England Squad Confirmed

[LucidLucifer]

Maybe watching the Jubilee and all that flag waving has had a weird nationalistic effect on me.

Edited June 6, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[LucidLucifer]

Can we talk about your midfield now?

No point, we're gonna knock it long over them.....who needs a midfield...

[carmine]

Can we talk about your midfield now?

When we get one, yes.

[MrRed]

"10) Carroll is a brute and has hit form at the right time. He will surely give any centreback pairing a torrid time."

You was doing quite well untill this...so wrong wrong wrong

[StevieH]

Eleven reasons (I tried to find a round dozen but couldn't manage it) to be naively optimistic England will take the Euros by storm:

1) Rooney is world class, is on the back of a good season, and will be well rested.

2) We have great attacking fullbacks in Cole and Johnson.

3) Our centre backs are solid, Terry's experience makes up for his diminshing powers.

4) Hodgson will have them well organised.

5) Expectations are low this time, that will alleviate some of the pressure on the players.

6) We have a mix of players on their last swansong for the national team, and others that are eager to make a name for themselves. All will be hungry.

7) In Joe Hart we have one of the most promising young keepers in Europe, and certainly our best for years.

8) We have the speed and energy to counter attack. Welbeck, Young, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain would worry any defender. That will suit our style of play.

9) Not since Gazza in Italia '90, and Owen in France '98, have we had a player that has the ability to take the tournament by storm, in Chamberlain, we may just have that now.

10) Carroll is a brute and has hit form at the right time. He will surely give any centreback pairing a torrid time.

11) Chelsea have given us a template to follow.

Now shoot me down in flames and burst my bubble.......or alternatively, you could join me in my daydream and add some of your own.

all mostly fair comment i think. if perhaps a little overly optimistic.

re 10) i don't think hodgson's tactics will be such that they get the best out of carroll and the way he ended the season. needs players buzzing off him and close to him and i think england will play too deep and defensive for that.

[LucidLucifer]

"10) Carroll is a brute and has hit form at the right time. He will surely give any centreback pairing a torrid time."

You was doing quite well untill this...so wrong wrong wrong

I'm happy to admit, I was scratching around for things by the time I reached number 10, although #11, the Chelsea one is relevent.

Edited June 6, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[Razzler1973]

Gerrard is woefully out of form for months now yet no one in the media seems to pick up on it. I am not confident of him being in a midfield two at the best of times with his positional indiscipline but at least that was a pay off for his attacking threat. Not seen much of that for ages :/

28 games (7 as sub) 9 goals, 5 assists. Not that bad really, especially when you consider how crap Liverpool have been this season.

Compare it to Yaya Toure, acclaimed as one of the players of the season, playing in a free scoring, championship winning side. 32 games, 6 goals, 6 assists.

Gerrard is past his prime, I won't argue with you there, but it's not quite time to write him off.

Stats can be dangerous. You can't compare the influence Yaya has had on City's team compared to Gerrard/Liverpool. Liverpool have been awful, no question but the games in which Gerrard stands out nowadays are few and far between to the point of being annoymous in a lot of them.

Add to that playing a bit deeper meaning he cannot engage his brain to do anything other than hit a long ball time and time again. He is one of the worst offenders for giving the ball away. To use stats have you seen the stats for games won with/without him for Liverpool? Something like 2 with and 12 without? Not to mention the lowering of the rest of the midfields tackling and interception stats when he plays.

I'd have Lampard start ahead of him but with Gerrard captain it wasn't going to happen and that's before Lampard's injury. He's very below par atm for me but we really don't have too many other options. I don't think he can influence a game the way he used to.

Had a big game against Everton, off the bench vs Newcastle about Xmas .. .perhaps 1 or 2 others where he stood out but other than that ... meh.

I'd be happier if we were not playing 4-4-2 with Gerrard in the middle but this is what Hodgson is doing by the looks of it.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Razzler1973

[Razzler1973]

The 'expectations are so low that I am starting to get optimistic' line is getting ridiculously close to full on optimism

Nothing wrong with optimism but I think if we can keep 2 clean sheets out of 3 then we have a great chance of going through. Ukraine have lost all their friendlies I believe leading into this. Every country we play we elevate their players to world beating levels. If we have our wits about us and play well we certainly have enough to beat both Sweden and Ukraine for goodness sake it's just them not crumbling into the heap in panic with the ball at their feet.

I think we can give France a decent game. I'd like to see the quicker wide players in Ox and/or Walcott given a chance and to actually be in the game but I expect he will start Milner on one side for a bit of a solid defending and to keep a shape. I think I'd start Welbeck for his mobilty and have Carroll on the bench for later on.

French defence isn't the best and have all that attacking talent but don't always fire. Beating Estonia doesn't change much. I'd love an edgy, nervous 0-0 draw as no one likes to lose the opening game so if we keep our concentration it'd be lovely to pick up a point but if not we should be able to beat Sweden although they may have 3 points under their belts already from the Ukraine game

[RichBKK]

If your going to critise Get it right RICH Ferdinand and Richards didnt ask not to be considered, Hodgson just didnt pic them and carrick told capello that he didnt want to b considered. But I know where play wise your coming from perhaps a touch more mobilty is needed, Barry believe it or not, was good at instigating and keeping things flowing ,losing him IS A BLOW next time u watch man city see how many moves from defence he starts and how up field he keeps things going, bit like parker for spurs And having Henderson is now looking like a major mistake but <deleted>, Hodgson has won his opening 2 games against reasonable opposition and not conceded a goal, lets be happy about it, forget our doubts, stop knocking him and get behind him and the team

Just dont like the fella, dont like his methods, they are outdated and dont make adequate use of some reasonable attacking players. We spend most of the time camped in our own half even against very moderate teams. He does have issues with man management as we have already seen, sometimes you cant afford to close the door on players

the key though with Roy's tactics is not to concede. We concede, we are in the shit. One thing though is that the defence is even with the change in personnel we have seen, is actually reasonably well stocked with decent players who know what they are doing, so against certain sides he may be ok

france though will be a more tricky affair. Dont envisage us working their defence except via set pieces, a 0-0 draw Hodgson would take with open arms

he gets that, then maybe he might grind us to a respectable showing in the tournament, but for me its either a shaky 0-0 or a bit of a 2-3-0 shoeing in that one

I hope he does well like, but for me he shouldnt be in the job anyway and as a top flight manager hes not up to scratch. I hope I end up wrong, it is possible I suppose, greece in 2004 were an example that boring defensive tactics can work on certain rare occasions. But some of Englands attacking players perhaps deserve a bit more opportunity to have a chance to shine, rather than be there simply to snatch a breakaway goal or a half chance

Having said that, there is a huge gap beween the midfield and the forward players in his set up, someone like Rooney when he becomes available may drop off and help link up the play a lot better. Just we had better hope by then its not already a lost cause aka Euro 88 by then

[rijit]

So it now come's out that Richards didn't want to be on the stand by list,well if I were roy ,that would be the end of this England career unless he came and eat big lumps of humble pie, even then ide have doubts. And Lucid I'm glad to hear some optimism But One thing ive noticed ,is Ashley cole 100% aint the attacking wing bac he was 2 seasons ago watch him, he dont make those penetrating runs that he used 2. Ive spoken to Chelsea fans about it and they blamed villa boas but dont think it was his fault,maybe injuries caught up with him? not sure. Cole From what i've seen defensively he can be got at, and I wouldn't quite say he going to be a liability-- But if i were an opposing manager I'de be lookin to get at him with some pace , cos beat him and he has a habit of reacting nastily, he's got away with it up 2 now and lets hope he carries on doing so.

[davejonesbkk]

So I see its back to the usual ways of England destroying themselves via the media etc etc before a single game has been playes and we have the typical 'player power' nonsense with idiots like Rio Ferdinand spitting their dummy out on Twitter and the press getting all over it.....I really cant wait until this 'golden generation' have well and truly p*ssed off

As for our first game against France, did anyone see their friendly against Estonia?? Sweet mary and jesus we are totally screwed, those guys were scoring for fun....

[smokie36]

So I see its back to the usual ways of England destroying themselves via the media etc etc before a single game has been playes and we have the typical 'player power' nonsense with idiots like Rio Ferdinand spitting their dummy out on Twitter and the press getting all over it.....I really cant wait until this 'golden generation' have well and truly p*ssed off

As for our first game against France, did anyone see their friendly against Estonia?? Sweet mary and jesus we are totally screwed, those guys were scoring for fun....

Agree 100% with your golden generation comment!

[Razzler1973]

This is particularly snide from Rio and I am surprised. His comment on Twitter using the same terminology as Hodgson's 'footballing reasons' is pathetic. He knows exactly the reaction. Whether it's football reasons or because of the John Terry issue then I don't see a problem. Now Hodgson will face questions about this again instead of football and I am sure he can explain which player is covering where but he doesn't need to explain. Decision is made.

If he thinks Terry is better and Rio is injury prone then so be it. If Rio started a game and came off at half time a la Ledley King at the last World Cup everyone would be up in arms 'how can we take an injury prone player' 'why don't we give up and comers a chance, they are the future' etc and if it got injured and missed the start of the new season you wouldn't hear the end of it from United fans or Fergie.

If there is potentially an issue with him and Terry being in the squad together and it may disrupt things or change other players' behaviour towards Terry then leave Rio out. Terry is more likely to be involved with the World Cup campaign and I doubt Rio will go beyond this tournament and if he wants to who knows when the next injury will come. Terry makes more sense and is also not guilty yet. If he's guilty then deal with that then and we have Cahill, Lescott and Jagielka going forward.

Players have been called up from the back up list. Rio wasn't on that back up list. Why was he not bothered about not being on the back up list behind all the other players? He expects to not be on the back list yet get called up ahead of those that are on it, that are more prepared?

He's been deliberate in what he's done on Twitter and it's related to Terry/his brother. All this talk about respect for Rio how about a little respect from him towards his England team mates' preparation and towards the Manager?

Played his last game for England imo

[carmine]

This is particularly snide from Rio and I am surprised. His comment on Twitter using the same terminology as Hodgson's 'footballing reasons' is pathetic. He knows exactly the reaction. Whether it's football reasons or because of the John Terry issue then I don't see a problem. Now Hodgson will face questions about this again instead of football and I am sure he can explain which player is covering where but he doesn't need to explain. Decision is made.

If he thinks Terry is better and Rio is injury prone then so be it. If Rio started a game and came off at half time a la Ledley King at the last World Cup everyone would be up in arms 'how can we take an injury prone player' 'why don't we give up and comers a chance, they are the future' etc and if it got injured and missed the start of the new season you wouldn't hear the end of it from United fans or Fergie.

If there is potentially an issue with him and Terry being in the squad together and it may disrupt things or change other players' behaviour towards Terry then leave Rio out. Terry is more likely to be involved with the World Cup campaign and I doubt Rio will go beyond this tournament and if he wants to who knows when the next injury will come. Terry makes more sense and is also not guilty yet. If he's guilty then deal with that then and we have Cahill, Lescott and Jagielka going forward.

Players have been called up from the back up list. Rio wasn't on that back up list. Why was he not bothered about not being on the back up list behind all the other players? He expects to not be on the back list yet get called up ahead of those that are on it, that are more prepared?

He's been deliberate in what he's done on Twitter and it's related to Terry/his brother. All this talk about respect for Rio how about a little respect from him towards his England team mates' preparation and towards the Manager?

Played his last game for England imo

I thought Cahill has been ruled out.

[MrRed]

This is particularly snide from Rio and I am surprised. His comment on Twitter using the same terminology as Hodgson's 'footballing reasons' is pathetic. He knows exactly the reaction. Whether it's football reasons or because of the John Terry issue then I don't see a problem. Now Hodgson will face questions about this again instead of football and I am sure he can explain which player is covering where but he doesn't need to explain. Decision is made.

If he thinks Terry is better and Rio is injury prone then so be it. If Rio started a game and came off at half time a la Ledley King at the last World Cup everyone would be up in arms 'how can we take an injury prone player' 'why don't we give up and comers a chance, they are the future' etc and if it got injured and missed the start of the new season you wouldn't hear the end of it from United fans or Fergie.

If there is potentially an issue with him and Terry being in the squad together and it may disrupt things or change other players' behaviour towards Terry then leave Rio out. Terry is more likely to be involved with the World Cup campaign and I doubt Rio will go beyond this tournament and if he wants to who knows when the next injury will come. Terry makes more sense and is also not guilty yet. If he's guilty then deal with that then and we have Cahill, Lescott and Jagielka going forward.

Players have been called up from the back up list. Rio wasn't on that back up list. Why was he not bothered about not being on the back up list behind all the other players? He expects to not be on the back list yet get called up ahead of those that are on it, that are more prepared?

He's been deliberate in what he's done on Twitter and it's related to Terry/his brother. All this talk about respect for Rio how about a little respect from him towards his England team mates' preparation and towards the Manager?

Played his last game for England imo

Ferdinand does have a point if he has been overlooked to do with the pending trial of John Terry you cannot ignore that fact and to be replacing CAHILL with Kelly is wrong because Terry himself is struggling with a recurring hamstring injury,thus leaving us 2 centre halfs!!

Ferdinand has come out and said he is 100% behind the boys and will be in a pub somewhere cheering them on.

The FA is at fault here not Ferdinand

[Razzler1973]

Yeah, Cahill is out I just meant we don't need to hang John Terry out to dry right now. He's an odious man, not very likeable and he's been accused of something but not guilty yet. If Terry is found guilty and it's decided OMG he can't play for England ever again then we have Lescott, Cahill and Jags going forward for future England duty.

Not for this tournament, we still have Terry, Lescott and Jags for this, of course

[carmine]

Yeah, Cahill is out I just meant we don't need to hang John Terry out to dry right now. He's an odious man, not very likeable and he's been accused of something but not guilty yet. If Terry is found guilty and it's decided OMG he can't play for England ever again then we have Lescott, Cahill and Jags going forward for future England duty.

Not for this tournament, we still have Terry, Lescott and Jags for this, of course

I wouldn't start a game with Terry. Whether he is fully fit or not is irrelevent to me, he's just not good enough.

i do agree with you that ferdinand should have more respect for the england team and button it. He might well think he's been hard done by but he should save his comments untill after the tournament.

It doesn't help his cause one little bit in my book also when he is being championed by a vile, no good, treacherous, lying scumbag like Sol Campbell.

[Razzler1973]

This is particularly snide from Rio and I am surprised. His comment on Twitter using the same terminology as Hodgson's 'footballing reasons' is pathetic. He knows exactly the reaction. Whether it's football reasons or because of the John Terry issue then I don't see a problem. Now Hodgson will face questions about this again instead of football and I am sure he can explain which player is covering where but he doesn't need to explain. Decision is made.

If he thinks Terry is better and Rio is injury prone then so be it. If Rio started a game and came off at half time a la Ledley King at the last World Cup everyone would be up in arms 'how can we take an injury prone player' 'why don't we give up and comers a chance, they are the future' etc and if it got injured and missed the start of the new season you wouldn't hear the end of it from United fans or Fergie.

If there is potentially an issue with him and Terry being in the squad together and it may disrupt things or change other players' behaviour towards Terry then leave Rio out. Terry is more likely to be involved with the World Cup campaign and I doubt Rio will go beyond this tournament and if he wants to who knows when the next injury will come. Terry makes more sense and is also not guilty yet. If he's guilty then deal with that then and we have Cahill, Lescott and Jagielka going forward.

Players have been called up from the back up list. Rio wasn't on that back up list. Why was he not bothered about not being on the back up list behind all the other players? He expects to not be on the back list yet get called up ahead of those that are on it, that are more prepared?

He's been deliberate in what he's done on Twitter and it's related to Terry/his brother. All this talk about respect for Rio how about a little respect from him towards his England team mates' preparation and towards the Manager?

Played his last game for England imo

Ferdinand does have a point if he has been overlooked to do with the pending trial of John Terry you cannot ignore that fact and to be replacing CAHILL with Kelly is wrong because Terry himself is struggling with a recurring hamstring injury,thus leaving us 2 centre halfs!!

Ferdinand has come out and said he is 100% behind the boys and will be in a pub somewhere cheering them on.

The FA is at fault here not Ferdinand

Hodgson didn't create a problem, he's dealing with one.

Rio is not a starter. Do we need this agro for a back up player? A back up player that wasn't concerned about not being listed as a back up player?

Rio's team mates may treat Terry differently when Rio is there. Hodgson is dealing with an issue and I think this is the way that makes the most sense. Having them both in the squad is probably not wise for whatever reason. You can't take Rio and then when he steps down after the tournament and then say 'hey, Terry ... come back in the squad now'.

It makes sense for Rio to be left out and even for footballing reasons, he wasn't on the back up list. We have cover in all positions without him.

Terry is fine, he trained, there's no issues it's the media making a big deal out of it to keep the Rio left out stuff on the boil.

We love a bit of drama, don't we? Can't go into a tournament just normal

[carmine]

This is particularly snide from Rio and I am surprised. His comment on Twitter using the same terminology as Hodgson's 'footballing reasons' is pathetic. He knows exactly the reaction. Whether it's football reasons or because of the John Terry issue then I don't see a problem. Now Hodgson will face questions about this again instead of football and I am sure he can explain which player is covering where but he doesn't need to explain. Decision is made.

If he thinks Terry is better and Rio is injury prone then so be it. If Rio started a game and came off at half time a la Ledley King at the last World Cup everyone would be up in arms 'how can we take an injury prone player' 'why don't we give up and comers a chance, they are the future' etc and if it got injured and missed the start of the new season you wouldn't hear the end of it from United fans or Fergie.

If there is potentially an issue with him and Terry being in the squad together and it may disrupt things or change other players' behaviour towards Terry then leave Rio out. Terry is more likely to be involved with the World Cup campaign and I doubt Rio will go beyond this tournament and if he wants to who knows when the next injury will come. Terry makes more sense and is also not guilty yet. If he's guilty then deal with that then and we have Cahill, Lescott and Jagielka going forward.

Players have been called up from the back up list. Rio wasn't on that back up list. Why was he not bothered about not being on the back up list behind all the other players? He expects to not be on the back list yet get called up ahead of those that are on it, that are more prepared?

He's been deliberate in what he's done on Twitter and it's related to Terry/his brother. All this talk about respect for Rio how about a little respect from him towards his England team mates' preparation and towards the Manager?

Played his last game for England imo

Ferdinand does have a point if he has been overlooked to do with the pending trial of John Terry you cannot ignore that fact and to be replacing CAHILL with Kelly is wrong because Terry himself is struggling with a recurring hamstring injury,thus leaving us 2 centre halfs!!

Ferdinand has come out and said he is 100% behind the boys and will be in a pub somewhere cheering them on.

The FA is at fault here not Ferdinand

Replacing Cahill with Kelly is laughable yes but Ferdinand should still drop it until after the tournament. He'll probably have to stand in line to have his pop at Roy anyway.

[MrRed]

I understand your point but hopefully these younger players will be more for our future defence.

Walker

Smalling

Jones

Caulker

Richards

Kelly

[Razzler1973]

Yeah, Cahill is out I just meant we don't need to hang John Terry out to dry right now. He's an odious man, not very likeable and he's been accused of something but not guilty yet. If Terry is found guilty and it's decided OMG he can't play for England ever again then we have Lescott, Cahill and Jags going forward for future England duty.

Not for this tournament, we still have Terry, Lescott and Jags for this, of course

I wouldn't start a game with Terry. Whether he is fully fit or not is irrelevent to me, he's just not good enough.

i do agree with you that ferdinand should have more respect for the england team and button it. He might well think he's been hard done by but he should save his comments untill after the tournament.

It doesn't help his cause one little bit in my book also when he is being championed by a vile, no good, treacherous, lying scumbag like Sol Campbell.

Lescott/Jagielka have performed well together but Terry is still a good centre back (horror show vs Liverpool at the end of the season aside). People have strong opinions about Terry and dislike him.

Now we have to listen to this guy, that guy offering their opinions on Rio/Terry again. Sven is talking, Robbie Fowler (who cares), Campbell, David Pleat, John Barnes. I don't understand how Rio can be so annoyed when he wasn't listed as a back up player and this didn't seem to bother him at all. He wasn't worried about other players ahead of him in the pecking order at that point.

He has created this and dragged up the racism thing within the camp again for no reason whatsoever, that was on the back burner before this and he's not stupid when it comes to Twitter, he knows what he's doing. Pretty sure the comments from his agent and 'friends' have been OK'd by him too, all this 'morally disgraceful'.

I fully expect Hodgson to stick to his football reasons in his press conference today, explain Kelly has been with the squad already and prepared to join up as was on the back up list (not like Rio and working out in his home made gym as his press buddies would tell us, bit different). Jones is covering Parker in midfield and potentially centre back too as well as right back. Glen Johnson has a ropey toe and had injections before matches for Liverpool, if something happens then we only have Jones as cover ... if something then happened to midfield places like Parker we may need Jones there which would leave us without proper right back cover.

There is enough of a explanation available for it to genuinely be footballing reasons that he is left out but add to that his age and injury record. He's played 18 of the last 20 as United did hopeless in Europe and weren't playing 2 games a week like they usually are at the end of a season. Even if it is a squad harmony decision then I'd still support him being left out but the fact is guaranteed Hodgson will stick to football reasons but Rio has got this all dragged up again ahead of the trial and before a tournament ... well done, Rio. Very selfish

[MrRed]

If you think it was Hodgson's decision alone then my friend you are deluded.

The FA have made this stance from the beginning that is why it could not of been changed, personally i would of left both out.

And as you said we do have younger players who could of gained experience for the future.

[Abrak]

Only England could focus the build up of a major tournament on a debate about whether Rio Ferdinand should spend the Euros sitting on the bench or not.

And then we have the Guardian who ratchets the argument up a notch through the intellect of Sol Campbell. 'And if it is ever proven true that John Terry was chosen over Rio because of race then I would tell the FA that they can take back my 73 caps and scrub my name out of the record books.' Yeah that's right.... John Terry chosen because he was white and Ferdinand left out because he was black. Now there's a conspiracy.

[plopmeister]

Only England could focus the build up of a major tournament on a debate about whether Rio Ferdinand should spend the Euros sitting on the bench or not.

And then we have the Guardian who ratchets the argument up a notch through the intellect of Sol Campbell. 'And if it is ever proven true that John Terry was chosen over Rio because of race then I would tell the FA that they can take back my 73 caps and scrub my name out of the record books.' Yeah that's right.... John Terry chosen because he was white and Ferdinand left out because he was black. Now there's a conspiracy.

Exactly, IF one was chosen over the other due to race then obviously Ferdinand would be there and Terry sitting at home...

[LucidLucifer]

Only England could focus the build up of a major tournament on a debate about whether Rio Ferdinand should spend the Euros sitting on the bench or not.

And then we have the Guardian who ratchets the argument up a notch through the intellect of Sol Campbell. 'And if it is ever proven true that John Terry was chosen over Rio because of race then I would tell the FA that they can take back my 73 caps and scrub my name out of the record books.' Yeah that's right.... John Terry chosen because he was white and Ferdinand left out because he was black. Now there's a conspiracy.

Maybe there is something in.....nobody else can fathom why the fuc_k Downing and Kelly have been picked....maybe 'cause they is white......

It's as good an explanation as any.....

Edited June 7, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[carmine]

Only England could focus the build up of a major tournament on a debate about whether Rio Ferdinand should spend the Euros sitting on the bench or not.

And then we have the Guardian who ratchets the argument up a notch through the intellect of Sol Campbell. 'And if it is ever proven true that John Terry was chosen over Rio because of race then I would tell the FA that they can take back my 73 caps and scrub my name out of the record books.' Yeah that's right.... John Terry chosen because he was white and Ferdinand left out because he was black. Now there's a conspiracy.

Maybe there is something in.....nobody else can fathom why the fuc_k Downing and Kelly have been picked....maybe 'cause they is white......

It's as good an explanation as any.....

The reason is that rightly or wrongly they have been deemed the best of a very average buch of overpaid primadonas. ( and i don't mean expensive kebabs, smokie!)

[Razzler1973]

If you think it was Hodgson's decision alone then my friend you are deluded.

The FA have made this stance from the beginning that is why it could not of been changed, personally i would of left both out.

And as you said we do have younger players who could of gained experience for the future.

Well, that's the thing. We don't really know what the deal is with the FA. I seem to remember the QPR/City handshake being called off and Anton Ferdinand consulting his lawyer to see if there are legal implications in shaking hands (say what now?!) ... I assume is this somewhat implying ' it's all ok' by doing that. Anyway, was called off, could be a mess. What kind of mess, legal or otherwise would Rio in the squad be then?

Maybe it is the FA, maybe it's Hodgson and he's used 'footballing reasons' to be diplomatic. Usually it will be left at that but this has dragged it up. I am sure Hodge can defending his footballing reasons if he needs to but it shouldn't have come to this. He's either been diplomatic or his hands are tied and everyone involved no doubt knows that ... yet Ferdinand drags it all up.

Hodgson may well have footballing reasons and why not have some younger players in like Jones who are more versatile. We moan enough about taking the same ol same players and now we're moaning cause one of the oldest and most injury prone won't be able to sit on the bench after not being included on the stand by list!

This is all going to reach super nova around the trial too but at least the football will be finished

[Abrak]

Doesnt actually seem much interest in who is actually going to be picked on Monday.

Looks like Downing is going to start (he is 1/4 on).

Up front Welbeck is slight favorite to start up front ahead of Carroll.

[LucidLucifer]

Doesnt actually seem much interest in who is actually going to be picked on Monday.

Looks like Downing is going to start (he is 1/4 on).

Up front Welbeck is slight favorite to start up front ahead of Carroll.

Hart

Johnson Lescott Terry Cole

Milner Parker Gerrard Downing

Welbeck Young

Not my first XI I hasten to add, just who I can see getting the nod.

[carmine]

Doesnt actually seem much interest in who is actually going to be picked on Monday.

Looks like Downing is going to start (he is 1/4 on).

Up front Welbeck is slight favorite to start up front ahead of Carroll.

Hart

Johnson Lescott Terry Cole

Milner Parker Gerrard Downing

Welbeck Young

Not my first XI I hasten to add, just who I can see getting the nod.

Fair shout, and if not i doubt it'll be much different