Contaminated Food May Have Killed Canadian Sisters: Phi Phi Island

[phiphidon]

Phi Phi and the other islands in that region (not Phuket, it's too far gone) should be declared national parks. All local residents and commercial activities should be forced to leave and compensated fairly for their investments. Included, could be some nearby coastal areas. The region could then slowly revert to its natural state. Heck, turtles might even return to lay eggs.

Tourists could stay at nearby venues, such as Krabi, Ao Nang, Lanta - and visit by boats - similar to how such things are done at the Galapados Islands off Ecuador.

When those islands are un-commercialized, they'll be a magnet for thousands of nature loving tourists, and will generate more revenue than they currently do in their gaudy commercial environmentally harmful manifestation.

If current trends continue, the islands will continue to degenerate environmentally, trash and toxins will continue to accumulate, local flora fauna, corals and sea will continue to degrade.

Those islands could never support more than a few huts with hominids, yet now they're burdened with crass commercialization and all the toxins, trash and degradation that people bring to such places.

It is already supposed to be a national marine Park, Hat Nopparat Thara - Mu Koh Phi Phi National Park to give it its full title - doesn't seem to have helped though.

http://web3.dnp.go.th/parkreserve/asp/style1/default.asp?npid=35&lg=2

[Jayman]

So one would expect to see a preliminary report from the RTP shortly then ?.....one assumes the speed in which bodies have been released means that the cause of death is not "detrimental" to Thailand tourist dollars...

The police have already stated that autopsy results will be released in two weeks... They must be in a bit of a bind on this matter. The normal modus operandi for the police is a quick autopsy, release a report saying the results are uncertain, cremate the body, and wait for everybody to forget about it. This is what happened to the last person who died in a mysterious fashion in Phi Phi........But now the full world media spotlight of attention is upon them, and the bodies are headed to Canada for what I can assume to be a very high level professional autopsy. So in essence the police autopsy will have to agree with the Canadian autopsy. Bet there is some head scratching going on in upper government circles.....

My comment was in repsonse to a post which was deleted which suggested preliminary autopsy had been completed and the remains of the deceased had been released for transfer back to Canada

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ers-bodies.html

Quebec sisters' bodies to arrive home from Thailand Thursday

Women may have been accidentally poisoned, Thai police say

The Canadian Press

Posted: Jun 20, 2012 5:07 PM ET Last Updated: Jun 20, 2012 9:33 PM ET

Edited June 21, 2012 by LivinginKata
remark about moderation removed

[Razzler1973]

This is terrible, 12 pages in we don't know anything. I read back a bunch but not all of it.

My initial feelings were some kind of liberal use of poisons to combat rats/insects that the girls somehow ingested, impossible to say of course and just speculation.

Reading all that magic mushroom stuff from a few pages back I can understand a guide giving them to travelers as that's the kind of thing travelers want. I remember being up in the North of Laos many years back and near enough everyone there just wanted a hit on the pipe in the hills.

I assume Mellow Mountain is still open in Haad Rin down South, they used to do Mushroom Shakes so this stuff happens but they do it all the time, I assume nothing untoward happening in Haad Rin full moon after full moon related to mushroom shakes.

Why on earth would people put ground up mossie coils in the shake to pass it off as shrooms? I mean the dangers of that, no one wants their customers falling ill, surely you'd put something else in or nothing and tell people that was a bad batch. I just struggle with the ground up mossie coil thing, seems bizaare

shrooms , is that a Yiddish word ?

too lazy to type 'mush'

[simple1]

Somewhere there is a list and we are now up to 12 westerners, mostly women all young and attractive , dying of something that causes extreme vomiting with all the related syndromes, mainly dehydration leading to heart conditions, etc. .

what I can't stand is all the speculation on causes based on what police Lt. Col SomChai thinks and what third rate medical personnel have speculated upon, and how reports are gleaning inaccuracies from these statements and reporting as facts.

Like that friend was merely repeating what she'd read, or the local gossip and then it gets regurgitated as a fact.

nails blue, yeah cause they were dead for a day or so . blood in the mouth? Or gums? about a zillion reasons for that.

I do find the one statement that has any kind of relevance from the head coroner interesting, about platelets not clotting - it all fits in with the prank, ( or maybe even more sinister motives, yes ) poisoning gone bad due to underlying health factors.

However gross misuse of a bed bug gas pellet also fits the known facts nicely and is more likely.

Either way Thailand can not be trusted to divulge any findings in an honest and open manner.

That unaware tourists remain horribly unaware of this culture's amazing propensity for dishonesty is what bothers me most. Dishonesty and ineptness. Massively

I do wish the Carter family had kept up the Thailand Travel Tragedy site.

And I also agree there is a concerted and deeply seated hatred of foreigners here.

May I also add, the "...gang from Chiang Mai.., " isn't from Chiang Mai but from Thai DDC and hopefully they're taking necessary testing samples, correctly.

The now established fact the women are young attractive and western in grossly disproportionate numbers leads me to a conclusion of deliberate.

What experiences had you had that lead you to the belief that Thai's have a deep seated hatred for foreigners?

if I were a family member of the deceased girls I would have a deep seated hatred of all the speculative posts on this site regarding the cause of their death; including references to drug taking. The Canadian government is working with the Thai authorities and still people post their comments. How about some respect for the family and just shut up.

Edited June 21, 2012 by simple1

[Soutpeel]

Somewhere there is a list and we are now up to 12 westerners, mostly women all young and attractive , dying of something that causes extreme vomiting with all the related syndromes, mainly dehydration leading to heart conditions, etc. .

what I can't stand is all the speculation on causes based on what police Lt. Col SomChai thinks and what third rate medical personnel have speculated upon, and how reports are gleaning inaccuracies from these statements and reporting as facts.

Like that friend was merely repeating what she'd read, or the local gossip and then it gets regurgitated as a fact.

nails blue, yeah cause they were dead for a day or so . blood in the mouth? Or gums? about a zillion reasons for that.

I do find the one statement that has any kind of relevance from the head coroner interesting, about platelets not clotting - it all fits in with the prank, ( or maybe even more sinister motives, yes ) poisoning gone bad due to underlying health factors.

However gross misuse of a bed bug gas pellet also fits the known facts nicely and is more likely.

Either way Thailand can not be trusted to divulge any findings in an honest and open manner.

That unaware tourists remain horribly unaware of this culture's amazing propensity for dishonesty is what bothers me most. Dishonesty and ineptness. Massively

I do wish the Carter family had kept up the Thailand Travel Tragedy site.

And I also agree there is a concerted and deeply seated hatred of foreigners here.

May I also add, the "...gang from Chiang Mai.., " isn't from Chiang Mai but from Thai DDC and hopefully they're taking necessary testing samples, correctly.

The now established fact the women are young attractive and western in grossly disproportionate numbers leads me to a conclusion of deliberate.

What experiences had you had that lead you to the belief that Thai's have a deep seated hatred for foreigners?

if I were a family member of the deceased girls I would have a deep seated hatred of all the speculative posts on this site regarding the cause of their death; including references to drug taking. The Canadian government is working with the Thai authorities and still people post their comments. How about some respect for the family and just shut up.

Agreed personall think this thread has gone too far, it should be closed for the time being and re-opened when further info becomes availible...I really feel for any family members/friends reading some the speculative <deleted> that has been posted to date...

[Notstupid30]

We will find out soon or later ..

Edited June 21, 2012 by metisdead
: Bold font removed.

[Amras]

Amazing that the reports on here say that results will be available in two weeks, yet my gf told me on thai news today they said they girls died having may different substances/chemicals in their body. GO figure.

[Jayman]

Amazing that the reports on here say that results will be available in two weeks, yet my gf told me on thai news today they said they girls died having may different substances/chemicals in their body. GO figure.

We all have different substances/chemicals in our body. Without specifically stating the names of said substances/chemicals that is a totally worthless statement that was made.

[Soutpeel]

Amazing that the reports on here say that results will be available in two weeks, yet my gf told me on thai news today they said they girls died having may different substances/chemicals in their body. GO figure.

We all have different substances/chemicals in our body. Without specifically stating the names of said substances/chemicals that is a totally worthless statement that was made.

And you would expect anything else from the BiB/Thai news ?....if it does turn out to be some form of "chemical" it will turn out that said chemical is produced by a foreign company, therefore it will be the farang companies fault......

[dingdang]

something inside the bodies was found... its a step in the right direction...

[Amras]

Amazing that the reports on here say that results will be available in two weeks, yet my gf told me on thai news today they said they girls died having may different substances/chemicals in their body. GO figure.

We all have different substances/chemicals in our body. Without specifically stating the names of said substances/chemicals that is a totally worthless statement that was made.

And you would expect anything else from the BiB/Thai news ?....if it does turn out to be some form of "chemical" it will turn out that said chemical is produced by a foreign company, therefore it will be the farang companies fault......

Yeh and the problem is they start to believe it, it also stated that they had already done the tests (and had the results) hence there were many different drugs in the body. Led into an argument of me saying can't have the results its not true etc etc. (I studied chemistry and biochemistry so know this from experience as well). Yet, there was still a sense of well the news said it so it might be a possibility (couldn't agree the news was a lie/not the truth).

Still need to try teach her out of the thai's are right auto defensiveness that Thai's seem to have (and in no way am I bashing Thai's, we all have flaws it's just one thing they seem to 'inherit'). . No different to many outside of Thailand blindly following the media, but seems on a different scale here. Hopefully I can open her eyes one day.

[Johpa]

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ...

The body has a wonderful and robust defense system against tainted food. Food poisoning that requires hospitalization and/or medical care beyond a simple prescription and some advice, is not a common malady anywhere. I, as well as many other posters to these boards, have traveled extensively in less developed areas and have had plenty of experience with minor tummy issues that required us to remain close to the hong naam (water closet) for a day or two. Call that what you will, but I don't call it food poisoning. But to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one here so far to have experienced serious food poisoning that required professional medical care and that instance occured in a developed country.

[dingdang]

its more than likely, that they took ibuprofen, every painkiller available... they had hours of dieing to go...

and much pain, they actually seem to have died in cramped positions, unable to relax in any way - till the end...

this was a horrible dead and as long as possible, they might have taken what had with them.. painkillers, stomach problems, diarrhoe things...

yes, a lot of drugs in the system... a spin for the dumb...

[Amras]

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ...

The body has a wonderful and robust defense system against tainted food. Food poisoning that requires hospitalization and/or medical care beyond a simple prescription and some advice, is not a common malady anywhere. I, as well as many other posters to these boards, have traveled extensively in less developed areas and have had plenty of experience with minor tummy issues that required us to remain close to the hong naam (water closet) for a day or two. Call that what you will, but I don't call it food poisoning. But to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one here so far to have experienced serious food poisoning that required professional medical care and that instance occured in a developed country.

So true.....you will feel like crap for a few days, but most will recover, from memory most who require hospitalisation from food poisoning are usually the old, young or have some type of immune compromisation. The only type of food poisoning that can result in a quick detah is if the food is tainted with bacteria producing a highly toxic endotoxin, like Botulism. It can kill in a matter of hours if the bacteria are present in the food (or days if its ingested spores). Simple to determine if a microbiological examination is done (if it was a bacterial poisoning), 65% of people who ingest botulism will die (it's LD50 (lethal dose at 50% is really low, like only 0.8ug of the stuff will kill an average size person!). It's a neurological toxin though, so doesn't sound like what killed them, but speculation, I haven't seen a lot of Thai's use preserved foods, so food poisoning seems highly unlikely.

On the news report it said the girls were apparently partying at the full moon party, did I miss that in the original report? Hence the link with drugs....yet this report says food poisoning.

"Dr Komkrit Phukrittayakami, director of Krabi Hospital, said that from the condition of the bodies, it was likely the deaths were caused by contaminated food, but an autopsy would be required to discover whether this was seafood, mushrooms or chemical substances."

I can't believe a medical examiner is saying this it jumps to conclusions without any real evidence (or they didn't report it). What supports food poisoning or food poisoning as a cover up for drug poisoning? Don't know what chemical you can add to food that will cause you to die. overdose on MSG?

Told my dad, if I die in Thailand get my body back to Australia ASAP.

[meand]

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ...

The body has a wonderful and robust defense system against tainted food. Food poisoning that requires hospitalization and/or medical care beyond a simple prescription and some advice, is not a common malady anywhere. I, as well as many other posters to these boards, have traveled extensively in less developed areas and have had plenty of experience with minor tummy issues that required us to remain close to the hong naam (water closet) for a day or two. Call that what you will, but I don't call it food poisoning. But to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one here so far to have experienced serious food poisoning that required professional medical care and that instance occured in a developed country.

So true.....you will feel like crap for a few days, but most will recover, from memory most who require hospitalisation from food poisoning are usually the old, young or have some type of immune compromisation. The only type of food poisoning that can result in a quick detah is if the food is tainted with bacteria producing a highly toxic endotoxin, like Botulism. It can kill in a matter of hours if the bacteria are present in the food (or days if its ingested spores). Simple to determine if a microbiological examination is done (if it was a bacterial poisoning), 65% of people who ingest botulism will die (it's LD50 (lethal dose at 50% is really low, like only 0.8ug of the stuff will kill an average size person!). It's a neurological toxin though, so doesn't sound like what killed them, but speculation, I haven't seen a lot of Thai's use preserved foods, so food poisoning seems highly unlikely.

On the news report it said the girls were apparently partying at the full moon party, did I miss that in the original report? Hence the link with drugs....yet this report says food poisoning.

"Dr Komkrit Phukrittayakami, director of Krabi Hospital, said that from the condition of the bodies, it was likely the deaths were caused by contaminated food, but an autopsy would be required to discover whether this was seafood, mushrooms or chemical substances."

I can't believe a medical examiner is saying this it jumps to conclusions without any real evidence (or they didn't report it). What supports food poisoning or food poisoning as a cover up for drug poisoning? Don't know what chemical you can add to food that will cause you to die. overdose on MSG?

Told my dad, if I die in Thailand get my body back to Australia ASAP.

Or note on body "if you are a Thai doctor, please do not do so much as touch my body, dead or alive"

[Amras]

its more than likely, that they took ibuprofen, every painkiller available... they had hours of dieing to go...

and much pain, they actually seem to have died in cramped positions, unable to relax in any way - till the end...

this was a horrible dead and as long as possible, they might have taken what had with them.. painkillers, stomach problems, diarrhoe things...

yes, a lot of drugs in the system... a spin for the dumb...

I doubt they were overdosing on ibuprofen. As said before it takes a hell of a lot of it to overdose and MOST reasonable educate people know not to od on medication.

The only thing I can say is I took ibuprofen and travel sickness medication before going on a plane. Dont do that. I was freaking out hallucinating, sweating and thought I was going to die. Only lasted 30 minutes.

Too many inconsistances with Thai TV, english reports etc, it seems one news for the Thai's (falang od on drugs 'again') and one for the english (accidental food poisoning). I love Thailand, and the people are great, but the politicians and those high up. Much to be desired.

[Hellhound66]

its more than likely, that they took ibuprofen, every painkiller available... they had hours of dieing to go...

and much pain, they actually seem to have died in cramped positions, unable to relax in any way - till the end...

this was a horrible dead and as long as possible, they might have taken what had with them.. painkillers, stomach problems, diarrhoe things...

yes, a lot of drugs in the system... a spin for the dumb...

I doubt they were overdosing on ibuprofen. As said before it takes a hell of a lot of it to overdose and MOST reasonable educate people know not to od on medication.

The only thing I can say is I took ibuprofen and travel sickness medication before going on a plane. Dont do that. I was freaking out hallucinating, sweating and thought I was going to die. Only lasted 30 minutes.

Too many inconsistances with Thai TV, english reports etc, it seems one news for the Thai's (falang od on drugs 'again') and one for the english (accidental food poisoning). I love Thailand, and the people are great, but the politicians and those high up. Much to be desired.

As I said on the other thread, they meet Samantha Kay who is a bar pimp for Velvet Dojo. They party all night drinking loads of buckets and maybe popping some pills. All three of them get sick - the Canadians get back to their room and pop some ibuprofen which mixed together with the vast quantity of alcohol and whatever else causes severe stomach bleeding and they die. The cops also said right at the beginning that there were other prescription drugs in the room. Severe stomach bleeding can cause cyanosis, bleeding from the mouth and bruising on the body. Ibuprofen can also cause vomiting and rashes if mixed with alcohol.

Samantha Kay takes herself off to the hospital and they keep here there for 3 days with suspected food poisoning and dehydration (I doubt food poisoning - maybe saengsom poisoning ;-) And no one seems to think this Kay woman is important. She was most likely the last person to interact with them. She was partying with them before they died-Jeez someone needs to talk to this girl.

Imagination or logical thought process?

Edited June 21, 2012 by Hellhound66

[Nisa]

Amazing that the reports on here say that results will be available in two weeks, yet my gf told me on thai news today they said they girls died having may different substances/chemicals in their body. GO figure.

We all have different substances/chemicals in our body. Without specifically stating the names of said substances/chemicals that is a totally worthless statement that was made.

And you would expect anything else from the BiB/Thai news ?....if it does turn out to be some form of "chemical" it will turn out that said chemical is produced by a foreign company, therefore it will be the farang companies fault......

It takes weeks anywhere for toxicology tests to be completed after an autopsy. I suspect the GF may have misunderstood in terms of there being reports of many OTC drugs in the room.

[Nisa]

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ...

The body has a wonderful and robust defense system against tainted food. Food poisoning that requires hospitalization and/or medical care beyond a simple prescription and some advice, is not a common malady anywhere. I, as well as many other posters to these boards, have traveled extensively in less developed areas and have had plenty of experience with minor tummy issues that required us to remain close to the hong naam (water closet) for a day or two. Call that what you will, but I don't call it food poisoning. But to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one here so far to have experienced serious food poisoning that required professional medical care and that instance occured in a developed country.

I was hospitalized many years ago in the US (as have many people) for food poisoning. And when you go to the hospital in the US with severe stomach pain, vomiting and diarrhea, you are usually told they can't tell if it is a stomach virus or food poisoning until time passes. Food poisoning generally clears up in a couple days and a virus could take a week. It really is not that uncommon for people to end up in an Emergency room at some point in their life for stomach ailments. I mean who hasn't had the runs and throwing up and stomach cramps?

By the way, you are taking my post out of context (not sure why) but the original post made absolutely no indication I thought these girls had food poisoning. It was a reply to somebody else regarding people in the hospital there with food poisoning and as I stated before, people here go to the hospital for the smallest of problems and not to a doctors office. The hospitals are as cheap as clinics and offer more drugs and treatment options with more staff.

And regardless of what you think, it is common knowledge that food poisoning of westerns is common in less developed countries when people eat and drink as the locals do. In fact one of the leading causes of death in less developed nations is diarrhea. As people get older the develop resistance but if you are not from an area, your resistance to that bacteria is slight.

As I have stated previously I highly doubt these girls died of food poisoning. One of the biggest things I find suspect is they never called for help but were staying in an upscale hotel.

[annabel]

So one would expect to see a preliminary report from the RTP shortly then ?.....one assumes the speed in which bodies have been released means that the cause of death is not "detrimental" to Thailand tourist dollars...

The police have already stated that autopsy results will be released in two weeks... They must be in a bit of a bind on this matter. The normal modus operandi for the police is a quick autopsy, release a report saying the results are uncertain, cremate the body, and wait for everybody to forget about it. This is what happened to the last person who died in a mysterious fashion in Phi Phi........But now for what I can assume to be a very high level professional autopsy. So in essence the police autopsy will have to agree with the Canadian autopsy. Bet there is some head scratching going on in upper government circles.....

And what is the point of sending the bodies back to canada for a professional autopsy at this point ...NOW!!! ....Over a week later ad in what condition were the bodies whent they finally got to Bangkok 1 week later , after these poor girls dies ???? !! and which have been tampered with ..>>> Pluueeaase ... Canada as Australia in the Chiang Mai similar deaths, will not be able to come up with anything because all the foreinsic evidences on the bodies have been removed by the autopsies conducted here in Bangkok and yet after 6 days of them being dead which in itself is detremental to a proper autopsy and foreinsic evidence... everything has already been WHITE WASHED AND GONE !!

"the full world media spotlight of attention is upon them, and the bodies are headed to Canada"... soory but so totally irrelevant because of reasons stated above and which just +++ the fact that they don't care and know that they are home free for reasons once again stated above... case closed !! Done till the next bout!!

[annabel]

So one would expect to see a preliminary report from the RTP shortly then ?.....one assumes the speed in which bodies have been released means that the cause of death is not "detrimental" to Thailand tourist dollars...

The police have already stated that autopsy results will be released in two weeks... They must be in a bit of a bind on this matter. The normal modus operandi for the police is a quick autopsy, release a report saying the results are uncertain, cremate the body, and wait for everybody to forget about it. This is what happened to the last person who died in a mysterious fashion in Phi Phi........But now the full world media spotlight of attention is upon them, and the bodies are headed to Canada for what I can assume to be a very high level professional autopsy. So in essence the police autopsy will have to agree with the Canadian autopsy. Bet there is some head scratching going on in upper government circles.....

My comment was in repsonse to a post which was deleted which suggested preliminary autopsy had been completed and the remains of the deceased had been released for transfer back to Canada

EXACTLY ... The REMAINS of the bodies after the butchering done here in Bangkok are being sent back to Canada... for what purpose ..?? Should have been sent ther first before the tampering ... Man!! This is so frustrating .. Canada as i said before will not find anything ore in an already dissected body .. Pfff!!

[ttelise]

^{I disagree with posters who said what we are doing would upset the family.}

^{Provided we are not sensationalizing or attcking their daughters' integrity, I think they would be hapy that someone actually cares.}

[ttelise]

So one would expect to see a preliminary report from the RTP shortly then ?.....one assumes the speed in which bodies have been released means that the cause of death is not "detrimental" to Thailand tourist dollars...

The police have already stated that autopsy results will be released in two weeks... They must be in a bit of a bind on this matter. The normal modus operandi for the police is a quick autopsy, release a report saying the results are uncertain, cremate the body, and wait for everybody to forget about it. This is what happened to the last person who died in a mysterious fashion in Phi Phi........But now the full world media spotlight of attention is upon them, and the bodies are headed to Canada for what I can assume to be a very high level professional autopsy. So in essence the police autopsy will have to agree with the Canadian autopsy. Bet there is some head scratching going on in upper government circles.....

My comment was in repsonse to a post which was deleted which suggested preliminary autopsy had been completed and the remains of the deceased had been released for transfer back to Canada

EXACTLY ... The REMAINS of the bodies after the butchering done here in Bangkok are being sent back to Canada... for what purpose ..?? Should have been sent ther first before the tampering ... Man!! This is so frustrating .. Canada as i said before will not find anything ore in an already dissected body .. Pfff!!

I think it will be fine. I know for a fact that forsenic examinations in US are very accurate even when bodies are in an advanced state of decomposition or even after animals have eaten. Sorry for being graphic, but I think you get the point. It is amazing what they can do here. They can pretty much nail cause of death with just a few bones and some hair.

Now what is screwed up, is the tainting of evidence at the scene should the forensic examination turn up something unusual. Thatw as a complete and utter hack job that defies logic. They let them clean and perhaps even put new people in there and then the BiB goes back in to do an investigation. Seriously, Why even bother at this juncture.

[annabel]

Amazing that the reports on here say that results will be available in two weeks, yet my gf told me on thai news today they said they girls died having may different substances/chemicals in their body. GO figure.

Ok... but they died in a very identical way Nah ?? So...??? and sorry but please translate what this means "said they girls died having may different substances/chemicals in their body"....??

Edited June 21, 2012 by annabel

[ttelise]

its more than likely, that they took ibuprofen, every painkiller available... they had hours of dieing to go...

and much pain, they actually seem to have died in cramped positions, unable to relax in any way - till the end...

this was a horrible dead and as long as possible, they might have taken what had with them.. painkillers, stomach problems, diarrhoe things...

yes, a lot of drugs in the system... a spin for the dumb...

I doubt they were overdosing on ibuprofen. As said before it takes a hell of a lot of it to overdose and MOST reasonable educate people know not to od on medication.

The only thing I can say is I took ibuprofen and travel sickness medication before going on a plane. Dont do that. I was freaking out hallucinating, sweating and thought I was going to die. Only lasted 30 minutes.

Too many inconsistances with Thai TV, english reports etc, it seems one news for the Thai's (falang od on drugs 'again') and one for the english (accidental food poisoning). I love Thailand, and the people are great, but the politicians and those high up. Much to be desired.

As I said on the other thread, they meet Samantha Kay who is a bar pimp for Velvet Dojo. They party all night drinking loads of buckets and maybe popping some pills. All three of them get sick - the Canadians get back to their room and pop some ibuprofen which mixed together with the vast quantity of alcohol and whatever else causes severe stomach bleeding and they die. The cops also said right at the beginning that there were other prescription drugs in the room. Severe stomach bleeding can cause cyanosis, bleeding from the mouth and bruising on the body. Ibuprofen can also cause vomiting and rashes if mixed with alcohol.

Samantha Kay takes herself off to the hospital and they keep here there for 3 days with suspected food poisoning and dehydration (I doubt food poisoning - maybe saengsom poisoning ;-) And no one seems to think this Kay woman is important. She was most likely the last person to interact with them. She was partying with them before they died-Jeez someone needs to talk to this girl.

Imagination or logical thought process?

Seriously, why do you insist on saying these girls died merely because they stayed up all night drining and poping ibuprofen? I have done extensive studies on the efficacy and risks associated with all of the NSAIDs and over the counter pain relievers as I was involved deeply in the Vioxx and Celebrex mass tort litigation. You are way off base.

The Scot girl reported that doctors diagnosed her with food poisoning and a 3 day stay for food poisoning is about right, especially for camplobactor, slamonella, or botulism. Interesting how you can diagnosis her and disagree with her doctor's diagnosis when you have not seen her, spoken to her, reviewed her medical records or evaluated her.

If she was in just for a night of partying and a bout of dehydration, they would perhaps do some charcol, run a coule of bags of saline and sodium chloride and release within 12 or 24 hours. Only keep that long if a bacterium or nasty viral issue is present.

[annabel]

I think it will be fine. I know for a fact that forsenic examinations in US are very accurate even when bodies are in an advanced state of decomposition or even after animals have eaten. Sorry for being graphic, but I think you get the point. It is amazing what they can do here. They can pretty much nail cause of death with just a few bones and some hair.

Now what is screwed up, is the tainting of evidence at the scene should the forensic examination turn up something unusual. Thatw as a complete and utter hack job that defies logic. They let them clean and perhaps even put new people in there and then the BiB goes back in to do an investigation. Seriously, Why even bother at this juncture.

Think you are watching too much .. and like way too much CSI ... That is certainly not the real world by any stretch of the imagination here in LOS.. but yeah. would be nice to have such porfesional investigators ... Boy do we need them here in Thailand .... And sooo badly and so NOW!!!.... ///

[mommysboy]

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ...

The body has a wonderful and robust defense system against tainted food. Food poisoning that requires hospitalization and/or medical care beyond a simple prescription and some advice, is not a common malady anywhere. I, as well as many other posters to these boards, have traveled extensively in less developed areas and have had plenty of experience with minor tummy issues that required us to remain close to the hong naam (water closet) for a day or two. Call that what you will, but I don't call it food poisoning. But to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one here so far to have experienced serious food poisoning that required professional medical care and that instance occured in a developed country.

In Thailand it is normal to hospitalise someone suffering from food poisoning, as a big danger is dehydration, thus one is usually placed on an intravenous drip, and when vomiting has subsided and ORS are being accepted orally you are discharged. This was my early experience and it happens to quite a few people when first in Thailand.

The bug in question need not be E.Coli, because if you ingest enough tainted food then the toxins can make you vomit severely. In hot weather countries bacteria multiply rapidly so the food can be loaded with toxins in a short space of time.

Thus, I contend your post is inaccurate.

[ttelise]

I think it will be fine. I know for a fact that forsenic examinations in US are very accurate even when bodies are in an advanced state of decomposition or even after animals have eaten. Sorry for being graphic, but I think you get the point. It is amazing what they can do here. They can pretty much nail cause of death with just a few bones and some hair.

Now what is screwed up, is the tainting of evidence at the scene should the forensic examination turn up something unusual. Thatw as a complete and utter hack job that defies logic. They let them clean and perhaps even put new people in there and then the BiB goes back in to do an investigation. Seriously, Why even bother at this juncture.

Think you are watching too much .. and like way too much CSI ... That is certainly not the real world by any stretch of the imagination here in LOS.. but yeah. would be nice to have such porfesional investigators ... Boy do we need them here in Thailand .... And sooo badly and so NOW!!!.... ///

Don't watch CSI. I only watch Bravo Orange county housewifes and the weather channel.

I depose forsensic pathologist pretty frequently. These guys are pretty sharp. There is a body farm at UT KNoxville where they go and unearth skeleton remains and perform investigations into the remains to determine who they were and cause of death. Really gross, but amazing nonetheless.

[ttelise]

What are these people sucking at the hospital? Is that a treatment for food poisoning, which is common when visiting another country, especially a less developed one ...

The body has a wonderful and robust defense system against tainted food. Food poisoning that requires hospitalization and/or medical care beyond a simple prescription and some advice, is not a common malady anywhere. I, as well as many other posters to these boards, have traveled extensively in less developed areas and have had plenty of experience with minor tummy issues that required us to remain close to the hong naam (water closet) for a day or two. Call that what you will, but I don't call it food poisoning. But to the best of my knowledge, I am the only one here so far to have experienced serious food poisoning that required professional medical care and that instance occured in a developed country.

In Thailand it is normal to hospitalise someone suffering from food poisoning, as a big danger is dehydration, thus one is usually placed on an intravenous drip, and when vomiting has subsided and ORS are being accepted orally you are discharged. This was my early experience and it happens to quite a few people when first in Thailand.

The bug in question need not be E.Coli, because if you ingest enough tainted food then the toxins can make you vomit severely. In hot weather countries bacteria multiply rapidly so the food can be loaded with toxins in a short space of time.

Thus, I contend your post is inaccurate.

If the presentation is simply dehydration, they probably could be treated in the ER and released within 4 to 6 hours if young and healthy. They would simply run maybe two bags of Saline and/or soduim chloride and send them on their way.

Hospitalizations in the states generally would only occur if presentation of dehydration was secondary to a massive infection or sepsis requiring IV antibiotics (give oral otherwise) or was secondary to something like food poisoning where bacterium must be treated or IV fluids must be constantly administered until the bug/bacteria runs its course because the patient cannot maintain adequate hydration orally.

Partying ain't going to do that. All food posioning ain't going to that. Most food poisoning can runs its course in normal healthy adults. Camplobactor or Almonella perhaps from raw poutlry can be pareticularly nasty to some though.

Edited June 21, 2012 by ttelise

[Nisa]

Canadian officials said that report contained several inaccuracies. They said diplomats never asked anyone to delay the autopsies, said the autopsies had already been completed, and that the family had no plans to travel to Thailand. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/06/20/thailand-sisters-bodies.html?cmp=rss