Where To Buy Gfci Outlets

[Pib]

After looking in several HomePro's, Global House, HomeMart, etc., in/around Bangkok over several months I haven't been able to find any GFCI outlets like shown below. I can find RCBO's to plug into your main circuit box and have installed 2 Square D RCBOs for my two water heaters, but I can't find any GFCI outlets.

Anyone know where a person can buy such GFCI outlets in/around Bangkok regardless of brand (i.e., you have bought or seen them at store XYZ). Thanks.

Link

[lopburi3]

Have never seen for sale here. Most people want everything protected so much cheaper to use main panel system than outlets. With many homes not having ground and having people in bare feet on surfaces that are often wet and conductive the specialized bath/pool criteria of some countries is probably not what should be observed here.

[Pib]

Not sure I would want to go the Whole House type RCD protection with one main RCD because when it trips you have no power anywhere in the house...that would suck if it trips while you are away for a day or so...all the food in your refrigerator(s) spoils, no lights, no nothing, etc. And then you have a problem tracking down what device/circuit is causing the tripping which in turns forces a person to deactivate the RCD function or if you have a RCD that can't be deactivated (turn the earth leakage feature off) you are in dark until you can find & fix the problem. Yes, I guess a whole house RCD would be the safest but I'm willing to take the change that some circuits in my two story house don't have RCD protection.

But if going the whole house route I guess I could retrotfit my 100A service Square D 16 breakers (plus main breaker) with a Safe-T-Cut 100A RCD like the one at this Link. Or just replace the whole Square D box with a RCD integrated/protected box. Either way ain't cheap; nor is individual RCBOs in the main circuit box at the prices charged for RCBOs in Thailand. What I really want to do is just have a few more circuits which have earth leakage protection via RCBOs that plug into my current main circuit box or using GFCI sockets. Basically end up with some circuits RCD protected (like my water heaters which are now RCBO protected, my clothes dryer which is RCD breaker-switch protected, and one or two other outlets I would like to put GFCI sockets on). One of these sockets powers the clothes washer but I have two refrigerators on the same circuit so I just want the clothes washer RCD protected by using a GFCI socket. Oh yea, I'm probably going to buy another Square D RCBO for my water pump...that will cost me anywhere from B1575 to B1795 depending on which HomePro/Global I go to.

End up with a "split circuit-type setup" kinda like the main circuit breaker box shown at Crossy's web page, except all of RCD type devices would not be physically in the main circuit box...some would be downstream of the box like the dryer RCD switch and the GFCI outlet(s). And the Square D main box shown on Crossy's web page is exactly the one I have except it has all 16 output circuit positions in use.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Pib

[lopburi3]

There are split box setups available from Clipsal sold here I know. Or you can just have several breakers box (I have four in my average size home).

[Pib]

There are split box setups available from Clipsal sold here I know. Or you can just have several breakers box (I have four in my average size home).

Thanks. I am going to have another small box next to my main circuit box pretty soon as I building myself a whole house surge protector. I'm just waiting for some special in-service green LED lights I ordered off Ebay to arrive...these lights will tell me whenever any of the MOVs or thermal fuses have failed probably due to a big surge/lightning. It will provide Line to Neutral, Line to Earth, and Neutral to Earth mode surge protection to cover all three modes a surge can ride on power lines. I've got the MOVs, thermal fuses, regular fuses, etc...etc...etc..all but configured and all where bought locally from electronics/hardware stores. I figure I'll have about $20 invested in the box when finished...heck the core of most surge protectors is just MOVs and MOVs are cheap. This is just another keep-busy project for a retiree.

[Crossy]

Haco do make RCD protected outlets, but I've never seen them on sale.

http://www.hacothail...imageField.y=10

Why not stick an RCBO (like you already have on the water heaters) on the circuits you want to protect and leave the freezer on an un-protected circuit.

[Pib]

Haco do make RCD protected outlets, but I've never seen them on sale.

http://www.hacothail...imageField.y=10

Why not stick an RCBO (like you already have on the water heaters) on the circuits you want to protect and leave the freezer on an un-protected circuit.

Thanks. Neither have I seen the Haco GFCI (or Safe-T-Cut) GFCI outlets for sale anywhere...no problem finding GFCI outlets on web sites...just can't find them in stores to date. I would have to move the refrigerators to another room to put them on a circuit separate from the washer which is a key reason I'm looking for just a GFCI outlet to power the washer. I could installed a RCD breaker-switch like I have on the dryer and then wire the washer to that but that would result in more hole drilling to mount the RCD device...wires being run between it and another washer socket...wouldn't look too great on the wall. I'll continue to take my chances for now ( I do have a good ground) until I can get a GFCI socket.

Why, oh Why, are such electrical products like this so hard to find at stores in Thailand. I guess the Thai Electrical Standard (giggle, giggle) and public considers them unneeded.

[kamalabob2]

I did not attend this year, but if you are in or near Bangkok today Sunday, you could see all manner of Electrical items on display. Just as important the booths most often have staff who understand and speak English, and who can answer your questions regarding items you do not normally see in a big box retail store, but in fact any store COULD order if you knew the model number. I'll wager there are several brands on display of what the O.P. is hunting.

http://www.architectexpo.net/index-eng.php

Often the major manufacturers will have specialized catalogs to distribute at this particular show, they sometimes will sell items at an attractive discount, since no retailer is in the mix.

• Website : www.architectexpo.net
  

Estimated numbers of visitors throughout 6 days: more than 350,000 Exhibitor Profile Group of Products or Services Detail Group 1 : LIGHTING & AV & IT Electrical appliances, Lightings, Computers, Alarms Group 2 : SANITARYWARE & KITCHEN Sanitaryware and Kitchen utensils Group 3 : TILE & STONE Tiles, Marbles, Granites, and equipments Group 4 : FINISHES & HOUSEHOLD PRODUCTS Finishings, Wall Papers, Carpets, Curtains, Home office Furniture Group 5 : DOOR & WINDOW Door & Window Equipment , Fence , Automatic Door, Construction Service Group 6 : ROOF & INSULATION & METAL Roof, Insulation Hot & Cold , Water proof, Awning, Steel, Concrete Group 7 : FACILITIES & OTHERS Energy Saving & Control Services

Government offices and State Enterprises

Other related product & Services

[beechstreet]

Haco do make RCD protected outlets, but I've never seen them on sale.

You could go to their office on Ngam Wong Wan (paste these GPS Coordinates into google maps: 13.860323, 100.528711) and buy directly from them. Of course would be advisable to call and make sure they have it in stock.

[electau]

Socket protected RCDs. SPRCDs in 10mA and 30mA. Will protect all outlets downstream of the SPRCD installed.

They are an option where it is not practicable to install on switchboard or for special applications.

Try Clipsal Thailand .

http://www2.clipsal.com/cis/technical/contact_us/office_locations/international/thailand

[Pib]

Thanks to everyone for your recommendations. Today I ended up calling the Bangkok Safe-T-Cut Service Center at 02-741-5181 on Sukhumvit Rd (Sukhumvit 62/1) to see if they had GFCI receptacles in stock and, if so, how much they cost. Well, I initiated the call but quickly had to hand the cell phone off to the pre-briefed Thai wife because as expected the interactive voice system and rep answering the phone was in Thai only. Anyway, the Service Center did have them in stock and they cost B650....the one I'm talking about in this post is the one shown on the left side of the picture in my Post #1....I didn't ask about the one shown on the right side.

Then the conversation moved to is there any place in our part of Bangkok (western Bangkok/Khet Talingchan area) that carried the GFCI receptacles. Turns out Safe-T-Cut did have a booth in the Bang Yai (Nonthaburi) Big C which is collocated with HomePro and directly across from the Big King Plaza and Big C Extra (the old Carrefour). So, jumped in the SUV and about 20 minutes later I was there looking for the booth in the Big C/HomePro mall. Finally found it just before you go inside Big C entrance directly across from the Swensens Ice Cream Shop. This Safe-T-Cut booth only consists of three glass counters with products on display and one each rep who spoke zero English....you could easily walk by it as it's collocated with a printer ink booth and couple other booths selling odds and ends. But the Safe-T-Cut rep in the booth had 5 GFCI receptacles in stock and I bought 2 of them for B650 each....and I was given a free combination flashlight and tool kit probably worth B300-B500 baht....the flashlight about the size of a cigar box opens up and inside is a variety of tools. Nice little kit....especially since it was free.

I haven't installed the receptacles yet but they look very nice and appear to be quality material. They come with a orange plastic conduit box in case you were doing a brand new installation/making a hole in the concrete wall. Installations instructions are all in Thai, but that's no big deal as about a million web sites/YouTube video clips show a person how to install a GFCI/RCD outlet which basically boils down to the incoming L & N hook to the GFCI Line/Input L & N connectors....if the GFCI receptacle is being installed in the middle of a circuit run and its output leads feeds other receptacles/switches/etc., down the line then those L & N output leads hook to the GFCI Output/Load L & N connectors. The GFCI receptacle also has a Earth connector. The labeling on the receptacle is in English and the packaging box is both Thai and English. Specs for the receptacle are 16A/30ma, 230VAC, 50Hz. And as shown int the picture there is green Test button, a Black reset button, and indicator light. Below are some pictures of the GFCI, packaging, and contents. And as shown in the pictures the GFCI receptacle can accept a variety of plug connectors...flat pins, round pins, U pins, etc. Note for those who may want a electrician to install the GFCI: the Service Center said they would send a technician with the GFCI and install the GFCI...I don't exactly remember the price for this service but I think it was around B1000 to B1200 per receptacle.

Now I just need to install the GFCI recepticals...the first one goes in a kitchen/utility room area that powers my washing machine and a few other things....the second one will probably go on my indoor kitchen sink area which powers a variety of small appliances, microwave, outlets, and a light. These GFCI recepticles are giving the exact flexibility I wanted to add earth leakage protection to certain outlets/circuits without having to use a main circuit box RCBO which would protect a whole circuit/area, but also protect some items like my main refrigerators/freezers full of food & drink which I didn't want earth leakage protected in case of a nuisance trip which may not be noticed for days (or longer if on a trip) and would result in food spoilage. The GFCI recepticle at B650 each are sure cheaper than a Square D RCBO for the main box...an 16A-32A/10ma RCBO (can't find a Square D QOvs 30ma RCBO) that is now running in the B1569 to B1800 range at HomePro or Global....and HomeWorks wants approx B2200 if I was reading their bin location labeling correctly. But both a RCBO and GFCI have their location uses where one may be more desired/suitable than the other.

Thanks again to all for your inputs...between the RCBOs and the GFCI receptacles I'm now getting real close to having the earth leakage protection I want on my home electrical system....I can then worry about something else.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Pib

[Pib]

And the first one just installed and tested OK...tested via its built-in Test push button and a little self made tester (i.e., a 7W light bulb, socket, and the two leads coming off the socket) that puts approx 30ma - 50ma from L-E (actual milliamps drawn depends on the true wattage of the 7W light bulb which tends to actually be around 10W based on the couple of bulbs I've tried by measuring the current). I need to find a lower wattage 220V bulb, or better yet get a 0-50K variable resistor to replace the light bulb so I can do an accurate test in the 5ma to 30ma range for my 10ma RCBOs/30ma GFCIs. Use the an ohmmeter to measure the resistance level the RCBO/GFCI tripped at and then do a little I=E/R math. Of course the coming days/weeks/months of use will be the GFCI's true reliability test.

[electau]

The test current for a 10mA RCD is 10mA. They must not trip at 50% ie 5mA and must trip betwen 50% and 100%. RCD testers are available that will plug into a socket outlet and give polarity test and RCD test switched 5/10/15/30mA. They will not measure time or sensitivity, just an RCD trip test. The test you are doing is known as a fast test, normally 5 x RCD current in mA.

[Pib]

Yea, it's a fast/inaccurate test, but at least it's a real world test that doesn't rely on the RCD's built-in Test button circuitry and a tester anyone can easily make for a few baht. Easy enough to confirm correct polarity with my voltmeter. Get that 0-50K variable resistor along with my voltmeter & some I=E/R math and I can do some more accurate testing especially since the GFCI is at the end of the circuit.

Since I have a second Safe-T-Cut GFCI I haven't installed yet I decided I would try to measure the resistance used in the device's Test circuit which generates a tripping current. I measured the resistance from the GFCI's Load L Input terminal (where you attach the incoming L wire) to a Neutral output terminal (where you plug into the device). This would measure the test circuit resistance like the test circuit diagram shown in below picture.

Without the Test button pressed I measured infinity/no resistance as required; with the Test button depressed I measured 9,000 ohms. So, now the math: 220V/9000 ohms equals 24.4ma. And if I use the 230V rating on the GFCI then 230V/9000 ohms = 25.5ma

I was a little surprised in the test current wasn't more than the GFCI's 30ma rating since I read in various blogs/websites that's probably how manufacturers build their RCDs test circuity....that is, the Test button current is actually higher than the RCD earth leakage trip rating (i.e., a 30ma RCD test button may apply over 30ma, a 10ma RCD test button may apply over 10ma, etc). Well, maybe those blogs/websites are wrong or at least wrong for Safe-T-Cut GFCIs. Seems Safe-T-Cut has the GFCI Test circuity designed to check the device at around 85% of the required 15ma (50%) to 30ma (100%) trip requirement. Cheers.

[longball53098]

Pib,

All good stuff and it got e looking at the Safe T Cut devices. I do not see a price that you paid for the GFCI outlets? Did I miss it? The eyes are getting old.

I just now finished a meet with the local Safe T Cut rep from Pattaya. He was down in Rayong area today so they stopped by my place. We discussed (via my Thai wife) the GFCI outlets and the RCD Plug that is meant to protect an extension cable. They quoted me 1,200 B each type so I ordered one of each to give them a try. If the GFCI outlets work out I most likely will buy more as I have several outlets I would like to use them on instead of a expensive unit for the CU.

They also offer a Surge protector for a CU unit but he says this style Surge protector is meant for a SIngle Phase CU and would not work in my 3 Phase panel. It looks like the device would take up one position in a breaker box and get wired in series with the circuit breaker that it will protect but there is no technical documents to view so I am not sure how the device installs. The rep suggested a 3 phase surge protector that would need special install to the incoming supply at the CU but Safe T Cut does not offer this

Maybe one of the experts has some insight here.

When I get the GFCI next week I will post more on my experiences

[lopburi3]

650 baht per below

Anyway, the Service Center did have them in stock and they cost B650....the one I'm talking about in this post is the one shown on the left side of the picture in my Post #1....I didn't ask about the one shown on the right side.

[Pib]

Yeap, B650 for a GFCI per Post #11. However, as mentioned in Post 11 the price was around B1000-1200 if the Safe-T-Cut tech also did the install which means means the delivery & labor approx doubled the basic price of the item. About normal for such deals in terms of cost or item only or cost of item including installation.

The surge protector you describe which takes one slot in the CU sounds like the Safe-T-Cut STC125 shown at this link. From looking at the labeling it appears to only use MOV(s) (which is common) and probably with a thermal fuse and LED operations light thrown in. It appears to be for a Single Phase CU and it would probably be wired up by "possibly" connecting a short piece of wire from the output connector of another breaker to the L terminal on the SPC125, if, repeat, if, the STC don't automatically make a connection to your L rail when plugging in the device. Then a short piece of wire is connected between the STC N terminal (you can't see the N terminal in the link picture), and then the PE terminal goes to your earth/safety/PE bar in you CU. Without any internal diagram or breaking a unit apart to see how it's actually wired internally, I expect the STC places a MOV(s) across the L to E (PE) lines and N to E (PE) points...and maybe even L to N. Then again, there is a diagram of sorts on the front of the STC125 and if that reflects the internal wiring then the MOV is across the L to E (PE) and N to E (PE) lines

Below is a cut & paste of a similar surge protector type device that plugs into a CU just like a circuit breaker and internally it uses a MOV and Spark Gap/Gas Arrestor along with a thermal fuse, but the reason I show this cut & paste is because it shows how it is connected to the Line, Neutral, and E (PE) lines.

[electau]

Surge Protection Devices (SPDs) are available in single modules and they are connected after the main MCB. They may be protected by a 32A MCB. IF you have a TT connection you will require 1 for the line and 1 for the neutral, for 3 phase 4 modules are required.

If you have a MEN conection you do not require the module for the neutral. They protect against surges and spikes.They are not for overcurrent protection.

[electau]

The test button checks the operation of the RCD by introducing an out of balance by way of a built in resistor.

It does not check the continuity of the earth conductor, this can be only checked by a suitable RCD test device. The standard test current is 10mA and 30mA.

If your earth conductor has been verified all that is required is the operation of the test button.

[longball53098]

I am going to continue this topic with a bit of info about Safe T Cut GFCI's and RCD Plugs and my shopping experience.

More than a week ago I had a good voice chat with Khun Pib using Google Talk PC to PC. After the discussion and reading this topic I contacted SafeTCut using first the contact numbers I found on their website for a rep in the Rayong area. The rep is located in the Pattaya area just up the soi from the US VFW Post. Anyway, the rep actually called me and came to my house in Ban Chang. He was not expecting to be asked about these products the GFCI and RCD plugs so he was caught off guard. But after my explanation via my wife and a short visit to the website he knew what I was after. He had to call the BKK office and ask about the product. After the call he explained the items would need to be ordered from BKK and the cost for each was 1,200 each. I gave him a disgruntled look and asked via my wife if this was correct for just the product or if this includes delivery and installation,,,,,,,,he stated that this was product only. I did not approve of the price but when asked if this was "my" cost and that it seems BKK charged another customer about 650 each he said oh could be that BKK charges less. Weak explanation to say the least. As this was late Friday I told him to go ahead and order 2 each and let me know when they arrive next week. The next day we called him to cancel this order and he did not even bat an eye to try to ask why or offer a discount.

So at this point my wife called the lady that runs the small booth where Mr Pib bought his products. I got this number from him the day before. The lady confirmed she has the products and could EMS to me early the next week. The cost for the GFCI receptacles was 650 each and the RCD Plug was 750. She would EMS 2 each GFCI and 1 RCD Plug to me for 2,000 baht. She gave my wife instruction for making payment by bank transfer to Safe T Cut SCB account.

I made the transfer on Sunday and by Wednesday last I received the products. Good deal so far.

Yesterday I decided to open and install one of the GFCIs on an existing outlet on my back deck that we use for an extension cord for hot pots and other misc small appliances. This outlet is already using a Panasonic duplex plug with weather proof cover. It never gets direct rain or splashes but can get sprayed from big rain and wind. I powered it off and removed the plug.

I did my thing and installed the new GFCI as per their diagram clearly showing the input L and N connections as well as E. After connecting I powered it from my panel and got a surprise that it was not working. After looking a bit closer in my diagnosing what may be my incorrect wiring I discovered the "Reset" button did not look normal to me. It appeared that the button was inset way past what I think should be normal. I opened the second unit and compared them and for sure the button had an issue. I used an old power cord and wired up the unit on my work bench to test and found that it would not power up and no attempts to use the button would allow operation. I then wired the second unit to my test cord and it functioned perfectly and I could now see a green LED lit up when the unit was reset. A press of the test button did indeed trip the relay in the unit and a very slight touch of the rest button did in fact reset the unit. So it was very clear that the defective unit reset button was at fault as it was pushed way in to the mount hole and clearly had a problem/

I installed the working unit to the circuit as planned and tested it. No issues and now I have this outlet working as a local GFCI that protects us.

We called the lady today and she said please send the defective unit back. I hope they don't try to say that I broke this button as might be the case. I did nothing except connect the wires and then attempt to press the reset with no more pressure than a slight push.

All in all I like the unit. I think the wire connections are not as positive in their ability to secure the connection but with a bit of torque on the screws they do hold firmly. My Panasonic plugs hold much better.

I also tested the RCD Plug unit with a power cord. I think this will be a nice addition to use on any extension cord I use outdoors as this will make any plug-in GFCI protected. I plan to make up a short cable and plug to attach to the unit. As with most Thai electrical products the plug side of this unit is a Schuko style that needs an adapter to utilize the earth connection. As I understand RCD/GFCI no earth is needed but nice to have.

I hope I have not rambled on here too much but this has been my experience to date. As I know Pib has bought these also maybe he can post a report as to how things went for him. He seems to be very thorough in his reports. For the most part I am pleased with the units I bought.

[Pib]

Longball,

Both of my Safe-T-Cut GFCIs installed fine and are working fine. Installed them in my kitchen/utility room areas.

Heck, I even completed initial construction of my self-made Whole House Surge Protector (52KA per phase/line rating) and installed it along side my main service panel...been running about a week now and it hasn't blown up or caught fire yet. Not one solder joint; all components mounted on screw terminal blocks and incoming lines crimped to connectors although I really didn't have to crimp the lines...could have screwed them down directly also. I have a 100A Single Phase TT system. Last year during a lightning storm my ADSL modem, separate Linksys router, VOIP adapter, power adapters for these devices, and two cordless phone power adapters were zapped by lightning....the lightning bolt that took-out these devices hit my neighbor's house and blew away approx a half dozen cement-fiber tiles/singles...and then rain just came into the house. At this point in time I decided I needed to add to surge protection to my house. I quickly added some phone line protectors since the lightning appeared to ride in on the phone/internet line, but I decided I really needed to also add some point-of-use surge protectors (i.e., surge protected power strips) and a whole house surge protector. I went ahead and modified all my power strips to add good surge protection to each strip by putting three 20mm MOVs in each strip to protect L-N, L-E, and N-E modes which surges can ride on. The power strips I had either had zero surge protection or only one 10mm MOV across the L-N lines...really no to little surge protection.

Hopefully this whole house surge protector will help defend against the hellish lightning/thunderstorms we get sometimes....any maybe help protect against man-made and equipment-made spikes/surges. They say 80% of surges/spikes come from facility/home internal sources (i.e., electrical equipment turning off and on, etc) and the remaining 20% from outside the facility/home (i.e., surges/spikes on the power line, lightning, etc). Frequent surges/spikes are a source of slow death to electronic components and we all know what lightning surges can do. The protector would be classified a Type II surge protector since it's installed at the main service panel right after the main breaker versus before or after the service panel. A Type I protector is one you install before the service panel (usually like right after the meter) and a Type III protector is like a surge protected power strip you plug your TV into. The Surge Protector I built protects in all three single phase surge modes of L-N, L-E, and N-E. For a person having a 3 phase system they would have another mode of L-L they should also protect. Most low cost surge protectors that you buy only provide some protection in one mode using 1 small MOV...pretty much like surge protector strips which usually just protect in just one mode...normally L-N).

Bought/ordered twelve 20mm MOVs here in Bangkok from ES Source Electronics (four 6500A MOVs per mode)...and the enclosure plastic box, block connnectors, wires, etc., I just bought at HomePro/Homeworks...I probably have around $15 invested in parts so far. MOVs are cheap...only cost around 7 baht each and MOVs comprise the core components of almost every surge protector. I do have three 220V LEDs lamps to add to the surge protector (ordered these off Ebay...should arrive this week) as diagnostics/operational type lights...will modify the box with the lights once they arrive...then I will have around $20 total invested. And my self made surge protector is probably every bit as good (or better) than ones that costs in the $100 to $200 (or higher) ballpark...there is some BIG profit in whole house surge protectors. Heck, I even included some thermal fuses in the circuit in case any of the MOVs would ever catch fire. And if my whole house surge protector ever develops a fault I can fix it myself by changing that 7 to 10 baht MOV or thermal fuse versus spending $100-$200 for a replacement protector. The whole house surge protector is also protected by being connected to one of the service panel's 16A circuit breakers. Don't ask me to post the schematic/parts lists...simple and cheap to build...a person can google up the info....I don't want to be blamed for anyone zapping themselves or smoking their service panel.

Sure, sure, someone is thinking right now they have a surge protector module(s) in their service panel and that is good...but it's probably just one module that provides some protection from L-N (maybe L-E), probably not providing that many KAamp in protection, and costs a fair amount to replace. Still good, but a dedicated whole house protector is much better in terms of surge modes protected and amount of surge it can handle like from a nearby lightning strike.

Now, this surge protector won't from direct lightning strikes--too many millions or hundreds of thousands of volts there...no protector can do that although some manufacturers make claims their surge protectors do)...but hopefully the whole surge protector (now my primary surge protector) combined with my point of use surge protected power strips (my secondary surge protection) will do a good job of defending against everyday type surges/spikes and nearby lightning strikes. Time will tell.

Cheers,

Pib

[lopburi3]

In 37 years have not lost more than a couple phones from lightning strikes and have not noticed any reduction in life of electric/electronic equipment so personally will not be taking such actions in this lifetime. GFCI makes sense and have used since they became available here (1978) and long before common elsewhere).

[Pib]

In 37 years have not lost more than a couple phones from lightning strikes and have not noticed any reduction in life of electric/electronic equipment so personally will not be taking such actions in this lifetime. GFCI makes sense and have used since they became available here (1978) and long before common elsewhere).

But how would you really notice if surges/spikes haven't had a detrimental effect on your electronic/electrical devices? I guess a person could say they all continue to work fine until I got rid of them....yes, I would consider that good proof that spikes/surges hadn't got to them but it don't prove surges/spikes wouldn't have damaged them. I'm not talking a lightning event where a device stops working right after the lightning event and a person feels sure it must have been the lighting that took out the device; I'm talking spikes on your line voltage which happen day-in and day-out by man-made reasons/devices. Electronic/electrical devices definitely do not like long or brief (like lightning-induced) surges/spikes...while many devices do have some type of surge protection built-in (usally one or two small MOVs) many don't, and even those that do have some surge protection built-in it's usually on a low scale. Where I mention "long" surges I know MOV can't protect against cases where your line voltage may greatly increase for several 50Hz cylces; I'm talking surges/spikes in the nano/micro/millisecond ballpark which occur from lightning and equipment kicking on and off.

Yes, I know, how could I personally say surges/spikes have had a detrimental effect on my electronic/electric devices? Well, disregarding all the surge protection manufacturer's hype/propaganda which makes their surge protector sound like they can protect against even the most hellish lightning strikes, basic electronics and it's associated formula's will tell a person surges/spikes are not good for electronic devices and can do slow or quick damage. Heck, even surge protectors are rated for X-major surge events because after X-events the probably they will fail is high (but now they usually come with diagnostic lights to tell you if they may have failed or not)....if large surge protectors can fail due to surges/spikes, then our electronic/electrical devices can easily be damaged/fail from surges/spikes.

Surge protectors are basically added protection for your electronic devices...kinda like RCD-devices. In my decades of life only my previous home in the States had a couple of GFCI outlets for one bathroom outlet and two outdoor outlets...no other type of RCD devices. Until I lived in that house, none of my previous houses had any RCD-type protection and me or the family never received any shocks. And only about a month ago did I add two RCBOs for my two heaters and now a couple of GFCI's in my kitchen/utility room area, because I do know there is that low possibility of equipment failure and a shocking event could occur.

And fortunately the few times over my life I have got a shocked (usually while working on a powered-up electrical device) which was powered by non-RCD circuits it just caused me to jerk my hand away. But I do realize there could have been damage/death to my body; just as I realize spikes/surges can cause damage to my electronic devices...damage I have witnessed real time and damage I suspect was caused by repeated low power spikes...hopefully, my whole house surge protector which was easy and cheap to build will help protect and extend the life of my electronic/electrical devices. I definitely know it's not uncommon for my line voltage here in western Bangkok to briefly (half a second) switch on and off every other day or so as the MEA is probably balancing/switching loads around the area and during the rainy season coming up we get some bad, bad thunderstorms....that's enough reasons for me to add surge protection to my home (really nothing more than X-amount of low cost MOVs) with all the high price electronic/electrical equipment we have in our homes today.

For you folks out there who may be wondering what a Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) looks like, the below picture shows what they typically look like. The different size represent the different joules/amps capability....MOVs can come in various colors but are usually brown or blue...the one on the far left is a 4mm in size MOV and the one on the far right a 20mm MOV like I used in my whole house protector and installed in my power strips. The 20mm is literally about the size of a baht coin. For those of you who have bought a surge protector power strip in the several hundred baht ballpark, if you open it up you'll probably see just "one" 10 or 14mm MOV in it connected across the Line-Neutal (L-N) wires...that ain't much protection, but it's definitely better than nothing.

Also, this Link will provide an excellent presentation (layman's version in PDF format) from Eaton on home surge protection...Eaton is a major manufacturer of surge protection devices. And note on slide 11 it shows the insides of a whole house surge protector....the blue things are MOVs....throw in a few LEDs (optional), maybe a couple of thermal fuses (optional), put it in a fancy plastic box, etc., and you have a whole house surge protected which is sold for several hundred dollars. Lots of good info in the presentation and I find slide 6 interesting as it shows where most surges/spikes generate from. Cheers

[lopburi3]

As I said - not in this lifetime - electronics in my experience are much more likely to become outdated by father time than expire from usage.

I agree just my view; but in that view surge protection is not even in the same league with GFCI which this thread is about.

[longball53098]

I am going to continue this topic with a bit of info about Safe T Cut GFCI's and RCD Plugs and my shopping experience.

More than a week ago I had a good voice chat with Khun Pib using Google Talk PC to PC. After the discussion and reading this topic I contacted SafeTCut using first the contact numbers I found on their website for a rep in the Rayong area. The rep is located in the Pattaya area just up the soi from the US VFW Post. Anyway, the rep actually called me and came to my house in Ban Chang. He was not expecting to be asked about these products the GFCI and RCD plugs so he was caught off guard. But after my explanation via my wife and a short visit to the website he knew what I was after. He had to call the BKK office and ask about the product. After the call he explained the items would need to be ordered from BKK and the cost for each was 1,200 each. I gave him a disgruntled look and asked via my wife if this was correct for just the product or if this includes delivery and installation,,,,,,,,he stated that this was product only. I did not approve of the price but when asked if this was "my" cost and that it seems BKK charged another customer about 650 each he said oh could be that BKK charges less. Weak explanation to say the least. As this was late Friday I told him to go ahead and order 2 each and let me know when they arrive next week. The next day we called him to cancel this order and he did not even bat an eye to try to ask why or offer a discount.

So at this point my wife called the lady that runs the small booth where Mr Pib bought his products. I got this number from him the day before. The lady confirmed she has the products and could EMS to me early the next week. The cost for the GFCI receptacles was 650 each and the RCD Plug was 750. She would EMS 2 each GFCI and 1 RCD Plug to me for 2,000 baht. She gave my wife instruction for making payment by bank transfer to Safe T Cut SCB account.

I made the transfer on Sunday and by Wednesday last I received the products. Good deal so far.

Yesterday I decided to open and install one of the GFCIs on an existing outlet on my back deck that we use for an extension cord for hot pots and other misc small appliances. This outlet is already using a Panasonic duplex plug with weather proof cover. It never gets direct rain or splashes but can get sprayed from big rain and wind. I powered it off and removed the plug.

I did my thing and installed the new GFCI as per their diagram clearly showing the input L and N connections as well as E. After connecting I powered it from my panel and got a surprise that it was not working. After looking a bit closer in my diagnosing what may be my incorrect wiring I discovered the "Reset" button did not look normal to me. It appeared that the button was inset way past what I think should be normal. I opened the second unit and compared them and for sure the button had an issue. I used an old power cord and wired up the unit on my work bench to test and found that it would not power up and no attempts to use the button would allow operation. I then wired the second unit to my test cord and it functioned perfectly and I could now see a green LED lit up when the unit was reset. A press of the test button did indeed trip the relay in the unit and a very slight touch of the rest button did in fact reset the unit. So it was very clear that the defective unit reset button was at fault as it was pushed way in to the mount hole and clearly had a problem/

I installed the working unit to the circuit as planned and tested it. No issues and now I have this outlet working as a local GFCI that protects us.

We called the lady today and she said please send the defective unit back. I hope they don't try to say that I broke this button as might be the case. I did nothing except connect the wires and then attempt to press the reset with no more pressure than a slight push.

All in all I like the unit. I think the wire connections are not as positive in their ability to secure the connection but with a bit of torque on the screws they do hold firmly. My Panasonic plugs hold much better.

I also tested the RCD Plug unit with a power cord. I think this will be a nice addition to use on any extension cord I use outdoors as this will make any plug-in GFCI protected. I plan to make up a short cable and plug to attach to the unit. As with most Thai electrical products the plug side of this unit is a Schuko style that needs an adapter to utilize the earth connection. As I understand RCD/GFCI no earth is needed but nice to have.

I hope I have not rambled on here too much but this has been my experience to date. As I know Pib has bought these also maybe he can post a report as to how things went for him. He seems to be very thorough in his reports. For the most part I am pleased with the units I bought.

I am adding an update to this post. Just now the Thai Post man came with a EMS package. Safe T Cut has sent me a new replacement GFCI outlet. We mailed the defective unit on Monday. Can't fault the service and response time. Well done Safe T Cut

[Pib]

Did the replacement come from the Safe-T-Cut Service Center/Factory or did the representative you bought it off of send the replacement? Regardless, that's still a quick turnaround.

[longball53098]

We were directed by the woman that we talked to to send it to the factory(shipping point) where the originals came from. The lady that we originally contacted at the booth only played middle man in the transaction. The bank transfer was to Safe T Cut and the parts came from Safe T Cut and emails of the transaction came from Safe T Cut.

[ianawal]

Following an old thread.... Any update on sourcing PCB or GFCI power outlets in Thailand? I'm in Phuket and can't find any.... Many thanks for any help ????

[longball53098]

22 hours ago, ianawal said:

Following an old thread.... Any update on sourcing PCB or GFCI power outlets in Thailand? I'm in Phuket and can't find any.... Many thanks for any help ????

Contact Safe-T Cut for sales info. I buy directly from the office in BKK via emails with sales.

https://www.safe-t-cut.com/product/gfci/

[Crossy]

Yup ^^^.

 

Also Safe-T-Cut often have booths in malls and shops (Tesco, Homepro) where you can examine the products and order if you wish.