Copycat Businesses

[brit1984]

Oh, please many people in the west start businesses because they have little or no choice as well. Namely -- IMMIGRANTS who don't speak the language well enough to be easily hired or members of minority groups who are discriminated against.

This was certainly not the case in the "West" that I moved to Thailand from earlier this year (2012)

Maybe its changed in the last few months or maybe you are talking about the "West" from a long time ago

[Jingthing]

Oh, please many people in the west start businesses because they have little or no choice as well. Namely -- IMMIGRANTS who don't speak the language well enough to be easily hired or members of minority groups who are discriminated against.

This was certainly not the case in the "West" that I moved to Thailand from earlier this year (2012)

Maybe its changed in the last few months or maybe you are talking about the "West" from a long time ago

Yeah, right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese-American

Many Vietnamese Americans have established businesses in Little Saigons and Chinatowns throughout North America. Indeed, some Vietnamese immigrants, have been highly instrumental in initiating the development and redevelopment of once declining older Chinatowns, as they tend to find themselves attracted to such areas. Like many other immigrant groups, the majority of Vietnamese Americans are small business owners. Throughout the United States, many Vietnamese—especially first or second-generation immigrants—open supermarkets, restaurants, bakeries specializing in bánh mì, beauty salons and barber shops, and auto repair businesses. Restaurants owned by Vietnamese Americans tend to serve ethnic Vietnamese cuisine, Vietnamized Chinese cuisine, or both, popularizing phở and chả giò in the United States.

[brit1984]

Oh, please many people in the west start businesses because they have little or no choice as well. Namely -- IMMIGRANTS who don't speak the language well enough to be easily hired or members of minority groups who are discriminated against.

This was certainly not the case in the "West" that I moved to Thailand from earlier this year (2012)

Maybe its changed in the last few months or maybe you are talking about the "West" from a long time ago

Yeah, right!

http://en.wikipedia....namese-American

Many Vietnamese Americans have established businesses in Little Saigons and Chinatowns throughout North America. Indeed, some Vietnamese immigrants, have been highly instrumental in initiating the development and redevelopment of once declining older Chinatowns, as they tend to find themselves attracted to such areas. Like many other immigrant groups, the majority of Vietnamese Americans are small business owners. Throughout the United States, many Vietnamese—especially first or second-generation immigrants—open supermarkets, restaurants, bakeries specializing in bánh mì, beauty salons and barber shops, and auto repair businesses. Restaurants owned by Vietnamese Americans tend to serve ethnic Vietnamese cuisine, Vietnamized Chinese cuisine, or both, popularizing phở and chả giò in the United States.

...and what makes you think Vietnamese-Americans have no choice but to start their own business?

...regardless, the plight of this small group of immigrants bears little relevance to Berkshire's assertion that people in Thailand are generally more inclined towards entrepreneurship than people in the West due to the lack of a state sponsored social welfare net

Berkshire made a very insightful abstract comparison between the economic systems in Thailand and the West; exceptions to any such generalisations are inevitable but do not disprove the statement (especially as he worded it to allow for exceptions)

There is, of course, no need to make an argument out of this but I am right and you are wrong (just joking, maybe)

[Berkshire]

...and what makes you think Vietnamese-Americans have no choice but to start their own business?

...regardless, the plight of this small group of immigrants bears little relevance to Berkshire's assertion that people in Thailand are generally more inclined towards entrepreneurship than people in the West due to the lack of a state sponsored social welfare net

Berkshire made a very insightful abstract comparison between the economic systems in Thailand and the West; exceptions to any such generalisations are inevitable but do not disprove the statement (especially as he worded it to allow for exceptions)

There is, of course, no need to make an argument out of this but I am right and you are wrong (just joking, maybe)

Thank you, Brit, for clarifying what I said. Surely JT realizes that he's bringing up the exception to the rule. I'm talking about the typical American mindset, not newly arrived immigrants. I stand by my previous assertion.

[Jingthing]

I can't really agree. The idea of opening a small business is ingrained into mainstream American popular culture. The trouble is, it is much harder to actually do than it was decades ago.

[brit1984]

I can't really agree. The idea of opening a small business is ingrained into mainstream American popular culture. The trouble is, it is much harder to actually do than it was decades ago.

I think we are all in agreement actually...

Berkshire made this exact point that it is easier to start a business in Thailand (and I agree with that). However, this alone cannot explain the much greater inclination towards entrepreneurship over here. It is after all not much more difficult, even in the West, to start a business than to gain qualifications and find a salaried job as most people do.

The other major factor, also pointed out by Berkshire, is the absence of a serious social welfare state. If you look in the back of the Economist magazine (or looked before it was banned here) you will see that Thailand has the lowest unemployment rate of all the countries listed; the explanation is that people who can't find a salaried job here can't live on state handouts so they sell meatballs on the street (or whatever business takes their fancy)

[Berkshire]

I can't really agree. The idea of opening a small business is ingrained into mainstream American popular culture. The trouble is, it is much harder to actually do than it was decades ago.

Well that's the point, isn't it, reality vs. people's dreams and aspirations. Perhaps you should reread my previous post and tell me which part you disagree with. I don't recall saying Americans didn't want to own their own businesses.

Another example for you. If I consider all of my friends and family back in the states, very few actually own businesses, yet, nearly all are financially well-off. I'm talking doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc., working in industry or for the feds. Here in Thailand, most of my well-off Thai friends own or are part owner of some sort of business. Even those who have jobs. Of course, the business could just be an apartment building that they rent out to tenants. Has your experience been different?

[mjcmjc]

Many small business owners in Thailand just want to make a few extra baht; they often aren't focused on, or even thinking about, getting rich. Back in the West, setting up a business requires considerable effort on the part of the entrepreneur; here it is very easy so even lazy-minded people (which make up a large proportion of all societies) can be business owners.

Free enterprise, a thing that has died in most of the west. Wife's milk shake bar cost 6000 Baht to set up and makes 300 to 400 profit most days. You would simply not be allowed to use your home to sell milk shakes without local planning approval, health certificates, food handling licenses and of course the tax man wants his cut. Jim

And 2 wash basins, a ramp for the disabled, his and her toilet facilities, a car park area, indemnity insurance, an ethnic minority employee, a lebian employee, and lift icase you build a second floor.

[farang000999]

I totally disagree that opening a small business is ingrained into mainstream America. Young people in America have almost no desire whatsoever to open a small business, with the exception of maybe a restaurant or bar.

They all plan to go to college and get an air conditioned office job after their education is over.

The reason why entrepreneurship appears more common in Thailand is because Thai business is much less efficient than American business and there are much more opportunities for the small businessman. The US has a more advanced economy which is why there are so few small business opportunities but many expats interpret this the opposite, they think because there are more opportunities in Thailand for the little man it means that "Thailand is booming" or that "The Thai economy is superior to the American economy". When you look at photos of the USA from 100 years ago it often looks more developed and better organized than some parts of Thailand 2013.

Advanced economies in 2013 are all suffering the same malaise. Aging populations and low birth rates. This problem will come to Thailand eventually.

[farang000999]

Oh, please many people in the west start businesses because they have little or no choice as well. Namely -- IMMIGRANTS who don't speak the language well enough to be easily hired or members of minority groups who are discriminated against.

This is very silly. To start a restaurant in the West you need to have a very strong understanding of English just to deal with all the regulations. Most of these businesses you see with immigrant workers were setup by a family member or someone else entirely who does speak English and is already established.

This is not 1910 when my grand parents came over from Italy and started a small business w/o ever learning much English.

[spidermike007]

How much truly original thinking do you see here? Very few Thais think outside the box. So, it is easiest to just follow what others have done. What is fascinating is when they follow a poor formula, all the way to being broke. One sees this in Samui, alot. Coffee shops are a good example. Samui is screaming for a great coffee shop, that serves large pots of high quality exotic teas, for a fair price, along with world class desserts. And a great cup of coffee, at a fair price. New coffee shops open all the time, and they assume all we want is a cup of coffee. If they have desserts at all, they have anemic, dried out cakes, and muffins only. Really horrific quality. Items few people would want, and then they say desserts do not sell. What about trying 40-50 different types of really fresh, homemade cookies, pies, pastries, brownies, crepes, cakes, muffins, etc? What about tropical sorbets? What about live jazz? Spoken word? Poetry readings? Culture anybody? A fun place to hang out, that stays open adult hours (past 7 pm!) and is an alternative to the bar scene? Anybody thought of that? A fortune could be made. Many of my friends would spend alot of money there. But, it would take a very sophisticated Thai, who has lived overseas, and actually experienced a coffee shop of this caliber, to get it, and pull it off.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

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