Upgrading Ubc To Bigger Dish To Help Avoid Rain Fade

[monty]

In my experience of Thai Dish Installations - you would be better off getting someone who was competent in aligning and peaking your current dish with a decent signal meter rather than having Somchai 1 watching the TV while Somchai 2 moves it left a bit right a bit up a bit down a bit - Bernie the Bolt!

It is bizarre that a company as big as TRUE do not have their installation contractors using signal strength meters. It would probably reduce the amount of pi$$ed off customer calls to their call centre if they did and would probably save installation time between Somchai 1 and 2 shouting back and forth.

On a side note, is it worth installing an inline amplifier in the cable between LNB and decoder to boost up the signal?

In my admittedly limited experience, line amps are only usefull with very long cable runs or before passive splitters.

Signal strength is seldom an issue, but rather signal quality, i.e. how well the receiver can distinguish the actual signal out of all the useless noise the lnb picks up. Line amps amplify noise just as much as the actual signal, resulting in zero gain in quality...

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[Pib]

On a side note, is it worth installing an inline amplifier in the cable between LNB and decoder to boost up the signal?

Maybe is answer. It will vary from installation to installation, equipment being used, etc. While it will increase/amplifier Signal Strength it will also increase/amplifier background noise which can lower your Signal Quality. Therefore, you might get X-increase in Signal Strength but at the same time get X-decrease in Signal Quality. And if the Signal Strength was good before installing the inline amplifier, then by installing the amp you have increased Signal Strength (which was good enough already), but decreased Signal Quality---in this example installing the amp would be a bad idea....in fact, your rainfade problems could very well be made worst.

For those folks who have aligned satellite dishes they know that once a dish is "pretty close" to be pointed right at the satellite that the Signal Strength will peak/level out with perfect alignment possibly adding no additional signal strength, however, but, further minor dish alignment can make very significant increases in Signal Quality while not afffecting Signal Strength at all. But with both Signal Strength and Signal Quality peaked the rainfade will be reduced...a stronger and better quality signal is being fed into your settop box.

It you do install an inline amp be sure to install it a close as possible to the LNB/dish to minimize the noise amplification...closer the better. If you install the amp right before it goes into your settop box all the noise picked up on the line between the LNB/dish and the amp will be amplified along with the signal....amplification of the noise causes signal distortion which degrades Signal Quality. If the inline amp was installed close to the LNB output then the signal gets amplified and since the distance between the LNB and inline amp was short the amount of additional noise to get amplified is lowered.

Yeap, it will vary from installation to installation, depends on the equipment being used such as the possibility of mutliswitches or other devices being between the LNB and settop box, and other factors. But for a run-of-the-mill installation with a short to medium length cable run it probably will not help....and remember Signal Strength is not the only thing to be concerned about...Signal Quality is all important also.

[TwentyBaht]

monty and pib have given excellent information. Would only add that LNB skew angle and focal length adjustment are important for an optimized dish. And, often overlooked. Tweaking takes time.

As to signal meters? IMHO, a dish can be optimized quite nicely with a receiver. And, someone adjusting the dish in slight increments. Via cellphone. Better signal meters are expensive. So, not all sat shops will afford them.

And, a dish should be tweaked periodically for best reception. (i.e., fasteners will loosen, exposed LNB and cabling will deteriorate)

For those with a DIY bent, maybe ask the installer to show you how to do this. It's a matter of loosening bolts and making very slight adjustments. Not, rocket science.

Cheers

[ThaidDown]

May I suggest that before you actually 'tweak' the position of any dish you mark its current position.

Personally put a line of Tippex/Liquid Paper across the fixed and moveable junctions of the mount and when it's dry mark accurately with a fine pencil. If you do this you will easily be able to return to the initial position if you get 'lost' whilst.

I recently had an intermittent LNB (Standard True system) and, instead of waiting several days for the service men to come, replaced it with a spare I had. Managed to set up the dish for 100% signal level and !00% quality, the latter is something that I have not managed before.

[TS79]

So what advice would u suggest to try and tweek the dish a little bit for a signal that right now is showing the following levels (pic attached) weather is pretty good, little bit of cloud cover:

True Visions HD Box

Signal Strength is maxed out at 100% (255)

Signal Quality is right at the bottom of the scale with a BER fluctuating around the 30000.0E-7 level.

Would the procedure be something like, go left tiny bit and see if signal strength remains 100% but the quality increases? If not then go right a little bit, up, down etc. How to go about adjusting the LNB?

The picture is normally fine except any small showers has a detrimental effect. Its a great "get the washing" in warning though as an earlier poster said.

[ThaidDown]

Having marked the initial position as I posted previously, my method is to rotate the dish about the vertical access for best, then change elevation, up and down, I then repeat the first vertical and elevation adjustments. Only after having found the best dish position do I go onto the LNB.

Rotate the LNB, again for best, then adjust distance from dish face. That's how I've done it as I do not have access to signal meter.

Notes...It is so much easier if you can see the set up image, rather than using shouting, or using phone, to a partner. With the non HD boxes that had an RF output (coax) it was easy to put an old 14 inch tv in the eyeline. The new HD box does not have rf out (well mine does not) but you can run a long lead from the video out (yellow) of the AV out to AV video in of remote tv. Video quality is not important and you do not need audio.

Signal quality is as important (maybe more so) as signal level. So if you get a significant rise in sig. quality and a small fall in sig. level, that is ok.

Good luck.but maybe Pib has a better method.

Screen shot below of mine.

[TS79]

Great thanks. I will give it a try over the next few days to see what (if any) improvements I can find. I'm now on a mission to get both to 100% as yours is.

[TS79]

Great thanks. I will give it a try over the next few days to see what (if any) improvements I can find. I'm now on a mission to get both to 100% as yours is.

So spent an hour on the roof today trying to align and optimise the dish. I had some success in getting the BER down from 40,000E-7 to 2500E-7 but could not get it lower than this (see before and after photo). One thing I noticed was that when I was rotating the dish on the horizontal (left to right) is that the signal quality was (how can I say) moving from left with poor signal, going further right getting strong, further right again weaker, further right again stronger and finally further right even more was very poor. i.e. it had two stronger parts with a weak part in the middle !!

Rotating the LNB helped a little to improve the quality but there was no effects from moving the LNB closer / farther away to the dish.

I then noticed that the dish was pointing almost directly in line with a power pole just outside the boundary of our house (see pic) although this pole is quite narrow is it possible that it could be blocking the signal in the middle of the two stronger parts of the dish rotation or is it too narrow for this? If this could be the problem then it looks like I need to relocate the dish to the other side of the house and try again.

What do you think satellite guru's?

[jsat]

I then noticed that the dish was pointing almost directly in line with a power pole just outside the boundary of our house (see pic) although this pole is quite narrow is it possible that it could be blocking the signal in the middle of the two stronger parts of the dish rotation or is it too narrow for this? If this could be the problem then it looks like I need to relocate the dish to the other side of the house and try again.

What do you think satellite guru's?

Your 'offset' dish does not look straight at the satellite, as an offset dish looks on av. 24 degrees higher, so the power lines in the photo is not an issue.

[Pib]

I then noticed that the dish was pointing almost directly in line with a power pole just outside the boundary of our house (see pic) although this pole is quite narrow is it possible that it could be blocking the signal in the middle of the two stronger parts of the dish rotation or is it too narrow for this? If this could be the problem then it looks like I need to relocate the dish to the other side of the house and try again.

What do you think satellite guru's?

Your 'offset' dish does not look straight at the satellite, as an offset dish looks on av. 24 degrees higher, so the power lines in the photo is not an issue.

Yes, an offset dish is actually receiving satellite transmissions at a higher angle as mentioned by jsat above than compared to the visual angle of the dish. So I would expect the pole is not interfering with the dish's line of sight to the satellite. I can see you have the LNB turned to the approx 4:30 clock position which is correct. And based on my experience by tweaking the rotation of the LNB say to the 4 or 5 o'clock has little affect (now go beyond that and it starts affecting things significantly)...also the very slight forward or backward LNB movement possible within its holder will have very little affect...maybe a half a db if that. But everybody's results will vary. Getting the dish aligned dead on to the satellite will make the most difference in Signal Strength and Signal Quality.

[monty]

I find it strange that quality remains so low.

I don't have one of those receivers, but normally ber should be rock solid on zero in clear weather.

If it starts creaping up, it means their are errors in the datastream received.

Normally all transponders used by truevisions come in very strong, even on a 60cm dish, I see you have the standard 75cm True issued dish, so you should not have those issues.

Only things I can think of are a dud lnb (although usually they either work or they don't), problem with the cable/connections between dish and receiver or some sort of outside interfetence, maybe a microwave beam very close to you...

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[jbrain]

I don't want to highjack this thread, but I have a related question.I'm currently in Pattaya receiving the Measat signal using a old, cheap and slightly damaged 7' C-band wire mesh dish with a prime focus KU lnb.

My signal is very acceptable,however I guess it always can be improved.

What would be my best option.

1. Upgrading to a solid 1.5 meter KU offset dish with offset Lnb

2. Upgrading to a 8' better quality C-band wire mesh dish with the current prime focus KU Lnb.

[jbrain]

Before you consider to change your dish you may want to try this option as i also have installed on my ubc dish its 95% better performance in the rain and i only loose the signal if heavy heavy rain http://www.satellite...&products_id=85

These lnb are designed for europe and made in europe where it rains everyday !!

and not made in thailand .

iT Really does improve the signal and rain loss

Why is it that a TV sponsor , YOU , who claims to have a legitimate business doesn't answer 1 phone call out of 15 made in over 3 weeks time, or even doesn't return a call when this is requested with the Thai partner of the company?Bit fishy, not?

[necronx99]

We have a 3.2m (10') petal solid dish here - first offer over THB 10,000, (normal cost at trade THB 32,000 but this is used) take it away in your pick up truck.

Why would a 3.2 meter solid dish be almost 5 times the price of a 1.80 meter solid offset dish.

D19 หน้า จาน KU180cm

( 7,000.-)

หน้าจาน 180 cm

ใช้งานระบบ โดยเฉพาะรับ Dream TV

Pi.

Math.

[astral]

These lnb are designed for europe and made in europe where it rains everyday !!

and not made in thailand .

I am sorry that is a naive answer.

The LNB's may be manufactured in Europe, and yes it does rain there.

BUT not the large drops of a tropical rain storm, that are close in size to wave length of the Ku band signal

This sheds a little more light on the subject

[IPTVThailand]

Before you consider to change your dish you may want to try this option as i also have installed on my ubc dish its 95% better performance in the rain and i only loose the signal if heavy heavy rain http://www.satellite...&products_id=85

These lnb are designed for europe and made in europe where it rains everyday !!

and not made in thailand .

iT Really does improve the signal and rain loss

Why is it that a TV sponsor , YOU , who claims to have a legitimate business doesn't answer 1 phone call out of 15 made in over 3 weeks time, or even doesn't return a call when this is requested with the Thai partner of the company?Bit fishy, not?

Well very simple really i have thai staff to answer the phone / you actually get me on skype 24/7 no problems at all

I mainly deal with the online admin and internet orders which are prompt and since i get so many online orders that takes up 95% of my time .

But if you would like to speak to me in person and dont have luck on the phone just PM me your telephone number and you will get a phone call in less than 5 mins flat - anyone who pms there tel number always get a phone call back .For your info i have been trading in Thailand with a registered co ltd since 1999 so relax im not going anywhere just pm your number and i will call you .Note i will proberly tell you the same thing my thai staff tell you order online and youll get delivery within 1-3 days depending on your location also if you order online i do personally now always telephone the customers to confirm the order - That would also be a easy way to get hold of me also ?

[jbrain]

Before you consider to change your dish you may want to try this option as i also have installed on my ubc dish its 95% better performance in the rain and i only loose the signal if heavy heavy rain http://www.satellite...&products_id=85

These lnb are designed for europe and made in europe where it rains everyday !!

and not made in thailand .

iT Really does improve the signal and rain loss

Why is it that a TV sponsor , YOU , who claims to have a legitimate business doesn't answer 1 phone call out of 15 made in over 3 weeks time, or even doesn't return a call when this is requested with the Thai partner of the company?Bit fishy, not?

Well very simple really i have thai staff to answer the phone / you actually get me on skype 24/7 no problems at all

I mainly deal with the online admin and internet orders which are prompt and since i get so many online orders that takes up 95% of my time .

But if you would like to speak to me in person and dont have luck on the phone just PM me your telephone number and you will get a phone call in less than 5 mins flat - anyone who pms there tel number always get a phone call back .For your info i have been trading in Thailand with a registered co ltd since 1999 so relax im not going anywhere just pm your number and i will call you .Note i will proberly tell you the same thing my thai staff tell you order online and youll get delivery within 1-3 days depending on your location also if you order online i do personally now always telephone the customers to confirm the order - That would also be a easy way to get hold of me also ?

BS. There is a mobile number on the website which says English. I assume that will be your number.

Have called that number at least 15 times during business hours but phone got never answered. Have send a sms to that number, with the question if you were interested in business or not, but never received a call or message back.

Have contacted you through Skype while you were online, but didn't get a reply.Send you a message through Skype but never got replied to. Added you to my contacts on Skype at that time, while you were online, and it took 48 hours to get the request accepted.

I called the mobile number on the website that says Thai, and a lady who spoke limited English answered the phone.On my question about a networked media player, I got the very convenient answer that I could look it up on the website.

I asked her that the English speaking person should call me back, and that was how many weeks ago?

No need for contact anymore.........I got your " NUMBER"