Moving To Thailand...How Hard Can It Be?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I think quite many expats in Thailand are in the oil off-shore industrie so we work all over the world 6 month a year and have relatively well paid jobs.

Many perhaps. However I believe those expats living in Thailand on western-standard salaries would be a small fraction of the total; most are either not working at all or living hand-to-mouth employed as teachers.

Yes agree with keeping the bulk your funds out of Thailand if the shit hits the fan (politics - marriage gone bad or whatever reason) and not easy to move them out if you want.

To the extent one has any significant assets to protect I wholeheartedly agree.

I think many find it difficult to get a reasonable return from those assets in order to provide passive income, but of course that's another issue.

[GreenSnapper]

Yes, if you are paying a woman, who owns nothing, a wage to be with you, you will need a lot more.

Some of us choose more wisely, and can consequently live on a lot less.

Costs of women are neglectable here, unless you need to pay your barfines regularly.

My calculation also doesn't mean you have to spend all that money. You have to have it available, that's the point. Due to inflation, devaluation, health problems or other unforeseen events.

[phuturatica]

Moving to Thailand can vary in degrees of difficulty depending on the person themselves.

If you're planning on retiring in Thailand then I guess its less of a hassle. However if you wish to make a living out here it's very different. Also for me personally, I had a lot of things to sort out first before I moved here. For example, because of my health I had to jump through a few hoops before I could finally make the move.

Also I think it can be difficult mentally. Are you doing the right thing or is this a completely crazy idea?

I am about to go on dialysis for my kidney failure so am I being stupid moving here? Should I have stayed in the UK? Or was I right to enjoy myself and do what I wanted to before I become too ill to do so?! These are all things I've had to battle mentally when making the move to Thailand.

I agree the open ended questions can be a little annoying but you remember that majority who ask mainly just want a rough idea so they have some idea rather than none. What is worse? Someone who has done at least a little bit of research or someone who has no clue?!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Costs of women are neglectable here, unless you need to pay your barfines regularly.

Even without bar fines, I know many many men whose "female-related" expenses both direct and indirect are well over half the monthly total, far from negligible.

You have to include costs incurred looking, as well as acquisition, maintenance and severance costs - basically everything you wouldn't have to spend anymore after a bunny-boiler feeds it to the ducks.

Very few of my friends get away with less than 15K per month, even those struggling as teachers. . .

[RAZZELL]

What's the big deal?

I've got a few friends who've live in different countries?

RAZZ

[Naam]

My preference is to learn as much as I can about the other team and take advantage of their weaknesses while protecting my own vulnerabilities. Makes for a better game in my opinion. It is a choice but I see it as a major game changer when you are competing on someone else’s turf.

other team? taking advantage of their weaknesses? game? can you give me one valid reason why i would want to compete and play games with the locals?

I don't think vf is talking about direct competition or game-playing per se, but just the normal negotiations that are required living as a member of the community.

I think it likely that you don't need to interact as directly as your luxurious standard of living insulates you, in effect you're paying English-speaking middlemen to remove the burden of dealing with service providers directly in most cases.

Most of us either can't afford to do this, or perhaps even prefer to spend less money so we have more so spend on things that benefit us more directly - that is what speaking Thai buys you. In your case it's true, completely unnecessary when you think B120,000 per month to be a low-end budget in the LOS.

pardon me BigJohnny but i can't read VF's thoughts, have the handicap that English is my third language and therefore limit myself to interprete words to the best of my ability. moreover, being a Klingon not a diplomat i don't mince words and speak out what i think and when something itches me i scratch. talking about language. i'm sure the number of years VF and some other have spent in Thailand made them fluent in Thai. however, based on my research Thai is a language with very limited possibilities of expressing "nuances".

even though the grammar seems to be, compared to other languages, quite simple the difficult pronunciation of a tonal language and the lack to express two dozen shades of grey which exist between black and white made me think "why bother?" i master half a dozen languages fluently including script and among them is one with limitations similar to Thai and simple sentences open to a variety of interpretations. this thread "moving to Th" is supposed to assist those who are planning a move. most of them are retirees, well beyond their 30s or 40s but more like 50s or 60s. their remaining statistical lifetime does not allow 30 years of adopting a language. a Thai acquaintance of mine (my next door neighbour) endorses whatever i have stated and claim that during his life time he has never met a foreigner who mastered the language to a degree which allows discussing problems and complex situations.

that i am using "middlemen" for negotiations was true years ago, but not anymore. i can very well handle negotiations with local craftsmen who (in this area) have at least some rudimentary knowledge of English. and those who have done repeatedly jobs for me know that asking double or triple (or more) Farang prices won't earn them a single Satang. yes, i am paying more, perhaps much more, than the Farang who squeezes a local pricewise. but based on my experience in Thailand too the expression "you get what you pay for" applies in most cases.

budget: i don't dare to judge a budget "low or high" because expenses are individually different, not only depending on demands but also on the individuals or his family's situation and last not least on his financial means. in other words, i might consider a budget of half a million Baht per month as modest and at the same time judge a 100k Baht budget as excessive and senseless waste.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

My preference is to learn as much as I can about the other team and take advantage of their weaknesses while protecting my own vulnerabilities. Makes for a better game in my opinion. It is a choice but I see it as a major game changer when you are competing on someone else’s turf.

other team? taking advantage of their weaknesses? game? can you give me one valid reason why i would want to compete and play games with the locals?

I don't think vf is talking about direct competition or game-playing per se, but just the normal negotiations that are required living as a member of the community.

I think it likely that you don't need to interact as directly as your luxurious standard of living insulates you, in effect you're paying English-speaking middlemen to remove the burden of dealing with service providers directly in most cases.

Most of us either can't afford to do this, or perhaps even prefer to spend less money so we have more so spend on things that benefit us more directly - that is what speaking Thai buys you. In your case it's true, completely unnecessary when you think B120,000 per month to be a low-end budget in the LOS.

pardon me BigJohnny but i can't read VF's thoughts, have the handicap that English is my third language and therefore limit myself to interprete words to the best of my ability. moreover, being a Klingon not a diplomat i don't mince words and speak out what i think and when something itches me i scratch. talking about language. i'm sure the number of years VF and some other have spent in Thailand made them fluent in Thai. however, based on my research Thai is a language with very limited possibilities of expressing "nuances".

even though the grammar seems to be, compared to other languages, quite simple the difficult pronunciation of a tonal language and the lack to express two dozen shades of grey which exist between black and white made me think "why bother?" i master half a dozen languages fluently including script and among them is one with limitations similar to Thai and simple sentences open to a variety of interpretations. this thread "moving to Th" is supposed to assist those who are planning a move. most of them are retirees, well beyond their 30s or 40s but more like 50s or 60s. their remaining statistical lifetime does not allow 30 years of adopting a language. a Thai acquaintance of mine (my next door neighbour) endorses whatever i have stated and claim that during his life time he has never met a foreigner who mastered the language to a degree which allows discussing problems and complex situations.

that i am using "middlemen" for negotiations was true years ago, but not anymore. i can very well handle negotiations with local craftsmen who (in this area) have at least some rudimentary knowledge of English. and those who have done repeatedly jobs for me know that asking double or triple (or more) Farang prices won't earn them a single Satang. yes, i am paying more, perhaps much more, than the Farang who squeezes a local pricewise. but based on my experience in Thailand too the expression "you get what you pay for" applies in most cases.

budget: i don't dare to judge a budget "low or high" because expenses are individually different, not only depending on demands but also on the individuals or his family's situation and last not least on his financial means. in other words, i might consider a budget of half a million Baht per month as modest and at the same time judge a 100k Baht budget as excessive and senseless waste.

I was just helping to answer your question clarifying what I thought VF meant since his wording was idiomatic.

And as you acknowledge, your need to deal with English-speaking tradesmen means you pay a bit more (or perhaps a lot more) for their services, although to you it's cheap and fair, to those concerned about getting maximum value for money and able/willing to learn Thai that investment will pay off.

Some people find it easier than others, even at 70+ years old if you are living here full time and make the effort IMO it's usually worthwhile.

Having SOs that speak not a word of English will of course help accelerate the process, but of course that's a side benefit of other-goal strategies here that others find distasteful. . .

[thaibeachlovers]

Very wise words IMO, and if your desire to move here is fueled by dreams planted by a Thai wife then I can pretty much guarantee reality won't seem nearly as rosy.

You are the man, do as you think is best for the family unit. Obviously do your best to keep/make her happy as well, but that should not include moving to anywhere less than six hours' travel to her family seat or you will lose your rightful place as head of the house.

And it's quite possible you'll lose a lot more than that. She agreed to go along with you in your life, be careful you don't turn the steering wheel over unless you're willing to become a passenger.

Hmmmm. Having been the solo driver of my life, it's nice to sit in the passenger seat and let someone else drive for a change.

Of course, one has to not hand over the ownership papers of the car as well, in case one becomes left at the next roadside diner, as she drives off into the sunset.

A willingness to cast one's fate to the wind is also helpful, as 2 people can't drive at the same time.

[samsiam]

Knowing the language to a very good level...will make life here a lot easier.

You may not need to be fluent to a great extent., but a good level will help you no end.

Anyone that disagrees is burying there head in the sand obviously.

I speak from a sandpit with several very fluent friends.

[thaibeachlovers]

Knowing the language to a very good level...will make life here a lot easier.

You may not need to be fluent to a great extent., but a good level will help you no end.

Anyone that disagrees is burying there head in the sand obviously.

I speak from a sandpit with several very fluent friends.

Unfortunately, Thai is a very difficult language to learn, so I have basically given up getting frustrated over something that's not going to happen.

However, in many many years of travelling and living in Thailand, I have never had a serious problem. I am able to speak very basic Thai, though not at a conversational level.

Either live in a tourist area like Pattaya, or find a friendly translator.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Hmmmm. Having been the solo driver of my life, it's nice to sit in the passenger seat and let someone else drive for a change.

Of course, one has to not hand over the ownership papers of the car as well, in case one becomes left at the next roadside diner, as she drives off into the sunset.

A willingness to cast one's fate to the wind is also helpful, as 2 people can't drive at the same time.

The problem isn't so much letting the SO drive once in a while, it's when she's taking advice from all the rellies in the back seat, or when everyone in the car agrees about the right road to take (that you think is heading right over a cliff).

But I'd love to find a decent diner in the LoS, please let me know if you find one.

Unfortunately, Thai is a very difficult language to learn, so I have basically given up getting frustrated over something that's not going to happen.

Difficult perhaps but if you're really going to live here for more than say five years, I'd say devoting the necessary hours.

If you're working, doing more than five hours over say three sessions a week might be enough to make decent progress, but I personally prefer going intense, at least ten hours sometimes a lot more for a few months at a time and make non-incremental leaps in improvement.

The key IMO is having Thais that are important in your life that don't have one jot of English.

[jamescollister]

Costs of women are neglectable here, unless you need to pay your barfines regularly.

Even without bar fines, I know many many men whose "female-related" expenses both direct and indirect are well over half the monthly total, far from negligible.

You have to include costs incurred looking, as well as acquisition, maintenance and severance costs - basically everything you wouldn't have to spend anymore after a bunny-boiler feeds it to the ducks.

Very few of my friends get away with less than 15K per month, even those struggling as teachers. . .

My female expenses are well over 1/2 the income. I have a wife and 2 daughters, don't think 15 k would cover the fuel and ice cream bill. Jim

[samsiam]

Knowing the language to a very good level...will make life here a lot easier.

You may not need to be fluent to a great extent., but a good level will help you no end.

Anyone that disagrees is burying there head in the sand obviously.

I speak from a sandpit with several very fluent friends.

Unfortunately, Thai is a very difficult language to learn, so I have basically given up getting frustrated over something that's not going to happen.

However, in many many years of travelling and living in Thailand, I have never had a serious problem. I am able to speak very basic Thai, though not at a conversational level.

Either live in a tourist area like Pattaya, or find a friendly translator.

Agree.

Also the older you get and old timers disease sets in...you will just forget it all anyway...so whats the point right ??

[thaibeachlovers]

Knowing the language to a very good level...will make life here a lot easier.

You may not need to be fluent to a great extent., but a good level will help you no end.

Anyone that disagrees is burying there head in the sand obviously.

I speak from a sandpit with several very fluent friends.

Unfortunately, Thai is a very difficult language to learn, so I have basically given up getting frustrated over something that's not going to happen.

However, in many many years of travelling and living in Thailand, I have never had a serious problem. I am able to speak very basic Thai, though not at a conversational level.

Either live in a tourist area like Pattaya, or find a friendly translator.

Agree.

Also the older you get and old timers disease sets in...you will just forget it all anyway...so whats the point right ??

Absolutely agree.

In the good old days when I was working and only visiting LOS, I'd learn a lot, then go back to work and forget it. Now I have the time to learn and even the opportunity to use it should I wish, but what I learn one day is gone the next, LOL!

[thaibeachlovers]

Hmmmm. Having been the solo driver of my life, it's nice to sit in the passenger seat and let someone else drive for a change.

Of course, one has to not hand over the ownership papers of the car as well, in case one becomes left at the next roadside diner, as she drives off into the sunset.

A willingness to cast one's fate to the wind is also helpful, as 2 people can't drive at the same time.

The problem isn't so much letting the SO drive once in a while, it's when she's taking advice from all the rellies in the back seat, or when everyone in the car agrees about the right road to take (that you think is heading right over a cliff).

But I'd love to find a decent diner in the LoS, please let me know if you find one.

No rellies in our back seat! If there were, she knows that she'll be the one left at the diner along with them.

Casting my fate to the wind, doesn't include leaving my brain behind at the car dealership.

You can afford to eat at diners???? Some people are lucky, LOL.

Fortunately, my wife is an excellent cook.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Costs of women are neglectable here, unless you need to pay your barfines regularly.

My female expenses are well over 1/2 the income. I have a wife and 2 daughters, don't think 15 k would cover the fuel and ice cream bill. Jim

Yes, kids certainly make the point even more true. Although we're not in the same league absolutely, proportionally true for me as well.

For me, since my kids' mum isn't around anymore I do keep the long-term-consequence "family" expenses separate from the more discretionary "current affairs" accounts, as the latter is a lot easier to keep under control or even cut out altogether if necessary.

[jubby]

Finally the truth. So lets have the Book. Cabin Crew Girls, Expats Wives and managing to invest in the stock market and survive the financial crisis unlike a lot of us. Could make you a nice little nest Egg seeing as you have no pension

Lets not be crass, shall we?

The Book doesn't have to be Crass. I'm getting a little older and although in the earlier years I would have took a Matok to a guy who was sleeping with my wife whilst i was working offshore, these days I realise these things go on, and although I never heard the story or rumor it takes two to tango. And Well, I guess if it had to go on, I'd much rather it was some well groomed farang than perhaps someone like the gardener.

So my hats off to you

Give me the real story, warts an all, rather than an Egocentric Blog any day

[WebBangkok]

In my opinion, learning the language make it much much easier to live here and enjoy things.

First year here, I didnt speak Thai, was great but frustrating at times when I couldnt communicate, but now I can speak enough to get around and have a decent convo makes everything much better.

Plus when you speak Thai, they do treat much better in my opinion.

[villagefarang]

Give me the real story, warts an all, rather than an Egocentric Blog any day

I prefer to have warts removed but that is just me.

[villagefarang]

In my opinion, learning the language make it much much easier to live here and enjoy things.

First year here, I didn't speak Thai, was great but frustrating at times when I couldn't communicate, but now I can speak enough to get around and have a decent convo makes everything much better.

Plus when you speak Thai, they do treat much better in my opinion.

Unless you speak Thai it is hard to understand how much of a difference it makes.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Give me the real story, warts an all, rather than an Egocentric Blog any day

Sounds like cutting-down-the-tall-poppies syndrome to me. When we judge or criticize another person, it says nothing about that person; it merely says something about our own need to be critical.

Anyone who is brave/confident/self-assured enough to get up and perform on a stage, write a book or broadcast a subset of their lives to the world via social media is open to be called "ego-centric".

Those with nothing to offer will sit back and criticize.

Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.

- Emmet Fox

[Naam]

Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting

but not when it's constructive criticism with an explanation why.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting

but not when it's constructive criticism with an explanation why.

Even then.

I agree that the manner and intent with which it's done certainly matters, but no matter what, any kind of giving advice is positioning yourself above the other. Now if you've been specifically asked for advice, they've already elevated you. . .

But much worse sins than indirectly self-boasting, I was just pointing out that the critic is doing it as much as the "producer" (writer/artist whatever).

[Naam]

Unless you speak Thai it is hard to understand how much of a difference it makes.

i can vividly imagine the big difference it will make when you discuss e.g. the perceived currency/debt crisis in €URoland and its potential economic global implications including any impact on Thailand with your Thai friend / neighbour / acquaintance / wife / partner / girlfriend / boyfriend.

[Naam]

Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting

but not when it's constructive criticism with an explanation why.

Even then.

I agree that the manner and intent with which it's done certainly matters, but no matter what, any kind of giving advice is positioning yourself above the other. Now if you've been specifically asked for advice, they've already elevated you. . .

But much worse sins than indirectly self-boasting, I was just pointing out that the critic is doing it as much as the "producer" (writer/artist whatever).

but no matter what, any kind of giving advice is positioning yourself above the other. Now if you've been specifically asked for advice, they've already elevated you. . .

sorry, my IQ is not high enough to comprehend the self-boasting and elevating part

[BigJohnnyBKK]

i can vividly imagine the big difference it will make when you discuss e.g. the perceived currency/debt crisis in €URoland and its potential economic global implications including any impact on Thailand with your Thai friend / neighbour / acquaintance / wife / partner / girlfriend / boyfriend.

Personally I don't look for that sort of discussion among the Thais I know, and if I did all those capable of that level of discourse already speak English better than I speak Thai.

However I recently needed to find a new electrician - my past one has become too successful and put his rates up.

I pay B2,000 for a full days' work (including his assistant if he likes, or I lend a hand) plus a %15 markup on his costs of materials as long as I'm charged by the meter rather than the roll for wiring.

After trying three, I've found a good one.

I don't think I could have done so relying on any of the Thais in my household, much less trying to find a spark that actually has English himself.

Just a trivial example I know, and obviously not important for those with the resources to allow them to afford just calling in a contractor used to dealing with expats. . .

But IMO critical for those of us trying to live (like a king compared to back home) on well under B60K a month.

[villagefarang]

Unless you speak Thai it is hard to understand how much of a difference it makes.

i can vividly imagine the big difference it will make when you discuss e.g. the perceived currency/debt crisis in €URoland and its potential economic global implications including any impact on Thailand with your Thai friend / neighbour / acquaintance / wife / partner / girlfriend / boyfriend.

I am unlikely to be discussing such things with anyone to be honest.

I am however less likely to be ignored by Thais who fear the sometimes emotional rants of foreigners who don’t understand why English is not of more importance to the average Thai.

Whether it is one of the many things I have done lately, like getting the car serviced, renewing a driver’s license and car registration, extending my visa, getting things done by phone or simply asking for directions on remote roads or trails, their manner changes dramatically when they can actually have a normal conversation with me. I find much of their perceived hostility or indifference is no more than fear and trepidation.

All this may seem insignificant to some but clearly being able to talk makes my life here much more enjoyable. Then again I do like the sound of my own voice, being the egocentric narcissistic blogger that I am.

Edited June 25, 2012 by villagefarang

[Naam]

I am unlikely to be discussing such things with anyone to be honest.

I am however less likely to be ignored by Thais who fear the sometimes emotional rants of foreigners who don’t understand why English is not of more importance to the average Thai.

Whether it is one of the many things I have done lately, like getting the car serviced, renewing a driver’s license and car registration, extending my visa, getting things done by phone or simply asking for directions on remote roads or trails, their manner changes dramatically when they can actually have a normal conversation with me. I find much of their perceived hostility or indifference is no more than fear and trepidation.

All this may seem insignificant to some but clearly being able to talk makes my life here much more enjoyable. Then again I do like the sound of my own voice, being the egocentric narcissistic blogger that I am.

it's not insignificant and i appreciate both your and BigJohnny's honest answers.

summary: we don't really disagree, we just look and judge things from different individual perspectives.

p.s. now i'm waiting for another paticipant of this thread to raise hell why BigJohnny upsets the Thai economy by paying an electrician 2,000 Baht a day because in Nakhon Watchamacallit he pays an electrician the princely sum of 369 Baht and 85 Satangs per day

[TommoPhysicist]

Unless you speak Thai it is hard to understand how much of a difference it makes.

Until you learn to speak Thai, you don't understand how happy you were, living in ignorance.

Whether it is one of the many things I have done lately, like getting the car serviced, renewing a driver’s license and car registration, extending my visa, getting things done by phone or simply asking for directions on remote roads or trails, their manner changes dramatically when they can actually have a normal conversation with me. I find much of their perceived hostility or indifference is no more than fear and trepidation.

Car service, wife speaks Thai, better and cheaper if the garage don't see a foreigner.

Driving License and car registration, less problems if pretend to not speak Thai.

Visa, immigration speak English.

Get things done by phone ...... almost impossible in any language.

Directions on remote roads/trails ...... never met a Thai who had any idea about directions. Satnav is great.

Normal conversation ....... never managed that with a Thai in any language.

I actually find it much easier to interact with most Thais while pretending not to speak Thai.

When you speak Thai, I find many officials find all sorts of excuses to not do something, when you can't, they just do it to get rid of you ASAP.

Edited June 25, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Sharp]

Unless you speak Thai it is hard to understand how much of a difference it makes.

Until you learn to speak Thai, you don't understand how happy you were, living in ignorance.

Whether it is one of the many things I have done lately, like getting the car serviced, renewing a driver’s license and car registration, extending my visa, getting things done by phone or simply asking for directions on remote roads or trails, their manner changes dramatically when they can actually have a normal conversation with me. I find much of their perceived hostility or indifference is no more than fear and trepidation.

Car service, wife speaks Thai, better and cheaper if the garage don't see a foreigner.

Driving License and car registration, less problems if pretend to not speak Thai.

Visa, immigration speak English.

Get things done by phone ...... almost impossible in any language.

Directions on remote roads/trails ...... never met a Thai who had any idea about directions. Satnav is great.

Normal conversation ....... never managed that with a Thai in any language.

I actually find it much easier to interact with most Thais while pretending not to speak Thai.

When you speak Thai, I find many officials find all sorts of excuses to not do something, when you can't, they just do it to get rid of you ASAP.

Spot on ....kap...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app