About Fingerprints For Pr

[sanitex]

hello guys

it hapens to me today my immigration officcer called me for an interview with my partner though i was optimistic that

everything was fine without knowing that there's a problem in-between my previous passport.though that was 1999 when i came here new with impersonation i was cought during my embarkation by the immigration officer at the old airport and i settle them with fine of 200,000baht then.

so today during the interview they brought the file and my answer was yes i did but it was an officer that help me too and was told that no problem and let me leave the same day so how come they still kept my fingerprint on data base. though all understood me but tell me to cancel the application at the moment then find way to go and look for any alternative to remove my fingerprint datas that they will help me on their own side so that i'll continue with my a year visa untill a change it.

i used south african passport before change to my original west african passport.

so my question is does anyone know whom to contact or what to do about this? please help if you can, just your sugestion

[jamescollister]

Don't follow all of what you are saying, but chances are if you were finger printed for a bad passport your prints are now on every finger print data base in the computerize world. Jim

[Mario2008]

Get a good lawyer, who can advise you about your legal options.

[Colabamumbai]

Sounds like they took advantage of you big time, took your money and put you in the database also, and maybe you thought the payment was going to prevent this. None of my business but maybe you were using a false or stolen passport and they already had the number in their computers You do mention "impersonation" so you were pretending to be someone you were not, if I read correctly.

As mentioned talk with 2 or 3 lawyers and see what they say. If you are in Korat I can recommend a Canadian Lawyer for you.

[sanitex]

mario2008/Colabam thanks for your urgent advice anyway is not that It was a stolen or false or whatever but it just that Thai immigration usual intimidate foreigner in times of passport. but remember I obtain this passport by myself from my friend in south African before coming to here ,but then in my country there's no Thai embassy that was the reason .

Anyway intimes of contacting a lawyer it's very imperative for me and also the trust to avoid more problem they may create, cause some might like to ask big money if I didn't cooperate they can start threating by telling you this is a very big case.

But my wife is contacting their police friend in what to do on it, even my immigration officer told me to be careful whom to talk with to avoid more hearsay . Pls more advice need sleepless tonight

Sani

[CiaranO]

i was going to comment but i cant make head nor tail of any of this.....

[sanitex]

Colabam, I live in Bangkok but do u think that contacting a lawyer can help in this issue than police ?

[Mario2008]

The only advise you can get here is legal advise. If you seek other possibilities, outside the law, our forum rules do not permit discussing that.

[sanitex]

Mario thank you I really understood your point but u knew when someone is in this kind of predicament his or her sense of view will be running like Russian rullercoaster, believe me this night is like to jump from condo and commit sucide ,had I knew I wouldn't have apply for this PR.

[Colabamumbai]

Colabam, I live in Bangkok but do u think that contacting a lawyer can help in this issue than police ?

Google Isaan Lawyers......They do have another name, can't remember offhand. Sebastian is the Canadian Lawyer, just a moment I will look for his number....Here it is www.isaanlawyers.com. Tel:

044-245001. You have nothing to lose, he will at least give you a free consulatation,, as has been my experience with him. Honest and up front, as much as lawyers can be. His office is staffed by Thai lawyers. Fax 044-245265. I suggest a phone call and ask to speak to him personally.

You can tell him you spoke to Alex, a Canadian, to get his name. He helped me get my first work permit and with divorce questions. 358 Pho Klang St. Amphur Muang, Nakhon Ratchasima, Thailand 3000. Also he may be able to recommend someone in Bangkok for you.

[Baerboxer]

mario2008/Colabam thanks for your urgent advice anyway is not that It was a stolen or false or whatever but it just that Thai immigration usual intimidate foreigner in times of passport. but remember I obtain this passport by myself from my friend in south African before coming to here ,but then in my country there's no Thai embassy that was the reason .

Anyway intimes of contacting a lawyer it's very imperative for me and also the trust to avoid more problem they may create, cause some might like to ask big money if I didn't cooperate they can start threating by telling you this is a very big case.

But my wife is contacting their police friend in what to do on it, even my immigration officer told me to be careful whom to talk with to avoid more hearsay . Pls more advice need sleepless tonight

Sani

I'm sorry to hear about your predicament. One question. Were you legally entitled to a South African passport and was this obtained legitimately in your own name and identity?

[david555]

Bad habit in W Africa "borrowing " passports ....see a lot of them in my job before ...now retired ....!

worked before a few months in Lagos ....

Nigerians when looking for visa in Europe are ALL directed to ask in The UK Thai Embassy ...(i wonder why )

[lopburi3]

I obtain this passport by myself from my friend in south African before coming to here ,but then in my country there's no Thai embassy that was the reason .

This appears to read as he used someone else's passport for entry and was found out on exit and because finger prints taken at that time have now been linked to his current PR application he is attempting to find a means to remove them from legal records in case they could have a negative effect on future processing.

My guess is that any effect has occurred and the honest explanation will have more effect that a search for legal cause to remove from records.

[BWPattaya]

It is a bit difficult to understand from just reading your initial post. Can I clarify?

1: You are applying for Permanat Residence and the immigration officer brought up your file.

2: You were leaving via Don Muang airport in 1999 using a false passport (South African?)

3: The immigration officer (in 1999) let you leave after paying 200,000 Bt. They also took copies of your fingerprints.

4: You come back to Thailand with a different country's passport and apply for PR.

5: Now they match your fingerprints to your previous offence of using a false passport, or at least one that doesn't belong to you.

What do you want a lawyer to do for you?

[Arkady]

It is a bit difficult to understand from just reading your initial post. Can I clarify?

1: You are applying for Permanat Residence and the immigration officer brought up your file.

2: You were leaving via Don Muang airport in 1999 using a false passport (South African?)

3: The immigration officer (in 1999) let you leave after paying 200,000 Bt. They also took copies of your fingerprints.

4: You come back to Thailand with a different country's passport and apply for PR.

5: Now they match your fingerprints to your previous offence of using a false passport, or at least one that doesn't belong to you.

What do you want a lawyer to do for you?

It's too late know but you should have known that applying for either PR or Thai citizenship is going to result in rigorous investigation of your background by various Thai government agencies to ensure no criminal or political (communist) background. Several people I know have been caught out in this process for things like not having a second job recorded on their work permit. Even getting big shot police or army to help them with Immigration didn't save their PR applications. Their only choice was to cancel their PR applications and apply again after getting the right documents for their situation. If they refused to cancel the application they would have ended up in court being prosecuted for a criminal offence.

I have heard of people who have paid bribes to police to cancel criminal records for things like drunk driving or gambling but I really doubt that the police do anything at all in these cases, except take the cash. Someone on TV complained that his Thai wife paid small money to local police to avoid a criminal record for being caught playing cards in her own house in a village. Years later the offence showed up when she applied to the US Embassy for a visa to go and live with her new American husband in the US. No new life for her but the policeman got to keep the 500 baht bribe.

In your case paying the bribe of B200k obviously worked quite well because it appears you were guilty of a serious criminal offence of entering Thailand under a false passport and identity for which you could have been imprisoned in Thailand for several years and they would have stolen any cash you had on you at the time. You would also have been deported to your real country of origin after finishing your sentence and probably blacklisted for life by Thai Immigration. Instead it seems you got your money's worth. You avoided prison, theft, deportation and blacklisting and you've presumably been allowed to stay and work in Thailand for many years and now have a Thai wife. The bribe kept you off the blacklist but didn't stop your finger prints from going into the police database which was probably a wise precaution by the Immigration officers. If you had committed a further criminal offence in Thailand there might have been questions raised as to why the officers failed to record your fingerprints. Although the officer in charge at the airport probably has some discretion to let visa offenders leave the country without arrest, the Thai police are fanatic about their fingerprint database, as they still don't have anything much more high tech than that, and questions might have been asked from high up as to why your fingerprints were discarded.

As others have suggested you should see a lawyer who has experience and good contacts with Immigration. My guess is that should be able to resolve the matter by cancelling your PR application and never applying again for that or Thai citizenship. Since your past offence was a criminal matter, you may find you are asked for some more tea money for Immigration to let it go at that without deportation, blacklisting and/or prosecution. I doubt that you can pay any money to get your fingerprint record from 1999 deleted from the police database. B200k didn't do it in 1999 and now a match has been made. Also PR applications have to be approved by the National Intelligence Agency as well as the office of the National Police Chief, both of whom need a clean bill of health from the Police Criminal Records Dept and Thai Interpol and that seems to be where you have been caught out. Foreigners in Thailand only have to supply fingerprints to apply for PR and citizenship and if they are arrested on suspicion of committing a criminal offence. If you don't do any of those things, you will probably be OK.

[nosatisfaction]

It is a bit difficult to understand from just reading your initial post. Can I clarify?

1: You are applying for Permanat Residence and the immigration officer brought up your file.

2: You were leaving via Don Muang airport in 1999 using a false passport (South African?)

3: The immigration officer (in 1999) let you leave after paying 200,000 Bt. They also took copies of your fingerprints.

4: You come back to Thailand with a different country's passport and apply for PR.

5: Now they match your fingerprints to your previous offence of using a false passport, or at least one that doesn't belong to you.

What do you want a lawyer to do for you?

It's too late know but you should have known that applying for either PR or Thai citizenship is going to result in rigorous investigation of your background by various Thai government agencies to ensure no criminal or political (communist) background. Several people I know have been caught out in this process for things like not having a second job recorded on their work permit. Even getting big shot police or army to help them with Immigration didn't save their PR applications. Their only choice was to cancel their PR applications and apply again after getting the right documents for their situation. If they refused to cancel the application they would have ended up in court being prosecuted for a criminal offence.

I have heard of people who have paid bribes to police to cancel criminal records for things like drunk driving or gambling but I really doubt that the police do anything at all in these cases, except take the cash. Someone on TV complained that his Thai wife paid small money to local police to avoid a criminal record for being caught playing cards in her own house in a village. Years later the offence showed up when she applied to the US Embassy for a visa to go and live with her new American husband in the US. No new life for her but the policeman got to keep the 500 baht bribe.

In your case paying the bribe of B200k obviously worked quite well because it appears you were guilty of a serious criminal offence of entering Thailand under a false passport and identity for which you could have been imprisoned in Thailand for several years and they would have stolen any cash you had on you at the time. You would also have been deported to your real country of origin after finishing your sentence and probably blacklisted for life by Thai Immigration. Instead it seems you got your money's worth. You avoided prison, theft, deportation and blacklisting and you've presumably been allowed to stay and work in Thailand for many years and now have a Thai wife. The bribe kept you off the blacklist but didn't stop your finger prints from going into the police database which was probably a wise precaution by the Immigration officers. If you had committed a further criminal offence in Thailand there might have been questions raised as to why the officers failed to record your fingerprints. Although the officer in charge at the airport probably has some discretion to let visa offenders leave the country without arrest, the Thai police are fanatic about their fingerprint database, as they still don't have anything much more high tech than that, and questions might have been asked from high up as to why your fingerprints were discarded.

As others have suggested you should see a lawyer who has experience and good contacts with Immigration. My guess is that should be able to resolve the matter by cancelling your PR application and never applying again for that or Thai citizenship. Since your past offence was a criminal matter, you may find you are asked for some more tea money for Immigration to let it go at that without deportation, blacklisting and/or prosecution. I doubt that you can pay any money to get your fingerprint record from 1999 deleted from the police database. B200k didn't do it in 1999 and now a match has been made. Also PR applications have to be approved by the National Intelligence Agency as well as the office of the National Police Chief, both of whom need a clean bill of health from the Police Criminal Records Dept and Thai Interpol and that seems to be where you have been caught out. Foreigners in Thailand only have to supply fingerprints to apply for PR and citizenship and if they are arrested on suspicion of committing a criminal offence. If you don't do any of those things, you will probably be OK.

Exact;y, when applying for PR they take your fingerprints once at the Special Branch Royal Thai Police and once more at the Immigration Services when going for interview, I think everybody knows this

best a luck with it

[CiaranO]

It is a bit difficult to understand from just reading your initial post. Can I clarify?

1: You are applying for Permanat Residence and the immigration officer brought up your file.

2: You were leaving via Don Muang airport in 1999 using a false passport (South African?)

3: The immigration officer (in 1999) let you leave after paying 200,000 Bt. They also took copies of your fingerprints.

4: You come back to Thailand with a different country's passport and apply for PR.

5: Now they match your fingerprints to your previous offence of using a false passport, or at least one that doesn't belong to you.

What do you want a lawyer to do for you?

It's too late know but you should have known that applying for either PR or Thai citizenship is going to result in rigorous investigation of your background by various Thai government agencies to ensure no criminal or political (communist) background. Several people I know have been caught out in this process for things like not having a second job recorded on their work permit. Even getting big shot police or army to help them with Immigration didn't save their PR applications. Their only choice was to cancel their PR applications and apply again after getting the right documents for their situation. If they refused to cancel the application they would have ended up in court being prosecuted for a criminal offence.

I have heard of people who have paid bribes to police to cancel criminal records for things like drunk driving or gambling but I really doubt that the police do anything at all in these cases, except take the cash. Someone on TV complained that his Thai wife paid small money to local police to avoid a criminal record for being caught playing cards in her own house in a village. Years later the offence showed up when she applied to the US Embassy for a visa to go and live with her new American husband in the US. No new life for her but the policeman got to keep the 500 baht bribe.

In your case paying the bribe of B200k obviously worked quite well because it appears you were guilty of a serious criminal offence of entering Thailand under a false passport and identity for which you could have been imprisoned in Thailand for several years and they would have stolen any cash you had on you at the time. You would also have been deported to your real country of origin after finishing your sentence and probably blacklisted for life by Thai Immigration. Instead it seems you got your money's worth. You avoided prison, theft, deportation and blacklisting and you've presumably been allowed to stay and work in Thailand for many years and now have a Thai wife. The bribe kept you off the blacklist but didn't stop your finger prints from going into the police database which was probably a wise precaution by the Immigration officers. If you had committed a further criminal offence in Thailand there might have been questions raised as to why the officers failed to record your fingerprints. Although the officer in charge at the airport probably has some discretion to let visa offenders leave the country without arrest, the Thai police are fanatic about their fingerprint database, as they still don't have anything much more high tech than that, and questions might have been asked from high up as to why your fingerprints were discarded.

As others have suggested you should see a lawyer who has experience and good contacts with Immigration. My guess is that should be able to resolve the matter by cancelling your PR application and never applying again for that or Thai citizenship. Since your past offence was a criminal matter, you may find you are asked for some more tea money for Immigration to let it go at that without deportation, blacklisting and/or prosecution. I doubt that you can pay any money to get your fingerprint record from 1999 deleted from the police database. B200k didn't do it in 1999 and now a match has been made. Also PR applications have to be approved by the National Intelligence Agency as well as the office of the National Police Chief, both of whom need a clean bill of health from the Police Criminal Records Dept and Thai Interpol and that seems to be where you have been caught out. Foreigners in Thailand only have to supply fingerprints to apply for PR and citizenship and if they are arrested on suspicion of committing a criminal offence. If you don't do any of those things, you will probably be OK.

Great post and bang on.....I think the OP should count himself extremely lucky he didn't do some time in a Thai prison. I think the OP should seriously take your advice and read your comments......great post again.

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted. We don't discuss someones language skills here.

[bendejo]

I obtain this passport by myself from my friend in south African before coming to here

Not much of your explanation is coherent, but this line is enough. When the we say "my passport" it means the passport with my own name and picture in it, not one that is merely owned by me. " I obtain this passport by myself from my friend" is self-contradicting -- your 'friend' sold you a forgery?

So, to sum it up, you were traveling on a false passport and you got caught. Get out of the country if you can before they lock you up.

[lopburi3]

Actually it appears to have been a legal passport (just not issued to him) - he obtained it from his friend (thinking all blacks/whites/reds/greens look alike to a Thai) and assumed the identity until found out on exit.

I could be wrong but that is how I read it.

[bendejo]

Either way it comes down to false representation. He should anticipate having visitors soon.