Of all the debating tools used on this - and other Thai related - forums, the lamest must be the tired old hack:

"We are guests here so if you don't like it, leave".

This is usually applied by a member who has absolutely no idea how to actually deal with the situation in the topic but they want to look like they are an “old hand” by churning out something which makes it appear as though they are well settled and content with everything here.

Indeed, for some posters this response has become almost a default reply to any complaint about Thailand.

I think enough is enough.

It is seriously time for many of you (you know who you are) to get out from behind your keyboards, to stop relying on Stickman and your wives as your main source of information on Thailand and actually try getting out there to learn something about the country for yourselves.

In my time here, I have found that virtually ALL of the small problems (and a fair few of the bigger ones) which invoke this feeble response can usually be very easily resolved to the satisfaction of all parties just by applying a little common sense and a basic understanding of how things work here.

Thais are, on the whole, very reasonable people who dislike confrontation as much as the next man. More often than not, when a problem does arise, most Thais are only too happy - if not relieved - to work any potential unpleasantness out over a few dishes of grub and a bottle (or two) of wallop.

There is no need for the person with a gripe or a problem to “go home”; nor to eat <deleted>.

Just behaving like an adult member of the human race, instead of reacting with terror that you may actually have to interact with Thai people to solve a problem can get you far.

Try it sometime.

Thanks HeavyDrinker for a post full of common sense.

With a little of effort of integration, there is no reason for you to be treated differently than the other citizen of this country, same rights and same obligations.

Unfortunately a recent poll shows that an important number of posters of this forum don't want to make this effort. You have only yourself to blame for your troubles.

PS : I believe this poll reflect only the opinion of the members of this forum with a large number of them not living full time in Thailand. Based on my personal observation of the expats I know in Thailand, after a couple of year living here most of them have a happy and well integrated life.

you people really expect to be ever integrated in the thai society?

how many real Thai Friends do you have?

is your Relation with your Thai Spouse a non financial one?

Couldn't agree more with that HD! From experience I find that the people I meet with attitudes like "We are guests here so if you don't like it, leave", are working here but fall under the umbrella of the corporates or big companies where everything is taken care of for them and they don't really have to interact. Whereas they are expats, I like to call them plastic expats. (Likely get a bit of sh1t for that! )

Of course you also have the knobs and curtain twitchers willing to believe everything that is told to them instead of verifying it for themselves..........

Edit: This is just covering the people living here.

you people really expect to be ever integrated in the thai society?

how many real Thai Friends do you have?

is your Relation with your Thai Spouse a non financial one?

Don't think its about being integrated into society as much as interacting with other humans. They don't (normally) bite dispite what you might have heard.......

Try to get out a bit more.

you people really expect to be ever integrated in the thai society?

how many real Thai Friends do you have?

is your Relation with your Thai Spouse a non financial one?

my relationship with my ex is entirely non-financial.

our point of contact is my daughter, who lives with me.

even though it is sometimes a struggle, she foots half the school fees.

As for Thai friends of course i have em.

why wouldn't I?

Funny thing is i see them as friends, same as my Swedish, British or German friends.

have i integrated? I wouldn't really says so.

i would say i have found a niche that suits me fine.

you people really expect to be ever integrated in the thai society?

how many real Thai Friends do you have?

is your Relation with your Thai Spouse a non financial one?

You can have a very happy and successful life living side by side with Thais. I'd call that integration.

I have a number of very close Thai friends.

My relationship has never had anything to do with money.

Couldn't agree more with that HD! From experience I find that the people I meet with attitudes like "We are guests here so if you don't like it, leave", are working here but fall under the umbrella of the corporates or big companies where everything is taken care of for them and they don't really have to interact. Whereas they are expats, I like to call them plastic expats. (Likely get a bit of sh1t for that! )

Of course you also have the knobs and curtain twitchers willing to believe everything that is told to them instead of verifying it for themselves..........

Edit: This is just covering the people living here.

to the contrary, i see them as retirees trapped in the middle of ubon butfuc_k with a wife they cant understand, village headman they don't know and a trip to big C in hopes of an affordable block of cheddar as a weekly highlight.

People on the expat packages are very happy simply because they do not need to interact. They do not have any problems with immigration or visa runs, because someone is bending over backwards to ensure they feel welcome.

you people really expect to be ever integrated in the thai society?

how many real Thai Friends do you have?

is your Relation with your Thai Spouse a non financial one?

You can always tell a newbie ,same old hackneyd bullshit, i have quite a few thai friends so have many other westerners i know and not one has "baught" his wife , just get out more and stay away from the bars.

Hmm, laudable sentiment this suggestion of reasoning with people. Unfortunately, it often makes matters worse.

In Patong there are issues with the ripoffs. When I have tried to explain to my Thai friends why refuse to take a tuk tuk or why I will not use the taxis (they do) their backs go up. They see nothing wrong with the double pricing system on the local transportation. I refuse to pay bribes, they will. Aside from the fact that if I pay a bribe, I can get in serious trouble, it is a repugnant act. When I have tried to explain why no monies wll be paid under the table, they don't get it. These are supposed to be university graduates.

In fairness, one of my friends who was educated in the USA and is employed by one of the big accounting firms in Bangkok understands, but then we never argue over these things. She however, pretends not to see it and carries on with her life. She can afford to do that because she has a big salary by Thai standards.

In fairness GK, I'd say they are more differences of opinion than problems which need solving.

It is actually quite refreshing to see there is a certain amount of frustration here with that section of forum members who just want to sit and snipe all the time instead of actually getting out there and making things work.

Couldn't agree more with that HD! From experience I find that the people I meet with attitudes like "We are guests here so if you don't like it, leave", are working here but fall under the umbrella of the corporates or big companies where everything is taken care of for them and they don't really have to interact. Whereas they are expats, I like to call them plastic expats. (Likely get a bit of sh1t for that! )

Of course you also have the knobs and curtain twitchers willing to believe everything that is told to them instead of verifying it for themselves..........

Edit: This is just covering the people living here.

to the contrary, i see them as retirees trapped in the middle of ubon butfuc_k with a wife they cant understand, village headman they don't know and a trip to big C in hopes of an affordable block of cheddar as a weekly highlight.

People on the expat packages are very happy simply because they do not need to interact. They do not have any problems with immigration or visa runs, because someone is bending over backwards to ensure they feel welcome.

I work for a multi national company and know many others that do. The majority of them do interact with locals and in fact I would say on some levels the level of interaction is higher than the English teachers of the world because their Thai colleagues have a much better command of English than your average English teacher/retiree has of the Thai language. Better communication leads to better understanding which leads to better integration. In addition many companies pay for Thai language lessons for expats so there is also a basic level of proficiency which many retirees dont bother with as they cant afford it.

I was accompanied to the work permit and visa places, fast tracked to the front of the line etc but it still hasn't stopped me from making an effort to learn about the country and culture.

Also remember that many expats on packages are here for a finite period and often because their company sent them here, not because they chose to come here. The fact they still integrate as much if not more than the porch dwelling retiree is therefore admirable, however as professionals in their field you would expect that from a certain calibre of person.

I also disagree that expats on packages are the people who will tell you they are guests. I dont know about you but when I invite people round for dinner I dont make them prove they can provide conversation a local cant provide and ensure they have a visa before being allowed to step through the door. No foreigner is a guest in Thailand in the literal sense. Everyone has to fulfil a certain criteria or they are not allowed in. That isn't the definition of a guest. If you fulfil the criteria you are entitled to a certain level of respect in return and if you don't receive it you have every right to complain and take steps to rectify your complaint.

I pay more income tax than most Thais, in fact I probably pay more income tax in a month than the monthly salaries of the majority of apologist, bitter foreigners who refer to us as guests who can leave if we don't like it. As long as I need to provide the Thai government of certain criteria to be allowed into the country and as long as I pay income tax I do not see myself as a guest here in any sense of the word.

you people really expect to be ever integrated in the thai society?

how many real Thai Friends do you have?

is your Relation with your Thai Spouse a non financial one?

Almost all the people I regard as 'friends' here in Thailand are (shock horror) Thai.

Most I met through work, many through shared hobbies and passtimes and the rest through introduction.

Non from the vantage point of a bar stool.

The idea that as doreigners we cannot integrate here is horse sh1t, though it may have some truth for those who came to Thailznd sfter failing to integrate back in their own country.

you people really expect to be ever integrated in the thai society?

how many real Thai Friends do you have?

is your Relation with your Thai Spouse a non financial one?

Yes, of course.

Many real Thai friends, why don't you?

Yes, non financial.

Hmm, laudable sentiment this suggestion of reasoning with people. Unfortunately, it often makes matters worse.

In Patong there are issues with the ripoffs. When I have tried to explain to my Thai friends why refuse to take a tuk tuk or why I will not use the taxis (they do) their backs go up. They see nothing wrong with the double pricing system on the local transportation. I refuse to pay bribes, they will. Aside from the fact that if I pay a bribe, I can get in serious trouble, it is a repugnant act. When I have tried to explain why no monies wll be paid under the table, they don't get it. These are supposed to be university graduates.

In fairness, one of my friends who was educated in the USA and is employed by one of the big accounting firms in Bangkok understands, but then we never argue over these things. She however, pretends not to see it and carries on with her life. She can afford to do that because she has a big salary by Thai standards.

I too live in Patong and often use the tuks with no issues - 200 B anywhere in town. I have a taxi I use all the time and pay the local prices.

As to the issue of "bribes" you need to stop applying your western sensibilities to a different environment. Stop pushing the rock uphill. I'm not saying pay, I'm just saying, stop getting so f'ing moral about it. You seem to be stressing out about issues over which you have no control. Life is too short. Maybe your Bangkok friend has the right idea.

The question to people you don't know "is your relationship with your Thai spouse a non financial one?" says nothing about the person you are questioning and a great deal about yourself.... Non of it complimentary.

The question to people you don't know "is your relationship with your Thai spouse a non financial one?" says nothing about the person you are questioning and a great deal about yourself.... Non of it complimentary.

Agreed.

I work with native English speakers, but outside of work do not socialse with them, my home and family is Thai. My neighbours are all Thai, I am the only ferang in the area, so all my aquaintances are Thai and some are true friends. I support my wife and my children, just as many other married men do and have done for over 15 years.

No you will not meet me in a bar or in Nana, Pattaya or Patong. I will keep secret my favourite places so that they remain unspoilt by tourist infrastructure and griping ferangs

The idea that, when living in Thailand, I must add "Thai" to friends (same for wife) make me wonder in which universe some people here are living.

Actually it reminds me a line from the sitcom "Friends"

JOEY: Go to China. Eat Chinese food.

CHANDLER: Course there, they just call it food.

The idea that, when living in Thailand, I must add "Thai" to friends (same for wife) make me wonder in which universe some people here are living.

Actually it reminds me a line from the sitcom "Friends"

JOEY: Go to China. Eat Chinese food.

CHANDLER: Course there, they just call it food.

My universe is Thailand!

There are Thai people everywhere and I do not avoid them. How strange!

Is my relationship with my Thai spouse Non Financial.

No it's financial, we usually split costs, bills, nights out, dinners out etc. It's very financial, we take care of each other as well. She works, speaks good english, and knows the difference between a relation and a relationship

I find it odd that if one lives here one does not have any Thai pals.

I find it odd that if one lives here one does not have any Thai pals.

That must be lonely spes if you dont live in Pattaya, Phuket etc

We are just guests here, if you don't like it go home.

We are just guests here, if you don't like it go home.

Someone told me that ealier in TV

We are guests here

Can't remember that anyone invited me to Thailand...

I'm a guest and I brought pie

If your wife is a housewife, surely the relationship is financial to one degree or another. Surely, you are supporting her financially, as you are supporting your children, if you have any. What is wrong with that?

Some people are just ijits and know not what they say.

In my time here, I have found that virtually ALL of the small problems (and a fair few of the bigger ones) which invoke this feeble response can usually be very easily resolved to the satisfaction of all parties just by applying a little common sense and a basic understanding of how things work here.

Thais are, on the whole, very reasonable people who dislike confrontation as much as the next man. More often than not, when a problem does arise, most Thais are only too happy - if not relieved - to work any potential unpleasantness out over a few dishes of grub and a bottle (or two) of wallop.

I agree with your sentiments above and the general spirit of your OP. HOWEVER, what do you tell a farang person who has nothing but contempt for the Thais and Thailand, never has anything positive to say about the locals, never tries to adapt to the society, doesn't respect the locals, doesn't attempt to learn the language, doesn't have any Thai friends, constantly points out Thailand's shortcomings as compared to his homeland, treats the locals with disdain, and does nothing but complain day-in and day-out? I think the ONLY appropriate comment for such a person is that he go the <snip!> back to where he came from. What's wrong with that?

In my time here, I have found that virtually ALL of the small problems (and a fair few of the bigger ones) which invoke this feeble response can usually be very easily resolved to the satisfaction of all parties just by applying a little common sense and a basic understanding of how things work here.

Thais are, on the whole, very reasonable people who dislike confrontation as much as the next man. More often than not, when a problem does arise, most Thais are only too happy - if not relieved - to work any potential unpleasantness out over a few dishes of grub and a bottle (or two) of wallop.

I agree with your sentiments above and the general spirit of your OP. HOWEVER, what do you tell a farang person who has nothing but contempt for the Thais and Thailand, never has anything positive to say about the locals, never tries to adapt to the society, doesn't respect the locals, doesn't attempt to learn the language, doesn't have any Thai friends, constantly points out Thailand's shortcomings as compared to his homeland, treats the locals with disdain, and does nothing but complain day-in and day-out? I think the ONLY appropriate comment for such a person is that he go the <snip!> back to where he came from. What's wrong with that?

Agreed, but if you tell them that, they'll probably start complain about the infamous " Thai apologists "

Couldn't agree more with that HD! From experience I find that the people I meet with attitudes like "We are guests here so if you don't like it, leave", are working here but fall under the umbrella of the corporates or big companies where everything is taken care of for them and they don't really have to interact. Whereas they are expats, I like to call them plastic expats. (Likely get a bit of sh1t for that! )

Of course you also have the knobs and curtain twitchers willing to believe everything that is told to them instead of verifying it for themselves..........

Edit: This is just covering the people living here.

to the contrary, i see them as retirees trapped in the middle of ubon butfuc_k with a wife they cant understand, village headman they don't know and a trip to big C in hopes of an affordable block of cheddar as a weekly highlight.

People on the expat packages are very happy simply because they do not need to interact. They do not have any problems with immigration or visa runs, because someone is bending over backwards to ensure they feel welcome.

ever thought that if you are having problems with immigration or visa runs its becasue you have not integrated - joined society etc? sounds like they are doing the job properly