Political Correctness - Good Or Bad?

[chrisinth]

I would like to pose the question, Does political correctness work or does it cause more problems and resentment since it's 'modern' usage from the late 80's/early 90's?

Who dictates to the global population what should be said and what shouldn't, and how can this authority change dictionaries on a whim?

Personally I think it is a crock and does cause problems, the most common cause being able to tell what is true and what is false.

The reason I posted in The Pub is that it is not Thai specific, but I would like to hear about political correctness affecting life over here.

Cheers

C

[richard_smith237]

IMO it can create greater issues simply through avoidance - it depends on the degree of PC'ness...

Not to be mistaken with simple manners and politeness.... PC is perhaps a step too far for many.

[chrisinth]

An Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman and a Norwegian were sat in a pub............... sounds like the start of a bad joke! But we were in the pub on Saturday watching the start of the premiership. During the small talk, the subject of Rio Ferdinand being fined the equivalent of $71,000 for answering a Tweet from another user that had used the term 'Chocice' that concerned Ashley Cole (another footbal player).

This is one coloured gentleman talking about another coloured gentleman and the word Chocice was deemed racist! Chocice apparently means Black on the outside and white on the inside.

I reckon if he used the term Magnum Classic, he could have got an advertising contract for it and made money instead of losing it.

[StreetCowboy]

What do you mean by Political Correctness, then?

Do you mean refraining from calling black people black?

Do you mean referring to people as "hearing impaired"; "special needs"

Do you mean treating people equally, regardless of their colour, race and sexuality, despite your own personal antipthies?

Do you mean suppressing one's own religious fervour out of consideration for others and separating state and church, while allowing others their own freedom of faith?

You'll really need to explain what you mean by 'Political Correctness', but I suspect that most of our fellow posters will interpret it as a bandwagon on which to leap and excoriate the more liberal excesses of our own societies, while demonstrating their own prejudices

SC

[chrisinth]

As mentioned in the OP, it is sorting out fact from fiction. The source for the following examples is:

http://hereisthecity.com/2011/10/07/11-cases-of-political-correctness-gone-mad/

Here's 11 examples of political correctness gone mad.

1. The BBC has dropped the use of the terms Before Christ (BC) and Anno Domini (AD) on one of their programmes and decided that the terms 'Before Common Era' / 'Common Era' are more appropriate

2. The European Parliament introduced proposals to outlaw titles stating marital status such as 'Miss' and 'Mrs' so as not to cause offence. It also meant that 'Madame' and 'Mademoiselle', 'Frau' and 'Fraulein' and 'Senora' and 'Senorita' would be banned.

3. Throughout several US councils and organisations, any terms using the word 'man' as a prefix or suffix have been ruled as not being politically correct. 'Manhole' is now referred to as a 'utility' or 'maintenance' hole.

4. Loveable cartoon rogue Dennis the Menace has been given a politically correct make over. BBC chiefs decided to take away his edge in the remake. Gone are his bombs, catapult, water pistol and pea shooter - and in their place is a simple boyish grin.

5. Spotted Dick - a classic English dessert has been renamed to avoid embarrassment. The traditional pud Spotted Dick has been given the title Spotted Richard, after UK council bosses feared the original name might cause offence.

6. A school in Seattle renamed its Easter eggs 'spring spheres' to avoid causing offence to people who did not celebrate Easter.

7. A UK council has banned the term 'brainstorming' and replaced it with 'thought showers', as local lawmakers thought the term may offend epileptics.

8. A UK recruiter was stunned when her job advert for 'reliable' and 'hard-working' applicants was rejected by the job centre as it could be offensive to unreliable and lazy people.

9. Gillingham fans had begun to fondly offer celery to their goalkeeper, ‘Big Fat’ Jim Stannard. The club, however, decided that celery could result in health and safety issues inside the ground. As a result, fans were subjected to celery searches with the ultimate sanction for possession of celery allegedly being a life ban.’

10. In 2007, Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, were banned from saying 'Ho Ho Ho'. Their employer, the recruitment firm Westaff (that supplies hundreds of Santas across Australia), allegedly told all trainees that 'ho ho ho' could frighten children, and be derogatory to women. Why ? Because 'Ho Ho Ho' is too close to the American (not Australian, mind you) slang for prostitute.

11. Some US schools now have a 'holiday tree' every at Christmas, rather than a Christmas tree.

[Jingthing]

Ho ho ho!

Those were some absurd examples of obvious folly.

[StreetCowboy]

As mentioned in the OP, it is sorting out fact from fiction. The source for the following examples is:

http://hereisthecity...tness-gone-mad/

Here's 11 examples of political correctness gone mad.

...

So I take it, then, that you believe political correctness to be a good thing, but political correctness gone mad to be a bad thing.

A bit like the American National Rifle Association view on firearms; while politicial correctness is a good thing, and we should all be allowed to carry it, we should not tar all political correctness with the same brush because of the insane actions of a few that take it to ridiculous extremes through their own inability to see the woods for the trees.

SC

[Jingthing]

I don't see any problem with judging these things on a case by case basis. I'm sticking with my Spotted Dick, thank you very much!

[chrisinth]

What do you mean by Political Correctness, then?

Do you mean refraining from calling black people black?

Do you mean referring to people as "hearing impaired"; "special needs"

Do you mean treating people equally, regardless of their colour, race and sexuality, despite your own personal antipthies?

Do you mean suppressing one's own religious fervour out of consideration for others and separating state and church, while allowing others their own freedom of faith?

You'll really need to explain what you mean by 'Political Correctness', but I suspect that most of our fellow posters will interpret it as a bandwagon on which to leap and excoriate the more liberal excesses of our own societies, while demonstrating their own prejudices

SC

Good question SC, what is it and who decides what is right or wrong?

Looking at Wiki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness ) their definition is:

"The central uses of the term relate to particular issues of race, gender, disability, ethnicity, sexual orientation, culture and worldviews, and encompass both the language in which issues are discussed and the viewpoints that are expressed. Proponents of the view that differences in IQ test scores between blacks and whites are (primarily or largely) genetically determined state that criticism of these views is based on political correctness"

Just about covers everything really!

[StreetCowboy]

I don't see any problem with judging these things on a case by case basis. I'm sticking with my Spotted Dick, thank you very much!

I think he meant the dessert

SC

[chrisinth]

Ho ho ho!

Those were some absurd examples of obvious folly.

That is what I am saying about fact & fiction! Of course most of that is BS, but which ones are the true ones?

[chrisinth]

As mentioned in the OP, it is sorting out fact from fiction. The source for the following examples is:

http://hereisthecity...tness-gone-mad/

Here's 11 examples of political correctness gone mad.

...

So I take it, then, that you believe political correctness to be a good thing, but political correctness gone mad to be a bad thing.

A bit like the American National Rifle Association view on firearms; while politicial correctness is a good thing, and we should all be allowed to carry it, we should not tar all political correctness with the same brush because of the insane actions of a few that take it to ridiculous extremes through their own inability to see the woods for the trees.

SC

I'm dead against it. I still believe a spade is a spade, unless its a shovel

[Rsquared]

Personally, I don't like to be forced to use PC........I would rather rely on my own good manners and common sense.

The 11 examples provided by chrisinth are just scraping the surface of how ridiculous it has become in many areas.

It has taken away the "fun" of double meanings and good old fun slander...

...eg, two of our well known members who recently toured LOS, could be referred to as "the blind leading the blind".......

......"the visually impaired leading the visually handicapped"...just doesn't have the same ring to it.

I am always careful whatever company I am in because I do not want to hurt their feelings, so I use good manners and common sense, but as stated before.....I refuse to be forced into using PC.

[Berkshire]

Of course, the concept of "Political Correctness" is generally noble, i.e., not to offend certain groups. The people who complain most about "PC gone mad" are generally those who are not among the protected groups (read white males). So you have to wonder if these same people were the victim, or perceived victim, would they still be anti-PC? I wonder.

So who out there is offended by the Thai use of the word "farang?" (Talk about PC gone mad.)

[StreetCowboy]

Of course, the concept of "Political Correctness" is generally noble, i.e., not to offend certain groups. The people who complain most about "PC gone mad" are generally those who are not among the protected groups (read white males). So you have to wonder if these same people were the victim, or perceived victim, would they still be anti-PC? I wonder.

So who out there is offended by the Thai use of the word "farang?" (Talk about PC gone mad.)

Are there any things "gone mad" that you think are a good thing?

Its pretty eay to disapprove of Political Correctness gone mad, or fiscal rectitude gone mad, or social responsibility gone mad, or beautiful nymphomaniacs gone mad... though I suppose the latter depends on the specific details of the madness, though if it involves sharp kitchen implements, I think I would still disapprove...

SC

EDIT: Repetition derepetited

Edited August 20, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[StreetCowboy]

The point of my first response was that untl we know what Political Correctness is, we cannot comment on whether it is a good or a bad thing. I think there are few amongst us who would argue that PC gone mad was a good thing.

A) If "Politicial Correctnes" was defined as self-censorship to avoid offending our neighbours, then perhaps some amongst us might say it was a good thing, and some might say otherwise.

B ) If it was defined as a positive attempt to encourage tolerant and liberal thinking, equally.

C) If it was defined as an attempt to encourage tolerant and liberalthinking by influencing the way in which we expressed ourselves, then the answers might differ from those given in response to above.

Reductio ad absurbum ('going mad') may or may not be a useful debating tool in this instance. But for reductio ad aburdum, we have to start from a sane definition

SC

EDIT: typo corrected

Edited August 20, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[chrisinth]

I think this video clip (by Linuaspectrum) explains, or rather tries to explain the complexities of PC.

And the second clip (by Stephen Fry) while tongue in cheek, tells how screwed up the thought process is as to what is considered important and what isn't

[TongueThaied]

PC is terrible, and its an affront to free speech. Why did the tables turn so that the speaker is responsible for the listener's feelings? It is the perception of the listener that is the problem. No ill perception, no problem. If a Thai yells farang at me, I can choose to view it as just a value-neutral descriptive of what I look like or I can receive it as an epithet. If I choose the latter, it's my problem. Same goes for the word "nigger." If I say nigger, and somebody is offended; it's their problem. I can shout the word "nigger" all day long in an empty room and it means absolutely nothing.

However, if I walk up and pop you on the nose, you may have a broken nose; you've been physically hurt in a manner over which you may have no control; not good. How in the hell did the use of words become equated with such an act?

I'll surely be censored for the "n-word," maybe even banned for awhile.

[Traxster]

"10. In 2007, Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, were banned from saying 'Ho Ho Ho'. Their employer, the recruitment firm Westaff (that supplies hundreds of Santas across Australia), allegedly told all trainees that 'ho ho ho' could frighten children, and be derogatory to women. Why ? Because 'Ho Ho Ho' is too close to the American (not Australian, mind you) slang for prostitute."

Yes, I remember that .

It just goes to show stupid some people can be.........

Ho ho ho ...indeed !!

[tolstoy]

I find those that have a gripe against political correctness tend to be older, racist, ignorant A-holes that don't like being told that they are out of touch with the world around them.

However, I do think people take things too far. I have a friend from Jamaica and living in the US he was often called "African American", you never saw someone get so upset.

There was a nursing home facility that referred to the people that lived there as "consumers" instead of calling them patients.

I personally think that being considerate of others is very important and learning to keep up with a way of communicating that is less offensive does make for a better environment.

At the same time individuals need to lighten up also and think of the spirit of what is said and not just on the wording.

[TongueThaied]

The hell of it is, there really is no "PC gone mad." It's a continuum and it's always in the eyes of the recipient. How can the speaker possibly know in all cases whose tender sensibilities may be offended?

Somebody will eventually accuse me, as alluded to above, of taking this opportunity give vent to my bigotries by using the n-word. But it is absolutely my favorite word when it comes to discussions of PC. Sure the word has always been at least a little derogatory, but it has been reinvented in the last forty to fifty years to become what is now often described as "the single most derogatory, despicable and unacceptable word in the entire English language."

Many of Mark Twain's works have been banned because he used this word, which was a perfectly common word when Mark Twain wrote. His detractors seem to have no care that Mark Twain was a defender of the black man, against slavery and made fun of the racial hypocrisies of the day. If you read biographies (written before 1970) of the early 19th century mountain men of the Rockies, you will note that the white mountain men commonly referred to each other as "niggers."

And how can any discussion of PC in general and this word in particular, overlook mentioning the several professional careers, in both academia and politics, that have been destroyed through the innocent public use of the word "niggardly"? In one case a tenured college professor used the word niggardly in his description of the administration's stingy budget. The crowd went wild and demanded his head. An apology was demanded for his insensitivity. Being an educated man, he refused to fall to the level of his apparently illiterate detractors, and no apology was forthcoming. Even though he was tenured, there was so much public and internal pressure put on him that he was eventually driven out. There are several similar cases. Is this PC gone mad? NO! Because nobody can possibly define the line. It's all mad.

The biggest irony of all this is that the PC crowd, in a certain sense, are the most horribly bigoted group of all, but they can't see the forest for the trees and never will.

Edit: While I was writing this, I see Tolstoy has labeled me: "older, racist, ignorant A-holes that don't like being told that they are out of touch with the world around them." Well, there you go. God forbid that I should be allowed to think critically about these issues and verbalize my thoughts without being called an "old, racist ignorant asshol_e." Hmmm, is this politically correct? Discourse is shut down through the skillful use of logical fallacy instead of logic. Whose the real biggot? Tonguethaied for engaging in discussion, or Tolstoy who prefers the ad hominem attack and "poisoning the well"?

Edited August 21, 2012 by TongueThaied

[DocN]

Everything, taken to the extreme, is bad!

[CrazyKid]

PC, I try to pick my words with care. Does that count as being PC? I have a right to say pretty much anything I want, that does not make me right to say it.

Yes I am PC because I don't say half the stuff I think

[mauGR1]

I find those that have a gripe against political correctness tend to be older, racist, ignorant A-holes that don't like being told that they are out of touch with the world around them

Is That politically correct ?

[overherebc]

Chrisinth

After watching the the two clips

Does this mean I have to change my TV name ?

[chrisinth]

Chrisinth

After watching the the two clips

Does this mean I have to change my TV name ?

Certainly!! You might need two lines for your username though, as overherebeforecommonera is a bit of a mouthful.........

Still, looking at some anagrams of that:

Oho EEC barmen forevermore

each no more forevermore be

be forevermore coon harem

But be careful, that last one could be deemed un-PC and get you in the sh1t. Better to take a chance with your current TV name and hope nobody notices.............

[overherebc]

Chrisinth

After watching the the two clips

Does this mean I have to change my TV name ?

Certainly!! You might need two lines for your username though, as overherebeforecommonera is a bit of a mouthful.........

Still, looking at some anagrams of that:

Oho EEC barmen forevermore

each no more forevermore be

be forevermore coon harem

But be careful, that last one could be deemed un-PC and get you in the sh1t. Better to take a chance with your current TV name and hope nobody notices.............

Thought about "overhereforalongtime" but then realised it would upset the short time lot.

Have to ask my Ozzie mate when he gets his ball and chain off and comes overhereforabeer.

[Ron19]

I don't see any problem with judging these things on a case by case basis. I'm sticking with my Spotted Dick, thank you very much!

Have you seen a doctor yet ?

[StreetCowboy]

I don't see any problem with judging these things on a case by case basis. I'm sticking with my Spotted Dick, thank you very much!

Have you seen a doctor yet ?

Steady... It's not for us to ask who he's seeing...

[overherebc]

Would love to see a genuine survey and genuine answers on the following two questions.

Were you ever insulted by the figure that used to appear on certain jam containers ?

Were you ever insulted by the name on a certain toothpaste before they changed the "K" to an "L"