TrueVisions Launched 17 HD Channels, Blocked Pirate Users Overnight

[reenatinnakor]

This won't end the argument......but here goes.....

You use True if you want to watch live EPL and La Liga and Serie A - I do.....and so do many thousands living in Thailand....so there is no choice but True. The tennis, snooker, golf and sometimes even a Floyd Mayweather fight is a bonus. But if you can't live without the EPL then you need to have True.

Yes there's myp2p.pe and wysiwig.tv that you can watch a 2mb HD stream with Dutch or Russian commentary with 5 second delay....but if you're stuck in the countryside and on a TOT Satellite internet feed then again there is no choice but True.

We know all about how to download films via utorrent and use a hdmi cable to connect the computer to the Samsung plasma that we all bought at Tesco or Big C....so no need to patronise us how to use the interweb and download and stream shit....some people just don't have the bandwidth.

If you don't like football (the game where you use your feet, not your hands) and you have a decent cable internet connection, then you can live without True.

[SOTIRIOS]

...the channels have all been moved around....

..my 'Silver' package now seems to afford me even fewer channels....

...what next....

[JayBangkok]

A few points.to add:-

Firstly yes HD has a big point even without Euro football (I hate football personally but felt sorry for others that wanted to see it) like now ESPN HS is there so the F1 GPs will be in full HD as well as other sports too including a lot of football for you fans of it. 17 HD channels is a good package but I am not paying nearly 3000 Baht a month for it just a rip off price and still wont be able to record programs and TimeShift like I can on my Openbox S10.. Very peed off that I cannot just stick a usual pucker True subscription decryption card in my Openbox now as I do not want a bloody True box which is likely inferior to my Openbox anyway. Mind you I can understand their point of view too so cannot really moan too much about that, but I can still moan about the rip off package prices than many many are not prepared to pay.

Just checked and the Openbox S10 is as I thought MPEG4 compliant so it can receive the signals and demod them okay and thus probably why those with Openboxes can still receive the free to air "Knowledge Package" channels. So now it is just the decryption service problem at a reasonable price. I am sure this is being worked on as we speak and just a matter of time, but how long if indeed it is even possible ??? Does anyone know if the older Dreambox DM500 (has no HDMI connection available) is MPEG4 compliant?? I personally doubt that it is, so even the free to air Sat channels will not be available on an old DM500 if those unencrypted channels are all now moved onto the MPEG4 system.

I agree though that it was very very naff of Truevision to switch off for the changeover at 23:00 last night that was way way too early and still at the latter end of peak viewing time. Should have waited until about 2:00 AM and back on at midday today much more customer friendly if they understand that term !!!!!!!!

Maybe time to move to another satellite or maybe still say one of the other transponders on the current satellite that carries Truevision (say Bynamar or DTV ??) may still be decrypt-able on the old system so can see this as a possible option for those that have now lost the Truevision channels. Maybe if Truevision, who I see now carry advertising and thus I believe do now get advertising revenue, would halve their package prices then they would get a lot more customers and maybe overall then even earn more money from the service, but hey that will put the many card sharing services out of business and possibly drastically reduce the BiB tea money fund so I cannot see that being allowed to happen for too long hmm

Anyway I mainly use torrents from UKNova and The Box for all my UK TV shows and many in HD and good quality SD too, heck I am sad enough even to watch EastEnders in HD the day after it is broadcast. I am patient and can always wait until the following day to watch the programs I want to see and even the F1 I love I can get the full BBC HD coverage the next day so just keep away from the News channels so I do not know the result. What is the rush or need to have to see it live? Patience is all that is needed along with avoiding hearing the results before you watch it, then it is every bit as good and probably with a better quality picture and letting you watch it at a time that fits in with the rest of your life.

I just wish that Geo Blocking would be banned worldwide as it is only there to feed the fat cap program makers who already make far too much money. Programs should only be sold these days with WorldWIde licenses then the BBC could issue Internet only TV licences so all UK expats can watch BBC TV live from anywhere with a streamed encrypted service available to all special internet licence holders say for a fair £25 a year (after all it is a much lower quality service than the full UK TV licence gives you so has to be a lot cheaper). That would give more needed revenue for the BBC too without incurring hardly any addition cost to them over the current service and the same goes for other countries too where their expats want to watch home TV too from anywhere in the world. The technology is here with us for some time just the stupidity and/or greed of man that holds it all back against the majority wishes. Actually I do not expect a free ride and am perfectly willing to pay a reasonable non rip off price for a streamed TV service I can watch on my PC or Smart TV, or yes even free if the channel is funded from advertising revenue unlike the BBC. As it is now there are only so called illegal methods giving folk no option other than to watch illegally or not at all, a pretty bum choice if you ask me!!!!!!!!

Sorry if any of this has been mentioned before but not the time to read all of this long thread.

F1 on ESPN Star Sports has far too many adverts. Better to watch BBC for the races they cover

[MaprangHolmes]

Oh how unhappy all you pirates and bootleggers are.....and very bitter......at last, all those who have been talking like smartarses for all this time about full True service almost for nothing are having to eat humble pie!!

The whole thing is way more simple than all of you try to pretend. If you buy into True, they provide you with a box and a dish, and when it goes wrong or you have a problem you phone True and an engineer comes out and fixes it.....it really is that simple!!

If on the other hand youre a dreambox pirate, well you can hardly complain can you, because how in hell do you expect True to let you have their signals for free when you dont pay into the system??!!

I m no apologist for True, I have major issues with some of their programming.....but at the end of the day, I pay the legitimate fee for the legitimate service, and there is absolutely no justifiable complaint from the cheapskate bootleggers since you pay zero baht to True!!!

You may be right or may be wrong time well tell I would give it no more then one week before all the dream boxes and alike are all back up and running with the full channel program. On the new system the card is matched to the true box the same as in the UK with sky TV and that system can use card sharing some people are making big money out of running these servers so they wont want to lose that income for very long.

Second issue is really true is very over priced 2000 plus per month is a lot of money when you compare that to the average Thai income if you compare sky tv pricing to true's pricing and then compare income levels you may realise why so many people use a different way to still be able to get some TV channels without the high price.

[LivinLOS]

not to mention waiting hours for a download of poor quality and possible virus infection that will take out your pc.

Hardly when you dont use a windows PC for viewing the files...

XBMC on linux or Boxee box STBs.. No more likely to get a virus an an apple TV or a google TV box.

Edited July 16, 2012 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

Re: capturing and distributing the feed from the receivers (or any HDMi source) over a network, couldn't you use HDMI to IP devices? This thread may be of interest to you... http://www.avsforum....rd-ethernet-lan

Funny.. I was one of the moderators on there for years..

[arkom]

Oh how unhappy all you pirates and bootleggers are.....and very bitter......at last, all those who have been talking like smartarses for all this time about full True service almost for nothing are having to eat humble pie!!

The whole thing is way more simple than all of you try to pretend. If you buy into True, they provide you with a box and a dish, and when it goes wrong or you have a problem you phone True and an engineer comes out and fixes it.....it really is that simple!!

If on the other hand youre a dreambox pirate, well you can hardly complain can you, because how in hell do you expect True to let you have their signals for free when you dont pay into the system??!!

I m no apologist for True, I have major issues with some of their programming.....but at the end of the day, I pay the legitimate fee for the legitimate service, and there is absolutely no justifiable complaint from the cheapskate bootleggers since you pay zero baht to True!!!

You may be right or may be wrong time well tell I would give it no more then one week before all the dream boxes and alike are all back up and running with the full channel program. On the new system the card is matched to the true box the same as in the UK with sky TV and that system can use card sharing some people are making big money out of running these servers so they wont want to lose that income for very long.

Second issue is really true is very over priced 2000 plus per month is a lot of money when you compare that to the average Thai income if you compare sky tv pricing to true's pricing and then compare income levels you may realise why so many people use a different way to still be able to get some TV channels without the high price.

I would agree with the second issue. In another Thai forum most of the comments were about pricing, mainly complaining about how high they are. They suggested that if True lowered the pricing to something more reasonable they would be more than happy to pay.

[BillyBobThai]

Chanel 18 on my Openbox gets a movie in English.

[Ferangled]

Re: capturing and distributing the feed from the receivers (or any HDMi source) over a network, couldn't you use HDMI to IP devices? This thread may be of interest to you... http://www.avsforum....rd-ethernet-lan

Funny.. I was one of the moderators on there for years..

Really?! Small world... Some useful snippets of info on there but like all forums you end up wading through the BS to find the truth of the matter... what's the expression, the emptiest vessels make the most noise?! I have used similar HDMi - IP devices with great results in the past but I guess that's not going to help you in regard to local control of the feed, just in getting it there...

[Ferangled]

Oh how unhappy all you pirates and bootleggers are.....and very bitter......at last, all those who have been talking like smartarses for all this time about full True service almost for nothing are having to eat humble pie!!

The whole thing is way more simple than all of you try to pretend. If you buy into True, they provide you with a box and a dish, and when it goes wrong or you have a problem you phone True and an engineer comes out and fixes it.....it really is that simple!!

If on the other hand youre a dreambox pirate, well you can hardly complain can you, because how in hell do you expect True to let you have their signals for free when you dont pay into the system??!!

I m no apologist for True, I have major issues with some of their programming.....but at the end of the day, I pay the legitimate fee for the legitimate service, and there is absolutely no justifiable complaint from the cheapskate bootleggers since you pay zero baht to True!!!

You may be right or may be wrong time well tell I would give it no more then one week before all the dream boxes and alike are all back up and running with the full channel program. On the new system the card is matched to the true box the same as in the UK with sky TV and that system can use card sharing some people are making big money out of running these servers so they wont want to lose that income for very long.

Second issue is really true is very over priced 2000 plus per month is a lot of money when you compare that to the average Thai income if you compare sky tv pricing to true's pricing and then compare income levels you may realise why so many people use a different way to still be able to get some TV channels without the high price.

I would agree with the second issue. In another Thai forum most of the comments were about pricing, mainly complaining about how high they are. They suggested that if True lowered the pricing to something more reasonable they would be more than happy to pay.

While it's a pertinent point I notice that Thais don't tend to moan about the price of cars in relation to wages, despite being considerably more expensive than the UK... so many people on low incomes driving red plate SUVs! I guess the difference being you can't buy a pirate copy Fortuner!

The fact is that for your average Thai, that can't understand English, you can get the basic package, knowledge for c.500 bt a month... but why would they when they can get the full pirated package for less?!

[Jessi]

Just my opinion, but True is crap! I've had it for over 15 years and have never been satisfied with it, service, content or quality. If ever another legitimate satellite company is allowed to do business here I'll sign up. I can hear people now, "Why would you have it for 15 years if it's crap"? Two phrases come to mind "the only game in town" and "the best of the worst".

+1 Please let me know when another company starts up.

[RBOP]

I am on Koh Samui have the new HD+ box can I get it working have unplugged it taken out card taken out tv aerial at least twice keep getting error 16 plus faint message underneath saying box is rebooting driving me mad true line busy cannot get thru !!!!!! I have a satellite and not cable but thya should not matter !!!!! HELP !!!!!!

Try leaving it plugged in and turned on. It may take a while to download the new update.

[Ferangled]

Just my opinion, but True is crap! I've had it for over 15 years and have never been satisfied with it, service, content or quality. If ever another legitimate satellite company is allowed to do business here I'll sign up. I can hear people now, "Why would you have it for 15 years if it's crap"? Two phrases come to mind "the only game in town" and "the best of the worst".

+1 Please let me know when another company starts up.

They already have... GMM Grammy... look forward to hearing your feedback on the content and quality of their services!!!

[rayw]

F1 on ESPN Star Sports has far too many adverts. Better to watch BBC for the races they cover

!00% agree but you cannot expect something for free and as I say if it were possible I would gladly pay a BBC Internet licence fee for streaming live TV form them. What does really piss me off though is that I understand that with football matches there are no adverts during each half (don;t know for sure as I never watch football). So if this is true it is totally unfair as the same rule should apply to F1 motor racing or at least as it isa longer duration maybe just one break half way through timed not to coincide with the anticipated main round of pit stops. I am not saying it is wrong or unfair for the football fans to get uninterrupted coverage as I feel good luck to them and happy for them too, but it truly IS unfair on the F1 fans out there who get a sham deal on Eurosport /.Starsport with a stupid amount of commercial breaks.

I do have a very good paid for VPN service (which without Geo Blocking I should not need!!!) but often the internet links from Thailand are just not up to it on weekends and you get many annoying pauses, but sometimes it works bloody well with little of no pauses and in high quality mode too so I can then thankfully watch it live on BBC some weeks and free only because the BBC in their stupidity give me no means to pay anything for this service, preferring it seems in their pointless narrow minded idiot way to bar me from enjoying their service !!!!!!!!!!! So once again I have only two choices, either don't watch it or watch it free, so guess what I and any sensible guy would do hmm ???

Jay as I said I usually download the full coverage on HD from The Box or UKNova torrents site and a big NO whoever suggested it there are NO viruses from those sites as they are well managed and pretty secure members only sites. which I have been using for years never with any problems and mainly watch them streamed from my NAS Drives to my Smart TV for maximum quality.

[metisdead]

Some nonsense trolling posts have been removed.

[MikeyIdea]

I have been a cable TV subscriber in Bangkok for over 15 years,. Well, it wasn't TRUE in the beginning of course. My old analog box suddenly stopped working in March I think it was, TV turned black, and I had to call True. I got no apology whatsoever, just, we must come and replace your box with the new HD box

They actually came the next day, changing the box but keeping the over 15 year old cable... Goodie

I have paid 1,413 baht per month for years now and I paid 1,200 something baht per month for years before that

I had absolutely zero HD channels yesterday so a quick question to you all: How many HD channels should I have if I have True cable in Bangkok and pay 1,413 baht per month?

Mikey

Edited July 16, 2012 by MikeyIdea

[ronthai]

So Jayman, share the joy, what are the ingredients & method ?

I'm happy to share all the info.. I don't sell or produce and illegal anything and take serious offense to being accused of such activity.. unfortunately this is not the place to discuss such thing and I don't run any sort of forum or store that sells such info. Use google... it's all out there but might not suit the technically challenged whos life become completed having HD concerts of Tata Young to watch.

He is just talking about torrents, which any knowledgeble internet "freak" already knows about

[LivinLOS]

So Jayman, share the joy, what are the ingredients & method ?

I'm happy to share all the info.. I don't sell or produce and illegal anything and take serious offense to being accused of such activity.. unfortunately this is not the place to discuss such thing and I don't run any sort of forum or store that sells such info. Use google... it's all out there but might not suit the technically challenged whos life become completed having HD concerts of Tata Young to watch.

He is just talking about torrents, which any knowledgeble internet "freak" already knows about

Yes but the automation of torrent addition is actually new and useful information for me..

I intend to sort out some RSS feeds for series's I like (breaking bad) in HD quality and test out how well that solution auto finds and auto populates a test area on my media server. Up to now I had been doing it manually.

[thaiexpattv]

F1 on ESPN Star Sports has far too many adverts. Better to watch BBC for the races they cover

!00% agree but you cannot expect something for free and as I say if it were possible I would gladly pay a BBC Internet licence fee for streaming live TV form them. What does really piss me off though is that I understand that with football matches there are no adverts during each half (don;t know for sure as I never watch football). So if this is true it is totally unfair as the same rule should apply to F1 motor racing or at least as it isa longer duration maybe just one break half way through timed not to coincide with the anticipated main round of pit stops. I am not saying it is wrong or unfair for the football fans to get uninterrupted coverage as I feel good luck to them and happy for them too, but it truly IS unfair on the F1 fans out there who get a sham deal on Eurosport /.Starsport with a stupid amount of commercial breaks.

I do have a very good paid for VPN service (which without Geo Blocking I should not need!!!) but often the internet links from Thailand are just not up to it on weekends and you get many annoying pauses, but sometimes it works bloody well with little of no pauses and in high quality mode too so I can then thankfully watch it live on BBC some weeks and free only because the BBC in their stupidity give me no means to pay anything for this service, preferring it seems in their pointless narrow minded idiot way to bar me from enjoying their service !!!!!!!!!!! So once again I have only two choices, either don't watch it or watch it free, so guess what I and any sensible guy would do hmm ???

Jay as I said I usually download the full coverage on HD from The Box or UKNova torrents site and a big NO whoever suggested it there are NO viruses from those sites as they are well managed and pretty secure members only sites. which I have been using for years never with any problems and mainly watch them streamed from my NAS Drives to my Smart TV for maximum quality.

Hi Rayw,

We offer BBC coverage of the F1 season on our service, with no adverts and the very best commentary. The same goes for the forthcoming Olympic coverage. Later this month we will be launching our sports package that will include several channels that feature the very best sporting action from around the world.

You can sign up for our free 2 day trial and see just how high quality our service is, before you commit to becoming a subscriber.

https://www.thaiexpat.tv/free_trial.php

Best regards,

Admin

[Barefoot]

For what it's worth, I talked to a Dreambox "handler" (for lack of a better term) today, and he told me not to expect any quick solution because the new encryption is very strong. He suggested a couple of alternatives, one in Malaysia and one in Vietnam, but neither solution came close to the 17 HD channels offered by Truevision Platinum. So I walked into their Pattaya Klang office today, expecting a crowd, but I was the only one there. They will show up tomorrow to install everything. So these tales of a one-month order backlog do not appear to apply to Pattaya.

[Jayman]

For what it's worth, I talked to a Dreambox "handler" (for lack of a better term) today, and he told me not to expect any quick solution because the new encryption is very strong. He suggested a couple of alternatives, one in Malaysia and one in Vietnam, but neither solution came close to the 17 HD channels offered by Truevision Platinum. So I walked into their Pattaya Klang office today, expecting a crowd, but I was the only one there. They will show up tomorrow to install everything. So these tales of a one-month order backlog do not appear to apply to Pattaya.

Thank you for sharing some true life experience with us. It's a help for those interested to know of some current real world info.

[maeab]

For what it's worth, I talked to a Dreambox "handler" (for lack of a better term) today, and he told me not to expect any quick solution because the new encryption is very strong. He suggested a couple of alternatives, one in Malaysia and one in Vietnam, but neither solution came close to the 17 HD channels offered by Truevision Platinum. So I walked into their Pattaya Klang office today, expecting a crowd, but I was the only one there. They will show up tomorrow to install everything. So these tales of a one-month order backlog do not appear to apply to Pattaya.

Sounds to me that you have beat the rush that will be coming soon.

[madmitch]

Just my opinion, but True is crap! I've had it for over 15 years and have never been satisfied with it, service, content or quality. If ever another legitimate satellite company is allowed to do business here I'll sign up. I can hear people now, "Why would you have it for 15 years if it's crap"? Two phrases come to mind "the only game in town" and "the best of the worst".

+1 Please let me know when another company starts up.

They already have... GMM Grammy... look forward to hearing your feedback on the content and quality of their services!!!

Bought a box for the house in the village. Only stay there for a few weeks per year so it's mainly for the GF as I can live with DVDs and torrents there. No HD and three part-English channels plus a monthly payment package for a few not very exciting English language channels that I have no idea how to subscribe to! No comparison to True Visions.

[LivinLOS]

Yes I too dont expect any quick progress on cardsharing for this encryption I expect that it will require a new approach, much like cardsharing was new a few years ago, to attack a weak point in the chain.

However really, its far more likely that IPTV will be the norm and we will all be using >100 Mbit FTTH or whatever type lines in the not so distant future.. Once that is the case services like the maigo IPTV system will flourish and content will be simply rebroadcast by pirates via uber cheap IPTV distribution. Very little that can be done to stop that and it will be the 'next' way of accessing 1000's of channels of FullHD content and at the same time video on demand etc.

Remember when music downloads took time to come in ?? When it couldnt stream in any quality ?? Now you have high quality albums in before the kettle has boiled. The same thing will happen with video content.

[Pib]

I have been a cable TV subscriber in Bangkok for over 15 years,. Well, it wasn't TRUE in the beginning of course. My old analog box suddenly stopped working in March I think it was, TV turned black, and I had to call True. I got no apology whatsoever, just, we must come and replace your box with the new HD box

They actually came the next day, changing the box but keeping the over 15 year old cable... Goodie

I have paid 1,413 baht per month for years now and I paid 1,200 something baht per month for years before that

I had absolutely zero HD channels yesterday so a quick question to you all: How many HD channels should I have if I have True cable in Bangkok and pay 1,413 baht per month?

Mikey

For Gold package members I think it's 10 HD channels but you must pay 150 baht per month for the 10 HD channels. For Platinum package members you get all 17 HD channels for free.

See this TrueVisions News Link for HD pricing info by package. You may need to press the English button at the bottom of the news link to get it to display in English.

[Nisa]

I was incandescent last evening when True Non-Visions decided to blank out the final stages of the Scottish Open golf tournament at 2300. My excitement had been building over the previous two hours when the result was more and more in doubt and it was becoming a very much nip and tuck affair. At the end of the month my box goes back, with the unpaid monthly invoice, and if they cock up the showing of The Open this week I shall be taking a 4 lb hammer to it before handing it in. Enough is enough.

Anybody advising me that I need a course in anger management can stick his advice where the sun doesn't shine.

You need a course in anger management!

True had advertised this change over and when it would take place for bloody months, frequent banners across the bottom of the screen and they even marked it on the TV guide so no one could have any excuse for not knowing when it would happen.

They had to take the service off line at some point to enact the changes and a IMHO a few disgruntled late night golf viewers is a fair price to pay for the vast improvement to the HD channel line-up!

HMMM - logic be damned - convert during prime viewing, instead of 0:30AM - 10AM, when nothing much is happening...

When did 11pm to 9am become prime time viewing?

[MrMuddle]

I've had True visions for 11 years, was with UBC before, I pay my bill every month and now can only get the basic channels NOT the Gold package I'm paying for. My receiver is a Samart DSTV unit, does anyone know if these are now blocked ? We'll be giving them hell in Phetchabun tomorrow, that's for sure. Doesn't the Thai government get involved in cases where a company screws it's customers like this ? Absolutely disgraceful way to run a company, and a country !

[MrMuddle]

So Jayman, share the joy, what are the ingredients & method ?

I guess that the keyword is "torrent"...

correct.. torrents have all the content you could ever want in very HD quality all out there free for the taking. No sat dishes or program guides required. I use a NMT that I tell it what I like to watch and it monitors the schedules and as soon as the shows air they are downloaded and wait for me to press play on my TV. Stuff that TRUE would never carry nor any of these other asian sats. It really all depends what you want to watch. I don't watch sports as it does nothing for me to see men running around playing grab ass.

What do you want to watch today?

http://eztv.it/

http://www.bt-chat.com/

http://www.seventorrents.com/

oh cool.. just noticed that Breaking bad season just started Sunday night in US and now the new episode in HD has already been downloaded and is waiting for me to press play. And Weeds... who doesn't like weeds?

How do you keep your downloads per month to under 5GB ? Or is there an unlimited download package in Thailand I'm unaware of ?

[ronthai]

http://www.thaiexpat.tv

I just downloaded the 2 days free trial and I must say the streaming is flawless and high quality.

It is a new company (7 weeks young) with now 8 British channels and they say they are expanding to also US channels.

If they play their cards wright, they could out do TrueVision very soon, with all English, US, Dutch and other English spreaking farangs.

You can do it by software/computer (Sorry Mac users, Windows ONLY) only or buy their box.

I now have the 2 day free trial on my laptop which is connect to my 42" flatscreen TV.

Some problems I encountered (software ONLY based):

Software crashed/crashed many times, but as I am writing this it now works flawless for about 60 minutes (looking Alien 1,Sigorny Weaver)

Since the software runs on my laptop and the software is NOT in a window, but uses fullscreen, you MUST set the dualscreen settings to KLOON.

The problem with that is the screenresolutions, that will not give a correct resolution to look at the programs.

Of course if you just look on your desktop/laptop (small screen) you do not have that problem.

When the software crashes the EXIT button also does not work, which means the only way to get out of the software it to restart your laptop.

Sometimes the sound is out of sync for a few seconds (5-20) and then does a catch-up and is back in sync again.

If in time they will get the software in a window, so the screen resolution will be the wright size I will signup for the max of 2 years (10500 Bath), just to support them and they have nice programming. Also with delay watching, 6 and 18 hours delay, so you can watch what was on TV yesterday.

To be continued.

Edited July 16, 2012 by ronthai

[Nisa]

I've had True visions for 11 years, was with UBC before, I pay my bill every month and now can only get the basic channels NOT the Gold package I'm paying for. My receiver is a Samart DSTV unit, does anyone know if these are now blocked ? We'll be giving them hell in Phetchabun tomorrow, that's for sure. Doesn't the Thai government get involved in cases where a company screws it's customers like this ? Absolutely disgraceful way to run a company, and a country !

Last time some of my premium cable channels went out for a day due to upgrades / technical problems in the US, Obama and congress were all over it by fining and issuing indictments to all the board members of my cable company. I won't even mention what they did for me when my internet connection was having problems.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Nisa