Thais Still Using Fake Bomb Detectors

[webfact]

Thais Still Using Fake Bomb Detectors

Written by Richard S. Ehrlich

Military was warned two years ago that the devices were fake

BANGKOK: -- More than two years after being told they were fake, Thailand's military is still using bogus bomb detectors that were fraudulently sold by a discredited British company, according to the country’s Department of Special Investigation.

Thai security forces so far have bought 1,576 of the fake devices at a cost of US$30 million, investigators said, which the army currently uses against Islamist guerrillas despite a U.S. Embassy alert that the devices are "like a toy."

Asia Sentinel and other publications reported on Feb, 17, 2010, that the devices were fake. Then-Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said at the time that the devices had worked only four times in 20 field tests, a frequency even below random chance. Critics said the use of the devices could subject the users to the possibility of being blown if the operator fails to detect a nearby explosive that is detonated.

The Department of Special Investigation --Thailand's equivalent to the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation -- announced two weeks ago that the manufacturers and distributors of the useless devices fraudulently sold them to Thailand's security forces and other agencies. The DSI then sent the case to the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which set up 13 panels on July 24 to investigate the purchases. [more...]

Full story: http://www.asiasenti...4728&Itemid=392

-- Asia Sentinel 2012-08-04

[BookMan]

And further in the article..

However, Thailand's top generals continue to endorse the devices.

"Do not say the GT200 used as a bomb detector in the far south does not work," Defense Minister Sukumpol Suwanatat said in July, referring to southern Thailand where 40,000 troops are fighting Muslim separatists.

More than 5,000 people have died on all sides in the south since 2004 -- including by explosives.

"It has often detected explosives. If it can detect a bomb just once, it is worth it," Air Chief Marshal Sukumpol said

If it can detect a bomb just once it is worth it?? What about the other 20 times it fails to detect a bomb because it doesn't work?

[siampolee]

Why not send our man Chalerm to the scene?

He often proclaims to the world at large that he is privy to knowledge about a multitude of people, their motives and actions in the grey world of illegal matters that drift around Thailand and of course his own family too.

Chalerm surely in a previous incarnation must have been an ''Oracle at The temple of Delphi.

Who need the GT200 when we have Chalerm ?

[Greer]

The frequency of "detection" is below random chance (around 25% is the generally accepted figure I believe)...so basically almost anything - a piece of dead tree - would pass the Generals requirement of "detecting" a bomb just once....

[chrisinth]

To me, this is nothing more than a criminal act from the outset. For the army to even have one of these devices in operation, or in their armouries, this is endangering not only the operators but the public as well if an area is deemed clear of explosive devices through the use of one of these.

There should be a full investigation (right now, given priority) and anyone involved in the purchase of these devices investigated fully. As for the British company that provided them, words fail me.

[Soutpeel]

The frequency of "detection" is below random chance (around 25% is the generally accepted figure I believe)...so basically almost anything - a piece of dead tree - would pass the Generals requirement of "detecting" a bomb just once....

This is all about face now, hence the stupid comments by the Generals, rather than lose face admitting these things dont work, they are prepared to let their own soldier be killed. All these devices should have been recalled a long time ago.

[JeremyBowskill]

5 posts without somebody noticing in the article the words British company, A new Thai visa record for the most posts without Brit bashing and I thought it was just our crappy olympics breaking new records.

[Thai at Heart]

The frequency of "detection" is below random chance (around 25% is the generally accepted figure I believe)...so basically almost anything - a piece of dead tree - would pass the Generals requirement of "detecting" a bomb just once....

This is all about face now, hence the stupid comments by the Generals, rather than lose face admitting these things dont work, they are prepared to let their own soldier be killed. All these devices should have been recalled a long time ago.

I think 30mn USD minus commissions is a.much bigger issue with PTP in power now.

What to do if the British guy spills his guys about where he may have deposited a small gratuity as thanks. Potential dynamite.

Luckily they have a nose for issues like this instead of a bogus detector.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[givenall]

I think is because Thailand is the Hub for Fake Bomb Detectors

Edited August 4, 2012 by givenall

[Moruya]

I think is because Thailand is the Hub for Fake Bomb Detectors

I'm afraid the UK has that badge. These useless devices were sent to many countries including Iraq.

If there were ever a criminal case (I think that should be a certainty) then Thailand would be harming its chances of compensation

[Thai at Heart]

I think is because Thailand is the Hub for Fake Bomb Detectors

I'm afraid the UK has that badge. These useless devices were sent to many countries including Iraq.

If there were ever a criminal case (I think that should be a certainty) then Thailand would be harming its chances of compensation

If there is a criminal case the defendant is going to spill the brands with a list of offshore bank accounts and names as long as both our arms.

[Soupdragon]

This is all about face now, hence the stupid comments by the Generals, rather than lose face admitting these things dont work, they are prepared to let their own soldier be killed. All these devices should have been recalled a long time ago.

A few time Thais have said to me "Take my life but don't take my face". All I can think of in reply is "OK".

The idea that a whole culture is based on never being able to admit you are wrong is immature to a degree that staggers the imagination.

[canopus1969]

I think is because Thailand is the Hub for Fake Bomb Detectors

Not at all, it's the UK who is the hub of that - the simple truth is the Thai military are morons

[culicine]

The frequency of "detection" is below random chance (around 25% is the generally accepted figure I believe)...so basically almost anything - a piece of dead tree - would pass the Generals requirement of "detecting" a bomb just once....

The 25% comes from Thais traditional school multiple choice (4 choices) tests. I'd say it's closer to 50% (it's either a bomb or not a bomb) - same as doing a true / false question. You can get 50% by random chance. The machines simply do NOT work and are dangerous as such.

[jaltsc]

A new low in Saving Face. OK, you bought fake bomb detectors. Admit it. Buy accurate equipment and then decide to save lives over saving face.

[Thai at Heart]

A new low in Saving Face. OK, you bought fake bomb detectors. Admit it. Buy accurate equipment and then decide to save lives over saving face.

But what to do if the humble man on the front line doesn't trust his glorious master sitting behind his desk in Bangkok.

Oooooooh, the glorious wiff of corruption. the stench is getting worse and worse, and i have to say, forget backhanders this is only life and death.

[siampolee]

Regarding the manufacturer of these devise in the U.K The Managering Director / Owner has been questioned and I think I am correct in stating he is about to be charged if not already charged with a number of serious offences.

In my view the ideal trial for this slime ball would be to send him out into the field of conflict with his remarkable gizmo to test its effectiveness.

Trial by ordeal, all rather like the old witch trials in the past.

However i do feel as a fellow Brit we do not have the monopoly of con merchants, perhaps if the inducements to actually purchase these gizmo's came to light we might well see that there were indeed a number of greedy members of the military and no doubt the ministries concerned who were in receipt of large dollops of Palm Oil..

Takes two to tango irrespective of whatever maladministration was in power at the time of the purchase of these gizmo's.

Greed and stupidity and face overides ethics and and whatever may pass for common sense here in Thailand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT200

Edited August 4, 2012 by siampolee

[slapout]

You have a case of selling a worthless object (do not count the cost of said object). The UK has taken that to their legal system and it appears the man/company will end up in jail.

On this side of the pond, you have a expenditure of millions, for a device that has less reliability than a weggie board, and they set up 11 committes to study the situation. How many individuals, involved, of those 11 groups who bought the devices, are on the committes?

[jayboy]

A startling (to those unfamiliar with the Thai military) pot pourri of lies, incompetence, corruption, arrogance and stupidity.Needless to say from the small number who never criticise the Thai army's proven record of crime, brutality and poliitical meddling - nothing but silence.

[SuneeTH]

"When news of the fraudulent nature of the GT200 devices became public in 2010, Pornthip defended the use of the devices, even if they were proven ineffective. She noted, “I do not feel embarrassed if the bomb detector is proven ineffective. Personally, I have never handled the device myself. But my people have used it and it is accurate every time. Long long time ago, people believed that the Earth is flat and anyone who said otherwise faced execution. Things which are not visible does not necessarily mean they do not exist.”[14] As of March 2011, an official English language translation of Dr. Pornthip's autobiography, containing her side of her life story and most famous cases is currently being reviewed for publication from Singapore." WIKI

This is not a fake devise. It is scientifically proven to be 20% effective; better than none.

[Bluespunk]

The guy who made these pieces of crap was charged last month. Trial date not set yet. Cannot believe that avoiding loss of face is more important than people's lives.

[Soupdragon]

"When news of the fraudulent nature of the GT200 devices became public in 2010, Pornthip defended the use of the devices, even if they were proven ineffective. She noted, “I do not feel embarrassed if the bomb detector is proven ineffective. Personally, I have never handled the device myself. But my people have used it and it is accurate every time. Long long time ago, people believed that the Earth is flat and anyone who said otherwise faced execution. Things which are not visible does not necessarily mean they do not exist.”[14] As of March 2011, an official English language translation of Dr. Pornthip's autobiography, containing her side of her life story and most famous cases is currently being reviewed for publication from Singapore." WIKI

This is not a fake devise. It is scientifically proven to be 20% effective; better than none.

That makes it 80% ineffective. Or 80% useless. Or 80% of 30 million US$ was wasted. Or 80% of soldiers using it may be blown up. Or...........

[jonclark]

5 posts without somebody noticing in the article the words British company, A new Thai visa record for the most posts without Brit bashing and I thought it was just our crappy olympics breaking new records.

What do you mean "our crappy olympics" Show some pride in your country boy for holding a fantastic London Olympics. Brits are always so self deprecating.

[jonclark]

Lets be fair though, how many millions of baht worth of fake worthless junk do Thais sell to foreigners every year? Seems the Brits hoodwinked the Thais into buying crap for once rather than the other way around.

[Thai at Heart]

Lets be fair though, how many millions of baht worth of fake worthless junk do Thais sell to foreigners every year? Seems the Brits hoodwinked the Thais into buying crap for once rather than the other way around.

Indeed, I wonder.....

Made in ............

The irony could be delicious if it was Thailand. They would probably claim patent rights and sue back.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[siampolee]

This is not a fake devise. It is scientifically proven to be 20% effective; better than none.

That being the case SuneeTh, I and I am sure many others here would like to ask if you as an individual would indeed be willing to take the GT200 out on field trials yourself to test its 20% effectiveness

In my past experiences a 80% blast tends to be fatal much as a 20% blast is.

If you're going to gamble with human life or in this case yours specifically you've got to be on a 100% win chance.I don't think the GT200 will offer you such odds do you ?

In the event of failure the last thing you're likely to see is your anus as it slides over your nose.

Remember the Mayor of Hiroshima's famous last words?

What the hell was that bang!!!

Edited August 4, 2012 by siampolee

[BabySun]

I would like to read anything technical about this device - how it works,circuits inside,principle of operation,it is probably covered by international patents(granted?)

does anybody know - where I can find it?

The device itself should find place in Science Museum.

[Soutpeel]

Lets be fair though, how many millions of baht worth of fake worthless junk do Thais sell to foreigners every year? Seems the Brits hoodwinked the Thais into buying crap for once rather than the other way around.

Although I agree with your sentiment, how much of the worthless crap sold by Thai's to foreigners poses a direct threat to your life ?..as is the case here..the poor b*stards using these are being told these things work by the REMF's and believee what they are being told.

To me if one soldier is killed becasue of the use of this piece of cr*p then the managing director/owners of this company and the generals saying these things work shouldl be up on murder charges

Edited August 4, 2012 by Soutpeel

[philw]

Lets be fair though, how many millions of baht worth of fake worthless junk do Thais sell to foreigners every year? Seems the Brits hoodwinked the Thais into buying crap for once rather than the other way around.

Although I agree with your sentiment, how much of the worthless crap sold by Thai's to foreigners poses a direct threat to your life ?..as is the case here..the poor b*stards using these are being told these things work by the REMF's and believee what they are being told.

To me if one soldier is killed becasue of the use of this piece of cr*p then the managing director/owners of this company and the generals saying these things work shouldl be up on murder charges

Fully agree and what about all those arrested, wrongfully detained or imprisoned on the basis of false positive drug or explosive test results.

I don't think the military or "her with the weird hairdo but zero cred", would like to have those arrests properly investigated.

[animatic]

AS =

"To most people, the GT200 appears to be a glorified dowsing rod," the U.S. Embassy said,

comparing the erratic antenna to a wooden twig which people claim detects water."

What do these people think????

They are denying a 'hard and proven reality' known to the entire world,

and promulgated by at least 2 major countries officially Britain and USA.

Yet imagine they lose more face admitting that someone in procurement was conned,

than continuing to use and verbally back something proven to me a conjob, faux product,

and absolutely dangerous to those they order to use them.

Nothing more nothing less.

These people are mindless no logic capabilities that trump face loss fear...

Even the troupes on patrol know it's crap, and only use it because THEY ARE ORDERED TO!

Sorry Generals, but you have no more face to lose by admitting there was a conjob,

because not admitting it and ordering the 'boxes' to be used

has erased your face down to the shoe laces.

Edited August 4, 2012 by animatic