I'Ve Been Asked To Teach English In The Village School

[goodguy]

I applied the same way, several months ago, the local teacher came round to the house on her motorbike and delivered and picked up the completed forms. Today, I had an interview with the Thai Headmaster/Principal. I discovered, the local area schools all had a big meeting yesterday and stipulated to all the Principals present, the conditions. 1. 50 hours a month. 2. 200 Baht per hour. 3. 4 months duration. 4. 40,000 Baht budget for my name (I was accepted and on the list).

The Thai Principal is a very nice guy and wanted me to start straight away. I was prepared to accept the original offer made at the house of 16 hours a month for 10,000 Baht, but this is no longer the case in Saraburi area, for Native English Teacher Assistants. Part-time would have been OK, but 50 hours at 200 baht an hour? I cannot accept.

As for the Work Permit. They had no idea about it but were prepared to phone the local immigration office about it. I hear that local Department of Labour handles the WP. Is that correct?

If they come up with a better offer, I told him I could be interested.

[Kwasaki]

I applied the same way, several months ago, the local teacher came round to the house on her motorbike and delivered and picked up the completed forms. Today, I had an interview with the Thai Headmaster/Principal. I discovered, the local area schools all had a big meeting yesterday and stipulated to all the Principals present, the conditions. 1. 50 hours a month. 2. 200 Baht per hour. 3. 4 months duration. 4. 40,000 Baht budget for my name (I was accepted and on the list).

The Thai Principal is a very nice guy and wanted me to start straight away. I was prepared to accept the original offer made at the house of 16 hours a month for 10,000 Baht, but this is no longer the case in Saraburi area, for Native English Teacher Assistants. Part-time would have been OK, but 50 hours at 200 baht an hour? I cannot accept.

As for the Work Permit. They had no idea about it but were prepared to phone the local immigration office about it. I hear that local Department of Labour handles the WP. Is that correct?

If they come up with a better offer, I told him I could be interested.

10,000 is poor for 50 hrs.

50 hrs a month get's to me as well because if you works certain days you would be on a five week month so where does the 50 hrs come in on a 4 week month.

Take July if I worked the 3 hrs Tue & Thurs as I agreed, that would be 27 hrs.

If I worked say September it would be 24 hrs.

[CaptainSplod]

Hi goodguy!

Sounds very much like your story will rather unfortunately repeat itself in many areas in the days ahead.

A tripling (more!) of your earlier agreed working hours is just too much - and I'm naturally not surprised that you declined the offer. Your description of the whole thing tends to confirm our own information from a couple of days ago.

Still, I don't suppose it's any fun, either, for the Thai bringer of the bad news (in your case, the school principal) and it must feel rather strange to have to try and defend the decision taken by OBEC to implement the project in this manner. I don't doubt that many of the local schools would have been more than happy enough to have a NES guy for the earlier agreed upon hours.

As far as I'm aware, the schools are not allowed to change the basic "50 hour @ 200 baht" principle, so you probably won't receive a better/different offer.

Naturally, there will be people happy enough to accept the new OBEC working schedule - and it's of course everybody's own choice as to how they choose.

One can only "hope" that enough people will likewise refuse the offer, so that the project ends as a complete wash-out and is forced to be started again, with a more reasonable plan and a better and continuous exchange of information.

It's just too ridiculous to leave both schools and applicants completely in the dark for so long!

I'm not competent enough to answer your WP question (though I suspect it is the local Department of Labour). Maybe another poster can help you more with this.

Cheers

Splod

[CaptainSplod]

@ Kwasaki

If you look at the sample timetable in post # 236, there is room for both Date and Time, so there is a possibility that you would be provided with a slightly different timetable for each month, to cover the exact 50 hours, This is, after all, presumably only a 4-month project, at maximum (now only 3 months, actually, if I'm not mistaken!).

Cheers

Splod

[Kwasaki]

Hi goodguy!

Sounds very much like your story will rather unfortunately repeat itself in many areas in the days ahead.

A tripling (more!) of your earlier agreed working hours is just too much - and I'm naturally not surprised that you declined the offer. Your description of the whole thing tends to confirm our own information from a couple of days ago.

Still, I don't suppose it's any fun, either, for the Thai bringer of the bad news (in your case, the school principal) and it must feel rather strange to have to try and defend the decision taken by OBEC to implement the project in this manner. I don't doubt that many of the local schools would have been more than happy enough to have a NES guy for the earlier agreed upon hours.

As far as I'm aware, the schools are not allowed to change the basic "50 hour @ 200 baht" principle, so you probably won't receive a better/different offer.

Naturally, there will be people happy enough to accept the new OBEC working schedule - and it's of course everybody's own choice as to how they choose.

One can only "hope" that enough people will likewise refuse the offer, so that the project ends as a complete wash-out and is forced to be started again, with a more reasonable plan and a better and continuous exchange of information.

It's just too ridiculous to leave both schools and applicants completely in the dark for so long!

I'm not competent enough to answer your WP question (though I suspect it is the local Department of Labour). Maybe another poster can help you more with this.

Cheers

Splod

I'm not so surprised now why the school has not come back to me :- Scenario

( School Director via interpretor ) ." Oh !! by the way the 24 hrs we offered before for 10,000 bht a month @ 400 baht an hour, is now 50 hours a month @ 200 baht hour. "

Edited June 19, 2012 by Kwasaki

[CaptainSplod]

Exactly! I'd certainly be embarrassed to have to try to explain to an applicant that the hours we'd agreed upon a couple of months ago were suddenly doubled up (or more) - and it's probably much more embarrassing for a Thai!

Cheers

Splod

[Kwasaki]

Exactly! I'd certainly be embarrassed to have to try to explain to an applicant that the hours we'd agreed upon a couple of months ago were suddenly doubled up (or more) - and it's probably much more embarrassing for a Thai!

Cheers

Splod

Interestingly enough this all reminds me of my Linguaphone handbook where the word ' kreengcay ' come's to mind.

It is written ' Many foreign writers on Thailand, regard ' kreengcay ' as being a key concept to understanding the way Thais view their society and relate to each other ', Thais, who regard ' kreencay ' as a positive value, will jokingly point to the absence of an adequate English translation as being a reflection of the ' farang's ' insensitivity and clumsiness in dealing with people at a personal level '.

Well I say they can think what they like :- my translation would be ' Taking the proverbial piss and trying to**** someone over '.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Scott
profanity edited out

[connda]

The longer I live here the more I believe that the average Thai simply doesn't have what it takes to plan and implement plans in a modern world. They muddle along --- and then the rest of the world will pass them by. Fuc*-ups like this would get you quickly fired in the private sector of my country. And in the public sector the populace is astute enough to start screaming when they see gross incompetence like this.

The only future I see for Thailand is one run by sharp, cut-throat multinational corporations that have the local government paid off at the macro and micro level. The person behind the curtain pulling the levers isn't a Thai. Any other programs aren't meant to succeed, they're meant to distribute the wealth to those with the most.

I'll take care of my own family and call it good. I consider this beyond redemption until I see it differently.

[Route21]

3. OBEc (Office of Basic Education) stipulates that all school follow the exact same principles :

- A NES person can only work at one school, working at multiple schools is not allowed.

- If you already work as a teacher, then you are not allowed to be a NES person in this OBEC project.

- The NES person is required to work exactly 50 hours a month, no more, no less.

- Forms will be supplied to the school to check the NES in- and out times.

- The responsible Area Education Centre will be required to occasionally visit the school to ascertain the standard of NES teaching.

At present, there is still no information regarding visa, work permit, possible tax payments - or anything else concerning the farang NES.

Cheers

Splod

Many thanks Splod for the very valuable info.

As I posted on another related site:

"I've just been advised, today, that my application has been successful, but I have had to turn it down for 2 primary reasons:

1. The promised 400 Baht/hour turned out to be only 200 Baht/hour by the time it reached my level.

2. We're in the middle of building a new house and it now involves a 35km car trip rather than just a walk down the village lane

Has anyone else experienced a cut between the rate the government promised and how much was left at the end of the trail?"

The teacher who came round to personally give me the news didn't get as far as mentioning the 50 hour rule - I'd already blown it out as soon as she told me the new rate! It just isn't worth it!

Also, until next month at least, I'm still on a retirement "visa" which would cut further into the available 3-4 month window for the "project".

R21

[CaptainSplod]

@ Route21

You're very welcome!

Another refusal in the same pattern.....looks rather like the trend of things

Thanks for the info.....

Good luck with the house!

Cheers

Splod

[Route21]

@ CaptainSplod

Many thanks

As a rider, I would note 2 things:

1. If the Government had allowed it, I could easily have been working with the local school for free over the past year, but couldn't/wouldn't jeopardise my "retirement" residency status.

2. I had also been approached, under the scheme, by a second school who were so desperate to have any form of English support (they have no English speakers/teachers in the school) that they were prepared to up the rate from their own resources. I had to turn them down, without submitting a formal application, as I believed that anything more than the 25 hours proposed would have involved too much of a commitment.

Now, 2 local (rural) schools will be without any NES support as, contrary to what they were told earlier, they have now been told that they can't propose a substitute NES. It's either the originally proposed NES or do without!

I'm not sure where the NES budget funds allocated to the school will go, but don't believe the school will ever see them.

R21

[CaptainSplod]

Hi route21 !

Interesting........

I'm certainly with you on the first point - and was in exactly the same situation a while back. Wanted to help out for just a few hours a week at a local school (the wife twisting my arm at the same time), but in the end dropped the idea, as being on a retirement visa and volunteering to work (even free) doesn't appear to be compatible. There's no way I'm risking my retirement status because of the often "ridiculous" stances taken by the various government offices - 'nuff said.

As for your second point, it's just too sad that none of the schools in the area will end up with a farang, teaching for a few hours. To the bods at OBEC, it might seem that 50 hours is not a great deal - but for the NES people involved, it often means having to change their daily routine quite significantly.

Too, I'm absolutely sure that many NES guys spend far more than just a few extra hours preparing for their coming lessons - as well as using time to consider and maybe improve upon their previous lessons. Those initial 50 hours can quickly get up to around the 100 hour mark, before you know it - and all these extra hours are completely free of charge for the government.

Like yourself, I'd put 25 hours as a benchmark maximum - perhaps allowing for some slight flexibility either way. However, the OBEC proposal appears to have been pulled out of a hat and I presume that many schools and areas will now be without any NES speakers at all. The icing on the cake seems to be the impossibility of changing the set 50 hour classroom timetables to suit the applicant - who often just can't (and won't) change all of their own routines. Sorry, but I can't just rip the mornings (for example) out of the calendar 5 days a week - I already have other arrangements of more importance.

At the same time, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some schools start to wake up and smell the coffee and think for themselves and try to arrange for a NES speaker for a few hours a week, by other means - without any government interference. After all, if you were given the chance to get a NES guy - but were stopped at the last minute by some stupid regulation, wouldn't you consider using any and all available alternatives to secure your NES guy? Or maybe I'm being too naive, here......

Cheers

Splod

[Route21]

Hi Splod

I'm with you all the way, until you get to your last para.

A mate of mine told me about a fellow farang who was an accomplished "pub pianist". He would regularly go down to his local bar and play on a piano they had acquired. A guy started chatting to him on one occasion and casually asked him how often he played and whether they paid him. He said no, they didn't pay him, but they would often give him a free beer. The guy told him that it constituted "paid work" and, if he caught him playing again, he would be in serious trouble.

Substitute a pepsi and a bowl of noodles for the beer, for helping a bunch of students with their English, and add in the possibility of the problems that the Head of English at one of the Private Schools has had recently and it just isn't worth it! It only needs one disgruntled parent......

So sad!

Regards

R21

[silentnine]

my little post here has gone a long way since it started

the school who originally contacted me has finally just called again..

we have 40k for you .. you have been approved. can you please come and see us asap

firstly I'm amazed how i could of been approved. they only ever had a copy of the photo-page of my passport and visa page

my visa being a non immi O multi entry. my understanding was they would need marriage papers and a marriage based visa which i do not have anyway,

I've relayed all the latest info and queries from it regarding the now 50hrs, and also queried work permit .

and the replies i seem to be getting are yes it now says 50 hours but ignore it. just tick box's and do 1 day per week

they know nothing about work-permits and say they view it as a farang helping Thailand in the same way many did during the floods. also they say they asked there head office or education department about wp's and have been told simply not need

as many of the schools appear to have the 40k in hand i assume they may prefer to bend the rules rather than return it

especially in rural areas where so many farangs are in truth working away on there little (or large) farms without work permits it seem a mute point to complain or express concern about the lack of one .

from the schools point of view they say they have been given 40k, 10k per month to give to me , no tax, no insurance, no work permit. just cash in hand that i sign for

other than a timesheet they have no other obligation that as yet has become known.

off to see them on monday so i'll see. if they do change there mind and push for 50 hours then i like many others will not be able to carry it thru.

Edited June 20, 2012 by silentnine

[CaptainSplod]

Hi Silentnine!

Now that's a new twist on things! See, there's one guy at the school has his (her) head twisted on correctly and has understood how to benefit from this project and give his kids a better chance at learning English.

Hopefully, you'd been following this thread and were already aware of the OBEC rules and regulations before you were contacted by the school.

Congratulations on your new job and we hope it all goes off very well for you.

Cheers

Splod

[CaptainSplod]

Heh! - Yep, exactly right, there!

Some years ago I'd thought about playing quiet background music on keyboard for an hour or two in the evenings - in my own restaurant ! Nothing serious and good practice for me - and maybe the customers don't mind, either. No salary of any kind, no food, nothing - maybe just a glass of water now and then. Checked things out - and nope, you can only play once or twice - anything resembling "regular" playing would be considered 'work'. Crazy.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to infer that schools would avoid any necessary WPs and whatnot - just that they'd maybe do their own hiring, now that they're aware of the farangs in their area. Some NES guys probably wouldn't mind working for just a few hours a week, say 2, 3 or 4 hours - for a minimal amount of money.,..the school - especially a small one that can't afford a proper English teacher - gets a huge benefit from it and the farang gets to help out, too. It's really a win win situation for all. But as I said - maybe I'm just being naive...

Cheers

Splod

[Scott]

Thanks for the information. The bureaucracies are so sad sometimes. When this program was being discussed, couldn't the Education people have sat down with Immigration and asked who needs what from whom; what, if any exception, can be made to what regulations. The same with the Ministry of Labor. A packet of information could have been sent to all schools with a lot of answers.

[CaptainSplod]

Heh, heh - now maybe you're being naive! That would mean various government offices having to actually work together - and from what I can gather, that's something that just doesn't happen very often - if at all - not even during catastrophes (like floods).

But, yes - it'd certainly be a great thing and would ultimately save a whole lot of confusion, as well as wasted time and money.

Cheers

Splod

[Scott]

My apologies for dreaming again. I have pinched myself and woken up! It won't happen again.

Many of you have shown extraordinary patience.

[plopmeister]

Hi, sorry for being away from the thread so long my PC has been ill..

I am now happily working well into my second Month and am being paid directly from the school whilst my longer term solution is chugging through official channels.

There now seems to be weekly meetings at Provincial level that the school director has to attend and has to report on my case..One bit of shocking feedback is that some schools are not only using Philipinos as NES but ......get this...NES from Myanmar and Camaroon!!!

[ags83]

I would like to hear some more opinions on falangs working without a work permit out in the country. Are there actual cases of teachers getting into real trouble. I honestly doubt it, i simply don't know who would be checking up on it out here, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I am aware that the law states you can go to jail and get deported .... but this is Thailand and there is a big difference between whats written on paper and reality, is there any chance of this actually occuring?

And, yes I have been working at the local school for 3 weeks (6 days) and have not started the procedure yet. Firstly the school has absolutely no idea about what that involves, they are also incompetent and I would have to push them to get every document required. Also the contract is only until September and it would probably take that long to get it all sorted out anyway.

[ags83]

Also on another note regarding inneficient / incompetent bureaucracy..... yes of course they are. Of course this initiative won't get anything done, but things like this sound good on paper and some higher ups will get some recognition, it allows many meetings to take place and gets a lot of money into the hands of the well connected. It's the same everywhere in the world although here it just more obvious.

I still find it pretty hilarious that they have teachers who have completed a 4 years 'masters' course in English and can speak at a 3 year old level.

[Scott]

Legally you need a Work Permit. People do occasionally get into trouble for not having one. I don't know of anyone who has gotten into trouble when the application for the work permit is being processed. My suggestion would be to have the school start the process (you will probably be doing most of the legwork).

People who get sprung without a work permit are probably people who have ticked someone off and they have been reported to immigration/MOL.

[silentnine]

had my meeting with the school yesterday.

back to sticking to the rules it seems

50 hours fixed / 1.5 days per week approx

or 200bt per hour whichever is the lesser amount upto a maximum of 10,000 per month

no go. and apologies all round

had i been living in the village full time i may of carried it thru, however we are weekend visitors and the idea in our minds was to extend visits until monday evening.and extending until Tuesday night conflicted with other commitments.

they have gone back to regional hq to ask if they can bend the rules and also said they were going to talk to other schools to see how they are handling the change, but i do not really hold out much hope. a shame really as after seeing everyone happy to see me it made me feel a little more at ease

the pupils who were all hanging around in the play grounds seemed to know why we were there as we were greeted by nearly everyone.

the school age was 14+ or 15+ and a large school.

[CaptainSplod]

As you say - a real shame - and I presume you were otherwise thinking to start work on the 1st July. It's no fun thinking that one has been accepted and everything is starting to roll - then only to hear that it probably won't amount to anything, after all.

Still, there's at least a slight chance that the school might be able to get their own way in the end - so fingers crossed and hope it all falls into place for you.

I'm in something of the same position - got a call to say I'd been accepted and that I'd be contacted very shortly, just as soon as "things were in place". That was a long while ago and since then not a word, not a whisper. To be honest, I no longer having any real interest in the matter - all along the process has been far too amateurish and it's abundantly clear that absolutely nothing in this project has been planned properly in any way.

I'm given to understand that this is quite "normal" in this country - and I'm certainly not surprised to hear that many teachers have already moved to other Asean countries, where English has been on the boards for a long time already - and students are far more advanced than in Thailand.

So, as yet I still haven't heard of anyone actually being hired as a NES guy and starting work ...........

Cheers

Splod

Edited June 30, 2012 by CaptainSplod

[Issangeorge]

I have just finished teaching one month at my local school. The hours were 2 hours Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday mornings. When I was offered the job I was also offered a full Time job Teaching 20 hours a week for 33,000 a month, but it was away from home and meant that I would have to commute on weekends. I have being doing that for five years now and decided even though it was a lot less money I would rather walk to the school and teach 6 hours a week than commute. The teaching was great, most of the students wanted to learn and the class size was only 24 students, so the students that wanted to learn you could teach. On Thursday June 27, the School Director informed me that the school had not received funding for me yet and they could not keep me on until they received the funding. I am supposed to be paid for my first month, but have not been yet. My wife told me that the money is going to come from the other Thai Teachers; I don’t think they are too happy about this. If the school really wanted to keep me on why couldn’t they collect from the students? I had 144 students, so it would work out to 70 baht a month or less than 20 baht a week, you would think that even the very poorest of the students could afford that amount. The students I was teaching were P4,5&6 and M1,2&3 students and they had no English at all, I had to start at the alphabet with them. I really enjoyed teaching them and have thought about volunteering my time, although at 10,000 baht, you are basically volunteering anyway, but I don’t want to set the precedent. The Thais already are too caught up in the notion of getting something for nothing. I don’t want to encourage it.

[CaptainSplod]

Ouch! That's just awful.

I do sympathise with your situation - which really sounds pretty typical for a good deal of schools. It's certainly not a good deal for the students involved - and I can well imagine that they were more than happy to be taught - just as you were happy doing the teaching.

Agree with you, you would think the school could arrange for the parents to support the teaching. At one time we had the idea of going to some of the local businesses to ask if they'd consider sponsoring an English teacher, but that would require permission from the school. Then the government came along with their own plan and our idea naturally just vanished into thin air. Maybe your school would consider asking any local businesses - you never know.

I can't say I blame you for not volunteering to teach for free. It's always a delicate balance - and there's unfortunately the risk of things going wrong, of being misused - and of people apparently getting jealous. An example - one evening I helped a student (that lives nearby) with a lesson he had - before you knew it, there were others wanting (or perhaps expecting) the same service. It can end up being rather overwhelming if you're not careful.

Still, maybe you have already "volunteered" a month free...

Hopefully you'll receive your month's salary - and hopefully the other teachers won't have to be involved.

Good luck - and thanks for informing us

Cheers

Splod

[Issangeorge]

Splod, your idea of getting small businesses to sponsor an English Teacher is a good one, but in my small village, there really aren't any. Issangeorge

[Christian1950]

====BREAKING RE: NES via OBEC====

A few months ago I had been invited to teach at 3 different schools in the Northeast and had applied via OBEC, but sadly, was refused as I'm over 60. Lo-and-behold about 3 weeks ago one of these schools contacted me and I was offered 200 baht per hour to teach 2 days per week, and I accepted. It's a low wage, but unlike many folks, I truly love teaching, and think underprivileged children deserve a chance, too, so I was willing to take the dive. Things these past few weeks have gone very well, and the students obviously enjoyed my teaching, and I also enjoyed seeing them two days per week.

This morning I was called early to the school to meet with the lead teacher. She apologized, saying, "The children all love you", but went on to say that OBEC had no more funding left for me to continue. She also said that it was not just me, but that all other NES teachers were being stopped. On the bright side, she said, that if and when funds become available, that she would call me back. Let there be no doubt, she was truly sad for the children and for me, and reassured me how much they all had looked forward to my lessons. Despite my age, I'm quite a spry fellow, and the children's laughter and expressions of joy could be heard ringing out from the sound lab... I always try to make learning entertaining and fun! (I remember the adage: "With children, if it's not fun, they're not learning!")

I'm not sure if this is truly happening everywhere, but feel sad that OBEC has seemingly failed to "get it together" for the kid's sakes, and truly hope they'll stop bickering and get real about the serious trouble Thailand will be in 2015, when members of other ASEA nations flood into Thailand sucking up available jobs due to inadequate English among Thais. But then, it seems those greedy individuals in power always seek to keep the lower classes down, so as not to let them compete on their own turf. This is not just a problem in Thai education, but is evident virtually everywhere on the planet.

Parents need to complain about this and demand changes before it's too late!

[thequietman]

====BREAKING RE: NES via OBEC====

A few months ago I had been invited to teach at 3 different schools in the Northeast and had applied via OBEC, but sadly, was refused as I'm over 60. Lo-and-behold about 3 weeks ago one of these schools contacted me and I was offered 200 baht per hour to teach 2 days per week, and I accepted. It's a low wage, but unlike many folks, I truly love teaching, and think underprivileged children deserve a chance, too, so I was willing to take the dive. Things these past few weeks have gone very well, and the students obviously enjoyed my teaching, and I also enjoyed seeing them two days per week.

This morning I was called early to the school to meet with the lead teacher. She apologized, saying, "The children all love you", but went on to say that OBEC had no more funding left for me to continue. She also said that it was not just me, but that all other NES teachers were being stopped. On the bright side, she said, that if and when funds become available, that she would call me back. Let there be no doubt, she was truly sad for the children and for me, and reassured me how much they all had looked forward to my lessons. Despite my age, I'm quite a spry fellow, and the children's laughter and expressions of joy could be heard ringing out from the sound lab... I always try to make learning entertaining and fun! (I remember the adage: "With children, if it's not fun, they're not learning!")

I'm not sure if this is truly happening everywhere, but feel sad that OBEC has seemingly failed to "get it together" for the kid's sakes, and truly hope they'll stop bickering and get real about the serious trouble Thailand will be in 2015, when members of other ASEA nations flood into Thailand sucking up available jobs due to inadequate English among Thais. But then, it seems those greedy individuals in power always seek to keep the lower classes down, so as not to let them compete on their own turf. This is not just a problem in Thai education, but is evident virtually everywhere on the planet.

Parents need to complain about this and demand changes before it's too late!

You must always remember that schools here, are not institutions of learning. They are merely a business to make money, nothing more. I am sorry to hear about your problems but when they turned you down the first time because you were over 60, you should have seen this coming. A retired teacher with 28 years experience in the UK was turned down at a school here because of his age and he wasn't hansum enough. Maybe try to do some private classes. you will make some good friends with your students and you will be giving something back. I have recently started private classes where the students from the village can learn with me for 50 baht an hour. minimum class is 10 people. I have 2 classes already and still growing. good luck.