (and then even throughout much of a relationship). Indeed, many here in Thailand and similar as of yet developed countries know not how to judge to 'properly' judge a person (at least not in a way many of us Westerners would consider proper).

These things are as important here as they were in Europe and America a hundred - a couple hundred years ago. Sucks, but it's true. Who I marry can open/close doors for me here -- despite my own family history and background/accomplishments.

That's actually very quaint, kind of turning the tables on the old gold-digging accusation. How to select your spouse based on how her economic status and family connections can help my career.

I don't suppose you're Asian are you?

And before you get defensive, I'm not saying at all there's anything wrong with it, just funny to see when so many guys get on their high horse about women making their partnering decisions based on the same kind of material considerations.

I am not one of those guys who thinks anything is wrong with whoring oneself in the name of monetary reward. My life revolves around money. It's all I care about. It comes even before sex. I want to die a rich, unhappy man.

[theblether]

What I find bizarre is why members would boast about it? Is it not reverse gold digging? I would be far more impressed with people standing on their own two feet and creating companies and businesses which are a compliment to their own ability.

Sort of reminds me of the pissing contest of ex-bargirls about who's snagged the best farang. Taking the logic further it does set farangs boasting about Thai-Chinese wives/girlfriends at the same levels as the bargirls, doesn't it ? Not exactly the desired effect, I suppose.

You are totally correct.....this type of boasting is a reflection of how poor in spirit and insecure the man is.........it will be a miserable day in my life when I have to boast about my wifes wealth and background.........I would rather just quietly love her for who she is

[necronx99]

Thai is spicey and for some can be hard to handle in large quantities.

Chinese on the other hand can be too sweet.But on the upside, an hour after you're done you want more!

Perfect mix.

[kerryk]

Were are all these guys they lament about? I don't ever see anyone making forums talking about "My wife is Thai Chineese and she's better than all you lo-so essan bar girl spouces" But yet I see tons of guys complaining about men talking about their Thai-Chieense wives. It looks like they are just petty hating crabs, mad at the world because they settled for something that took less work to aquire and don't wanna see you shine.

Apples & Oranges man, ain't there room enough in the bowl for us all? Stop Hatin

Zatochi said, “I don't ever see anyone making forums talking about "My wife is Thai Chinese and she's better than all you lo-so essan bar girl spouses.” But Zatochi just hasn't been reading the posts. Another poster said, “I'll respect your choices and any decent human being would, but I'll draw a line if you start trying to compare your bar girl to my wife.” Another poster prefaces everything he says about his wife by referring to her as an exotic Thai Chinese.

[xthAi76s]

Were are all these guys they lament about? I don't ever see anyone making forums talking about "My wife is Thai Chineese and she's better than all you lo-so essan bar girl spouces" But yet I see tons of guys complaining about men talking about their Thai-Chieense wives. It looks like they are just petty hating crabs, mad at the world because they settled for something that took less work to aquire and don't wanna see you shine.

Apples & Oranges man, ain't there room enough in the bowl for us all? Stop Hatin

Zatochi said, "I don't ever see anyone making forums talking about "My wife is Thai Chinese and she's better than all you lo-so essan bar girl spouses." But Zatochi just hasn't been reading the posts. Another poster said, "I'll respect your choices and any decent human being would, but I'll draw a line if you start trying to compare your bar girl to my wife." Another poster prefaces everything he says about his wife by referring to her as an exotic Thai Chinese.

To be fair, though, I would never and have never just made such posts without good reason. The forum topic is about this issue, so I gave an opinion. Never started a thread as such and never brought up the subject where it wasn't asked.

[DP25]

Another poster prefaces everything he says about his wife by referring to her as an exotic Thai Chinese.

That guy is just a troll who says that to get a rise out of people

[kerryk]

Were are all these guys they lament about? I don't ever see anyone making forums talking about "My wife is Thai Chineese and she's better than all you lo-so essan bar girl spouces" But yet I see tons of guys complaining about men talking about their Thai-Chieense wives. It looks like they are just petty hating crabs, mad at the world because they settled for something that took less work to aquire and don't wanna see you shine.

Apples & Oranges man, ain't there room enough in the bowl for us all? Stop Hatin

Zatochi said, "I don't ever see anyone making forums talking about "My wife is Thai Chinese and she's better than all you lo-so essan bar girl spouses."  But Zatochi just hasn't been reading the posts.  Another poster said, "I'll respect your choices and any decent human being would, but I'll draw a line if you start trying to compare your bar girl to my wife."  Another poster prefaces everything he says about his wife by referring to her as an exotic Thai Chinese.

To be fair, though, I would never and have never just made such posts without good reason.  The forum topic is about this issue, so I gave an opinion.  Never started a thread as such and never brought up the subject where it wasn't asked.

So?  That is the point of the thread.  Farangs think they can discern racial differences that certainly no biologist or scientist can discern and that these racial differences make for a different woman, family and life experience.  See, you are supposed to be a sophisticated Western guy who is beyond all these Thai and third world Voodoo beliefs about ethnic and racial superiority theories that went out with the Third Reich.  Instead you have bought into a recent Thai myth about Chinese families somehow being prettier, more honest and hi so than normal Thai families.  And the sad part about it is you can actually find Thai pseudo scientific documents to back up this nonsense.  Anyway I was writing to that Zatoachi guy who said men never said their Thai Chinese wives were better than the Issan ladies.  Which of course is not true because men on Thai Visa say that all the time.

[msg362]

Yes, but, and for some of us who are forced into caring about this type of thing. It's one thing to know that this ridiculous superficiality is not in and of itself important, but it's another thing to know that image is indeed an important part of the game -- esp in these 3rd world countries where people are far more likely to judge a person at FACE value at least initially (and then even throughout much of a relationship). Indeed, many here in Thailand and similar as of yet developed countries know not how to judge to 'properly' judge a person (at least not in a way many of us Westerners would consider proper).

These things are as important here as they were in Europe and America a hundred - a couple hundred years ago. Sucks, but it's true. Who I marry can open/close doors for me here -- despite my own family history and background/accomplishments.

That's actually very quaint, kind of turning the tables on the old gold-digging accusation. How to select your spouse based on how her economic status and family connections can help my career.

I don't suppose you're Asian are you?

And before you get defensive, I'm not saying at all there's anything wrong with it, just funny to see when so many guys get on their high horse about women making their partnering decisions based on the same kind of material considerations.

I am not one of those guys who thinks anything is wrong with whoring oneself in the name of monetary reward. My life revolves around money. It's all I care about. It comes even before sex. I want to die a rich, unhappy man.

I've got just the answer!!!!!! Rob a bank, drop the money into the river before you can spend it and then shoot yourself. Would that work ?

( Don't take this seriously it's a pathetic attempt at humour. You can do whatever you like as far as I'm concerned as long as it doesn't affect me too much)

[Gonsalviz]

I married a fair skinned Isan girl from a decent family. And she wasn't a bar girl that I rescued. She had a very good paying job (for Thailand) before I met her. Does that count for anything?

Edited April 18, 2012 by Gonsalviz

[HeavyDrinker]

I married a fair skinned Isan girl from a decent family. And she wasn't a bar girl that I rescued. She had a very good paying job (for Thailand) before I met her. Does that count for anything.

Not really. Only truly sad losers wave their wives around like trophies....

[xthAi76s]

To be fair, though, I would never and have never just made such posts without good reason. The forum topic is about this issue, so I gave an opinion. Never started a thread as such and never brought up the subject where it wasn't asked.

So? That is the point of the thread. Farangs think they can discern racial differences that certainly no biologist or scientist can discern and that these racial differences make for a different woman, family and life experience. See, you are supposed to be a sophisticated Western guy who is beyond all these Thai and third world Voodoo beliefs about ethnic and racial superiority theories that went out with the Third Reich. Instead you have bought into a recent Thai myth about Chinese families somehow being prettier, more honest and hi so than normal Thai families. And the sad part about it is you can actually find Thai pseudo scientific documents to back up this nonsense. Anyway I was writing to that Zatoachi guy who said men never said their Thai Chinese wives were better than the Issan ladies. Which of course is not true because men on Thai Visa say that all the time.

Farangs think they can discern racial differences that certainly no biologist or scientist can discern and that these racial differences make for a different woman, family and life experience.

Of course one cannot be certain, but these stereotypes, often based in some fact, are what have protected us humans and allowed us to evolve. Certainly, if our Neanderthal ancestors had not stereotyped lions and tigers as beasts who 'often' eat people, perhaps we'd not be here today... The truth is that there are many Farangs who marry bar girls or just straight up prostitutes. It's been going on for decades, and it's well documented. And, it's just fine, right? If a man is not breaking any laws or hurting anyone, who am I to judge? But, who in this world has the time or inclination to judge everything they encounter every minute of everyday with absolute objectivity? Those kind of people are probably not very common and not very successful. One simply cannot live this way. It's far more efficient to posses some stereotypes and judge the vast majority of people within this framework but always be open and sensitive to the fact that any person could fall outside of the stereotype.

Me: "Where did you meet your wife?"

Farang 1: "I met her while she was working in Soi Cowboy in between shifts servicing other diseased Farangs and Thais."

Me: "Can she read Thai?"

Farang 1: "Barely."

Me: "Did she finish grade school?"

Farang 1: "No."

Me: "Is she or would she be generally looked down upon by successful and poorer Thais?"

Farang 1: "Yes, probably."

Me: "Is she generally considered to be attractive by her own people's standards?"

Farang 1: "No, not at all. She's generally considered to be 'throw away'."

Me: "Where did you meet your wife?"

Farang 2: "I met her while she was working in Soi Cowboy in between shifts servicing other diseased Farangs and Thais."

Me: "Can she read Thai?"

Farang 2: "Barely."

Me: "Did she finish grade school?"

Farang 2: "No."

Me: "Is she or would she be generally looked down upon by successful and poorer Thais?"

Farang 2: "Yes, probably."

Me: "Is she generally considered to be attractive by her own people's standards?"

Farang 2: "No, not at all. She's generally considered to be 'throw away'."

etc.

At some point it's more efficient for me to just assume that when I see a disgusting-looking, fat, poorly spoken, sloppy, seemingly not very bright, seemingly unaccomplished, poorly dressed Farang who is not interested in learning really anything about Thai culture, who can't speak more than a handful of Thai words and who has no interest for improving, who perhaps used to be a low paid, unskilled worker back in his country or origin

who

is married to a darker skin Thai woman who comes from Issan, and dresses a certain way, and talks a certain way in Thai and in English (whose Thai often wouldn't be highly regarded by even Thais), who is poorly educated, who, for some reason that is beyond me, along with her Farang husband MUST hold hands while walking (although the majority of other kinds of couples don't seem to be required to do this in this godawfully hot place ...

There is a statistically significant chance that they are a certain kind of couple. And, when it turns out that I was right, could I have known simply by looking at them? Of course not. But, this is what we call educated guessing and useful stereotyping. Try living a day without stereotyping and see how far you get. It's a (sad or great -- depending on how you view it) fact of human life and evolution. Many scientists have argued that it was entirely necessary for our survival.

See, you are supposed to be a sophisticated Western guy who is beyond all these Thai and third world Voodoo beliefs about ethnic and racial superiority theories that went out with the Third Reich. Instead you have bought into a recent Thai myth about Chinese families somehow being prettier, more honest and hi so than normal Thai families.

In fact, what is different about people like me and people who are more simple is that I may utilize the stereotypes as a fundamental starting point when a certain set of criteria has been established. However, I am not so rigid that I would allow the initial stereotype to trump further evidences of people being outside of it/different. Also, I did not say that the things I posted were MY beliefs; I said they seemed to be, on average, THAIS beliefs about their own Thai-Chinese populace. Important distinction, I think you would agree.

EDIT:

I'm checking out of following this one. I think we got some good feedback and answers to the OP. To each his/her own. Enjoy the week everyone.

Edited April 18, 2012 by xthAi76s

[BigJohnnyBKK]

So? That is the point of the thread. Farangs think they can discern racial differences that certainly no biologist or scientist can discern and that these racial differences make for a different woman, family and life experience. See, you are supposed to be a sophisticated Western guy who is beyond all these Thai and third world Voodoo beliefs about ethnic and racial superiority theories that went out with the Third Reich. Instead you have bought into a recent Thai myth about Chinese families somehow being prettier, more honest and hi so than normal Thai families. And the sad part about it is you can actually find Thai pseudo scientific documents to back up this nonsense. Anyway I was writing to that Zatoachi guy who said men never said their Thai Chinese wives were better than the Issan ladies. Which of course is not true because men on Thai Visa say that all the time.

I think you're reading too much into it. I haven't seen anyone claiming that they can definitively identify a Thai Chinese just from their appearance. A taller and lighter-skinned Thai could come from any number of ethnic backgrounds, and if you ask them they will tell you - ethnicity isn't defined by science but by society, and Thais will self-identify within their own culturally programmed categories.

It is statistically true that the Chinese tend to be higher-income and wealthier than the other groups, and also that they tend to have lighter skin and be taller. Both of these factors are valued by the Thais, connoting status and beauty. It is true that **some** posters here agree with this, but such personal value judgements - taller and light-skinned = beautiful, wealth = important - IMO have little to do with racism.

The joke here on TV is that some people use that category as shorthand for "my wife isn't a hooker", and of course that is silly. There are of course many Thai-Chinese sex-workers, but it is true they make up a very small fraction of those who work the farang scene. We tend to attract the smaller dark-skinned girls that Thai men wouldn't consider attractive. Speaking personally, my preference runs to this latter type, so that works to my advantage, now that I've learned to screen out the head-cases and single mothers.

I've however *never* heard anyone claim that Thai Chinese are more "honest", and believe even most Thais would find such an idea very funny - just the fact that they tend to be better at business correlates for most people in the other direction.

[HeavyDrinker]

It is statistically true that the Chinese tend to be higher-income and wealthier than the other groups,

Johnny, do you have a source for this?

Personally I think that because there are many high profile Chinese Thais, people get sucked into thinking this, but I know plenty who are certainly nothing like wealthy.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Of course one cannot be certain, but these stereotypes, often based in some fact, are what have protected us humans and allowed us to evolve.

...

It's a (sad or great -- depending on how you view it) fact of human life and evolution. Many scientists have argued that it was entirely necessary for our survival.

I think what you're talking about is more instinct than rationality, and implies that you relate to people as if they are animals. In any case, IMO once such tools, that were once useful, aren't needed any longer, to the degree that they interfere with accurate perception of reality, enlightened people discard them.

One simply cannot live this way. It's far more efficient to posses some stereotypes and judge the vast majority of people within this framework but always be open and sensitive to the fact that any person could fall outside of the stereotype.

One certainly can and I definitely strive to - IMO such "efficiency" isn't worth the barrier to accurate understanding of other people. I prefer to assume the best of everyone - while still protecting my interests of course - until proven otherwise.

In choosing a mate, you prefer to avoid sex workers, uneducated people, unattractive people, fat people, people with poor taste in clothes, unambitious people, working-class people, dark-skinned people, poorly-spoken people, people who display affection in public, God know what else.

That's fine, your call as to who you choose to associate with, most likely most people would be perfectly happy to avoid contact with you as well.

But to judge the value of people by such criteria, calling people names, assuming that the above traits define a "type" that is "higher" or "lower" as human beings is really really sad to me, I do honestly feel sorry for you and hope one day your attitude may change, hopefully without the intervention of some disastrous misfortune in your life.

Also, I did not say that the things I posted were MY beliefs; I said they seemed to be, on average, THAIS beliefs about their own Thai-Chinese populace. Important distinction, I think you would agree.

Yes I agree the distinction is important, but IMO you've made it pretty clear that you buy into such evil fantasies yourself.

[kerryk]

So?  That is the point of the thread.  Farangs think they can discern racial differences that certainly no biologist or scientist can discern and that these racial differences make for a different woman, family and life experience.  See, you are supposed to be a sophisticated Western guy who is beyond all these Thai and third world Voodoo beliefs about ethnic and racial superiority theories that went out with the Third Reich.  Instead you have bought into a recent Thai myth about Chinese families somehow being prettier, more honest and hi so than normal Thai families.  And the sad part about it is you can actually find Thai pseudo scientific documents to back up this nonsense.  Anyway I was writing to that Zatoachi guy who said men never said their Thai Chinese wives were better than the Issan ladies.  Which of course is not true because men on Thai Visa say that all the time.

Farangs think they can discern racial differences that certainly no biologist or scientist can discern and that these racial differences make for a different woman, family and life experience.

Of course one cannot be certain, but these stereotypes, often based in some fact, are what have protected us humans and allowed us to evolve.  Certainly, if our Neanderthal ancestors had not stereotyped lions and tigers as beasts who 'often' eat people, perhaps we'd not be here today...  The truth is that there are many Farangs who marry bar girls or just straight up prostitutes.  It's been going on for decades, and it's well documented.  And, it's just fine, right?  If a man is not breaking any laws or hurting anyone, who am I to judge?  But, who in this world has the time or inclination to judge everything they encounter every minute of everyday with absolute objectivity?  Those kind of people are probably not very common and not very successful.  One simply cannot live this way.  It's far more efficient to posses some stereotypes and judge the vast majority of people within this framework but always be open and sensitive to the fact that any person could fall outside of the stereotype.  

Me: "Where did you meet your wife?"

Farang 1: "I met her while she was working in Soi Cowboy in between shifts servicing other diseased Farangs and Thais."

Me: "Can she read Thai?"

Farang 1: "Barely."

Me: "Did she finish grade school?"

Farang 1: "No."

Me: "Is she or would she be generally looked down upon by successful and poorer Thais?"

Farang 1: "Yes, probably."

Me: "Is she generally considered to be attractive by her own people's standards?"

Farang 1: "No, not at all.  She's generally considered to be 'throw away'."

Me: "Where did you meet your wife?"

Farang 2: "I met her while she was working in Soi Cowboy in between shifts servicing other diseased Farangs and Thais."

Me: "Can she read Thai?"

Farang 2: "Barely."

Me: "Did she finish grade school?"

Farang 2: "No."

Me: "Is she or would she be generally looked down upon by successful and poorer Thais?"

Farang 2: "Yes, probably."

Me: "Is she generally considered to be attractive by her own people's standards?"

Farang 2: "No, not at all.  She's generally considered to be 'throw away'."

etc.

At some point it's more efficient for me to just assume that when I see a disgusting-looking, fat, poorly spoken, sloppy, seemingly not very bright, seemingly unaccomplished, poorly dressed Farang who is not interested in learning really anything about Thai culture, who can't speak more than a handful of Thai words and who has no interest for improving, who perhaps used to be a low paid, unskilled worker back in his country or origin

who

is married to a darker skin Thai woman who comes from Issan, and dresses a certain way, and talks a certain way in Thai and in English (whose Thai often wouldn't be highly regarded by even Thais), who is poorly educated, who, for some reason that is beyond me, along with her Farang husband MUST hold hands while walking (although the majority of other kinds of couples don't seem to be required to do this in this godawfully hot place ...

There is a statistically significant chance that they are a certain kind of couple.  And, when it turns out that I was right, could I have known simply by looking at them?  Of course not.  But, this is what we call educated guessing and useful stereotyping.  Try living a day without stereotyping and see how far you get.  It's a (sad or great -- depending on how you view it) fact of human life and evolution.  Many scientists have argued that it was entirely necessary for our survival.  

See, you are supposed to be a sophisticated Western guy who is beyond all these Thai and third world Voodoo beliefs about ethnic and racial superiority theories that went out with the Third Reich.  Instead you have bought into a recent Thai myth about Chinese families somehow being prettier, more honest and hi so than normal Thai families.

In fact, what is different about people like me and people who are more simple is that I may utilize the stereotypes as a fundamental starting point when a certain set of criteria has been established.  However, I am not so rigid that I would allow the initial stereotype to trump further evidences of people being outside of it/different.  Also, I did not say that the things I posted were MY beliefs; I said they seemed to be, on average, THAIS beliefs about their own Thai-Chinese populace.  Important distinction, I think you would agree.

EDIT:

I'm checking out of following this one.  I think we got some good feedback and answers to the OP.  To each his/her own.  Enjoy the week everyone.

I can understand that.  Not only would I check out I would run away and hide until all the people who read the post had passed away from old age. Talk about nest of vipers! You have hit a new low in insulting people. But on a positive note at least you don't hold hands with women, I was worried about that one.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It is statistically true that the Chinese tend to be higher-income and wealthier than the other groups,

Johnny, do you have a source for this?

Personally I think that because there are many high profile Chinese Thais, people get sucked into thinking this, but I know plenty who are certainly nothing like wealthy.

I could but can't be bothered, to me it's as obvious as stating "whites are wealthier in America".

Here's a starting point - compile a list of the 100 largest companies in Thailand, whether by assets, profits, revenue, whatever. Find out what families control them, in many cases are majority owners. Manufacturing, finance, agriculture/commodity processing sectors are nearly monopolized by a very small number of Thai-Chinese families.

In any given province, go to the land registration office and identify the most valuable land - by assessed value, income production, whatever. See who owns that land.

If you simply talk to the Thais you know that work in larger companies, ask them the ethnicity of the family that owns the company, or if there are many Thai-Chinese in top management positions.

How many of Thailand's past ten PMs have had Chinese ancestry? What about those who exercise power wrt the top family in the country?

Sure there are many of that group that aren't wealthy or powerful, but even if you remove from the data that small number of families that own the majority of Thailand's means of production, as a group I'd be willing to bet the TC will still show as having higher average income and assets.

I've had many conversations with non-Chinese Thais where they themselves express begrudging admiration for the TC, stating that Thais are stupid and lazy in comparison and have ended up as the servants and tenants of their own country.

That is IMO part and parcel of the xenophobic protectionism here, the TC may be colonialist oppressors, but they're "our" colonialist oppressors, we've learned our lesson this time around and won't make the same mistake with this new batch trying to get a foothold here.

Edited April 18, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[kerryk]

It is statistically true that the Chinese tend to be higher-income and wealthier than the other groups,

Johnny, do you have a source for this?

Personally I think that because there are many high profile Chinese Thais, people get sucked into thinking this, but I know plenty who are certainly nothing like wealthy.

I could but can't be bothered, to me it's as obvious as stating "whites are wealthier in America".

Here's a starting point - compile a list of the 100 largest companies in Thailand, whether by assets, profits, revenue, whatever. Find out what families control them, in many cases are majority owners. Manufacturing, finance, agriculture/commodity processing sectors are nearly monopolized by a very small number of Thai-Chinese families.

In any given province, go to the land registration office and identify the most valuable land - by assessed value, income production, whatever. See who owns that land.

If you simply talk to the Thais you know that work in larger companies, ask them the ethnicity of the family that owns the company, or if there are many Thai-Chinese in top management positions.

Sure there are many of that group that aren't wealthy, but even if you remove from the data that small number of families that own the majority of Thailand's means of production, as a group I'd be willing to bet the TC will still show as having higher average income and assets.

I've had many conversations with non-Chinese Thais where they themselves express begrudging admiration for the TC, stating that Thais are stupid and lazy in comparison and have ended up as the servants and tenants of their own country.

That is IMO part and parcel of the xenophobic protectionism here, the TC may be colonialist oppressors, but they're "our" colonialist oppressors, we've learned our lesson this time around and won't make the same mistake with this new batch trying to get a foothold here.

How would I tell by looking at a persons name if they were Thai Chinese?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

How would I tell by looking at a persons name if they were Thai Chinese?

Why would you want to try to determine such a thing by guessing based on external factors? Just ask them and they'll tell you, they are proud of their heritage.

That said, apparently when the elite started handing out last names a hundred years ago, the first in line got the shorter ones, so some say that's an indicator of status. To the extent that immigrants since then would have received names later their names may be longer.

I suspect that even if the above is true it doesn't have anything to do with ethnicity, but again, I'm just guessing.

[somtampet]

I have a thai chinese mia noi and a thia chinese gik,they are great freelancers, masquerading as tourist reps

[somtampet]

These type of guys disrespect issan women,putting them all in the caterary as ho,s,so they have to say they are with a middle class chinese thai,with a good job,one can find these in any night club of Bangkok,pretending they are not freelancers

[somtampet]

I married a fair skinned Isan girl from a decent family. And she wasn't a bar girl that I rescued. She had a very good paying job (for Thailand) before I met her. Does that count for anything?

not realy

[kurnell]

I'll have one of each please, a brown and a white one.

[Razzler1973]

I would have thought it was simply because when people discuss their wives on this forum they may fear that others may perceive that 'they married a bar girl' and they may not want the prevailing notion to be that is what they did if they didn't so they go out of their way to mention 'Chinese-Thai' as a nod to 'my g/f isn't or wasn't a hooker'.

Granted not all darker skinned girls are hookers or want your money and not all fair skinned girls are innocent virgins but I always perceived the mentions of wives origins as letting others know they haven't married a hooker.

I am not married to a Thai but if I was and they weren't a former bar girl I may wonder if everyone thought my wife used to be a bar girl as it seems it's quite common

Nice post.

I suppose managing the perceptions of one's peers - even if you've never met them - is really important for those who measure themselves by life's more superficial benchmarks.

I think it's probably just human nature.

Even if you just post here to kill a bit of time and genuinely don't care what other people think of you there may be something in the back of your mind that people are thinking XYZ. People judge, we all do it. You may not care if people have the wrong impression about how much you earn or things like that but when it comes to getting married and family maybe some don't want to be lumped in with some of the others who have a line of thinking 'everyone is for sales' etc

Whenever subjects about Thai girlfriends come up people make a point of mentioning something that highlights she's not a hooker almost like assuming everyone is talking about hookers is the default setting. To be fair the stuff some people come out with it's not a bad assumption

I am not into the whole hooker thing myself so if I was mentioning a Thai g/f I'd probably also want to make sure people knew I'm not talking about hookers and bar girls. Odd really but I can see why people do it