Concept 2 Rower Model D (Exercise For Fat Loss)

[tropo]

On 6/15/2017 at 2:25 PM, TaveewatLim said:

My performance is decrease from 7500 in 30 minutes to about 7200 ?.

Why is that? Overtraining? Decreased training? Boredom? Injuries?

 

In my experience continually fighting (previous) numbers takes the fun out of rowing and sets one up for overtraining issues. i.e. Staleness, quitting, injuries, mental stress etc. If you overdo rowing you can end up with injuries.

 

Most of my rowing now is 5 or 10-minute intervals as part of a weight training circuit. I purposefully set the display NOT to indicate meters. At the end of the day, you can only do what you can do. Trying too hard is not good for older people. What's the point? Who cares how fast you can row? That's only important for people who are competing. That performance monitor can be your own worst enemy. If you row slower today, why stress about it. The important thing is you're getting good exercise.

 

Keep it fun. Don't obsess with numbers.

[GarryP]

On 2017-6-16 at 10:59 PM, tropo said:

Why is that? Overtraining? Decreased training? Boredom? Injuries?

 

In my experience continually fighting (previous) numbers takes the fun out of rowing and sets one up for overtraining issues. i.e. Staleness, quitting, injuries, mental stress etc. If you overdo rowing you can end up with injuries.

 

Most of my rowing now is 5 or 10-minute intervals as part of a weight training circuit. I purposefully set the display NOT to indicate meters. At the end of the day, you can only do what you can do. Trying too hard is not good for older people. What's the point? Who cares how fast you can row? That's only important for people who are competing. That performance monitor can be your own worst enemy. If you row slower today, why stress about it. The important thing is you're getting good exercise.

 

Keep it fun. Don't obsess with numbers.

I understand what you are saying. But I am not fighting the numbers. I am a bit OCD so the numbers bit actually helps pass the time while rowing. I am constantly throwing calculations around in my head as I row, in addition to listening to Fitradio on my headset (plug not intended). I know it may seem unbelievable but 9 times out of 10, I actually enjoy rowing and look forward to it. There is only the odd occasion when it is a chore and I want to give up after a few minutes - but never do.

 

I don't stress about my performance, but I have only been using Concept2 since February so am still improving (a newbie) - although I think I am already near my optimum level. Anyway, I am not pushing it now. If it improves further that is fine with me, or if it stays at the current level that is fine with me too. 

 

The rower is actually the best investment I have made for my health/fitness. And it is people like you and Taveewat who inspired me to buy one. Thanks. 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

I understand what you are saying. But I am not fighting the numbers. I am a bit OCD so the numbers bit actually helps pass the time while rowing. I am constantly throwing calculations around in my head as I row, in addition to listening to Fitradio on my headset (plug not intended). I know it may seem unbelievable but 9 times out of 10, I actually enjoy rowing and look forward to it. There is only the odd occasion when it is a chore and I want to give up after a few minutes - but never do.

 

I don't stress about my performance, but I have only been using Concept2 since February so am still improving (a newbie) - although I think I am already near my optimum level. Anyway, I am not pushing it now. If it improves further that is fine with me, or if it stays at the current level that is fine with me too. 

 

The rower is actually the best investment I have made for my health/fitness. And it is people like you and Taveewat who inspired me to buy one. Thanks. 

I have spent some time reading posts on the Concept2 forum. Some people were literally crying in despair that their performance had dropped to lower levels due to injuries. So many people are obsessed with their numbers.

 

A happy medium is what we should aim for. We're flesh and blood, not robots. I'm like you and quite OCD about the numbers too, doing little mental calculations as I row. That's why I've switched them off. There is a way you can row a full 30 minutes session and not see your numbers other than total meters. It's nice if you need a break from performance anxiety. Sure, you can still extrapolate your performance based on meters, but you don't get per stroke power readings or stroke rate. If you're interested, let me know and I'll explain in detail how to set it up.

 

Keep up the good work! I want to see you here in a years time and for years after that.

[TaveewatLim]

On 16/6/2560 at 10:59 PM, tropo said:

Why is that? Overtraining? Decreased training? Boredom? Injuries?

 

In my experience continually fighting (previous) numbers takes the fun out of rowing and sets one up for overtraining issues. i.e. Staleness, quitting, injuries, mental stress etc. If you overdo rowing you can end up with injuries.

 

Most of my rowing now is 5 or 10-minute intervals as part of a weight training circuit. I purposefully set the display NOT to indicate meters. At the end of the day, you can only do what you can do. Trying too hard is not good for older people. What's the point? Who cares how fast you can row? That's only important for people who are competing. That performance monitor can be your own worst enemy. If you row slower today, why stress about it. The important thing is you're getting good exercise.

 

Keep it fun. Don't obsess with numbers.

My performance drop because I'm not have time to row. I have to take care of my 2 years old son, send him to nursery and take him back home. He take all of my workout time?.

 

[robblok]

On 2017-6-19 at 8:01 PM, TaveewatLim said:

My performance drop because I'm not have time to row. I have to take care of my 2 years old son, send him to nursery and take him back home. He take all of my workout time?.

 

I have cut out rowing a bit and use a elliptical  now because the rowing combined with my normal workouts was getting a bit too heavy. 

 

Now trying to do moring cardio on the elliptical before breakfast and then at night (not every night) a workout with weights. Lets see how that goes. My weakness is always cardio. At some point I will be starting the rower again but probably not too many sessions maybe in a combination with the elliptical. I should really keep the cardio in my exercise program. 

[alfieconn]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

I have cut out rowing a bit and use a elliptical  now because the rowing combined with my normal workouts was getting a bit too heavy. 

 

Now trying to do moring cardio on the elliptical before breakfast and then at night (not every night) a workout with weights. Lets see how that goes. My weakness is always cardio. At some point I will be starting the rower again but probably not too many sessions maybe in a combination with the elliptical. I should really keep the cardio in my exercise program. 

I find the way to get over the metal and physical boredom of Cardio is to do a variation of workout's.

 

At the moment i am do rowing,  running on a treadmill at interval's and walking on a treadmill at different inclines all once a week, once i come back from my hols in a couple of weeks i will increase this to 4 times a week probably incorporating 30 mins of high intensity boxing training or 30-45 mins on a bike !

 

I also plan on buying a heart rate monitor back in the UK  to use with the above and to keep readings of the different exercises  so to be able to compare.  

 

 

 

[robblok]

Just now, alfieconn said:

I find the way to get over the metal and physical boredom of Cardio is to do a variation of workout's.

 

At the moment i am do rowing,  running on a treadmill at interval's and walking on a treadmill at different inclines all once a week, once i come back from my hols in a couple of weeks i will increase this to 4 times a week probably incorporating 30 mins of high intensity boxing training or 30-45 mins on a bike !

 

I also plan on buying a heart rate monitor back in the UK  to use with the above and to keep readings of the different exercises  so to be able to compare.  

 

 

 

I got other cardio too.. like barbell compounds (more like HITT) but I have to be careful with what I do as I also lift a lot of weights. I can't do everything as recovery will be an issue. My main exercise is weightlifting. So far it goes well on the elliptical, i want to keep it up for a few weeks then replace a few of these sessions by barbell complexes. So I only do weightlifting at the designated evenings. I had a bit of a setback early this year because of health problems (insomnia). Now I am trying to get everything back in line though I never really neglected the weight lifting.. its always the cardio that suffers if things go tits up. I don't need to do much lifting to keep what I have. I can't get much extra muscle mass anymore. 

[Beck1976]

Just in case anyone would be interested, I contacted Concept2 about purchasing a rower, and they in turn had their sales representative in Malaysia get in touch with me.

 

I was quoted $970+80 (shipping), total $1050 for the model D and $1200+110, total $1310 for the model E, delivered to my door in Phuket. I went for model D, and with taxes added, it came to a total of about $1300.

 

Communication with the seller was very good, and I can only recommend them, if anybody else is looking to purchase a rower. Relatively hasslefree and MUCH cheaper than buying one locally.

[GarryP]

13 hours ago, Beck1976 said:

Just in case anyone would be interested, I contacted Concept2 about purchasing a rower, and they in turn had their sales representative in Malaysia get in touch with me.

 

I was quoted $970+80 (shipping), total $1050 for the model D and $1200+110, total $1310 for the model E, delivered to my door in Phuket. I went for model D, and with taxes added, it came to a total of about $1300.

 

Communication with the seller was very good, and I can only recommend them, if anybody else is looking to purchase a rower. Relatively hasslefree and MUCH cheaper than buying one locally.

That is cheap. Too late for me. I just ordered a second model D which I will pick up tonight for my son. Baht 56,000, which is the best price I could find in Bangkok. Your's comes in at about Baht 43,000. 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

That is cheap. Too late for me. I just ordered a second model D which I will pick up tonight for my son. Baht 56,000, which is the best price I could find in Bangkok. Your's comes in at about Baht 43,000. 

That was a very good price (43,000 baht). He did post a bit late for you - that's a bit sad.

 

When I ordered mine from Concept2 in 2012 it was shipped from the US and it was about 56,000 in total including customs and FedEx shipping. They are a real bargain now that they are being shipped out of Singapore. Robblok paid about the same as me about year earlier. Who would have thought the price would be much lower 6 years on.

 

Now no one has got an excuse not to get one LOL.

[tropo]

15 hours ago, Beck1976 said:

Just in case anyone would be interested, I contacted Concept2 about purchasing a rower, and they in turn had their sales representative in Malaysia get in touch with me.

 

I was quoted $970+80 (shipping), total $1050 for the model D and $1200+110, total $1310 for the model E, delivered to my door in Phuket. I went for model D, and with taxes added, it came to a total of about $1300.

 

Communication with the seller was very good, and I can only recommend them, if anybody else is looking to purchase a rower. Relatively hasslefree and MUCH cheaper than buying one locally.

You are very lucky!!! At such a good price I would have gone for the Model E.

[Beck1976]

On 8/4/2017 at 2:35 PM, tropo said:

You are very lucky!!! At such a good price I would have gone for the Model E.

I didnt really see any reason to go with Model E, to be honest. The seat height is a non-issue for me.

 

Why would you pick E over D?

 

[tropo]

34 minutes ago, Beck1976 said:

I didnt really see any reason to go with Model E, to be honest. The seat height is a non-issue for me.

 

Why would you pick E over D?

 

Maybe the height isn't a consideration now, but it could be when you're really old with bad knees.

 

Here's the Model E description:

 

The Model E offers presence and durability with its 20-inch frame height, nickel-plated chain, and double powder coat with glossy finish. From a practical standpoint, the higher frame means easier on-and-off for those with tired knees or mobility considerations. The nickel-plated chain (also featured on the Model D and Dynamic) requires less-frequent oiling. The finish protects against scratches.

 

Although I'm very happy with my Model D which still looks brand new after 5 years, for which I paid 56k, I would have gone for the E if the D is only 43k now.

 

I'm glad I had to go back to the Concept2 site to look as I've just discovered they have built a BikeErg. It's only $990 too. Going by the quality of the Concept2 rower I'd be confident it will be a beautiful machine to ride. I might get one of those if they ship them out of Singapore. It won't take a lot of space in my gym and it will offer a great complement to the rower. It uses the same flywheel design and PM5 monitor and you can fit standard bike pedals and seats if you want to customize it. 

 

http://www.concept2.com/bikeerg/concept2-bikeerg

 

This was just unveiled on August 1. International shipping starts next year.

 

https://barbend.com/concept2-bikeerg/

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by tropo

[Beck1976]

Still being relatively young, old knees and mobility issues is hopefully a long way away :)
One thing that weighed against model E for me, was the monitor arm being fixed in place. I like that on model D I can store it away behind the flywheel, minimizing the risk of damaging it, when moving it around ( I have to assemble and disassemble it for each session).

 

Yes, I just saw the bikeErg as well. I was thinking of getting one of those stationary trainers you can attach a real bicycle to, but this might be a viable alternative.

[tropo]

13 minutes ago, Beck1976 said:

Still being relatively young, old knees and mobility issues is hopefully a long way away :)
One thing that weighed against model E for me, was the monitor arm being fixed in place. I like that on model D I can store it away behind the flywheel, minimizing the risk of damaging it, when moving it around ( I have to assemble and disassemble it for each session).

 

Yes, I just saw the bikeErg as well. I was thinking of getting one of those stationary trainers you can attach a real bicycle to, but this might be a viable alternative.

I didn't realise the Model E monitor arm was fixed, but the machine still separates in 2 for easy storage. I always take mine apart for storage. There's a slight disadvantage in the folding style though. You have to remember to fold it back before you pick the machine up and store it. I have forgotten to do this once or twice and the monitor takes a hard dive down to hit the rail.

 

I'm also considering the SkiErg as an alternative cardio exercise. I'll wait to see reviews on the Concep2 BikeErg before I jump in. The SkiErg has been well tested already.

[up-country_sinclair]

On 8/3/2017 at 7:34 PM, Beck1976 said:

Just in case anyone would be interested, I contacted Concept2 about purchasing a rower, and they in turn had their sales representative in Malaysia get in touch with me.

Hi Beck1976

 

Please check your inbox for a private message.

 

Thanks!

[tropo]

Well guys, after much deliberation I've taken the plunge and ordered a Concept2 SkiErg. I hurt my back a couple of weeks ago. I was doing a lot of stuff so I'm not exactly sure what went wrong, but it has made rowing very tricky. The SkiErg looks like a great way to do cardio while saving the back and knees. The SkiErg involves flexion of the spine in an abdominal contraction, so it should be a very good balance to rowing.

 

[Beck1976]

Please give a review after you have used it for a while.

[TaveewatLim]

21 hours ago, tropo said:

Well guys, after much deliberation I've taken the plunge and ordered a Concept2 SkiErg. I hurt my back a couple of weeks ago. I was doing a lot of stuff so I'm not exactly sure what went wrong, but it has made rowing very tricky. The SkiErg looks like a great way to do cardio while saving the back and knees. The SkiErg involves flexion of the spine in an abdominal contraction, so it should be a very good balance to rowing.

 

Look forward for your review.I interested in BikeErg but no more room for it.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, TaveewatLim said:

Look forward for your review.I interested in BikeErg but no more room for it.

I will definitely be discussing my experiences here. I may start a new trend LOL... Everyone will be scrambling to buy SkiErgs.

 

Here are the prices, delivered to Thailand (door to door): USD 1203 or MYR 5330

 

Add 17% to that for duty and VAT.

 

 

 

 

[tropo]

Since the fitness and exercise threads that used to be in the "I'm too fat" forum have now all gone dead. I'm the only one who has posted here for 2 weeks. This forum is dead and most expats exercise to lose fat, so why not keep it in the health forum?

 

[GarryP]

On 8/27/2017 at 2:56 PM, tropo said:

Since the fitness and exercise threads that used to be in the "I'm too fat" forum have now all gone dead. I'm the only one who has posted here for 2 weeks. This forum is dead and most expats exercise to lose fat, so why not keep it in the health forum?

 

Have you received your Concept2 SkiErg yet? How are you finding it?

 

Not been particularly active on the rower the past three weeks because I have either not been feeling too well or tied up with other things, namely travel. However, now that all my trips are over I hope to start hitting the rower with the regularity I used to.     

[TaveewatLim]

I'm back to running again, but I still row 3 times per week(about 21,000 meter).

[tropo]

8 hours ago, GarryP said:

Have you received your Concept2 SkiErg yet? How are you finding it?

 

Not been particularly active on the rower the past three weeks because I have either not been feeling too well or tied up with other things, namely travel. However, now that all my trips are over I hope to start hitting the rower with the regularity I used to.     

Yes, I've had it for 10 days now. I've done 40,000m on it so far and I absolutely love it. I should have bought this years ago. It took a back injury to push me to research it.

 

It takes care of all my "old-age" problems. Finally, I can exercise at near max heart rate in perfect safety. On the rowing machine, when I start hitting my high heart rate numbers I'm concerned (and nervous) about my lower back and knees, which ultimately limit how hard I can row safely.

 

It's the ultimate old man's fitness tool,  for when the back and knees start showing signs of wear and tear. Of course, it's a great training tool for all ages - just watch all the YouTube videos of people doing it.

 

It took a few days to get the hang of it and perfect the technique, but once I did it started feeling fantastic. Now I have nothing getting in the way of optimum cardio fitness.

 

I should also note that it's a perfect complement to rowing. Whereas in rowing you extend (back) the lower back, on the SkiErg you flex forward in a semi-crunch position. Doing both will give you full and balanced core strength. Due to the upper back specific movement of pulling down the handles, it's also very comfortable on the shoulders and would probably be therapeutic for anyone with compression type shoulder injuries, which most people who do weight training develop at some point. It's important to keep the elbows bent, thereby avoiding stress on the elbows.

 

 

 

My cardio sessions so far have consisted of 5 - 10 minutes on the SkiErg, followed by 5 - 10 minutes on the rower and going back and forth on both machines for 40 - 50 minutes. It certainly breaks the boredom of long rowing pieces. Some of my pieces are steady rows/skis, others are timed HIIT pieces. In terms of intensity - both machines match up closely. i.e. A 2:00 pace on the SkiErg feels as hard (or easy) as a 2:00 pace on the rower. The main difference for me is that I can pull at a faster pace on the SkiErg because I don't have to worry about my back or knees. Also, it gives my back and knees a break, so they will get stronger over time.

 

Well, that's my first review. Hopefully, some of you will also get one and we can compare notes.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by tropo

[tropo]

3 hours ago, TaveewatLim said:

I'm back to running again, but I still row 3 times per week(about 21,000 meter).

Looks like you are getting ready for the Pattaya marathon on Sunday the 3rd September?

[TaveewatLim]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

On the rowing machine, when I start hitting my high heart rate numbers I'm concerned (and nervous) about my lower back and knees, which ultimately limit how hard I can row safely.

Agree, and the other problem for me is rowing not suitable for long steady stage intensity. 

I can maintain my heart rate at 160 bpm when I run about one hour but on the rower, just take only 6 minute to got 160bpm.

For this reason, I think BikeErg is more suitable for me to do long intensity steady stage cardio than rower.I can control my heart rate zone on the bike which I think it's easier than rowing.

I attach my split time on the rower, that show my heart rate is get through 160bpm in 6 minute and my running data my average heart rate at 10K is just 151bpm

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by TaveewatLim

[TaveewatLim]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

Looks like you are getting ready for the Pattaya marathon on Sunday the 3rd September?

Sorry, I didn't join Pattaya marathon this year, but I join Half marathon of Seaman at U-tapao on 10th September.

Edited August 29, 2017 by TaveewatLim

[tropo]

I don't really understand your problem. On the rowing machine, (and every other type of exercise) you are in control of your heart rate and you can keep it exactly where you want it to be for as long as you want.

 

I don't see any real benefit in being obsessed with the numbers you see on the monitor - you're doing it for fitness, and your heart rate is more relevant. 

 

Having said that, I also believe you stroke too slowly on the rowing machine. By slow stroke rate, you are fatiguing the muscular strength system a lot more than faster (stroke rate) rowing, which works more on the cardio system. You can get the same performance numbers by rowing at a faster rate and it will feel easier. Best of all is to vary stroke rate to develop different energy systems. Most rowers vary their stroke rate. When I row, I vary it from low 20's to mid-30's. That also helps with the boredom factor.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by tropo

[GarryP]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

I don't really understand your problem. On the rowing machine, (and every other type of exercise) you are in control of your heart rate and you can keep it exactly where you want it to be for as long as you want.

 

I don't see any real benefit in being obsessed with the numbers you see on the monitor - you're doing it for fitness, and your heart rate is more relevant. 

 

Having said that, I also believe you stroke too slowly on the rowing machine. By slow stroke rate, you are fatiguing the muscular strength system a lot more than faster (stroke rate) rowing, which works more on the cardio system. You can get the same performance numbers by rowing at a faster rate and it will feel easier. Best of all is to vary stroke rate to develop different energy systems. Most rowers vary their stroke rate. When I row, I vary it from low 20's to mid-30's. That also helps with the boredom factor.

 

 

I was very surprised by the stroke rate.  Try as I might I have not been able to get the rate down to even 25.  I am covering nearly the same distance as Taveewat in 30 minutes (between 7080 to 7200 meters), but my stroke rate is usually between 28 to 31 s/m. 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

I was very surprised by the stroke rate.  Try as I might I have not been able to get the rate down to even 25.  I am covering nearly the same distance as Taveewat in 30 minutes (between 7080 to 7200 meters), but my stroke rate is usually between 28 to 31 s/m. 

 

(Did you not read my long review of the SkiErg above? I made a big effort for you LOL)

 

I don't find it pleasant to row below 25 for long periods. When I do, it's for relatively short periods. It's good if you want to develop more strength, but that can also put your back at greater risk of injury. It's also good for technique training as you have more time to think.

 

If you want to get the feel at lower stroke rates and finding it difficult, just lower the damper setting.

Edited August 30, 2017 by tropo