Contaminated Food May Have Killed Canadian Sisters: Phi Phi Island

[ttelise]

Here the morning news of Quebec!

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/06/20120620-082318.html

---Google Translation---

TVA News has learned that according to Thai media, video surveillance of the hotel where the sisters Bélanger show a man who will turn them back to their room the day before the gruesome discovery, and exit. This was said Richard Fillion, a Quebecer who lives in Thailand.

The man, a Portuguese, was actively pursued by the Thai police.

It seems that some people had found then that the two women did not feel very well.

The body repatriated tomorrow

The body of Naomi and Audrey Belanger will be repatriated to Canada Thursday.

"It's a relief terrible," says the uncle of the victims, Eric Belanger. The family would also like to thank the Canadian Embassy for repatriation so fast.

An autopsy was performed Tuesday at the funeral. But Bélanger received no information about the results and will likely wait a few weeks to learn more.

Another autopsy will be performed on Canadian soil.

This puts tremendous pressure on Thais to actually try and do autopsy correctly lest they look like uneducated hacks

[FroggyQc]

Anyone knows if there's a leak for the hotel camera videos ? Will be usefull to have an idea of how the portuguese guy looks like!

[how241]

............The thought occurred to me that if the girls had ingested anything that they believed to be illegal, e.g., magic mushrooms, then fearing the legal consequences might explain why they never attempted to leave their room to get help when feeling so ill.

anything is possible, I'm waiting for the truth.

[canuckamuck]

A fellow Quebecois brought them to their room. This could be neighborly assistance to fellow Canadians who were feeling ill. Or it could be he was up to no good (or both). Problem is that the authorities will smell a scapegoat, no matter what.

We need to hear his side of the events.

Edited June 20, 2012 by canuckamuck

[Nisa]

Initial quoting above, but I do agree that the inability of Thai officials or anyone Thai to understand basic concepts such as whether Inuprofen is administered in doses of mcgs, mgs, grams or kgs makes me question their brain power.

I am questioning your reason to jump to such an obviously incorrect assumption based on reporting in English in Thailand given the fact a lot of effort isn't put into providing foreign language news here.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Have just returned from a remote part of Isaan alongside the Thai border.

My host had to rush an elderly Thai woman from the next house to the hospital seriously ill.

Upon admission the doctors establisheed she had been like all the locals in eating mushrooms.

That was diagnosed as the cause of her sudden illness.

She recovered but during my 10 days 6 Thai people died out there with the diagnosis of mushroom poisoning.

This was from a population of about 100,000 within the hospital catchment area.

It is sad what has occured with 2 Candian ladies but Thai people are dying also.

But why some die and others do not is a mystery because I also ate the mushrooms while out there. Possibly sickness only kicks in with an overdose or maybe a combination of foods act on mushrooms.

I am not suggesting or finding that the Canadians died because of an encounter with mushrooms , but just stating that death seems very common in this country.

Death is pretty common everywhere.

[abq2020]

Very sad situation. My heart and sincerest sympathy goes out to their family.

Other than someone confessing to intentionally poisoning them, the only real chance to solve the pathological cause of death is through competent and independent conduct of forensic toxicology tests. The key words here are competent and independent, which will not likely happen if left only to Thai entities with typical self-preserving motives.

I would hope that authorities at the Canadian Embassy will push hard to have an "independent" pathologist involved in the autopsies, fluid and tissue collections, and audit-trail management of samples....and then have an internationally accredited lab outside of Thailand perform the toxicology tests. Without heavy-handed pressure from the Canadian Embassy it is highly unlikely that any unbiased results will ever be determined or made public.

The accomplishment of the above will not only help the family understand what really happened...but will also help protect others tourists and visitors in the future, as well as potentially improving the Kingdom of Thailand's rather dubious images regarding tourist safety and Government authority competence.

[ttelise]

Initial quoting above, but I do agree that the inability of Thai officials or anyone Thai to understand basic concepts such as whether Inuprofen is administered in doses of mcgs, mgs, grams or kgs makes me question their brain power.

I am questioning your reason to jump to such an obviously incorrect assumption based on reporting in English in Thailand given the fact a lot of effort isn't put into providing foreign language news here.

My reasoning is quiet simple. The manner in which they report, investigate, handle and inability to solve is a joke.

How do we know it's translation? Why even report Ibuprofen when almost every woman from US and Canada probably carries for monthly cramps.

Why not mention all the suck people in hospital on Phi Phi at this time with symptoms of poisoning from food or other? Simply a joke

Edited June 20, 2012 by ttelise

[ttelise]

Have just returned from a remote part of Isaan alongside the Thai border.

My host had to rush an elderly Thai woman from the next house to the hospital seriously ill.

Upon admission the doctors establisheed she had been like all the locals in eating mushrooms.

That was diagnosed as the cause of her sudden illness.

She recovered but during my 10 days 6 Thai people died out there with the diagnosis of mushroom poisoning.

This was from a population of about 100,000 within the hospital catchment area.

It is sad what has occured with 2 Candian ladies but Thai people are dying also.

But why some die and others do not is a mystery because I also ate the mushrooms while out there. Possibly sickness only kicks in with an overdose or maybe a combination of foods act on mushrooms.

I am not suggesting or finding that the Canadians died because of an encounter with mushrooms , but just stating that death seems very common in this country.

Death is pretty common everywhere.

Yeah, but not with healthy 20 and 26 year olds. I would be willing to bet mortality is quit low for this age group among females

[annabel]

Just another dumb question about hoesekeeping.. I have travelled a lot and when hosekeeping knocks on the door and there is NO ANSWER .... normally they open up to come in and clean cause if there is no answer they assume you are not there ....!! So why didn't housekeepimg assume they were in the room and wanted to rest more ... ?? Jeez... ok Maybe the key has to be left at reception so they knew they were in the room...... BUT... based on the reviews I read about this hotel on Trip Advisor .... apparently there is nobody at the reception in the late evening / night other than a guy sound asleep on a couch .. so duh!!! If they did try to get help ... good luck to them cause nobody lucid enough was present ... and again housekeeping for 2 days assumed they were in the room ...?? In all my travels I have been so annoyed at husekeeping barging in after I wouldn't get up to answer that I ensured that the Do Not Disturb Sign was hung outside when I wanted to sleep in ... but yes...yes... yes... of course this hotel probable didn;t have such a sign to put out .. anyway .... Grrrrrrrrrrrrr............

PS Why is it that none of the features for Font, Color , Emoticons on TV do not work when one puts a post !!

[ttelise]

Just another dumb question about hoesekeeping.. I have travelled a lot and when hosekeeping knocks on the door and there is NO ANSWER .... normally they open up to come in and clean cause if there is no answer they assume you are not there ....!! So why didn't housekeepimg assume they were in the room and wanted to rest more ... ?? Jeez... ok Maybe the key has to be left at reception so they knew they were in the room...... BUT... based on the reviews I read about this hotel on Trip Advisor .... apparently there is nobody at the reception in the late evening / night other than a guy sound asleep on a couch .. so duh!!! If they did try to get help ... good luck to them cause nobody lucid enough was present ... and again housekeeping for 2 days assumed they were in the room ...?? In all my travels I have been so annoyed at husekeeping barging in after I wouldn't get up to answer that I ensured that the Do Not Disturb Sign was hung outside when I wanted to sleep in ... but yes...yes... yes... of course this hotel probable didn;t have such a sign to put out .. anyway .... Grrrrrrrrrrrrr............

PS Why is it that none of the features for Font, Color , Emoticons on TV do not work when one puts a post !!

Yep, wondered that myself. Housekeeping has this way of entering when I am getting out of shower and did not hear the door. Either that or they are just trying to catch a cheap thrill . . .

[dingdang]

i thought, they walk at least in when the aircon is running permanently - to switch it off...

and their aircon probably run from tuesday night till friday noon, 24/7...

not all people drop their keys at reception, and even if, the maid usually comes with their own master key...

after breakfast it is generally expected, that they can (and do) enter the room...

the door was locked with a chain from inside, allgedly...

Edited June 20, 2012 by dingdang

[ttelise]

i thought, they walk at least in when the aircon is running permanently - to switch it off...

and their aircon probably run from tuesday night till friday noon, 24/7...

the door was locked with a chain from inside.

If so, and I was wondering if I simply misunderstood, how did she discover the bodies?

Didn't they said maid discovered bodies? Did she break the chain? Could she see the bodies from the door being slightly cracked open?

[dingdang]

it was said, the door was chained from inside...

and it was said, the maid opened the door with the master key...

...the maid could have opened - up to the chain - and called...

...maybe, despite all aircon, she could have smelled something, too...

Edited June 20, 2012 by dingdang

[annabel]

Here the morning news of Quebec!

http://tvanouvelles.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2012/06/20120620-082318.html

---Google Translation---

TVA News has learned that according to Thai media, video surveillance of the hotel where the sisters Bélanger show a man who will turn them back to their room the day before the gruesome discovery, and exit. This was said Richard Fillion, a Quebecer who lives in Thailand.

The man, a Portuguese, was actively pursued by the Thai police.

It seems that some people had found then that the two women did not feel very well.

The body repatriated tomorrow

The body of Naomi and Audrey Belanger will be repatriated to Canada Thursday.

"It's a relief terrible," says the uncle of the victims, Eric Belanger. The family would also like to thank the Canadian Embassy for repatriation so fast.

An autopsy was performed Tuesday at the funeral. But Bélanger received no information about the results and will likely wait a few weeks to learn more.

Another autopsy will be performed on Canadian soil.

OMG this translation is so so horrible and doesn't relate to what was said even 50% .... Ouf !! Anyway ... apparently the video cameras of the hotel saw a Portugues man ( how was this established I really dont know ??) accompany each of them INDIVIDYALLY to their room ... and then says that at this moment some people realized the girls were not well ///.. Again ...?? Why didn't anybody do something about it ...?? I have no idea who gave all this rubbish info to this rubbish Canadian newspaper but it is insane and makes no sense whatsoever.. the only believable thing it says is that the bodies will be sent back to Canada on Thursday which is today ... and that another autopsy will be done in Canada ... the autopsy in Bangkok is finished and results expected in about 2 weeks... In any case forget autopsy in Canada .. damage has been done and all evidence washed out by the Bangok autopsy !!

[FroggyQc]

Here the morning news of Quebec!

http://tvanouvelles....620-082318.html

---Google Translation---

TVA News has learned that according to Thai media, video surveillance of the hotel where the sisters Bélanger show a man who will turn them back to their room the day before the gruesome discovery, and exit. This was said Richard Fillion, a Quebecer who lives in Thailand.

The man, a Portuguese, was actively pursued by the Thai police.

It seems that some people had found then that the two women did not feel very well.

The body repatriated tomorrow

The body of Naomi and Audrey Belanger will be repatriated to Canada Thursday.

"It's a relief terrible," says the uncle of the victims, Eric Belanger. The family would also like to thank the Canadian Embassy for repatriation so fast.

An autopsy was performed Tuesday at the funeral. But Bélanger received no information about the results and will likely wait a few weeks to learn more.

Another autopsy will be performed on Canadian soil.

OMG this translation is so so horrible and doesn't relate to what was said even 50% .... Ouf !! Anyway ... apparently the video cameras of the hotel saw a Portugues man ( how was this established I really dont know ??) accompany each of them INDIVIDYALLY to their room ... and then says that at this moment some people realized the girls were not well ///.. Again ...?? Why didn't anybody do something about it ...?? I have no idea who gave all this rubbish info to this rubbish Canadian newspaper but it is insane and makes no sense whatsoever.. the only believable thing it says is that the bodies will be sent back to Canada on Thursday which is today ... and that another autopsy will be done in Canada ... the autopsy in Bangkok is finished and results expected in about 2 weeks... In any case forget autopsy in Canada .. damage has been done and all evidence washed out by the Bangok autopsy !!

Thanks Annabel for helping the translation! ;-)

[bigbamboo]

Here the morning news of Quebec!

http://tvanouvelles....620-082318.html

---Google Translation---

TVA News has learned that according to Thai media, video surveillance of the hotel where the sisters Bélanger show a man who will turn them back to their room the day before the gruesome discovery, and exit. This was said Richard Fillion, a Quebecer who lives in Thailand.

The man, a Portuguese, was actively pursued by the Thai police.

It seems that some people had found then that the two women did not feel very well.

The body repatriated tomorrow

The body of Naomi and Audrey Belanger will be repatriated to Canada Thursday.

"It's a relief terrible," says the uncle of the victims, Eric Belanger. The family would also like to thank the Canadian Embassy for repatriation so fast.

An autopsy was performed Tuesday at the funeral. But Bélanger received no information about the results and will likely wait a few weeks to learn more.

Another autopsy will be performed on Canadian soil.

This puts tremendous pressure on Thais to actually try and do autopsy correctly lest they look like uneducated hacks

I think that might be the intention.

[annabel]

Here the morning news of Quebec!

http://tvanouvelles....620-082318.html

---Google Translation---

TVA News has learned that according to Thai media, video surveillance of the hotel where the sisters Bélanger show a man who will turn them back to their room the day before the gruesome discovery, and exit. This was said Richard Fillion, a Quebecer who lives in Thailand.

The man, a Portuguese, was actively pursued by the Thai police.

It seems that some people had found then that the two women did not feel very well.

The body repatriated tomorrow

The body of Naomi and Audrey Belanger will be repatriated to Canada Thursday.

"It's a relief terrible," says the uncle of the victims, Eric Belanger. The family would also like to thank the Canadian Embassy for repatriation so fast.

An autopsy was performed Tuesday at the funeral. But Bélanger received no information about the results and will likely wait a few weeks to learn more.

Another autopsy will be performed on Canadian soil.

This puts tremendous pressure on Thais to actually try and do autopsy correctly lest they look like uneducated hacks

I think that might be the intention.

Too late //// !! The bodies have already been tampered with and it is now more than one week since their death + another min 24 hours to get to Canada + how many hours before the autopsy is performed... What forensic evidence will be left by then ////...?? I don't understand WHY the Canadian Embassy enouraged the parents to do a 1st autopsy in Bangkok... to keep good relations with Thailand ...?? Pffff!! Makes me sick !

[dingdang]

when was the room last occupied, and how did those guests do during their stay?

[annabel]

I also love the way the Thai newspapers ( Paid and controlled by who..?? ) report this event:

The autopsy of two Canadian sisters found dead last in an Andaman Sea tourist resort hotel room will be released within two weeks, according to Ramathibodi Hospital's Forensic Department.

"Andaman Sea resort " Hulloeee !! what are we trying to avoid here.... I saw this in numerous newspaper reports ... what a bunch of jokers !!!

[annabel]

when was the room last occupied, and how did those guests do during their stay?

And better even ... who is staying there now ...? Obviously the hotel was not closed down ever ... ??

[dingdang]

im still in the water pipes... and thought, that the room perhaps didnt have any guests for some days/week, and bacteria may have collected in the pipes...

but even then, only one should have been affected (badly)... except they had showered together - possible...

Edited June 20, 2012 by dingdang

[ttelise]

im still in the water pipes... and thought, that the room perhaps didnt have any guests for some days/week, and bacteria may have collected in the pipes...

but even then, only one should have been affected (badly)... except they had showered together - possible...

Don't go there. Thai authorities will pick up on it and report that they were "Thespian" lovers who were ashamed and killed themselevs in a suicide pact.

[annabel]

I love TV SOMETIMES/// and sometimes not ???

yesterday there was a poster who said something similar to this ... To all you Sherlock Holmes or Bar stools somethings.... why don't you go there and do your own investigation ..... and some other smart ass replied ... yup well that is possible as already 2 posters have offered their services to go there... Duh!!! And guess who that was .. ?Yup me was one of them!! but since nobody can read properly my intention to go was no 1 , to help them in their talks with The local Thais as well as with the rep from the Canadian embassy as they come from a very small town of barely 3,000 people near / in the Canadian Indian Native areas bordering the USA and I am sure their English if not null would be extremely minimalistic.... I also offered this because I am myself French Canadian and a MOTHER so yes comfort even IF from a stranger but from a similar environment and background can be very comforting ... especially one who has lived here and understands the BS of the country which obviously they would have absolutely no clue about ... So based on above /... whoever did come back saying " And what kind of help do you think you could provide ... they don't need a stranger like You ~!!"

Well you are dead wrong and you obviously do not understand our tribe honey.

Anyway , so as for to us (2.. whoever the other person may be ) /// Honestly .... I would love to do it if they called me on day 1 ... cause I can assure you that we (?) would do a f....g hell of a better job than they have ever done in the past and current similar cases

[Nisa]

Initial quoting above, but I do agree that the inability of Thai officials or anyone Thai to understand basic concepts such as whether Inuprofen is administered in doses of mcgs, mgs, grams or kgs makes me question their brain power.

I am questioning your reason to jump to such an obviously incorrect assumption based on reporting in English in Thailand given the fact a lot of effort isn't put into providing foreign language news here.

My reasoning is quiet simple. The manner in which they report, investigate, handle and inability to solve is a joke.

How do we know it's translation? Why even report Ibuprofen when almost every woman from US and Canada probably carries for monthly cramps.

Why not mention all the suck people in hospital on Phi Phi at this time with symptoms of poisoning from food or other? Simply a joke

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ... and those not aware of this shouldn't visit one.

You first need to accept that this is Thailand and the world and news doesn't revolve around English speaking foreigners. They reported the medication because they were made aware of it. This is what reporters do. And like elsewhere, police & medical professionals don't release all the information and certainly don't give a blow by blow description of everything they do and or have done.

For all the idiotic claims of there surely must be something sinister going on, the fact of the matter is stuff like this happens all the time all around the world but it just so happens there are numerous farangs here who take each poorly reported English new story and want to pretend it is the norm or to think such idiotic things as police will cover up the cause of death. The chances they were purposely targeted or murders is incredibly slim but even if they were, people are murdered all over but it seems only posters here on ThaiVisa keep screaming how bad it makes Thailand look and how much it is going to hurt tourism but the fact remains people keep coming here in increasing masses because unlike posters here, the realize sh@t happens everywhere and they actually want to come here because it isn't like their home ... instead of many posters here who do nothing but complain that this less developed and less expensive nation isn't like what they are used to.

[maidu]

It seems to me that whatever toxin caused these rather sudden deaths will not be difficult to find and identify, and impossible to cover up. Regardless of motivation an obviously falsified report would prove to be very counterproductive.

You are saying that with a straight face?

Really, 'impossible to cover up' ?!? We're talking about Thai forensic specialists, who are not renown for being adept at their jobs. Your last sentence shows you haven't been in Thailand long. Hint: an inconclusive cause of death is the most desirable conclusion, according to Thai proclivities. It's the quickest way to sweep this whole episode under the rug, and go back to burnishing Thailand reputation as a tourist haven. They want to hear those cash registers clinking.

Why would anyone want to poison two innocent girls .....(?)

Certain unscrupulous men have been known to do such things. Not necessarily poison to kill, but poison to rape. A case in japan, some years ago, had a Japanese man poisoning a farang woman with ether (gauze over the mouth) with intention to rape. He put too much toxin in her system, her liver failed, and she died. He buried her in some sand at a cave near his house. Japanese cops didn't find the body until their second attempt, weeks after their first search of the sand.

[SOEYCHANLOY]

There are many pubs that serves a popular cocktail which is made from mushrooms. A tourist said that there were special mushrooms on the menu on Pangan island and Samui island and and also on Phi Phi island. Local name is “Khee Kwai ” or magic mushroom, which is popular among tourists. When consumed, this kind of mushroom will cause heavy intoxication.

Let me get this straight... the police know that illicit drugs are being openly sold to tourists at the pubs and yet no crackdown on this practice is being done? I read stories all the time here about a couple of farangs getting busted for a few grams of cannabis and yet these are actual Thai businesses openly selling cocktails with drugs in them. This county never ceases to amaze. They truly are "Amazing Thailand"

Because the people that own the illegal businesses on these small islands are the policemen. Nobody can 'storm' the island to investigate, the boatmen call the police everytime they are taking people over, if there are any officials or DSI etc, then the police on the island get 30 mins notice.

Exactly! It is the is way it works.

Sent from my GT-S5830T using Thaivisa Connect App

[ttelise]

Initial quoting above, but I do agree that the inability of Thai officials or anyone Thai to understand basic concepts such as whether Inuprofen is administered in doses of mcgs, mgs, grams or kgs makes me question their brain power.

I am questioning your reason to jump to such an obviously incorrect assumption based on reporting in English in Thailand given the fact a lot of effort isn't put into providing foreign language news here.

My reasoning is quiet simple. The manner in which they report, investigate, handle and inability to solve is a joke.

How do we know it's translation? Why even report Ibuprofen when almost every woman from US and Canada probably carries for monthly cramps.

Why not mention all the suck people in hospital on Phi Phi at this time with symptoms of poisoning from food or other? Simply a joke

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ... and those not aware of this shouldn't visit one.

You first need to accept that this is Thailand and the world and news doesn't revolve around English speaking foreigners. They reported the medication because they were made aware of it. This is what reporters do. And like elsewhere, police & medical professionals don't release all the information and certainly don't give a blow by blow description of everything they do and or have done.

For all the idiotic claims of there surely must be something sinister going on, the fact of the matter is stuff like this happens all the time all around the world but it just so happens there are numerous farangs here who take each poorly reported English new story and want to pretend it is the norm or to think such idiotic things as police will cover up the cause of death. The chances they were purposely targeted or murders is incredibly slim but even if they were, people are murdered all over but it seems only posters here on ThaiVisa keep screaming how bad it makes Thailand look and how much it is going to hurt tourism but the fact remains people keep coming here in increasing masses because unlike posters here, the realize sh@t happens everywhere and they actually want to come here because it isn't like their home ... instead of many posters here who do nothing but complain that this less developed and less expensive nation isn't like what they are used to.

I have said several times, people are targeted and killed verywhere in the world. US has many serial killers. Brtian has serial killers. Europe has serial killers. Bali has them Thailand, however, has none and no farangs ever get murdered in Thailand. They just all commit suicide in some form or fashion.

[ttelise]

Nisa:

Just read the Scot girl thread. One thing is painfully evident: Thailand cares only about the money. They place money ahead of human life. They will do what ever they can to get foreigners to bring money into their economy and they will do what ever they can to avoid losing influx of foreign money.

Thailand ranks were in terms of GDP per capita (below Mexico and Costa Rica) and that is based largely on foreign countries producing goods in Thailand and giving Thai workers jobs.

No one, and I mean, no one, in Thailand accepts responsibility for anything. Not the government. Not politicians. Business owners sure don't as they serve bad food that harms others and leave other without recourse. Bad Thai drivers kill with relative impugnity. They flee the scene of the accident probably to let intoxicants wear off, turn themselves in, show remorse and what happens. What exactly does the victims get for their injuries or the families who lost children and loved ones to these bad drivers.

[GentlemanJim]

I love TV SOMETIMES/// and sometimes not ???

yesterday there was a poster who said something similar to this ... To all you Sherlock Holmes or Bar stools somethings.... why don't you go there and do your own investigation ..... and some other smart ass replied ... yup well that is possible as already 2 posters have offered their services to go there... Duh!!! And guess who that was .. ?Yup me was one of them!! but since nobody can read properly my intention to go was no 1 , to help them in their talks with The local Thais as well as with the rep from the Canadian embassy as they come from a very small town of barely 3,000 people near / in the Canadian Indian Native areas bordering the USA and I am sure their English if not null would be extremely minimalistic.... I also offered this because I am myself French Canadian and a MOTHER so yes comfort even IF from a stranger but from a similar environment and background can be very comforting ... especially one who has lived here and understands the BS of the country which obviously they would have absolutely no clue about ... So based on above /... whoever did come back saying " And what kind of help do you think you could provide ... they don't need a stranger like You ~!!"

Well you are dead wrong and you obviously do not understand our tribe honey.

Anyway , so as for to us (2.. whoever the other person may be ) /// Honestly .... I would love to do it if they called me on day 1 ... cause I can assure you that we (?) would do a f....g hell of a better job than they have ever done in the past and current similar cases

Don't worry, they can take the piss, I was the 'other' that would dedicate my time! Do not feel ashamed with offering your help whilst some pissed up couch potato takes the piss out of you. We all do what we feel is good and necessary in this world!