Why Do Thais Get Angry When Corrected On Their English?

[MJP]

Ohhh, I do know one thing that gets them a little pissy though (in a fun way). When you correct the English loanwords Thai has incorporated. For example:

vaccine = waaksin

Jew = Yuu

shopping = chopbing

virus = wirat

They're saying them correctly according to how they're written in Thai, but still, if you're going to steal words from the English language, use them properly.

Wish we'd lend them more words. I might have a fighting chance then.

[nkg]

i would say they get angry because you are being a pedant.

why you would feel the need to correct a random receptionist is beyond me. I would probably tell you to piss off if you started in with me while i was at work

friends and family generally appreciate it if the correction is offered in the right spirit.

besides, you should have taken the island getaway.

A hotel receptionist would usually have a degree if employed by a 4-5 star hotel, so I could understand her being sensitive about her English language skills. Implying that somebody can't do an essential part of their job (speak English) in front of their workmates would qualify as a serious loss of face.

If it was a 500 baht/night dive that you were booking into, then not so much - any English is a bonus, and the receptionist is probably a random family member.

[Jayroo]

No, maybe go back and read the post before pasting youtube videos here..

Ah....There it is.....That is the Attitude that probably got you in trouble with her.

It is not your simplistic post that is hard to understand but instead it is hard for you to accept

the possibility that Thai was not wrong.... that in fact there are two pronunciations of Iron

English & American......ai-en & ai-ern...... She used one you used the other

Neither is wrong but.......your making a case out of it is condescending

Or... or is saving face that much of an issue for them you?

You have to be kidding right? yes I am well aware there are 2 ways of pronouncing IRON, but she used neither. I suggest before adding your gibberish you actually go back and read my original post, until then stop trying to prove an invalid point by delivering utter nonsense.

If you had something of value to contribute, I would thank you and accept your comments, BUT since you are clearly just trying to be a nuisance I will bid you good day...adios

[canuckamuck]

No, maybe go back and read the post before pasting youtube videos here..

Ah....There it is.....That is the Attitude that probably got you in trouble with her.

It is not your simplistic post that is hard to understand but instead it is hard for you to accept

the possibility that Thai was not wrong.... that in fact there are two pronunciations of Iron

English & American......ai-en & ai-ern...... She used one you used the other

Neither is wrong but.......your making a case out of it is condescending

Or... or is saving face that much of an issue for them you?

You have to be kidding right? yes I am well aware there are 2 ways of pronouncing IRON, but she used neither. I suggest before adding your gibberish you actually go back and read my original post, until then stop trying to prove an invalid point by delivering utter nonsense.

If you had something of value to contribute, I would thank you and accept your comments, BUT since you are clearly just trying to be a nuisance I will bid you good day...adios

Now why would you say good day... adios?

Clearly some language confusion going on here.

[Jayroo]

Well, you got the smile right. I would have followed it up with "yes, the iron. Island and iron not same same", perhaps shaking my head and pretending to be confused. She was trying to be light-hearted and jokey, so keeping things on the same level might have helped.

When I hear a Thai friend badly mangle an English word, I'll usually find an excuse to say the same word when I reply, always with a smile and with the correct pronunciation.

I don't remember anyone ever being offended by me correcting their English pronunciation.

No she wasn't at all trying to be jokey, as she actually had her booking pad out, already making calls to arrange my island escape and she was clearly NOT in a jokey mood when I told her I needed the iron not an island, hence why she tried to correct me on my pronunciation of the word 'iron', to blame someone for her lack of English listening skills instead of apologizing like she should have.

If she had been more humble I wouldn't have turned the tables around, it's simple social science.

[flying]

until then stop trying to prove an invalid point by delivering utter nonsense.

I will bid you good day...adios

Hey your the one who wrote the OP nonsense

It is a forum...expect replies

Sorry if they do not all agree with your view that the girl should have somehow been grateful

to be corrected on minutia.

Then again as your post #62 shows you expect a bit more English bang for your baht

Sorry but your not in Mexico anymore...adios

Edited July 8, 2012 by flying

[MidoriApple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDFogjXdIVc&feature=related

I taught this lady English.

Err....the word "coke" that she said is strange, no?

[kerryk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDFogjXdIVc&feature=related

I taught this lady English.

Err....the word "coke" that she said is strange, no?

I did learn how to speak English in Pattaya! You mean she say it wrong?

[Kilgore Trout]

I think that's a great question. In the end it would have to do with America being far more diverse than Thailand (as well as exponentially bigger in landmass), so more than likely an American wouldn't make the distinction. It's just another person, another American. In Thailand it's a different story.

I don't know...I don't think the comment would go over well in Britian either

[Kilgore Trout]

Rubbish post. English is the most widely used language in the world, and America is an immigrant country. It's an official language in 52 countries spoken by 2 billion people. Thai has just 70 million people.

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least. And it's "speaks English so well." So I think you've got the answer to your second question right there.

You don't know much about Thailand if you think the word "farang" can't be offensive.

The point is not about language; its about pointing out that someone is of a different race.

Again, double standards. If you are going to accept racist behavior, you have to accept it from everyone; not just Thais

[MidoriApple]

I taught this lady English.

Err....the word "coke" that she said is strange, no?

I did learn how to speak English in Pattaya! You mean she say it wrong?

Yes, i think she say "cock"...not "coke".... Errr...its private

[hookedondhamma]

I think that's a great question. In the end it would have to do with America being far more diverse than Thailand (as well as exponentially bigger in landmass), so more than likely an American wouldn't make the distinction. It's just another person, another American. In Thailand it's a different story.

I don't know...I don't think the comment would go over well in Britian either

It's ok, Kilgore, as long as those reading have a general understanding of the words I typed, they'll more than likely notice it it was directed towards Thailand (along with the various other clues such as title of the forum, title of the post). But if it makes anyone feel better, just pretend not to notice the content from my previous post in the parentheses :-)

[hookedondhamma]

*edit* generous edit

But to the OP sorry you had that experience. More than likely it was just the wrong place, wrong time. Look at it this way, at least you have a special connection with a Thai lady, albeit through language pronunciation discrepancies :-)

Edited July 8, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[NomadJoe]

Would I get praise from you if, at an expo in New York where I was selling something; a Thai ordered and bought something and I turned to the person working with me, and said in front of the asian customer; "the oriental speaks English so good."

Or would you think I was an idiot?

Again, double standards, and not just from the Thais apparently

Rubbish post. English is the most widely used language in the world, and America is an immigrant country. It's an official language in 52 countries spoken by 2 billion people. Thai has just 70 million people.

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least. And it's "speaks English so well." So I think you've got the answer to your second question right there.

I would say rubbish too except I don't say rubbish. I googled "oriental" and got the enclosed photo. I don't think oriental is offensive. I don't know anyone or any dictionary who thinks it is. Maybe it is a bit old fashioned and has been replaced by the work Asian. Me thinks you are a dumb kid. No, that's bad. I mean sheltered from knowledge young person.

Asian American friends have told me that they consider Oriental offensive, that it applies things, such as rugs, vases, etc., not to people. It's like using the word Negro. It's an out of date term.

But don't take this "dumb, sheltered from knowledge, kid's" word for it:

"Oriental - a member of an Oriental race; the term is regarded as offensive by Asians"

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/oriental

"Oriental: 3 often capitalized sometimes offensive; Asian"

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/oriental

"Please don't call me Oriental"

http://elloecho.blog...e-oriental.html

"Why “Oriental” Is a No-No"

http://racerelations...amestoavoid.htm

"You Can Call Things Oriental. You Can't Call People Oriental."

http://www.rodneyohebsion.com/pc.htm

And your "photo" is not a "photo" but actually a drawing. An Oriental drawing.

"Me thinks you are a dumb kid." -definitely offensive, as well as autological.

.

Edited July 8, 2012 by NomadJoe

[NomadJoe]

Rubbish post. English is the most widely used language in the world, and America is an immigrant country. It's an official language in 52 countries spoken by 2 billion people. Thai has just 70 million people.

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least. And it's "speaks English so well." So I think you've got the answer to your second question right there.

You don't know much about Thailand if you think the word "farang" can't be offensive.

The point is not about language; its about pointing out that someone is of a different race.

Again, double standards. If you are going to accept racist behavior, you have to accept it from everyone; not just Thais

I didn't say farang couldn't be offensive. Many words can be offensive that inherently aren't. It depends on the context. In the context as it was used towards me it clearly was not offensive, thus I wasn't offended.

The point was not about someone being of a different race, it was about native Thai speakers complimenting a non-native Thai speaker. You saw racism where there is none probably because, it would appear, you are racist.

Edited July 8, 2012 by NomadJoe

[cooked]

Apparently my command of the Thai language is deserving of mirth I found out today.

No encouragement was offered...so I will become more pernickity in my judgement of English grammar.

What's good for the goose....

Do you even know what those words mean or how to spell them?

mirth/mərTH/

Noun: Amusement, esp. as expressed in laughter: "his six-foot frame shook with mirth".

per·snick·et·y/pərˈsnikətē/

Adjective:

• Placing too much emphasis on trivial or minor details; fussy.
  
• Requiring a particularly precise or careful approach.
  

pedant

noun

1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning.

2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details.

3. a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense.

[nocturn]

its quite funny, my daughter (aged 5) understands a fair gamut of english accents out of the uk as well as the english spoken by a number of swedes, danes, germans and Europeans in general.

the thing that blew her mind were spanish and the portugese speaking english (after the f1).

once it was explained that they were speaking english, she got it, but still maintains it isn't 'real' english.

she is a great judge of relative english ability, to the detriment of many who attempt to engage her in english only to either be ignored or receive a refusal to respond in anything but thai if at all.

she is the same with people who address her in crap thai unfortunately, and while my thai is actually quite good, i receive a fair amount of her scorn myself.

[nocturn]

<snip>...Asian American friends have told me that they consider Oriental offensive, that it applies things, such as rugs, vases, etc., not to people. It's like using the word Negro. <snip>

.

i quite love antiques and have have never actually encountered negro rugs or vases.

is oriental actually considered derogatory?

it is an archaic term certainly, but chink, slant and gook are terms i consider derogatory.

[nocturn]

Apparently my command of the Thai language is deserving of mirth I found out today.

No encouragement was offered...so I will become more pernickity in my judgement of English grammar.

What's good for the goose....

Do you even know what those words mean or how to spell them?

mirth/mərTH/

Noun: Amusement, esp. as expressed in laughter: "his six-foot frame shook with mirth".

per·snick·et·y/pərˈsnikətē/

Adjective:

• Placing too much emphasis on trivial or minor details; fussy.
  
• Requiring a particularly precise or careful approach.
  

pedant

noun

1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning.

2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details.

3. a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense.

4.a twunt like either you or the OP

[NomadJoe]

<snip>...Asian American friends have told me that they consider Oriental offensive, that it applies things, such as rugs, vases, etc., not to people. It's like using the word Negro. <snip>

.

is oriental actually considered derogatory?

Did you read any of the rest of the post you snipped? Check the links?

[kerryk]

Would I get praise from you if, at an expo in New York where I was selling something; a Thai ordered and bought something and I turned to the person working with me, and said in front of the asian customer; "the oriental speaks English so good."

Or would you think I was an idiot?

Again, double standards, and not just from the Thais apparently

Rubbish post. English is the most widely used language in the world, and America is an immigrant country. It's an official language in 52 countries spoken by 2 billion people. Thai has just 70 million people.

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least. And it's "speaks English so well." So I think you've got the answer to your second question right there.

I would say rubbish too except I don't say rubbish. I googled "oriental" and got the enclosed photo. I don't think oriental is offensive. I don't know anyone or any dictionary who thinks it is. Maybe it is a bit old fashioned and has been replaced by the work Asian. Me thinks you are a dumb kid. No, that's bad. I mean sheltered from knowledge young person.

Asian American friends have told me that they consider Oriental offensive, that it applies things, such as rugs, vases, etc., not to people. It's like using the word Negro. It's an out of date term.

But don't take this "dumb, sheltered from knowledge, kid's" word for it:

"Oriental - a member of an Oriental race; the term is regarded as offensive by Asians"

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/oriental

"Oriental: 3 often capitalized sometimes offensive; Asian"

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/oriental

"Please don't call me Oriental"

http://elloecho.blog...e-oriental.html

"Why “Oriental” Is a No-No"

http://racerelations...amestoavoid.htm

"You Can Call Things Oriental. You Can't Call People Oriental."

http://www.rodneyohebsion.com/pc.htm

And your "photo" is not a "photo" but actually a drawing. An Oriental drawing.

"Me thinks you are a dumb kid." -definitely offensive, as well as autological.

.

I guess you are right and I am a dumb old guy.

[Kilgore Trout]

Rubbish post. English is the most widely used language in the world, and America is an immigrant country. It's an official language in 52 countries spoken by 2 billion people. Thai has just 70 million people.

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least. And it's "speaks English so well." So I think you've got the answer to your second question right there.

You don't know much about Thailand if you think the word "farang" can't be offensive.

The point is not about language; its about pointing out that someone is of a different race.

Again, double standards. If you are going to accept racist behavior, you have to accept it from everyone; not just Thais

I didn't say farang couldn't be offensive. Many words can be offensive that inherently aren't. It depends on the context. In the context as it was used towards me it clearly was not offensive, thus I wasn't offended.

The point was not about someone being of a different race, it was about native Thai speakers complimenting a non-native Thai speaker. You saw racism where there is none probably because, it would appear, you are racist.

Pointing out someone's race when there is no reason to is racist IHMO. If you have been in Thailand enough you know that they don't say "look at that guy in the red shirt" they say "look at the indian in the red shirt" or look at the falang in the red shirt.

As per the example; the girl didn't say to her mother "that guy speaks Thai well" or even "that foreigner speaks Thai well" it was "That falang (white person) speaks Thai well.

My point is; if I did that in my group of friends "look at that Indian over there" I would be criticized, ostrasized etc., but when Thais do it westerners accept it or even say its cute

Double Standards

[Kilgore Trout]

Apparently my command of the Thai language is deserving of mirth I found out today.

No encouragement was offered...so I will become more pernickity in my judgement of English grammar.

What's good for the goose....

Do you even know what those words mean or how to spell them?

mirth/mərTH/

Noun: Amusement, esp. as expressed in laughter: "his six-foot frame shook with mirth".

per·snick·et·y/pərˈsnikətē/

Adjective:

• Placing too much emphasis on trivial or minor details; fussy.
  
• Requiring a particularly precise or careful approach.
  

pedant

noun

1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning.

2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details.

3. a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense.

I don't think its being pedantic when your use of a word makes a sentence unintelligible and meaningless. You say your command of Thai is deserving of mirth and then have frown face.

Hey, genius; I have no idea what you are talking about!!!

How is that being pedantic?

[aneliane]

The same reason why they wouldn't correct your Thai, nobody wants to look stupid.

Face / work

As westerner we know learning languages is about making mistakes. Here mistakes are like crimes.

[StreetCowboy]

Apparently my command of the Thai language is deserving of mirth I found out today.

No encouragement was offered...so I will become more pernickity in my judgement of English grammar.

What's good for the goose....

Do you even know what those words mean or how to spell them?

mirth/mərTH/

Noun: Amusement, esp. as expressed in laughter: "his six-foot frame shook with mirth".

per·snick·et·y/pərˈsnikətē/

Adjective:

• Placing too much emphasis on trivial or minor details; fussy.
  
• Requiring a particularly precise or careful approach.
  

pedant

noun

1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning.

2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details.

3. a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense.

I don't think its being pedantic when your use of a word makes a sentence unintelligible and meaningless. You say your command of Thai is deserving of mirth and then have frown face.

Hey, genius; I have no idea what you are talking about!!!

How is that being pedantic?

I think Smokie was sad that his Thai was laughed at - hence the frown.

So, having lost face and been offended, he intends to return the offence by being pernickety in criticising the other person's use of English. I assume the other person is a native Thai speaker.

It was quite clear to me what Smokie meant, although we share a common language, so that was scarecely surprising

SC

commonlanguagemyarse,Cowboy, Ah'venaeideawhitonyaethatmeantexceptfirthesmiley. Pernicketypendanticponsonbysmiles

[Berkshire]

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least.

I would say rubbish too except I don't say rubbish. I googled "oriental" and got the enclosed photo. I don't think oriental is offensive. I don't know anyone or any dictionary who thinks it is. Maybe it is a bit old fashioned and has been replaced by the work Asian. Me thinks you are a dumb kid. No, that's bad. I mean sheltered from knowledge young person.

Sorry Kerry, but Nomad is correct in this instance. The term "oriental" is very similar to the term "colored people." They were both used by Americans back in the day and were not considered particularly offensive. But they are considered mildly offensive now, although not as bad as some other racially charged words.

[Berkshire]

Rubbish post. English is the most widely used language in the world, and America is an immigrant country. It's an official language in 52 countries spoken by 2 billion people. Thai has just 70 million people.

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least. And it's "speaks English so well." So I think you've got the answer to your second question right there.

You don't know much about Thailand if you think the word "farang" can't be offensive.

The point is not about language; its about pointing out that someone is of a different race.

Again, double standards. If you are going to accept racist behavior, you have to accept it from everyone; not just Thais

I didn't say farang couldn't be offensive. Many words can be offensive that inherently aren't. It depends on the context. In the context as it was used towards me it clearly was not offensive, thus I wasn't offended.

The point was not about someone being of a different race, it was about native Thai speakers complimenting a non-native Thai speaker. You saw racism where there is none probably because, it would appear, you are racist.

Pointing out someone's race when there is no reason to is racist IHMO. If you have been in Thailand enough you know that they don't say "look at that guy in the red shirt" they say "look at the indian in the red shirt" or look at the falang in the red shirt.

As per the example; the girl didn't say to her mother "that guy speaks Thai well" or even "that foreigner speaks Thai well" it was "That falang (white person) speaks Thai well.

My point is; if I did that in my group of friends "look at that Indian over there" I would be criticized, ostrasized etc., but when Thais do it westerners accept it or even say its cute

Double Standards

The word "farang" is absolutely not an offensive word. Never has been, never will be. And anyone who thinks otherwise is an overly-sensitive, obtuse, close-minded, and wildly anal-retentive ignoramus. I hope I've gotten my point across.

[StreetCowboy]

Also, "oriental" [sic] refers to things, not people and it is an offensive term when used to describe Asians. "Farang" is not offensive in the least.

I would say rubbish too except I don't say rubbish. I googled "oriental" and got the enclosed photo. I don't think oriental is offensive. I don't know anyone or any dictionary who thinks it is. Maybe it is a bit old fashioned and has been replaced by the work Asian. Me thinks you are a dumb kid. No, that's bad. I mean sheltered from knowledge young person.

Sorry Kerry, but Nomad is correct in this instance. The term "oriental" is very similar to the term "colored people." They were both used by Americans back in the day and were not considered particularly offensive. But they are considered mildly offensive now, although not as bad as some other racially charged words.

I think "Oriental" is used when we want to distinguish Orientals from other Asians - Russians, Turks, Arabs, Indians and so forth.

And I think from reading this forum you could conclude that 'farang' was offensive to many people.

But the topic is why do Thai people take offence when their English is corrected, not 'why do English speakers take offence when their English is criticised', nor 'How can I avoid offending anyone with my quaintly archaic vocabulary', nor even 'How, through subtle use of vocabulary, can I wind up the liberal stormtroopers of the forum'.

We could go off onto a digression on English vocabulary, but inevitable we dig ourselves in to a hole whenever we start calling shovels

So; back on topic: I think Aneliane nailed it (Can I say 'nailed'?)

SC

[canuckamuck]

Pointing out someone's race when there is no reason to is racist IHMO. If you have been in Thailand enough you know that they don't say "look at that guy in the red shirt" they say "look at the indian in the red shirt" or look at the falang in the red shirt.

As per the example; the girl didn't say to her mother "that guy speaks Thai well" or even "that foreigner speaks Thai well" it was "That falang (white person) speaks Thai well.

My point is; if I did that in my group of friends "look at that Indian over there" I would be criticized, ostrasized etc., but when Thais do it westerners accept it or even say its cute

Double Standards

Yes double standards, the ones you bring to Thailand, and the ones that are normal for here.

Being upset about is your choice.

[canuckamuck]

The same reason why they wouldn't correct your Thai, nobody wants to look stupid.

Face / work

As westerner we know learning languages is about making mistakes. Here mistakes are like crimes.

Astute